I think it's definitely something the supporter groups should/could do. As long as I'm involved I will be sure to push that. It's definitely not a conversation until the off season of 2020-21, but I think it would make perfect sense to push that with the front office. Talking about it now is pretty pointless since there isn't really any infrastructure to build out to make it work, it's just better managing it.

I think the conversation might need to happen sooner rather than later... for a different reason.

From my involvement in a neighborhood group that's trying to extract more community engagement from FCC, I'm hearing that most my neighbors want some amount of confidence that game day won't completely disrupt their lives. This is something I am more sympathetic to than empathetic to (1, being an FCC fan myself; 2, enjoying the flags, marches, smoke, songs and chants; and 3, not owning a car), but in the spirit of being a good neighbor it might be worthwhile for you and I to chat about how Die Innenstadt could visibly be the hero this conflict needs -- and I don't think there is any reason to push off a meeting between neighbors to the stadium and supporters. 

Of all the supporter groups this kind of action will almost have to fall on DI being the city supporter group. It will be interesting to see what bars all the groups end up at. I imagine the march will start at Washington Park but I have no idea. The only thing I remember seeing that QCM was talking to Taft Ale House but that was a long time ago and I'm not even sure QCM should count as a legit group. Rhinehaus would be an obvious pick for DI but it's way too small and maybe a bit too far away. 

Edited December 18, 20186 yr by cincydave8

18 hours ago, ryanlammi said:

I think it's definitely something the supporter groups should/could do. As long as I'm involved I will be sure to push that. It's definitely not a conversation until the off season of 2020-21, but I think it would make perfect sense to push that with the front office. Talking about it now is pretty pointless since there isn't really any infrastructure to build out to make it work, it's just better managing it.

 

I think you should start early as getting people on board for such stuff can be difficult and the earlier you start the more likely a coalition will be built.

27 minutes ago, cincydave8 said:

Rhinehaus would be an obvious pick for DI but it's way too small and maybe a bit too far away. 

 

Its a 15 minute walk, which IMO is about ideal if you want to have a march that's a celebration.  I'll agree on it being too small though, Rhinegeist, Tafts, or Sam Adams would be better.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/rhinehaus,+East+12th+Street,+Cincinnati,+OH/1500+Central+Ave,+Cincinnati,+OH+45214/@39.1091342,-84.5215996,776m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x8841b157e2d0885f:0xcb6afbd31518dd1f!2m2!1d-84.512426!2d39.1085039!1m5!1m1!1s0x8841b3ff865ba26b:0x90a5497c1e41023f!2m2!1d-84.5219203!2d39.1109084!3e2

 

Edited December 18, 20186 yr by neilworms

1 hour ago, Chas Wiederhold said:

I think the conversation might need to happen sooner rather than later... for a different reason.

From my involvement in a neighborhood group that's trying to extract more community engagement from FCC, I'm hearing that most my neighbors want some amount of confidence that game day won't completely disrupt their lives. This is something I am more sympathetic to than empathetic to (1, being an FCC fan myself; 2, enjoying the flags, marches, smoke, songs and chants; and 3, not owning a car), but in the spirit of being a good neighbor it might be worthwhile for you and I to chat about how Die Innenstadt could visibly be the hero this conflict needs -- and I don't think there is any reason to push off a meeting between neighbors to the stadium and supporters. 

I was thinking more about the discussions with the team, and not the neighborhood itself. Right now, anything that is not immediately about the stadium construction or the MLS roster is pretty much an afterthought right now for the team. They are running on all cylinders to get things where they need to be to keep schedule with construction, roster building, and revamping their entire gameplan for MLS. A lot behind the scenes has to change. Their turnaround for an MLS team is unprecedented. Most teams have 2+ years to prepare for MLS after getting the nod. FCC got about 8 months from announcement to kickoff (admittedly they were planning for it, but there's only so much you can do before you officially get in). Trying to discuss this right now with the team would honestly fall on deaf ears. We need to wait until things slow down a little bit before we start approaching the team about game day traffic and transit logistics.

