Amanda Seitz is at the CPS meeting... and is reporting that the CPS Board is seeking clarification from FCC lawyers for a legally binding contract prior to voting. The Board would not be doing this if they were planning to reject the latest offer outright. So it sounds like we might be close to a decision (assuming CPS Board can get clarification and contract from FCC):

https://twitter.com/AmandaSeitz1

 

Well, according to Amanda Seitz's twitter, CPS did reject the offer and FCC passed on the purchase of property in the West End.

 

So... Newport?

 

Please for the love of all that is good in professional soccer (which the Crew has shown us isn't much, but still...)

Let it be NEWPORT!

 

Also, Hofbrauhaus after the FC games would be on point, and hopefully demand for the bars and restaurants up Monmouth would grow, it's a nice street.

Eh, it would be cool for FC to be in West End, but they need WE more than WE needs them. I understand where CPS is coming from, setting up a dangerous precedent w/tax rates. Would 1 million a year for CPS for FC break the bank if MLS really gets rich and they sell the team for massive profits? The WE site would be the best site that's why they are pushing it so hard. My opinion, let them build it in Newport and use that county money and effort for US Bank Arena and the Convention Center. That's a win for the whole REGION. West End will get their redevelopment and CPS their tax money anyways. Better to let lay than set a bad example for future companies, IMO.

 

Also, I predict that they will end up in the WE paying the full abated 25% rate to CPS in the end. And the Port won't own the stadium in Oakley so they will need to fork it out anyways in Cincinnati. Lindner can blame Berding for 1996 for all this btw

I don’t understand FC’s hardball strategy today. Even if they got school board approval they would still have to face the negotiation of a community benefits agreement and a vote on city council. By satisfying the school board or even being generous they could give political cover to council members to support them even if they can’t come up with a community benefits agreement that makes everybody happy (which they most likely won’t be able to.)

 

Unless they need to show that this step adequately “hurts” to manage expectations for the community benefits agreement and council approval.

I don’t understand FC’s hardball strategy today. Even if they got school board approval they would still have to face the negotiation of a community benefits agreement and a vote on city council. By satisfying the school board or even being generous they could give political cover to council members to support them even if they can’t come up with a community benefits agreement that makes everybody happy (which they most likely won’t be able to.)

 

Unless they need to show that this step adequately “hurts” to manage expectations for the community benefits agreement and council approval.

 

And I don't understand the West End's hardball strategy towards FC Cincinnati.

Generally stadiums aren't good citizens of their neighborhoods, they destroy their neighborhoods with seas of parking and largely non-functional space, but in this case it seemed like FC Cincy would have gone to great lengths to integrate into the community and be a good citizen, creating a space that would be used on a daily basis by residents and FC fans alike.

 

But instead we have ~20 pages of discussion on exactly how some community leaders there shouted them out with claims of Gentrification, which may be valid, but still... at least both sides could have come to the table and talked it over. FC was willing, the key shouters were not.

 

Sometimes I like to forget how Cincy works and then crap like this reminds me....

 

 

Turns out FC's claim that they can avoid Cincinnati Public Schools in Oakley is not true.  According to Todd Portune, the only way they can completely avoid property taxes is to hand over ownership of the stadium to a non-profit entity, which they could do in the West End.  So if they aren't doing it in the West End they aren't going to do that in Oakley. 

 

Plus, Newport Public Schools gets PILOT payments for the Levee and other recent developments.  Like I said, today was just a step in the negotiations, and possibly cover for the Cranley dumpster fire. 

Adding to today's events, there was a literal dumpster fire on Odgen Place in the CBD today.

Adding to today's events, there was a literal dumpster fire on Odgen Place in the CBD today.

 

I liked the headline but how many people are left at the Enquirer that today's news seems to have overwhelmed them enough to go on about how busy it was?

