Council members balk at break for company trying to move out of FC Cincinnati stadium site

 

Cincinnati City Council members objected Monday to selling for $1 a piece of city-owned land in Lower Price Hill so that Tri-State Wholesale Building Supplies can move from the site of FC Cincinnati’s planned stadium and build a new headquarters.

 

In addition to the land sale, the city proposed abating $1.4 million in property taxes for the $6.1 million headquarters project, which would go on the former Queen City Barrel site. That Evans Street location is now known as MetroWest Commerce Park, a brownfield the city largely has cleaned up to enable its reuse.

 

Councilman Chris Seelbach said the company is going to be paid $25 million by FC Cincinnati for its current location at 1550 Central Ave., and the city should sell the MetroWest land at fair market value, which is approximately $176,000. Tri-State Wholesale Building Supplies also will spend nearly $690,000 on environmental controls and cleanup, which the city administration argued made the land giveaway worth it. The Hamilton County auditor has assessed the 1550 Central Ave. property at nearly $3 million.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/09/18/council-members-balk-at-break-for-company-trying.html

I believe that the Tri-State Wholesale property includes the large grass field shown here:

https://www.google.com/maps/search/cincinnati+ballet/@39.1122503,-84.5220085,285m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

So if the land critical to the stadium site plan is part of the deal, then the sky-high $25 million price makes a bit more sense.  But I am still shocked by the figure, and it is far more than is necessary to build a replacement 100,000 sq foot light industrial building.  Such a building can easily be built for $5 million or far less, and a circa-1980s warehouse of that type can be purchased for around $3 million. 

 

 

 

This is interesting. the MLS is not a true ML Sport.  Last year In 2017, the average regular season home attendance of the Cincinnati Reds was 22,677. And this year 2018 the average FC Cincinnati attendance is over 25,000. and they play their matches on a rented field.

 

If you don't want to live across the street from a soccer stadium, maybe you shouldn't purchase a home there. Buy yourself a home in westchester or loveland.

 

 

Maybe the reason Cincinnati is not on the national scene is that it has stagnant growth. Atlanta, Tampa, Austin, Charlotte, Raleigh, and Phoneix are just a few of the places people are moving. AC, small amount of snow, short winters, long summers.

 

 

In order to make cincy viable again, maybe you need to tear down a few old buildings and bring major leagues sports to town.

 

 

MLS has higher attendance numbers than NBA and NHL so I don't know what you mean by not major league.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/207458/per-game-attendance-of-major-us-sports-leagues/

 

I appreciate the sentiment, but this is misleading. MLS attendance is higher than the NBA and NHL, but that's mostly due to the restrictions of hockey rinks and basketball courts - if it were practical to build 35k seat NHL/NBA arenas, they would certainly exist. Additionally, there is the issue of ticket prices. The average MLS ticket is ~$40, while the NHL and NBA are at least double that in most cases.

 

There's also TV ratings. MLS ratings are awful. Like 250k per match awful. That's worse than just about everything else broadcast by ESPN. If MLS and USMNT matches weren't sold as a bundle, the matches would be shown on CBS Sports Net or maybe even broadcast over YouTube.

I believe that the Tri-State Wholesale property includes the large grass field shown here:

https://www.google.com/maps/search/cincinnati+ballet/@39.1122503,-84.5220085,285m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

So if the land critical to the stadium site plan is part of the deal, then the sky-high $25 million price makes a bit more sense.  But I am still shocked by the figure, and it is far more than is necessary to build a replacement 100,000 sq foot light industrial building.  Such a building can easily be built for $5 million or far less, and a circa-1980s warehouse of that type can be purchased for around $3 million.

 

location, location, location hope im not too abrasive.

 

This is interesting. the MLS is not a true ML Sport.  Last year In 2017, the average regular season home attendance of the Cincinnati Reds was 22,677. And this year 2018 the average FC Cincinnati attendance is over 25,000. and they play their matches on a rented field.

 

If you don't want to live across the street from a soccer stadium, maybe you shouldn't purchase a home there. Buy yourself a home in westchester or loveland.

 

 

Maybe the reason Cincinnati is not on the national scene is that it has stagnant growth. Atlanta, Tampa, Austin, Charlotte, Raleigh, and Phoneix are just a few of the places people are moving. AC, small amount of snow, short winters, long summers.

 

 

In order to make cincy viable again, maybe you need to tear down a few old buildings and bring major leagues sports to town.

 

 

MLS has higher attendance numbers than NBA and NHL so I don't know what you mean by not major league.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/207458/per-game-attendance-of-major-us-sports-leagues/

 

I appreciate the sentiment, but this is misleading. MLS attendance is higher than the NBA and NHL, but that's mostly due to the restrictions of hockey rinks and basketball courts - if it were practical to build 35k seat NHL/NBA arenas, they would certainly exist. Additionally, there is the issue of ticket prices. The average MLS ticket is ~$40, while the NHL and NBA are at least double that in most cases.