I'd be happy to meet with you to discuss things related to the neighborhood and the SGs. The last thing I want is for our activities to be negatively impacting the neighborhood. I'll message you independently.

7 hours ago, neilworms said:

 

Its a 15 minute walk, which IMO is about ideal if you want to have a march that's a celebration.  I'll agree on it being too small though, Rhinegeist, Tafts, or Sam Adams would be better.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/rhinehaus,+East+12th+Street,+Cincinnati,+OH/1500+Central+Ave,+Cincinnati,+OH+45214/@39.1091342,-84.5215996,776m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x8841b157e2d0885f:0xcb6afbd31518dd1f!2m2!1d-84.512426!2d39.1085039!1m5!1m1!1s0x8841b3ff865ba26b:0x90a5497c1e41023f!2m2!1d-84.5219203!2d39.1109084!3e2

 

I remember there were some fans that walked from rheingeist down to stargel for saints games when they were there.

Many people currently walk 15+ minutes to any event at Nippert Stadium or Shoemaker Center 5/3 Arena. 

FC Cincinnati breaks ground on $250M stadium

 

 

Ground has finally been broken – at least in a ceremonial sense – on FC Cincinnati’s $250 million soccer stadium in the West End.

 

The team poised to move up to Major League Soccer as an expansion franchise next season held the groundbreaking ceremony on Tuesday afternoon with several hundred fans in attendance and a host of dignitaries on the stage, including MLS commissioner Don Garber.

 

“This is the realization of a very big dream,” FC Cincinnati president and general manager Jeff Berding told me after the event. “But there’s a lot of work to do.”

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/12/18/fc-cincinnati-breaks-ground-on-250m-stadium-photos.html

13 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

Many people currently walk 15+ minutes to any event at Nippert Stadium or Shoemaker Center 5/3 Arena. 

Exactly.  Some people act like all the parking in Clifton is so close to Nippert.  Unless you've got premium seats and get to park under CCM you're probably walking 10-15 minutes from your car to the stadium.  Most people get there early and do something before the game (eat, drink, play in the kids area) and I imagine you'll see the same thing in OTR once the new stadium opens.  

Sorry about the poor quality...here are photos from December 25.  Hardly anything left of Stargel Stadium. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Initial FC Cincinnati stadium plan gets key approval, but final fate is uncertain

 

 

The Cincinnati Planning Commission approved zoning changes and initial plans needed for FC Cincinnati’s Major League Soccer stadium on Friday, sending those items to the Cincinnati City Council, where they could face political turbulence.

 

Vice Mayor Christopher Smitherman, a member of the commission, recused himself from the vote because Jostin Construction, a company owned by his brother and sister-in-law, Albert and Liza Smitherman, have a contract to do work on the stadium.

 

Vice Mayor Smitherman, an independent, was one of five council members to back a nearly $35 million package of city incentives for infrastructure and site preparation of the stadium, which will be at the site of the former Cincinnati Public Schools Stargel Stadium in the West End. Without Smitherman’s vote and if the four council members who opposed the deal – Greg Landsman, Chris Seelbach, Wendell Young and Tamaya Dennard, all Democrats – stay consistent with their prior votes, the needed site plan and zoning change will not pass.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/01/04/initial-fc-cincinnati-stadium-plan-gets-key.html

Per the auditor, on December 31 all of the Cincinnati Public Schools property north of Taft High School purchased by "West End Ventures LLC" in 2018 transferred to the Port Authority. 

 

West End Ventures still owns all of the property where CPS will build the new high school stadium.  West End Ventures also owns most of what abuts Central Parkway and it owns the big warehouse at the corner of Central Ave. and Liberty. 

 

Mysteriously, on December 21 1549 Central Ave. transferred ownership via a Sheriff's deed to the Hamilton County land bank.  VERY strange.  That lot is worth $40-60k.  Did they stop paying taxes?  I can't tell. 

Confirmed!!! Unbelievable Andy Mac!!!

 

I'm not reading between the lines here. What is the implication of this?