 

No offense, but Cincinnati has to be one of the most conservative major cities in the country.  I am all for regionalism, but it seems like NKY blows away anything in SW Ohio in development and economic growth.  For years, NKY has taken away assets from Cincinnati, and Cincinnati finally started to do a little more to make itself attractive in recent years, but NKY looks to go after something like FC Cincinnati and any of Cincinnati's momentum.  You really should just call in FC Newport if they move.  You're not just talking about another city, you're talking about another state.  It shouldn't just matter that it is across the river, it means that once again, something is being taken away from Cincinnati into another state.  NKY certainly doesn't seem to want to work towards regionalism, and never wanted to in the first place.  Cincinnati's pathetic conservatism hurts the city.  Outside of Smale, The Banks is bland and half a success, US Bank Arena is never going to see investment, the convention center is dated and so is the convention center hotel.  The West End is somewhat new suburban/urban style housing.  It seems like some on here are overly optimistic of West End's revival.

 

Again, not meaning to be harsh.  But Cincinnati really seems to put down any opportunity it has coming its way.  People on the Cincinnati side want regionalism to work, but NKY is pushing hard to get FC Newport, and will continue to try and move opportunity across the river.

 

I hope the Crew stay in Columbus and Sacramento gets a team at this point.  Cincinnati's government can't function.

You really should just call in FC Newport if they move.  You're not just talking about another city, you're talking about another state.

 

Why does that matter? "New York" has three major league teams that play in New Jersey.

 

No one outside of this region has ever heard of Newport, Kentucky, so there is definitely not going to be a FC Newport.

 

Cincinnati's government can't function.

 

The CPS School Board has nothing to do with "Cincinnati's government."

Turns out FC's claim that they can avoid Cincinnati Public Schools in Oakley is not true.  According to Todd Portune, the only way they can completely avoid property taxes is to hand over ownership of the stadium to a non-profit entity, which they could do in the West End.  So if they aren't doing it in the West End they aren't going to do that in Oakley. 

 

Plus, Newport Public Schools gets PILOT payments for the Levee and other recent developments.  Like I said, today was just a step in the negotiations, and possibly cover for the Cranley dumpster fire. 

 

At the end of the day, if CPS wanted to maximize their tax revenue they would have been wise to take the deal. Going to Newport will be perfectly acceptable for the team and Oakley would be too. They should know that if they wanted to be a partner with the team, maximizing tax revenue was unreasonable. They should have gone for something that would have put them in the best position and a win win for both parties. They got greedy and screwed up royally. Pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered. CPS was a hog and they reap what they sow.

CPS did not like being chiseled by an Indian Hill billionaire and his tody. My guess. And, with what $600-700 million in annual revenues, its not like CPS is shaking the tin cup.

I think there will be some voters who remember the money they passed up now the next time they put a levy on the ballot.

So, this might change tomorrow...With that said, there has been no official press release by FCC saying that the, "West End site is Dead".

 

Currently, this is the only publicized statement.

 

"Tonight FC Cincinnati received a letter from the attorney for Cincinnati Public Schools. As a result, FC Cincinnati did not move ahead with the purchase of needed property for a West End stadium, property that was scheduled to close today"

 

Obviously, said property can be extended in regards to time.

 

CPS response:

 

The CPS Board scheduled an emergency meeting Wednesday afternoon and deliberated the letter in an Executive Session. CPS Superintendent Laura Mitchell, in a press briefing after the Board adjourned from its Executive Session, reiterated that Board has not made any decisions, no formal proposal has been received for the Board to deliberate, that no vote on this issue has been scheduled, and that when the Board does receive a formal proposal, it will discuss the proposal in a public session. The Board is committed to openness and transparency, and any vote the Board make take on this issue will be done in an announced public Board meeting.

 

The CPS Board will meet at 3:30 p.m. on Thursday in a previously scheduled Executive Session. The Board’s next regularly scheduled meeting is 11 a.m. on March 21.

 

Again, nothing 100% indicative that West End is dead.

 

We shall see tomorrow morning though. I imagine FCC will release an official press release stating they have moved on from the West End, and are now refocusing there efforts towards Oakley/Newport.

Yes, when you think about it it makes no sense that FCC came out today with a 5 pm deadline because they had to close on property today. Is there some other billionaire investment group that is going to snatch it out from under them?