 

There's also TV ratings. MLS ratings are awful. Like 250k per match awful. That's worse than just about everything else broadcast by ESPN. If MLS and USMNT matches weren't sold as a bundle, the matches would be shown on CBS Sports Net or maybe even broadcast over YouTube.

 

 

so what you are saying is that Syracuse should not play basketball in their covered arena and the ncaa tourament should not have been played in Pheonix. others disagree. Just because it cost much less to attend a MLS match doesnt make it any less exciting. I will enjoy more nights out at $40 than than I would at $80, and so will many other families. I have enjoyed two years of soccer on local tv and hope it continues.

This is interesting. the MLS is not a true ML Sport.  Last year In 2017, the average regular season home attendance of the Cincinnati Reds was 22,677. And this year 2018 the average FC Cincinnati attendance is over 25,000. and they play their matches on a rented field.

 

If you don't want to live across the street from a soccer stadium, maybe you shouldn't purchase a home there. Buy yourself a home in westchester or loveland.

 

 

Maybe the reason Cincinnati is not on the national scene is that it has stagnant growth. Atlanta, Tampa, Austin, Charlotte, Raleigh, and Phoneix are just a few of the places people are moving. AC, small amount of snow, short winters, long summers.

 

 

In order to make cincy viable again, maybe you need to tear down a few old buildings and bring major leagues sports to town.

 

 

MLS has higher attendance numbers than NBA and NHL so I don't know what you mean by not major league.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/207458/per-game-attendance-of-major-us-sports-leagues/

 

I appreciate the sentiment, but this is misleading. MLS attendance is higher than the NBA and NHL, but that's mostly due to the restrictions of hockey rinks and basketball courts - if it were practical to build 35k seat NHL/NBA arenas, they would certainly exist. Additionally, there is the issue of ticket prices. The average MLS ticket is ~$40, while the NHL and NBA are at least double that in most cases.

 

There's also TV ratings. MLS ratings are awful. Like 250k per match awful. That's worse than just about everything else broadcast by ESPN. If MLS and USMNT matches weren't sold as a bundle, the matches would be shown on CBS Sports Net or maybe even broadcast over YouTube.

 

 

so what you are saying is that Syracuse should not play basketball in their covered arena and the ncaa tourament should not have been played in Pheonix. others disagree. Just because it cost much less to attend a MLS match doesnt make it any less exciting. I will enjoy more nights out at $40 than than I would at $80, and so will many other families. I have enjoyed two years of soccer on local tv and hope it continues.

 

Obviously, I was talking about purpose-built basketball and hockey arenas. The Carrier Dome, U. of Phoenix Stadium, Lucas Oil Stadium, etc. are football stadiums that have a basketball configuration; they are not optimized for basketball or hockey, unlike most modern arenas.

 

The level of excitement one may or may not experience is completely irrelevant.

This is interesting. the MLS is not a true ML Sport.  Last year In 2017, the average regular season home attendance of the Cincinnati Reds was 22,677. And this year 2018 the average FC Cincinnati attendance is over 25,000. and they play their matches on a rented field.

 

If you don't want to live across the street from a soccer stadium, maybe you shouldn't purchase a home there. Buy yourself a home in westchester or loveland.

 

 

Maybe the reason Cincinnati is not on the national scene is that it has stagnant growth. Atlanta, Tampa, Austin, Charlotte, Raleigh, and Phoneix are just a few of the places people are moving. AC, small amount of snow, short winters, long summers.

 

 

In order to make cincy viable again, maybe you need to tear down a few old buildings and bring major leagues sports to town.

 

 

MLS has higher attendance numbers than NBA and NHL so I don't know what you mean by not major league.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/207458/per-game-attendance-of-major-us-sports-leagues/

 

I appreciate the sentiment, but this is misleading. MLS attendance is higher than the NBA and NHL, but that's mostly due to the restrictions of hockey rinks and basketball courts - if it were practical to build 35k seat NHL/NBA arenas, they would certainly exist. Additionally, there is the issue of ticket prices. The average MLS ticket is ~$40, while the NHL and NBA are at least double that in most cases.

 

There's also TV ratings. MLS ratings are awful. Like 250k per match awful. That's worse than just about everything else broadcast by ESPN. If MLS and USMNT matches weren't sold as a bundle, the matches would be shown on CBS Sports Net or maybe even broadcast over YouTube.

