I'm seeing something mysterious on the south side of Wade where the Jahovah's Witness church is now, but the rendering's background is also intentionally jumbled to keep us guessing. 

1 hour ago, Chas Wiederhold said:

4) It's really refreshing to see a stadium design that understands the injustice of putting the same number of women's bathrooms as men's bathrooms. If you notice, all of the women's bathrooms are about a third larger than the men's. This is a big step forward for equity in design.

 

This is a requirement of the Building Code now.  Toilet requirement: 1 per 75 men and 1 per 40 women.

Welp it's generating predictable results:

1. A lot of people outraged over the fact that it's not brick and no attempt appears to made to have it blend it. 

2. People not realizing that the orange are lights and can change colors and be turned off. 

3. People who love it. 

 

I would have rather seen it blend in a bit more but I'm not that more apathetic then upset about it.  I'm curious to see what the development plans look like for the buildings look like on Central Pkwy. 

 

I was kind of hoping the roof of 1403 central and some potential new construction would get a Wrigley Rooftop treatment which would have been really urban and interesting, but with the full canopy that's not really possible. It seems like it hasn't really changed at all, and it also has no real frontage so it's really hard to tell what it's going to look like from the neighborhood. Birdseye renderings are really unhelpful when it comes to context and understanding it's affect on the pedestrian experience. I will wait to see what 120' tall looks like from street level before I judge, but to me this site layout really puts all the importance on the "Future Development" facing Wade/Central. 

Edited October 9, 20186 yr by ucgrady

With the huge width of Central Parkway I'm not too concerned with seeing the structure from almost any of Over-the-Rhine. Obviously it will be visible from the west, but I don't think most of OTR will be able to see the stadium unless you are on the western border at Central Parkway. It'll be hidden behind just about any building, I bet.

According to my extremely crude google earthing, it will be visible from Washington Park using the 120' tall figure. Not that that is a big deal necessarily, but as one of the few wide open spaces in OTR it would definitely be visible from the lawn. 

 

EDIT: Colored the stadium to make it easier to see

 

Edited October 9, 20186 yr by ucgrady

2 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

I'm seeing something mysterious on the south side of Wade where the Jahovah's Witness church is now, but the rendering's background is also intentionally jumbled to keep us guessing. 

 

In which rendering? In this one, you can see the Tri-State Building Supplies building and the old church at the corner of John/Bauer... but I don't think this angle reveals anything that would be south of Wade.

 

 

And the site plans show that they aren't - as of yet - revealing any plans for south of Wade:

The parking garage is probably going to be taller than the stadium. 

423 Wade just closed for $450,000:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1122217,-84.5232411,3a,75y,188.01h,115.79t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sY2z2130p2vmMWPEHEbHfsw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

423 is just the western of these two buildings.  421 is owned by the Kuhfer's Lofts developer. 

 

Also, I talked to a person completely removed from the previous person I talked to (I'll call him "Source #2") who confirmed that virtually everything between Wade and Liberty has been purchased although not much of it has closed.  It will all close in 2019. 

 

According to Source #2, they confirmed that Revelation Baptist Church has sold and will be demolished.  The concrete block building that reaches between Wade and Bauer owned by "Feast of Love" adjacent to Revalation's parking lot has sold.  All of the buildings involved in Kuhfer's Lofts have sold, despite just two condos having been completed. 

 

Additionally, this building on Central Ave. has sold and tenants have two years to vacate:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1125195,-84.5224593,3a,75y,305.87h,104.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stZBVE_S-XWJGNrA39iCRMg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

All vacant lots on the south side of Wade and on the west side of Central between Wade and Bauer have sold. 

 

So who has not sold?

 

This guy is hodling:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1127803,-84.5230914,3a,88.3y,25.5h,91.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sU0zR21tPnmJIiFFY5i-iMQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

This guy is hodling:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1127918,-84.5232627,3a,75y,7.76h,101.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sleZkx3vIETafvNZ7TyLRzg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

Also hodling:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1127685,-84.5229129,3a,75y,234.08h,95.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sx2sbm5Y6uERqKsUClzIYCQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

Also hodling:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1127803,-84.5230914,3a,75y,202.05h,94.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sU0zR21tPnmJIiFFY5i-iMQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 20186 yr by jmecklenborg

I like your use of hodl there lol.