Yes, when you think about it it makes no sense that FCC came out today with a 5 pm deadline because they had to close on property today. Is there some other billionaire investment group that is going to snatch it out from under them?

 

Could be FCC bluffing to create a false sense of urgency to speed up the process. I really don't know. I know FCC has a march deadline, and I am guessing today's efforts was to speed up this said deadline.

 

I know that the West End was FCC primary stadium site, and they have put alot of effort into acquiring this site. I don't necessarily think today's events is the end of the west end saga, but again we'll see.

 

 

 

Could be FCC bluffing to create a false sense of urgency to speed up the process. I really don't know. I know FCC has a march deadline, and I am guessing today's efforts was to speed up this said deadline.

 

 

Berding has repeated this bluff before. I recall when Oakley had to cave or the entire MLS bid was said to be lost.

 

I see this as a strategy to keep the other side (in this case CPS) from having adequate time to consider the deal and obtain input. Its why negotiators often ignore all artificial deadlines driven by others in the deal.

If the WE is actually dead then I personally hope it’s Oakley. While Newport would be acceptable especially since MLS invite matter that most. Newport will be a traffic nightmare with 70% of the game day traffic trying to cross the Big Mac. Some people might park at the banks and walk but not enough to make an impact. All the suppport groups will set up Newport. There will be not be a march across the bridge. It’s too dangerous, too long and too skinny. Most the Newport bars allow smoking. I think the tourist trap Hofbra still does inside and probably outside. But hey it’ll have a view. Oakley has problems too but really only with traffic, just like Newport will. FCC did a season ticket survey that showed all 3 sites were acceptable. They’ve stated that the majority of their season ticket holders live along 71 including large chunks in HP, Oakley, PR (me!), Montgomery, Mason and Loveland. Oakley has Mad Tree plus tons of other smoke free bars that are an easy walk to the stadium location. Molly Malone’s in PR has talked about having game day shuttle. Plus it’s in Cincinnati which people can roll their eyes at but it matters to a lot of folks. Built it Here crowd has been in this for months. Including marching with Jeff Berding from Gordos to Ham Co board of elections big project meeting last summer.

 

10 years later, what does Chester have to show for stadium project?

 

 

http://www.delcotimes.com/sports/20180304/10-years-later-what-does-chester-have-to-show-for-stadium-project

" . . . And now? Take that fanciful trip along the Delaware and you’ll find the Riverwalk, carved from an easement of the prime riverfront property, that terminates in two empty plots of land. In between, there’s a stadium that stands empty more than 300 days per year, whose only interaction with Chester is the quarter-mile stretch of Route 291 between ramps to Route 322 and Interstate 95. Parking lots have been turned into fields (that the Union exclusively use), and the club has revitalized a storage annex into a team facility (that is closed to the public). . . . "

 

But, that can't happen here because the West End or Oakley will love and support the new stadium. And, its certain to be open to the public.

 

Could be FCC bluffing to create a false sense of urgency to speed up the process. I really don't know. I know FCC has a march deadline, and I am guessing today's efforts was to speed up this said deadline.

 

 

Berding has repeated this bluff before. I recall when Oakley had to cave or the entire MLS bid was said to be lost.

 

I see this as a strategy to keep the other side (in this case CPS) from having adequate time to consider the deal and obtain input. Its why negotiators often ignore all artificial deadlines driven by others in the deal.

 

Even if the urgency isn't false, it is manufactured. All of this negotiation should have started over a year ago. It's absurd to blame CPS for passing on a deal, the terms of which were proposed ~24 hours in advance. If FCC is legitimately struggling to get things done before a deadline, rather than bluffing, the fault lies squarely on FCC for sitting on its hands and negotiating only in back rooms for a year.

All this to me is a massive bluff by FCC.

 

Seriously guys, do you think FCC is going to give up a prime development site like West End for $1 million per year?  Look at how much money people made on the NFL and NBA.  I know MLS isn't this, but if it grows in 15 years like they are saying, that stadium and team will be worth much more than the price and $1 million per year wouldn't be jack.  And FCC and CPS know for a fact that the West End site would be the most profitable by far.