 

MLS ratings are obviously well below the other major sports but MLS ratings are growing and have been. The average TV ratings:

2018: 316K (so far)

2017: 258K

2016: 248K

2015: 229K

2014: 200K

2013: 185K

2012: 164K

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer_on_television#MLS_Cable_Viewership_Average

on the contrary, I have suggested a number of improvements to many threads. Like tear down old useless buildings. And, build beautiful new ones. you seem to just like to argue. thats okay we all have opinions. you see this is how it works, you make a statement about what you think and then someone else gets to say what they think. what a concept. You seem to think that if i disagree with what you think, that is somehow useless. I just see you as uninformed. 

 

 

Maybe the reason Cincinnati is not on the national scene is that it has stagnant growth. Atlanta, Tampa, Austin, Charlotte, Raleigh, and Phoneix are just a few of the places people are moving. AC, small amount of snow, short winters, long summers.

 

 

The first one is part of the reason why Cincinnati is not known on the national scene.  Its supposedly useless old buildings are extrodinary in terms of most american cities, to the point that people would actually have a desire to visit Cincinnati if they knew about them and if more locals gave a darn about them...

Mercy Health will buy the naming rights for FCC's new training complex in Milford.

 

 

on the contrary, I have suggested a number of improvements to many threads. Like tear down old useless buildings. And, build beautiful new ones. you seem to just like to argue. thats okay we all have opinions. you see this is how it works, you make a statement about what you think and then someone else gets to say what they think. what a concept. You seem to think that if i disagree with what you think, that is somehow useless. I just see you as uninformed. 

 

 

Maybe the reason Cincinnati is not on the national scene is that it has stagnant growth. Atlanta, Tampa, Austin, Charlotte, Raleigh, and Phoneix are just a few of the places people are moving. AC, small amount of snow, short winters, long summers.

 

 

The first one is part of the reason why Cincinnati is not known on the national scene.  Its supposedly useless old buildings are extrodinary in terms of most american cities, to the point that people would actually have a desire to visit Cincinnati if they knew about them and if more locals gave a darn about them...

 

 

 

OTR is a lovely place and will continue to get better. It is an investment in the future. When an entire area of the city has been neglected by city government, county government, exodus to the suburbs and overall neglect, buildings become useless because they cost too much to bring up to code, replace and entice people to develop the area. The city was smart to spend the money on the trolley system because it brought attention to OTR. Now we are building a new MLS stadium and developing adjacent areas. The stadium is also an investment for the future. My guess is more people will discover OTR because of the MLS and the streetcar system than any ad campaign. Kids will remember the ride on the streetcar attending a soccer match walking thru the "old town". They will become adults and many will consider moving to the city because of their positive memories. The Art Academy, School for Performing Arts, the Shakespeare theatre, the CSO, Washington Park and Findley Market are all parts of the bigger whole. All of these developments announce to the general public that OTR is a place to visit or be.

 

 

And when you tear down those "useless" buildings, what "there" is left?

 

I lived in one of those "useless" building on Race Street just south of 15th. It was partially collapsed and my unit (on the top floor) had no roof. It wasn't economical for a private developer to bring back to life alone which is why 3CDC stepped in. The story is the same for 20 of the 21 buildings on the block. Only one was still occupiable 10 years ago. Now all 21 are, including Taft's Ale House.

 

If all these "useless" old buildings were torn down, what would have been left? Nothing of any importance or impact. You'd look north from Washington Park at a whole lot of nothing.

 

That's why it's important to save what is left, even if it's not necessarily economical to do so.

on the contrary, I have suggested a number of improvements to many threads. Like tear down old useless buildings. And, build beautiful new ones. you seem to just like to argue. thats okay we all have opinions. you see this is how it works, you make a statement about what you think and then someone else gets to say what they think. what a concept. You seem to think that if i disagree with what you think, that is somehow useless. I just see you as uninformed. 

 

 

Maybe the reason Cincinnati is not on the national scene is that it has stagnant growth. Atlanta, Tampa, Austin, Charlotte, Raleigh, and Phoneix are just a few of the places people are moving. AC, small amount of snow, short winters, long summers.

 

 

The first one is part of the reason why Cincinnati is not known on the national scene.  Its supposedly useless old buildings are extrodinary in terms of most american cities, to the point that people would actually have a desire to visit Cincinnati if they knew about them and if more locals gave a darn about them...

 

 

 

OTR is a lovely place and will continue to get better. It is an investment in the future. When an entire area of the city has been neglected by city government, county government, exodus to the suburbs and overall neglect, buildings become useless because they cost too much to bring up to code, replace and entice people to develop the area. The city was smart to spend the money on the trolley system because it brought attention to OTR. Now we are building a new MLS stadium and developing adjacent areas. The stadium is also an investment for the future. My guess is more people will discover OTR because of the MLS and the streetcar system than any ad campaign. Kids will remember the ride on the streetcar attending a soccer match walking thru the "old town". They will become adults and many will consider moving to the city because of their positive memories. The Art Academy, School for Performing Arts, the Shakespeare theatre, the CSO, Washington Park and Findley Market are all parts of the bigger whole. All of these developments announce to the general public that OTR is a place to visit or be.