Well a developer can now get that lot for basically free out of the land bank.

 

What's crazy is that in spring 2017 I wrote a letter to this guy offering to buy that lot and received no response (nor did I receive a response from most people who I attempted to contact).  I did receive a response from the owner of an adjacent lot and that party decided at the last minute not to sell it to me.  Adjacent property owners get dibs (I believe) in claiming ownership of land banked property, so we might see Odd Lots, LLC or York St. Methodist Church get this lot. 

 

A lot of people end up with random city lots through inheritances.  They might live out of town.  If they're old and get ill they might stop paying the taxes either because of dementia or lack of funds, and that's how we end up in this situation. 

York St. Methodist Church just sold their lot at 1553 Central Ave. on Central Ave. to Central Development LLC for $38,000.  

 

 

 

Central Development LLC now owns:

419 Wade

423 Wade

1553 Central Ave.

 

 

I attempted to buy 1553 Central Ave. in early 2017.  I had a verbal agreement from that church to sell for $8,500, then they backed out.  The one that got away...

 

 

 

City Council pushing back on the idea of closing Central Parkway on game days.

 

 

That seems really short-sighted.

 

Their reasoning is also extremely arbitrary. These things were here first, thus they can't be affected. Guess what - traffic will be affected by the stadium just existing on game days. Prohibiting the closure of certain streets is not going to magically make everything work well.

 

What they are essentially trying to do is micromanage event planning without any details about how their actions could impact the effectiveness of the traffic flow in the neighborhood.

The second paragraph of the motion leads me to believe that this is part of a larger effort happening behind the scenes. Stay tuned.

I don't think Central Pkwy needs to be closed on gamedays.  Just have cops at certain intersections to direct traffic.  The Reds have cops at 2nd and Main before and after games.  I don't think that would be too difficult. 

16 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

That seems really short-sighted.

 

Their reasoning is also extremely arbitrary. These things were here first, thus they can't be affected. Guess what - traffic will be affected by the stadium just existing on game days. Prohibiting the closure of certain streets is not going to magically make everything work well.

 

What they are essentially trying to do is micromanage event planning without any details about how their actions could impact the effectiveness of the traffic flow in the neighborhood.

 

There certainly needs to be a coordinated plan for traffic on game days but I don't see how closing Central Parkway would ever need to be a part of that plan.

8 minutes ago, Cincy513 said:

I don't think Central Pkwy needs to be closed on gamedays.  Just have cops at certain intersections to direct traffic.  The Reds have cops at 2nd and Main before and after games.  I don't think that would be too difficult. 

The reds also close down streets near the end of games and before games.

 

14 minutes ago, taestell said:

The second paragraph of the motion leads me to believe that this is part of a larger effort happening behind the scenes. Stay tuned.

I would rather have an actual policy discussion instead of a series of knee-jerk reactions to restrict what the administration can do, without studying the issue. Certain residents have the ears of certain council members, and are using it to force decisions to be made without studying them.

 

1 minute ago, DEPACincy said:

 

There certainly needs to be a coordinated plan for traffic on game days but I don't see how closing Central Parkway would ever need to be a part of that plan.

I don't see how a reactionary ordinance like this is part of a coordinated plan. I could also see allowing for the closure of the western side of CP and allowing traffic in both directions on the eastern half as a positive (maybe even restricting access to people with OTR neighborhood parking permits). We don't even know where the parking garage for the stadium is being located. This is not a coordinated plan, and it's a shame we are passing policy on what some residents fear might be an issue.

2 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

I would rather have an actual policy discussion instead of a series of knee-jerk reactions to restrict what the administration can do, without studying the issue. Certain residents have the ears of certain council members, and are using it to force decisions to be made without studying them.

 

What council is trying to do right now is force the administration to have an actual policy discussion. So far, the administration's actions have been very knee-jerk, mostly car-focused, and do not demonstrate that they have a larger vision for how people get to and from the new stadium. For example, the Liberty Street road diet has been put on hold because the city wants to move cars to/from the new stadium as fast as possible, even though the Liberty Street road diet has been in the works for 6 years and the stadium location was just announced a few months ago. Also, what is the impact on transit of closing Central Parkway and diverting more traffic to Elm and Race?