 

I could be wrong but I kind of doubt it.  And seriously, good on CPS for saying no, we aren't making special exemptions on this tax rate, you can't come and say we will pay you this or that or nothing.  It is better they get nothing then set up a bad precedent.  What about all the other property tax payers in Cincinnati, will they now be allowed to pay 62.5% less?  And it's a real fear for CPS to do that then go and say "we need a new levy".

 

And I am fairly certain that they won't be able to skate taxes going to Oakley.  All Berding is doing is trying to drum up rage at CPS and pressure for them to cave in which is working great, obviously.  He is playing into the fears of everyone that CPS is dumb and makes bad decisions (maybe so on a lot of things), but people are buying it.  What they don't understand is CPS would take the money sure, but $1 million of $1 billion is like $1.00 out of $1,000.00.  It is the precedent that CPS won't cave in, and most people are too dense to understand that.  They simply look at the total $ figure and are go "How stupid are they?", just like Berding wants.

 

Lastly, they couldn't extend the purchase agreement, and didn't tell anyone about it until the day of?  And they couldn't pay a little more for the property if the price went up to them because they didn't get it on that date?  We are talking about multi-multi-multi millionaires here, $1 million bucks is like 10 bucks for Lindner

^Regarding the "drum up rage" comment, I promise you the vast majority of this city is proud of CPS for telling them to stick-it.  Let Newport subsidize a stadium.  99% of this region does not care. 

^ all these developments do not pay the retail rate on property taxes. This is not unprecedented. THis is good business which CPS has shown they are incapable of practicing.

 

You have a gift horse here and CPS says you have to pay the full freight. In 10 years when Stargell is falling down or in need of repairs it would be nice to have a brand new stadium with all the modern amenities and an additional $750k per year would come in handy.

 

The idea that they should expect $2-2.5 million from this is laughable. That NEVER happens, nor should it. It is designed to spur development in the neighborhood. Most savvy investors and developers never pay retail on the taxes because they know how to legally negotiate better deals.

 

As far as we know, that was CPS's first offer.  FC is the one that's in a hurry, giving CPS leverage.  Hopefully they agree somewhere between 750k and 2.2 million and clearly define payments after 10 years.  I support CPS on this one.  Anyone old enough to remember how the stadium sales tax played out understands. 

^ I voted on the stadium sales tax, I have no regrets. The stadium sales tax issue would not have been as bad as it was had the Bengals fielded a winning product in the early 2000s. Yes, the lease was horrific, but winning does cover the warts and if the team had won during those years, people would not have complained.

 

In this case CPS is being Greedy and they don't have leverage. Yes, WE is preferred site but it is not like there are no other options. Newport is a fine option too. Oakely in my opinion is less desirable but doable.  Point is the stadium is going to be built somewhere, why not get the most money you can out of it.  In this case $750k was the top of the line for FCC. That is a good chunk of money for CPS and the local neighborhood. It is not like there is a list of developers knocking at CPS door looking to redevelop that site and there is not anything anytime in the near future that would be developed on that site that could generate that type of tax money. So in this case, CPS has overplayed its hand. IF the stadium goes to Newport, CPS will be left with explaining to do.

  Anyone old enough to remember how the stadium sales tax played out understands. 

 

Kasich raised the state sales tax .25% and nobody cared.  Or even knows about it. 

 

All the hoopla over the Hamilton County stadium sales tax was unfounded because the new tax was offset by a property tax rollback for Hamilton County homeowners.  That rollback level has changed year-by-year depending on overall county tax receipts, but nevertheless the stadiums were largely funded by Hamilton County's poor and visitors to the county. 

 

Kasich's secret sales tax increase offset revenue lost with the elimination of the state inheritance tax.  So the poor and visitors to the state are funding inheritances. 

^ all these developments do not pay the retail rate on property taxes. This is not unprecedented. THis is good business...

 

But for whom? 