 

 

It took a herculean effort to get people like you to accept OTR for what it is.  The thing is that while OTR is by far the most impressive of an impressive collection of historic neighborhoods that Cincinnati has, there are other neighborhoods that have just as much potential value as OTR does particularly when packaged as a whole.  To explain, think of this on an advertising bilboard - "See Cincinnati one of America's most historic cities!" (its a phrase you almost never hear even though its true - and what could catalyze that is you know taking care of a few more of these "useless old buildings" and turning them into what OTR has been turned into, which I don't know if you remember was also considered useless by much of the city up until about 2010ish).

wormy little people take credit for things they had nothing to do with. guess what, i was thinking about otr long before you were a twinkle. your herculean effort was to what? type and rant about someone who disagreed with you. I may be wrong but none of your posts affected anyone. the biggest problem with cincinnati is that there is really nothing truly historically important here, well maybe the mill creek, a bridge and a few railroad tressels. cities and towns along the atlantic may have historical importance, Santa Fe may, San Francisco, San Antonio, St. Louis, and Chicago too. Champagne tastes, drunk from an I heart Cincy mug. im sure you are well traveled and have a scrapbook of all the places you've been. cincinnatians saying cincinnati is great means nothing. You need people from NYC, Chicago, LA etc. to say don't miss cincy its the place to be.

 

the fact remains that old buildings are torn down because no one has an interest in keeping them around. oh and bm   

^ TLDR: Boston may be historic.

 

Cincinnati could really use having melted-down suburbs and crummy suburban-style areas in the city limits like most other Ohio (and many American) cities have. As it stands right now with all of these gold plated suburbs surrounding Cincinnati, the Average Joe and Jane think that only the city has potential to be crappy and don't appreciate it. Without the lessons of abandoned and stalled sprawl seen only at Swifton Commons, Forest Fair and a few other tiny pockets it's no wonder that Mason and Florence are worshiped. In other cities projects analogue to The Banks and the Uptown megablocks don't take 15-20 years to fill out... which also bolsters the core and inner ring's reputations. Their suburbanites are much more open-minded.

wormy little people take credit for things they had nothing to do with. guess what, i was thinking about otr long before you were a twinkle. your herculean effort was to what? type and rant about someone who disagreed with you. I may be wrong but none of your posts affected anyone. the biggest problem with cincinnati is that there is really nothing truly historically important here, well maybe the mill creek, a bridge and a few railroad tressels. cities and towns along the atlantic may have historical importance, Santa Fe may, San Francisco, San Antonio, St. Louis, and Chicago too. Champagne tastes, drunk from an I heart Cincy mug. im sure you are well traveled and have a scrapbook of all the places you've been. cincinnatians saying cincinnati is great means nothing. You need people from NYC, Chicago, LA etc. to say don't miss cincy its the place to be.

 

the fact remains that old buildings are torn down because no one has an interest in keeping them around. oh and bm   

 

How exactly is St. Louis historic but not Cincinnati?  With your attitude I'm not even sure why you're on this message board. 

Cincinnati could really use having melted-down suburbs and crummy suburban-style areas in the city limits like most other Ohio (and many American) cities have. As it stands right now with all of these gold plated suburbs surrounding Cincinnati, the Average Joe and Jane think that only the city has potential to be crappy and don't appreciate it. Without the lessons of abandoned and stalled sprawl seen only at Swifton Commons, Forest Fair and a few other tiny pockets it's no wonder that Mason and Florence are worshiped. In other cities projects analogue to The Banks and the Uptown megablocks don't take 15-20 years to fill out... which also bolsters the core and inner ring's reputations. Their suburbanites are much more open-minded.

 

I always hear people from Florence saying how much they love Florence, but I just don't get it. I spent some of my time there during summer as a kid and I hated it then. I still think it has zero appeal. If you love it, good on ya, but I just don't understand it.

  cincinnatians saying cincinnati is great means nothing. You need people from NYC, Chicago, LA etc. to say don't miss cincy its the place to be.

 

 

Oh you mean like this?

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/07/travel/cincinnati-art-52-places.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/08/17/travel/what-to-do-36-hours-in-cincinnati-ohio.html

 

https://www.travelandleisure.com/trip-ideas/best-places-to-travel-in-2017#union-terminal-cincinnati-ohio

 

 

 

Yeah, I live in NYC now and a ton of people go, "oh I heard it's cool there" or "I heard it's becoming a thing" or something along those lines. Not everyone, but a surprising amount have heard exclusively good things about Cincy if they've heard anything about it. A surprising amount also don't know that Ohio has a bad reputation and have no negative opinions of the state or their visits there. Ohio and its cities are shedding their bad reputations, especially among younger people who are getting priced out of other places.