Are there any plots that they have to have before construction or have all of those been bought?

5 hours ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

Are there any plots that they have to have before construction or have all of those been bought?

 

No, I believe they have everything under contract if they haven't closed on it already.  What I'm amazed by, looking back at where we were in December-January, is how the local media just couldn't figure out what was going on when all the signs were there and a half dozen people on the internet were able to figure it out.  I mean, the change of internal ownership of the Jehovah's Witness property in November 2017 was an obvious signal that they were preparing to sell. 

 

When all if this stuff closes we'll see who played their hands well and who sold way too easily.  Already we see people who didn't realize what was going on and others who made out with some serious life-changing cash like the myth, the legend Stoney Lee Brooks. 

 

It'll be interesting to see what the various religious organizations sold for.  I fear that one or two of them may have sold for WAY too low. 

 

 

 

its gonna be big, bold, colorful, modern and loud. i can't wait.

On 10/15/2018 at 3:46 PM, jmecklenborg said:

According to Source #2, they confirmed that Revelation Baptist Church has sold and will be demolished.  The concrete block building that reaches between Wade and Bauer owned by "Feast of Love" adjacent to Revalation's parking lot has sold.  All of the buildings involved in Kuhfer's Lofts have sold, despite just two condos having been completed. 

 

You say you want a revelation, well, you know...

The big question is if the new owners plan to keep Kuhfer's Lofts or if they plan to tear everything down.  Obviously I hope for the former. 

 

Here is the corner parking lot owned formerly owned by Revelation Baptist Church, then the unused block building owned formerly owned by Feast of Love.  It's not hard to imagine a boutique hotel or new apartments/condos similar to The Allison going up here, but I fear that FC's mysterious development arm wants to tear everything down that you can see here:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1122757,-84.5240164,3a,75y,50.59h,83.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJHnyraz91gyIc8G0uZ7bVA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

Here is the other hot and mysterious corner at Wade & Central Ave.  True Story: I attempted to buy this vacant lot (actually 4 lots) two years ago.  I put the letters in the Corryville post office's curbside mailboxes and heard nothing for a month.  Then one party contacted me and considered selling but then changed their mind. 

 https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1122224,-84.5223363,3a,75y,301.91h,95.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sn8c28xHbZ0xE_d2JjehQ8Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

I'm guessing that in two years Revelation Baptist Church and the various block buildings fronting Liberty will have been replaced by a SpringHill Suites or some such:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1134597,-84.5243745,3a,48.3y,127.11h,99.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTQWDxht4764Ks0s96-b47g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

 

 

 

Construction to begin the week of November 16:

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/fc-cincinnati-to-unveil-stadium-plans

 

Also, FC has conceded design of the replacement Stargell to CPS. 

See, look at how quickly Cincinnati can act without Cranley, other DINOs and Republicans in the way? If the Old Money is behind something, watch it go. There is nothing fundamentally flawed with Cincinnati.

 

 

1 hour ago, jmecklenborg said:

Construction to begin the week of November 16:

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/fc-cincinnati-to-unveil-stadium-plans

 

The WCPO article mentions that FCC is still exploring various options for parking, including "some underground parking on the stadium site" (according to Dave Spauling, the VP of construction for Turner). I wouldn't expect a lot of underground parking, but the more that is buried the better!

Just now, jwulsin said:

 

The WCPO article mentions that FCC is still exploring various options for parking, including "some underground parking on the stadium site" (according to Dave Spauling, the VP of construction for Turner). I wouldn't expect a lot of underground parking, but the more that is buried the better!

 

How on earth is this still undecided with the groundbreaking so soon? 

Just now, thebillshark said:

 

How on earth is this still undecided with the groundbreaking so soon? 

Spaulding talks about this at the end of in the last ~2 minutes of the press conference. It seems like any on-site parking will be pretty limited to media/players/teams. The field will be at the elevation of Central Ave and so there simply won't be much room for a lot of underground parking. 