^^ For all the parties involved - The developer wins because they are able to provide a catalyst for improvement in a blighted area that would otherwise not receive as significant jolt of investment.  The School district also benefits because they now are getting much more tax money than they would get otherwise. Fighting for 100% of the value and getting zero is much worse than getting 50% of something.

 

This is the ultimate result of the negotiation process. It is designed to create a win win for everyone involved. The school district overplayed their hand and thought they had FCC by the nads which was never the case.

So our tax rate is about $60/1000 on 35% of fair market value, right? So $750,000 of tax equates to $37,500,000 fair market value, right?

You say “savvy investors and developers never pay retail on taxes” which might be true but it also contradicts the rhetoric that this time it’s different and FC is most interested in being a community partner. Yesterday’s deadline stunt contradicted it as well.

 

Like I said yesterday fully paying into the school system would have made every subsequent step in this process easier for them. You don’t have to convince every neighborhood activists (you will never please some people) but you have to put together something that city council can approve and makes them look rational to most people for supporting.

To be honest, while the stadium will cost $200 million to build, if you had to sell the facility on the open market, it would not fetch anywhere near the $200 million threshold. It would be much less. This is where CPS is completely off base here.

 

FCC is pretty much laying out upfront how much they will be committed to in taxes contractually over the next 10 years whether the project is performing or not. CPS is saying that the $200 million investment should pay taxes on that amount. It is very disingenuous and short sighted on their end. Nothing says the stadium cannot be sold for say $30, million 3 years after construction or nothing says that the team could not hire an independent appraiser and appeal the taxes down significantly after a few years when revenues come in much lower. If you want to talk about the school board getting screwed, that is what could very well happen in this case.

 

Here you have a guarantee of $750k for 10 years. If the school board wants to treat it as a retail deal the team has every right to appeal taxes down later if the market decides.

 

In this particular case, the CPS wants their cake and eat it too where they get the team to bind themselves to a property valuation that really is not consistent with the FMV of the asset (even though it cost much more to build, you could never sell it for that much). That is just bad business from FC perspective, and from the school perspective it is mal-feasance by turning down significant money and investment in the school system.

CPS also wanted full taxes paid while the stadium was under construction, which doesn't make any sense. FCC was willing to pay $750k for the 2-3 years that they weren't finished building it.

 

I think the deadline was too sudden for CPS to act, though. I don't fault them for saying no to this deal, but I do fault them for asking for the moon. They never stated what they would approve until the deadline was produced. This should have been discussed much more thoroughly - not through a series of back-and-forth statements - weeks ago.

You say savvy investors and developers never pay retail on taxes which might be true but it also contradicts the rhetoric that this time its different and FC is most interested in being a community partner. Yesterdays deadline stunt contradicted it as well.

 

Like I said yesterday fully paying into the school system would have made every subsequent step in this process easier for them. You dont have to convince every neighborhood activists (you will never please some people) but you have to put together something that city council can approve and makes them look rational to most people for supporting.

 

The school board is spinning the numbers on you. They were being greedy. Being a community partner requires 2 parties and the school board was trying to stick it to the team. Partners try and find win/win solutions. With this solution the school board was better off and FC was better off with its stadium. The school board was trying to tell FCC that we know you want the land and you need to pay us a premium for it, much more than it is truly worth on the market. This is not acting as a partner. If you want to see a partner, look at their deal with HUD. CPS got greedy and in the end got screwed.

You really should just call in FC Newport if they move.  You're not just talking about another city, you're talking about another state.

 

Why does that matter? "New York" has three major league teams that play in New Jersey.

 

No one outside of this region has ever heard of Newport, Kentucky, so there is definitely not going to be a FC Newport.

 

Cincinnati's government can't function.

 

The CPS School Board has nothing to do with "Cincinnati's government."

 

I am not talking about New York, we're talking about Cincinnati.  One of the few other cities that has teams in another state is Kansas City.  Missouri and Kansas have been going at it for years and it's hurt the region overall when it comes to cooperation and regionalism.