 

I met quite a few former NYC or LA or SF residents who moved to OTR or Downtown specifically because they either visited once, had family in town, knew friends who were there, etc. because the entry cost of owning property or starting a business was so much more reasonable. It's not some unknown backwater. It definitely has a ton of room for improvement on a national scale, but it's getting there.

Every city has its disaffected persons. They visited once and had a bad time, they lived there and didn't make friends, they couldn't find a good job, etc. But, Cincinnati, like most every other city has lots of folks (like me) that could not be happier or more satisfied with living here. It has more to do with the whiner or complainer, than it does the city in question. And, that is true whether it is Cincinnati being disparaged or any other city. I could expound the virtues of Cincinnati in general or OTR in particular, but persons who are disaffected, chronic malcontents will not be swayed.

Ohio and its cities are shedding their bad reputations, especially among younger people who are getting priced out of other places.

 

This is so incredibly true. When I first went off to University circa 2007, everyone who hailed from the Cincinnati or Columbus suburbs would identify themselves by their particular township, hamlet, or city. "Oh, hi, I'm from Fairfield, Ohio! That's about 20 minutes north of Cincinnati." Meanwhile, everyone from Pittsburgh and Cleveland, no matter where particularly in the region, would state: "From Pittsburgh," or, "From Cleveland." Both of those cities were quick to the trend of rebuilding their identities (often helped by successful sports teams getting attention as well as ambitious projects in their urban cores). In the ensuing years, I noticed similar things happening to Cincinnati and Columbus.

 

There was a time where we'd go to Neon's Unplugged (now Rosedale) and be the only ones playing bocce or catching a drink. Then a few years later, you couldn't get in on a Friday or Saturday night.

 

The point is: I don't think it's just young people from other cities who are coming here and getting priced out of other places (although that's certainly happening), but you have "locals" that have grown up in a bland suburban wasteland that now see the potential the city has to offer and there's demand for more living space, things to do, and entertainment. So the urban core, and by some extent certain outer neighborhoods, are growing like crazy.

 

In terms of historic buildings, these are essential to creating the right type of sustainable environment. You can't knock them all down and replace them with cheap, suburban crap. Look at all the half-empty strip malls in West Chester. There's going to be times where some structures are too far gone, there's going to be times where some structures can be replaced by something more useful, but we should do everything in our power to preserve what we do have. It sets this city apart, it creates a unique environment, it helps build livable, walkable, space.

 

There's a certain poster here who has a very interesting attitude towards historic buildings, that kind of 1970s Cincinnati thinking is what get a potentially reusable building like The Dennison Hotel turned in to an astroturf dog park. No, thanks.

 

We can and must do better. Now that Cincinnati is "trendy" again, we don't need to go back to the "good ol' Pete Rose Pearl Clutching attitude."

 

As for FC Cincinnati - I'm a fan, a season ticket holder. I had no issues with Newport, hated the Oakley idea, but thought the West End offered the best potential. I'm hopeful the club sees value in being a part of, not redefining, the urban space there. OTR on a Friday night doesn't seem too terribly different from a college bar street at times, but what sets it apart is the multitude of spaces and structures that allow other uses. It can be enjoyed as much more than simply a night out. Hopefully FCC does right by the community and recognizes that.

Its natural to identify more locally where you are from when you do not go far to school because you assume people know the area because they are there.

 

When I was in Cleveland at school, the Clevelanders would identify themselves as being from Solon, Westlake, Bay Village, Hudson, etc.

 

I think it is natural no matter where you are from

Its natural to identify more locally where you are from when you do not go far to school because you assume people know the area because they are there.

 

When I was in Cleveland at school, the Clevelanders would identify themselves as being from Solon, Westlake, Bay Village, Hudson, etc.

 

I think it is natural no matter where you are from

 

No doubt. I do believe, though, that as this city (and others) reputations have grown (whether that's from notable events, sports team success, or a booming entertainment district) and these people have experienced it for themselves, they start to identify with the greater region.

 

FCC is a perfect example. On any match day, there's thousands of people waving Cincinnati City flags or wit the flag on their shirts. Most of them probably don't reside in, come from, or hail from within the city limits.