FC Cincinnati sets stadium construction timeline

 

FC Cincinnati will begin its West End Major League Soccer stadium project in mid-November, with major construction beginning in March, officials with Turner Construction and the club said Friday.

 

Cincinnati Public Schools currently is working on where its sports teams will play in 2019, but the new Stargel Stadium may not be complete by then, said David Spaulding, vice president of Turner Construction. The district took over management of that construction project itself.

 

“That is a decision made by CPS,” said Mark Mallory, FC Cincinnati’s director of community development.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/10/19/fc-cincinnati-sets-stadium-construction-timeline.html

FC Cincinnati stadium builder: Orange glow won’t be cast over West End

 

The renderings of FC Cincinnati’s Major League Soccer stadium in the West Endshow a bright-orange stadium skin projecting light off into the surrounding neighborhood.

 

But the stadium’s lead contractor, Cincinnati-based Turner Construction, said that won’t actually be the case once it’s built.

 

“That’s architectural license,” said David Spaulding, vice president at the construction company. “It should not have that effect.”

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/10/19/fc-cincinnati-stadium-builder-orange-glow-won-t-be.html

 

Just now, thebillshark said:

 

How on earth is this still undecided with the groundbreaking so soon? 

 

 

They're still bobbing and weaving and lying to the public.  The whole thing, from Day 1, has been a big real estate game.  To quote my uncle: "Real Estate guys, they lie". 

Demolition plan released for FCC site plan.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/ckpj99/status/1053269904663678977

Edited October 19, 20186 yr by troeros

11 minutes ago, thebillshark said:

 

How on earth is this still undecided with the groundbreaking so soon? 

A lot of construction is determined at a very late date.

 

An unnerving amount. I would guess they have tentative plans that are further along than they are leading on.

I still don't understand why they bought some buildings but didn't buy others. I would think they would want to create the biggest rectangle they could. 

Just now, troeros said:

Demolition plan released for FCC site plan.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/ckpj99/status/1053269904663678977

The demo plan doesn't seem to be touching the Jehovah's Witness building/site, and (for now, at least) they seem to be leaving the two historic multi-family buildings at 421, 423 Wade.

Just now, jwulsin said:

The demo plan doesn't seem to be touching the Jehovah's Witness building/site, and (for now, at least) they seem to be leaving the two historic multi-family buildings at 421, 423 Wade.

 

Yeah there clearly is more than one demolition contract.  The big warehouse/Cincinnati Ballet is spared for the time being, but we all know they're doomed. 

 

Also, 419 Wade and presumably the Jehovah's Witnesses, Kuhfer's Lofts, Revelation Baptist Church, Feast of Love, et al, have been purchased by a different LLC than the "West End Ventures" that is the alias of FC Cincinnati.  "Central Development LLC 407 Vine St" is the proud new owner of 419 & 423 Wade, and is the likely has the rest of all of that under contract. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just now, jmblec2 said:

I still don't understand why they bought some buildings but didn't buy others. I would think they would want to create the biggest rectangle they could. 

 

They got what they need for the stadium.  The only thing I don’t understand why they didn’t get is the cell phone tower lot facing Central Parkway. Maybe the owner is holding out for too high a price. The two buildings along Central Parkway to the south of Galena Alley that aren’t included, “Mozart Garage” (whose sign is in FCC colors) and an office building, have both been recently rehabbed and are in great shape. Maybe someday upper stories could be added to those structures 

Edited October 19, 20186 yr by thebillshark

Just now, ryanlammi said:

A lot of construction is determined at a very late date.

 

An unnerving amount. I would guess they have tentative plans that are further along than they are leading on.

i have confidence that the architect, construction company and the city have this under control. Its a stadium to built on basically a flat plane. They have done this before and do it again. If it falls over we know where to find them.