 

CPS may not be Cincinnati's government, but Cincinnati's government has shown in the last year they have a lot of issues to work out that are hindering growth.

You say savvy investors and developers never pay retail on taxes which might be true but it also contradicts the rhetoric that this time its different and FC is most interested in being a community partner. Yesterdays deadline stunt contradicted it as well.

 

Like I said yesterday fully paying into the school system would have made every subsequent step in this process easier for them. You dont have to convince every neighborhood activists (you will never please some people) but you have to put together something that city council can approve and makes them look rational to most people for supporting.

 

The school board is spinning the numbers on you. They were being greedy. Being a community partner requires 2 parties and the school board was trying to stick it to the team. Partners try and find win/win solutions. With this solution the school board was better off and FC was better off with its stadium. The school board was trying to tell FCC that we know you want the land and you need to pay us a premium for it, much more than it is truly worth on the market. This is not acting as a partner. If you want to see a partner, look at their deal with HUD. CPS got greedy and in the end got screwed.

 

^My question would be, and I'm not being snarky at all, but what about setting the precedent that FC Cincinnati get preferential treatment vs. any other development?

 

Lastly I'll add, and the reason I feel this is a complete bluff by FCC (I'll eat crow if I am wrong), is why the heck did they say: We have to make a decision by 5 pm today so here it is at 10 am now tell us if you take it or leave it?

 

And then, why did they put out a statement that said: "We didn't purchase the property in question", like someone else was sitting there ready to buy it or they couldn't extend it?  Then, why did they not say "We are turning our focus to Newport and Oakley"

 

I reject that CPS was being greedy, they were saying "Everyone else does it this way, you can give us the market rate, otherwise we won't make a deal with you on this". 

 

That said, they really didn't have enough time (talking CPS board) to make an informed discussion and informed counter offer.  There are so many variables that could happen that agreeing to a fixed amount could technically be really good or technically really hurt them, but principally they do not cut deals with any developer on the market tax rates of properties so why would they do it now?  I'm happy CPS stood up for what is right here.

That said, they really didn't have enough time (talking CPS board) to make an informed discussion and informed counter offer.  There are so many variables that could happen that agreeing to a fixed amount could technically be really good or technically really hurt them, but principally they do not cut deals with any developer on the market tax rates of properties so why would they do it now?  I'm happy CPS stood up for what is right here.

 

CPS is going to come back with demands like guaranteed minority contracts and the ability to sign off on design issues.  The annual payment is just one part of any agreement, and as I mentioned here previously, is irrelevant in the grand scheme of the district's gigantic budget.

 

You say savvy investors and developers never pay retail on taxes which might be true but it also contradicts the rhetoric that this time its different and FC is most interested in being a community partner. Yesterdays deadline stunt contradicted it as well.

 

Like I said yesterday fully paying into the school system would have made every subsequent step in this process easier for them. You dont have to convince every neighborhood activists (you will never please some people) but you have to put together something that city council can approve and makes them look rational to most people for supporting.

 

The school board is spinning the numbers on you. They were being greedy. Being a community partner requires 2 parties and the school board was trying to stick it to the team. Partners try and find win/win solutions. With this solution the school board was better off and FC was better off with its stadium. The school board was trying to tell FCC that we know you want the land and you need to pay us a premium for it, much more than it is truly worth on the market. This is not acting as a partner. If you want to see a partner, look at their deal with HUD. CPS got greedy and in the end got screwed.

 

^My question would be, and I'm not being snarky at all, but what about setting the precedent that FC Cincinnati get preferential treatment vs. any other development?

 

Lastly I'll add, and the reason I feel this is a complete bluff by FCC (I'll eat crow if I am wrong), is why the heck did they say: We have to make a decision by 5 pm today so here it is at 10 am now tell us if you take it or leave it?

 

And then, why did they put out a statement that said: "We didn't purchase the property in question", like someone else was sitting there ready to buy it or they couldn't extend it?  Then, why did they not say "We are turning our focus to Newport and Oakley"

 

I reject that CPS was being greedy, they were saying "Everyone else does it this way, you can give us the market rate, otherwise we won't make a deal with you on this". 