 

CinyShirts too - yeah, there's some hyper-local, area specific shirts in there, but they do a booming business selling "Cincinnati" on their products even out in Mason and Loveland.

wormy little people take credit for things they had nothing to do with. guess what, i was thinking about otr long before you were a twinkle. your herculean effort was to what? type and rant about someone who disagreed with you. I may be wrong but none of your posts affected anyone. the biggest problem with cincinnati is that there is really nothing truly historically important here, well maybe the mill creek, a bridge and a few railroad tressels. cities and towns along the atlantic may have historical importance, Santa Fe may, San Francisco, San Antonio, St. Louis, and Chicago too. Champagne tastes, drunk from an I heart Cincy mug. im sure you are well traveled and have a scrapbook of all the places you've been. cincinnatians saying cincinnati is great means nothing. You need people from NYC, Chicago, LA etc. to say don't miss cincy its the place to be.

 

the fact remains that old buildings are torn down because no one has an interest in keeping them around. oh and bm   

 

Cincinnati is one small region in a globally connected world that increasingly is full of losers and winners.  Cincinnati is coasting, but in order to be a winner particularly in the economy we have now you need to be accepted into their club.

 

St Louis is as historic as Cincinnati is, both were at one point the largest city in the Midwest and are significantly older than most other Midwestern cities (like Chicago Milwaukee etc).  In 1870 Cincy, Chicago and STL were equals in terms of importance and what kind of galls me is that STL and Chicago own that history* and are proud of it, Cincinnati loves to bury it.  The more I read about Cincinnati's history the more it comes into focus that this is what's happened (and even from my horrifically alien non native grew up closer to Dayton perspective it was obvious to me that Cincinnati had a deep history and was very important at one point just because of how architecturally different it is than  any other city around it - you don't have neighborhood after neighborhood of brick row-houses and tenements in most Midwestern cities - these are only found in cities that are historically important). Your post btw proves that out - its a huge cultural problem IMO and holds Cincinnati back from really embracing what makes it unique and what could make it more than just a city that's coasting btw.

 

Though I have a weird feeling that mediocrity is comfortable to a lot of people so why not strive for excellence when you could just do what you are comfortable with even if said thing isn't good for you in the long run?

 

(*and yes STL is really bad at preservation, but it has much deeper structural regional economic problems than Cincinnati does and I only bring up that STL owns it due to my experiences in the city, they do a lot more outreach to other places and generally talk more about their history on a whole than Cincinnatians do- Cincy's prevaling culture devalues things that makes it unique and values the things every other city has usually - like being proud of the bengals, but not a neighborhood full of old rowhouses not found anywhere else in the midwest except maybe STL...)./

it was the best of times. it was the worst of times. malcontents and disagreers listen up. we don't want your stinking opinions on this blog. you dirt lot bloggers, you mastaba dreamers you are not welcome in our town. any deviation from the norm will only be used against you. We are the great and power ooze. we speak only red brick truth. we stand behind our facades. down with the devils, down with the opposition. stand and take up the flag of freedom. follow the drinking gourd over the river to the promised land of Cannan. where we are free to speak our truth and all the others be damned.

^ Cute. Why are you on this forum? Do you care about urban development? It's obvious you don't give a damn about preservation. Are you here to troll, or do you intend to start making meaningful contributions to the discussion?

it was the best of times. it was the worst of times. malcontents and disagreers listen up. we don't want your stinking opinions on this blog. you dirt lot bloggers, you mastaba dreamers you are not welcome in our town. any deviation from the norm will only be used against you. We are the great and power ooze. we speak only red brick truth. we stand behind our facades. down with the devils, down with the opposition. stand and take up the flag of freedom. follow the drinking gourd over the river to the promised land of Cannan. where we are free to speak our truth and all the others be damned.

[/qu

it was the best of times. it was the worst of times. malcontents and disagreers listen up. we don't want your stinking opinions on this blog. you dirt lot bloggers, you mastaba dreamers you are not welcome in our town. any deviation from the norm will only be used against you. We are the great and power ooze. we speak only red brick truth. we stand behind our facades. down with the devils, down with the opposition. stand and take up the flag of freedom. follow the drinking gourd over the river to the promised land of Cannan. where we are free to speak our truth and all the others be damned.

 

 

 

Alrighty then, show me on this map where Cincinnati hurt you?

This is interesting. the MLS is not a true ML Sport.  Last year In 2017, the average regular season home attendance of the Cincinnati Reds was 22,677. And this year 2018 the average FC Cincinnati attendance is over 25,000. and they play their matches on a rented field.

 

If you don't want to live across the street from a soccer stadium, maybe you shouldn't purchase a home there. Buy yourself a home in westchester or loveland.

 

 

Maybe the reason Cincinnati is not on the national scene is that it has stagnant growth. Atlanta, Tampa, Austin, Charlotte, Raleigh, and Phoneix are just a few of the places people are moving. AC, small amount of snow, short winters, long summers.

 

 

In order to make cincy viable again, maybe you need to tear down a few old buildings and bring major leagues sports to town.