Just now, thebillshark said:

 

They got what they need for the stadium.  The only thing I don’t understand why they didn’t get is the cell phone tower lot facing Central Parkway. Maybe the owner is holding out for too high a price. The two buildings along Central Parkway to the south of Galena Alley that aren’t included, “Mozart Garage” (whose sign is in FCC colors) and an office building, have both been recently rehabbed and are in great shape. Maybe someday upper stories could be added to those structures 

 

 

Some or all of this stuff could be under contract with a closing date scheduled for 2019. 

 

On 10/19/2018 at 4:56 PM, RJohnson said:

i have confidence that the architect, construction company and the city have this under control. Its a stadium to built on basically a flat plane. They have done this before and do it again. If it falls over we know where to find them.

 

Agreed... Turner and Meis have built a lot of stadiums, and it gives me confidence that they're leading this project. It is a pretty "simple"  to work on, considering how flat it is and how few major obstacles exist. 

Does anyone know what will be done with the underground lagering tunnels at 1535 Central Parkway? It's shown on the demo plan with a green overlay and i'm not sure what the colors represent. I know it's probably unrealistic to hope that those get saved, but if they could build their entrance plaza or "future development" on top of that it would be awesome. 

Just now, ucgrady said:

Does anyone know what will be done with the underground lagering tunnels at 1535 Central Parkway? It's shown on the demo plan with a green overlay and i'm not sure what the colors represent. I know it's probably unrealistic to hope that those get saved, but if they could build their entrance plaza or "future development" on top of that it would be awesome. 

It was mentioned in the press conference at time 3:00 by the Turner Construction, saying that the "one of the neat things about that (surface parking lot) is that there's a large beer cave underneath so there will be a lot of site shoring and foundations under there". I don't know exactly what that means... but it at least implies aren't going to just simply fill it in. 

 

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/fc-cincinnati-to-unveil-stadium-plans

 

 

^^ Pretty sure I saw on the Demo plan that there was a note that specifically said 'demo and fill Old Lager Cellars' but i hope that doesn't mean what it sounds like, Would be sad if they wasted a potential feature like that. FCC Underground in the historic Lion Brewery tunnels would be a killer pregame spot.

 

I really hope FCC can get the cell phone tower lot and the ugly two story building just south of it.  

2 hours ago, SleepyLeroy said:

^^ Pretty sure I saw on the Demo plan that there was a note that specifically said 'demo and fill Old Lager Cellars' but i hope that doesn't mean what it sounds like, Would be sad if they wasted a potential feature like that. FCC Underground in the historic Lion Brewery tunnels would be a killer pregame spot.

 

 That’s what I was thinking. Maybe have a bar down there during the games and during the off season have it as a place people can rent out. 

Just now, Ucgrad2015 said:

 That’s what I was thinking. Maybe have a bar down there during the games and during the off season have it as a place people can rent out. 

 Bonus points for connecting it to the Liberty Street subway station

Sounds like a great place for the away team locker room. Minimal updates of course.

Ballet wants to stay on Central Parkway, but its parking lot is in FCC stadium site’s footprint

 

The Cincinnati Ballet, which is growing both its traditional performance-based business and its Otto M. Budig Academy, says it will stay put in its building and parking lot along Central Parkway, which sits in the midst of the FC Cincinnati’s stadium site’s footprint.

 

With a seven-year lease on both the building and the parking lot that is extendable for another 10 years, the ballet's status is a major unresolved issue as FC Cincinnati plans to start construction on its nearby Major League Stadium in November. Ballet officials and its board are concerned that with the site next door set to turn into a major construction zone, no plan for co-existence of soccer and FCC has been reached.

 

FCC will be the ballet’s landlord once it completes its purchase of the land owned by the limited liability company that owns the Tristate Wholesale Building Supplies site at 1550 Central Parkway, which sits next to the ballet building at 1555 Central Parkway. 

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/10/24/ballet-wants-to-stay-on-central-parkway-but-its.html

3 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

Ballet wants to stay on Central Parkway, but its parking lot is in FCC stadium site’s footprint

 

The Cincinnati Ballet, which is growing both its traditional performance-based business and its Otto M. Budig Academy, says it will stay put in its building and parking lot along Central Parkway, which sits in the midst of the FC Cincinnati’s stadium site’s footprint.