5 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

The reds also close down streets near the end of games and before games.

 

I would rather have an actual policy discussion instead of a series of knee-jerk reactions to restrict what the administration can do, without studying the issue. Certain residents have the ears of certain council members, and are using it to force decisions to be made without studying them.

 

I don't see how a reactionary ordinance like this is part of a coordinated plan. I could also see allowing for the closure of the western side of CP and allowing traffic in both directions on the eastern half as a positive (maybe even restricting access to people with OTR neighborhood parking permits). We don't even know where the parking garage for the stadium is being located. This is not a coordinated plan, and it's a shame we are passing policy on what some residents fear might be an issue.

The Reds only close one little part of Main St/Joe Nuxhall Way.  They don't close 2nd St which would be the equivalent of closing Central Pkwy.  Central is much to important of a street to be closing it for multiple hours 20ish times a year.  I agree that this should be studied further but cops should be able to handle the game day traffic without having to close Central.  

14 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

I could also see allowing for the closure of the western side of CP and allowing traffic in both directions on the eastern half as a positive (maybe even restricting access to people with OTR neighborhood parking permits). We don't even know where the parking garage for the stadium is being located. This is not a coordinated plan, and it's a shame we are passing policy on what some residents fear might be an issue.

I don't think this motion precludes your idea about the western side being closed. It says ALL traffic. Allows a lot of leeway using that wording. It also directs the administration to come up with a plan. Which is exactly what you're saying needs to happen. I think this is the beginning of the conversation, not the end. 

1 minute ago, DEPACincy said:

I don't think this motion precludes your idea about the western side being closed. It says ALL traffic. Allows a lot of leeway using that wording. It also directs the administration to come up with a plan. Which is exactly what you're saying needs to happen. I think this is the beginning of the conversation, not the end. 

"Bike, bus, pedestrian, and vehicular traffic all predate the stadium plan and should remain unaffected."

 

I see this as saying traffic should be unaffected. No rerouting, no detouring, no changes in traffic patterns, no exemption for prohibiting vehicles, but allowing others modes of transport. Also, saying that they move that the administration "cease all work on plans to shut down traffic on Central Parkway during FC Cincinnati game days" implies that they don't even want the city study the issue to determine how traffic would be impacted.

16 minutes ago, taestell said:

 

What council is trying to do right now is force the administration to have an actual policy discussion. So far, the administration's actions have been very knee-jerk, mostly car-focused, and do not demonstrate that they have a larger vision for how people get to and from the new stadium. For example, the Liberty Street road diet has been put on hold because the city wants to move cars to/from the new stadium as fast as possible, even though the Liberty Street road diet has been in the works for 6 years and the stadium location was just announced a few months ago. Also, what is the impact on transit of closing Central Parkway and diverting more traffic to Elm and Race?

I agree that the administration has been terrible about the Liberty Street road diet. 

 

I also think that people who are asking for the prohibition of closing CP are using the same fear tactics about gridlock that the administration is using with Liberty (and everyone is using about the Brent Spence) without using any data to back up their claims. It's a terrible way to run the city.

I’m agnostic on closing the Parkway, but I am worried that we don’t have a good idea or schematics of DOTE’s plans for neighborhood streets, and we all know how biased they are towards designing streets for vehicle traffic, other stakeholders and design goals be damned. For example i noticed yesterday one of the largest trees along Ezzard Charles has been taken down. Why’d they do this? Ezzard Charles has such beautiful street trees. Are they widening the road? Are they going to fight the Liberty Street plan? These kinds of decisions have more effect on the day to day life of the neighborhood than the stadium itself and it feels like we’re being deliberately kept in the dark about these plans. 

Edited February 4, 20196 yr by thebillshark

As an aside, I don't think the team should be able to close Central Parkway and only allow people with tickets to enter. If the motion required anyone be allowed entry to the area closed, I would be fine with that. I don't like prohibiting any alterations to Central Parkway's traffic flow for any reason. 