 

That said, they really didn't have enough time (talking CPS board) to make an informed discussion and informed counter offer.  There are so many variables that could happen that agreeing to a fixed amount could technically be really good or technically really hurt them, but principally they do not cut deals with any developer on the market tax rates of properties so why would they do it now?  I'm happy CPS stood up for what is right here.

 

FC is not getting treated any differently than a large developer. They are trying to negotiate a reasonable deal for everyone for a long term period.

 

Now I agree with Tasteall in the fact that FCC did not manage the timetable appropriately here by waiting until the last minute to get this worked out.

 

 

The arguments I hear from CPS is that they want the market rate because someone said the project is worth $200 million in their minds. Also, the other thing is they should pay their fair share. That argument is complete non-sense and whenever someone uses it, it shows that they have no idea what they are talking about. I would expect better from a group of educators.  Fair share is what is agreed to between the parties. In this case CPS feels anything less than 100% of what they deem the value is what they expect. IN reality, the value of the property is much less than what CPS thinks. FCC will be paying their fair share, CPS is just not realistic.

 

 

 

My point above is that $750,000 per year translates to $37,000,000 FMV. And, understanding how the Auditor values property is essential to understanding that the construction cost will be the FMV until the next revaluation. Finally, a BOR complaint as referred to above cannot be filed until 2021 and then it will fail because there will be no comparable sales and the burden is on the owner not the School Board.

 

So, the offer is only about $3,500,000 per year short.

^ Not quite. A board of revision complaint can be filed at anytime. Yes, you may only file a complaint once within a 3 year period unless you can show that there was a condition that has occurred that has harmed the value of the property.

 

I once represented and won a complaint by a Hyde Park 4 family owner who filed 2 appeals in consecutive years because the 2nd appeal alleged the property decreased In value because a tree crashed into the roof making the property uninhabitable for a number of months reducing the rental value.

 

All the team has to show is that revenues are not what was expected to reduce the property taxes and CPS will be screwed. Also, they could sell the property in a "FMV" transaction (I use that loosely) to someone else and get the prices reduced that way.

 

Point being, there are many games that can be played if the school board wants to play hardball

^^ You don't get this.

 

The BOR Complaint can only be filed when the property is revalued which it will not be until construction is complete. The purchase price of the land will be the initial valuation and that will not be challenged because it is the value per statute.

 

When the construction is done, the cost will be the value for tax purposes. And, it won't be reduced despite your experience in HP. And, the team's revenues will not matter whatsoever in the calculation of value. There are endless cases on this issue of the business value vs. the real estate value. More likely, there will be a lease by the team from an entity which will impute the value as a multiple of net rental revenues and the School Board may get even more than the cost of construction.

 

Take a look at the Hertz Center in the CBD which I think cost $44,000,000 and they are paying $825,000 per year.

^^ You don't get this.

 

The BOR Complaint can only be filed when the property is revalued which it will not be until construction is complete. The purchase price of the land will be the initial valuation and that will not be challenged because it is the value per statute.

 

When the construction is done, the cost will be the value for tax purposes. And, it won't be reduced despite your experience in HP. And, the team's revenues will not matter whatsoever in the calculation of value. There are endless cases on this issue of the business value vs. the real estate value. More likely, there will be a lease by the team from an entity which will impute the value as a multiple of net rental revenues and the School Board may get even more than the cost of construction.

 

Take a look at the Hertz Center in the CBD which I think cost $44,000,000 and they are paying $825,000 per year.

 

You've been completely wrong on your other property tax assertions.  None of the three properties I purchased in Hamilton County in the past five years reset to their purchase price. 

 

A majority of the CPS board said they would be willing to negotiate for something under the full evaluation, assuming the others weren't just using the demand for a negotiating tactic. Apparently some here think the private entity is smart to bluff but those bargaining on behalf of the taxpayer should roll over. ::)

It depends at where the leverage is and who has it.

CPS - Has land the team desires as the preferred site.