 

 

MLS has higher attendance numbers than NBA and NHL so I don't know what you mean by not major league.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/207458/per-game-attendance-of-major-us-sports-leagues/

 

I appreciate the sentiment, but this is misleading. MLS attendance is higher than the NBA and NHL, but that's mostly due to the restrictions of hockey rinks and basketball courts - if it were practical to build 35k seat NHL/NBA arenas, they would certainly exist. Additionally, there is the issue of ticket prices. The average MLS ticket is ~$40, while the NHL and NBA are at least double that in most cases.

 

There's also TV ratings. MLS ratings are awful. Like 250k per match awful. That's worse than just about everything else broadcast by ESPN. If MLS and USMNT matches weren't sold as a bundle, the matches would be shown on CBS Sports Net or maybe even broadcast over YouTube.

 

MLS ratings are obviously well below the other major sports but MLS ratings are growing and have been. The average TV ratings:

2018: 316K (so far)

2017: 258K

2016: 248K

2015: 229K

2014: 200K

2013: 185K

2012: 164K

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer_on_television#MLS_Cable_Viewership_Average

 

Excellent. Maybe by 2035 it will finally surpass college softball.

 

MLS faces a unique problem that the other major American sports do not: competition. MLS' ratings problem will likely not significantly change unless it becomes a league that rivals the big Euro leagues in talent.

watched just a little of this (the last 8 minutes or so) and it seemed to be right up this groups alley.  There are several additional airings  on PBS ohio 14 including one today if im not mistaken:

 

Trashing History

Friday, September 21, 10:48 pm on 14 HD

Duration: 0:10:57

Description: An intern attempts to save two multi-ton metal relics from the Cold War from the scrap yard.

[HD][CC]

View Additional Airings

Broadcast In: English

Website: http://www.provenanceproductions.com

 

When you disagree with someone's comments, instead of throw your tweeny shade, consider backing up your opinion with documented references. that way it won't be just your opinion. the west end stadium area is on the verge of pumping $300 million dollars in this area. And that in itself will bring another 300 million in investment over the next ten years. Saving an 1850s style building that looks pretty much like the rest of OTR is a silly waste of an argument.

Dude, I've traveled the world and you gave me shade about doing so and not caring about Cincinnatians opinions.  You know what I don't give a darn because IMO I think the prevaling idea is wrong.

 

Sometimes living elsewhere gives people perspective and perspective I see lacking.  These buildings are valuable to everyone in the country except ingrates in the Cincinnati area who can't see the forest through the trees.

I don’t know why are we comparing mls ratings when the league itself is barely 20 years old.

 

Also, I love historic buildings...I wish we can preserve them all.

 

That said, give me a city that has life, pedestrians walking day and night. Cincy has a huge historic stock, but so very actual energy and life. Too man people just work there but not enough people actually live there, and still the mass majority that do unfortunately are in incredible generational poverty and many of them have long criminal records.

an 1850s style building that looks pretty much like the rest of OTR

 

Yes, this is how “historic districts” work.

When you disagree with someone's comments, instead of throw your tweeny shade, consider backing up your opinion with documented references.

 

Pot, meet kettle.

City moves to sell key piece of land for FC Cincinnati stadium

 

 

The city of Cincinnati is moving to sell the Cincinnati Police District 1 parking lot to FC Cincinnati for the construction of its new stadium in the West End.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/09/24/city-moves-to-sell-key-piece-of-land-for-fc.html

^A key to the stadium's success (or failure) will be how it interfaces with the surrounding buildings and streets. I really hope CPD doesn't keep a surface parking lot right next to the stadium. I wish CPD would sell that entire surface parking lot in exchange for parking spaces in one of the to-be-built structured garages.

^A key to the stadium's success (or failure) will be how it interfaces with the surrounding buildings and streets. I really hope CPD doesn't keep a surface parking lot right next to the stadium. I wish CPD would sell that entire surface parking lot in exchange for parking spaces in one of the to-be-built structured garages.

 

CPD should build a new district 1 HQ at the northwest corner of Ezzard Charles Drive and Linn Street. (Don’t ask me where to find the money...)

^A key to the stadium's success (or failure) will be how it interfaces with the surrounding buildings and streets. I really hope CPD doesn't keep a surface parking lot right next to the stadium. I wish CPD would sell that entire surface parking lot in exchange for parking spaces in one of the to-be-built structured garages.

 

If only there were a city owned garage directly across the street from District 1 HQ

Deal struck for company to move out of FC Cincinnati stadium site

 

Cincinnati City Council members have an agreement that will pave the way for Tristate Wholesale Building Supplies to move to Lower Price Hill from the site of FC Cincinnati’s site for its Major League Soccer stadium.