 

With a seven-year lease on both the building and the parking lot that is extendable for another 10 years, the ballet's status is a major unresolved issue as FC Cincinnati plans to start construction on its nearby Major League Stadium in November. Ballet officials and its board are concerned that with the site next door set to turn into a major construction zone, no plan for co-existence of soccer and FCC has been reached.

 

FCC will be the ballet’s landlord once it completes its purchase of the land owned by the limited liability company that owns the Tristate Wholesale Building Supplies site at 1550 Central Parkway, which sits next to the ballet building at 1555 Central Parkway. 

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/10/24/ballet-wants-to-stay-on-central-parkway-but-its.html

I read that only as 'Ballet wants FCC to pay for it to move'. I didn't realize that they didn't own their building either, and since it is physically connected to the one being demolished it will be an interesting and delicate process to keep them in the same spot I assume.

^ Would be cool to see what a combination Soccer stadium/Ballet facility would look like too. I bet Austin (or insert current hip city here) isn't building one of those!

Yeah sorry ballet but if you don't own the parking lot you don't have any right to money.  I'm sure FCC will let them use their garage on non gamedays but until the new one is built they'll have to deal with it.  Pretty laughable how everyone is trying to get paid by someone in this stadium saga. 

Quote

Yeah sorry ballet but if you don't own the parking lot you don't have any right to money.  I'm sure FCC will let them use their garage on non gamedays but until the new one is built they'll have to deal with it.  Pretty laughable how everyone is trying to get paid by someone in this stadium saga. 

 

They have a 7 year lease with another 10 year option, so they do have a right to use it.  If FCC wants it, they have to buy them out of their leasehold interest.  My guess is that the lease for the building and the parking lot are tied together, if they are not the same lease.  If FCC wants them out, they will either have to provide parking elsewhere or give them enough money to relocate to entice them to release their interest in the site.

The traffic from soccer games is going to make it difficult for the ballet to access their building.  But that will be the case no matter where they move within a five-block radius of their current location.  So they should probably move south of Central Parkway, aka "downtown". 

FC Cincinnati's Berding accuses Ballet of ‘shakedown,' won't name alleged culprit

 

Jeff Berding, the president of FC Cincinnati, accused the Cincinnati Ballet of trying to shake down the club for $1 million, but he will not name the person who allegedly asked him for the payment.

 

The ballet’s CEO, Scott Altman, called the allegation “patently false,” adding that the only people authorized to negotiate on behalf of the organization are himself and board chair Debbie Brant. 

 

Berding made his remarks in the Cincinnati Enquirer on Thursday, the day after the Business Courier reported that the ballet planned to stay in its current headquarters and parking lot, which sits in the footprint of the Major League Soccer stadium FCC plans to build. When asked by the Courier about the ballet’s position on Wednesday, a club spokeswoman made no mention of any shakedown attempt. 

 

The Enquirer did not report the name of the alleged shakedown culprit. FCC did not respond to requests to name him or her when the Courier asked. 

 

“Neither of us have had any conversations with FCC or any of its representatives about a financial ask of any kind,” Altman said. “The first we heard about this $1 million ask was last night when the Enquirer reporter told us they heard about it from an unnamed source. We have no idea who the unnamed source is and the Enquirer would not share it with us, making it impossible for us to refute.”

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/10/25/fc-cincinnatisberding-accuses-ballet-of-shakedown.html

This is just beyond cartoonish at this point. 

6 hours ago, Cincy513 said:

Yeah sorry ballet but if you don't own the parking lot you don't have any right to money.  I'm sure FCC will let them use their garage on non gamedays but until the new one is built they'll have to deal with it.  Pretty laughable how everyone is trying to get paid by someone in this stadium saga. 

 

This spat is blue bloods vs. blue bloods so should be interesting how it turns out. If FCC just waited a year for the IRS site in Covington to open up they would have had things a lot easier!

^That IRS site is going to be tied up for a long time.

That IRS site isn't going to open up for a while.  Government owned land does not get sold very quickly.