Does not need to sell the land and is happily using the land in its current operations

theoretically would not be disappointed if the sale did not happen.

 

Conversely - CPS needs revenue to build and sustain its programs. The extra $750k per year coming in can hire additional staff and provide facility maint. They will get a new stadium with additional amenities and not have to worry about the upkeep (FC will provide that). The neighborhood will continue to gentrify and bring in additional revenue over time if they cut FC a break. They are also under pressure to answer to tax payers about being responsible stewards of their assets. There is pressure on them to make a deal for this reason.

 

FCCincy - While they prefer the site, they have other options in the area

They are going to build it somewhere in the city regardless of the CPS and this is CPS option to be a partner.

This option would be the most expensive for FCC even though it is preferred (they will save money going to other places)

 

Conversely - They want WE and are willing ot pay more for it. The ownership has an aversion to NKY and wants to be in Ohio and it is the best site available. FCC is trying to purchase a site that is not for sale and from a party that does not need to sell it, so CPS has the ability to better name the terms.

 

Both parties have their strengths in the negotiation, but in the end, I feel FCC has a stronger position as CPS ultimately needs to answer to the taxpayer about why they turned down a solid revenue stream.

 

 

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/education/2018/03/15/fc-cincinnati-there-any-glimmer-hope-stadium-west-end/428513002/

 

Looks like it may not be dead, yet. I still believe yesterday was a full fledged bluff.

^^ You don't get this.

 

The BOR Complaint can only be filed when the property is revalued which it will not be until construction is complete. The purchase price of the land will be the initial valuation and that will not be challenged because it is the value per statute.

 

When the construction is done, the cost will be the value for tax purposes. And, it won't be reduced despite your experience in HP. And, the team's revenues will not matter whatsoever in the calculation of value. There are endless cases on this issue of the business value vs. the real estate value. More likely, there will be a lease by the team from an entity which will impute the value as a multiple of net rental revenues and the School Board may get even more than the cost of construction.

 

Take a look at the Hertz Center in the CBD which I think cost $44,000,000 and they are paying $825,000 per year.

 

You've been completely wrong on your other property tax assertions.  None of the three properties I purchased in Hamilton County in the past five years reset to their purchase price. 

 

 

Jake, I have been trying to teach you this stuff for over a year.

 

First, the Klotter property you bought from your dad and "reported" the sale as $0 on your Conveyance fee statement so you didn't have to pay the fee.

 

So, it didn't revalue to the purchase price.

 

The Bauer properties were purchased in 2017 and the tax bill you got in January was for the first half of 2017 so those haven't been revalued yet either.

 

So just stay out of stuff you don't understand.

So just stay out of stuff you don't understand.

 

You swore up and down that everybody's property was going to reset to recent sale prices, no exceptions.  But there obviously are exceptions.  Which is why your stadium commentary doesn't have any credibility. 

 

 

 

I meant people who did not file false tax returns with the Ohio Department of Taxation.

 

My mistake.

It appears that cps will vote on fcc offer on Wednesday March 21st. They will also send a letter Friday to fcc with a revised offer and fcc will have till Monday to accept.

 

Letter sent out by cps

https://mobile.twitter.com/nswartsell/status/974403304846512128/photo/1

So just stay out of stuff you don't understand.

 

You swore up and down that everybody's property was going to reset to recent sale prices, no exceptions.  But there obviously are exceptions.  Which is why your stadium commentary doesn't have any credibility. 

 

 

Jake in theory he is right, however, Hamilton county is sometimes a bit slow to re-value upon a sale and they do not always do it in the tax year. THis does not mean that they are not supposed to do so under the law

Cincinnati school board to take FC Cincinnati vote next week

 

The Cincinnati Public Schools Board of Education will vote March 21 on a resolution about FC Cincinnati's proposed West End stadium, the district announced Thursday.

 

The board held an executive session on Thursday to discuss the situation. It plans to release a copy of the resolution by Friday.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/03/15/cincinnati-school-board-to-take-fc-cincinnati-vote.html