 

Tristate Wholesale Building Supplies will pay the city the fair market price of $176,000 for 7 acres at the MetroWest Commerce Park. The site will house a new, $6.1 million headquarters for the company.

 

The city administration had proposed the company pay $1, but council members Greg Landsman, Chris Seelbach, Tamaya Dennard and Wendell Young balked because the company reportedly got $25 million from the club to move out of the West End stadium site. They argued that the company can afford to pay the city market price for the Lower Price Hill land because of what FC Cincinnati gave it for its West End land.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/10/01/deal-struck-for-company-to-move-out-of-fc.html

I actually enjoyed seeing that "rendering" :'(

City Council paves the way for business to move out of FC Cincinnati stadium site

 

Cincinnati City Council voted unanimously for a plan on Wednesday that will allow Tristate Wholesale Building Supplies Inc. to move out of the planned footprint of FC Cincinnati’s Major League Soccer stadium to Lower Price Hill.

 

Tristate Building Supplies will pay $176,000 to a fund set up to maintain affordable housing in the West End. In exchange, the city will turn over property at the MetroWest Commerce Park in Lower Price Hill to the company for $1 for its new $6.7 million, nearly 7-acre headquarters. The $176,000 is the fair-market value of the property, but the company will donate that as a charitable contribution to the fund. The construction cost is $6.1 million but does not include $687,000 of mitigation costs.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/10/03/city-council-paves-the-way-for-business-to-move.html

WCPO does a story on how people will miss the stadium...but hardly anyone's in the stands:

https://www.wcpo.com/sports/high-school-sports/high-school-football/taft-athletes-coaches-will-miss-stargel-stadium

Not a ton of folks in this stands for the B roll, but I have been to pretty packed games at Taft before. I can especially remember right before elections last year, Tamaya and PG were sort of  holding court in the stands for a very packed game. One of my roommates is an assistant coach for the team.

At least one rendering and some details out on the Biz Courier site. 

Do you have a link? I don't see it on their site

 

Nevermind. Here's a link to initial renderings

 

I can’t tell from the schematics that well...but it doesn’t seem like this involves that many historic tear downs? 

 

Also just FYI, this is design 1 of 4 being presented to the west community council.

 

11 minutes ago, troeros said:

I can’t tell from the schematics that well...but it doesn’t seem like this involves that many historic tear downs? 

 

Also just FYI, this is design 1 of 4 being presented to the west community council.

 

 

Are you sure about it being one of four designs? The article states that it is at the first of four stages of design, not that it necessarily one of four design options. This said, the article also acknowledges that additional modifications and adjustments are expected, so we will see what is final.

 

I like it! Should be an awesome stadium!

The front-facing buildings are going to be key.  This needs to be somewhat covered by a mall in front that makes the transition a little less stark.  I like the way Sevilla FC has theirs situated; I was there back in May.  Seville Stadium

Edited October 9, 20186 yr by 10albersa

So, first pass reading on this.

EDIT Second Pass

 

1) It looks like they are lifting the entire stadium concourse up on a plinth that will face Central Parkway. This should do two things. First, it will make the overall building seem shorter from the East. Second, it allows for this "future development" of what is likely gear shops, cafes, and bars to be on the concourse level and face the street. There is a question as to whether you would be able to enter a bar in the stadium from Central Parkway or if you would have to go up those steps onto the plinth before entering. 

2) The EFTE is looking way more stripey instead of the plastic "pillows" we had seen before. 

3) The Bailey, the section of stands facing south, looks gigantic, which will make the tifos look awesome.

4) It's really refreshing to see a stadium design that understands the injustice of putting the same number of women's bathrooms as men's bathrooms. If you notice, all of the women's bathrooms are about a third larger than the men's. This is a big step forward for equity in design.

5) Historic building fatality 1. I'm a tad bit emotional about the theater, but alas... 

Edited October 9, 20186 yr by Chas Wiederhold

FC Cincinnati deal to invest in West End advances with Port, neighborhood pact

 

The Port of Greater Cincinnati Redevelopment Authority, known as the Port, can proceed with redeveloping properties in the West End now that it has reached a deal with a West End neighborhood housing group to team up on projects. 

 

The agreement, an outgrowth of the FC Cincinnati professional soccer team’s community benefits agreement with the West End that was part of its deal to build a $200 million-plus stadium in the neighborhood, is a memorandum of understanding between the Port and Seven Hills Neighborhood Houses. It paves the way for the Port to proceed with its plan that was part of the FC Cincinnati stadium deal to renovate and redevelop properties in the West End.  

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/10/09/fc-cincinnati-deal-to-invest-in-west-end-advances.html

Updated renderings:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/10/09/fc-cincinnati-unveils-stadium-design-slideshow.html