Vision Realty group just closed on 1555 Central Ave.  So two developers now own individual lots on Central Ave. between Wade and Bauer. 

 

It is worded strangely like they just want have Central follow as if with no changes. I'm not sure if closing Central is the right thing to do but banning it all together seems short sited. Seelbach confirmed he wrote it and came up with himself, which is no surprise. He's on a war path to destroy anything good or bad towards FCC.

53 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

As an aside, I don't think the team should be able to close Central Parkway and only allow people with tickets to enter. If the motion required anyone be allowed entry to the area closed, I would be fine with that. I don't like prohibiting any alterations to Central Parkway's traffic flow for any reason. 

Do they still have the Fireman's Chili Fest on Central Parkway, or is this just geared to the Liberty St. area? I hate for clumsy language to accidentally kill anything off no matter how well intended it is. I do however see that having something in place as pushback is good idea so FCC doesn't just land in place and start throwing it's weight around solely for their own benefit.

On 1/25/2019 at 5:32 PM, jmecklenborg said:

York St. Methodist Church just sold their lot at 1553 Central Ave. on Central Ave. to Central Development LLC for $38,000.  

 

 

 

Central Development LLC now owns:

419 Wade

423 Wade

1553 Central Ave.

 

 

I attempted to buy 1553 Central Ave. in early 2017.  I had a verbal agreement from that church to sell for $8,500, then they backed out.  The one that got away...

 

 

 

 

A friend of mine owns  a building just a hundred yards north of this and the Land Bank has been trying to take it from him, saying it is a nuisance ...  They just started the action against him in the past few months since FCC announced the location....

^It's mysterious to me as to how that lot ended up in the hands of the Land Bank without being auctioned off by the sheriff.  I thought that the Land Bank took over all of the stuff that nobody bid on, which is why it owns very few good buildable parcels, at least anywhere east of I-75. 

2 hours ago, SleepyLeroy said:

Do they still have the Fireman's Chili Fest on Central Parkway, or is this just geared to the Liberty St. area? I hate for clumsy language to accidentally kill anything off no matter how well intended it is. I do however see that having something in place as pushback is good idea so FCC doesn't just land in place and start throwing it's weight around solely for their own benefit.

 

Last I checked it was on Plum and Court Streets. 

 

http://goldstarchilifest.com/

There are people in cities. Starting let's say in April, people start coming out because of sports, weather and entertainment. Traffic comes to a halt twice every day because of rush hour. Runners, walkers, bands, parties, street festivals, major sports events, minor sports events, rallies, parades, and holiday weekend festivals occur in cities. So, there will always be traffic jams. As long as you live in a city there will be traffic problems. There isn't a mind that can solve these problems. This forum can't solve, the city and county governments cant solve it. So embrace the traffic, the crowds, the inconvenience. Would you rather have visitors say, I went to Cincy and the streets were dead. Or would you rather hear, Cincy, what a hopping place. It's alive, lots to do, lots to see and worth a visit.

2 minutes ago, RJohnson said:

There are people in cities. Starting let's say in April, people start coming out because of sports, weather and entertainment. Traffic comes to a halt twice every day because of rush hour. Runners, walkers, bands, parties, street festivals, major sports events, minor sports events, rallies, parades, and holiday weekend festivals occur in cities. So, there will always be traffic jams. As long as you live in a city there will be traffic problems. There isn't a mind that can solve these problems. This forum can't solve, the city and county governments cant solve it. So embrace the traffic, the crowds, the inconvenience. Would you rather have visitors say, I went to Cincy and the streets were dead. Or would you rather hear, Cincy, what a hopping place. It's alive, lots to do, lots to see and worth a visit.

 

Very true. Even in the largest cities in America like NYC, Miami, Chicago, etc that all have built up rapid transit options, traffic still is a major reality. Traffic in your urban core is what sets you apart from being a tier 1 city (aka NYC, Chicago, etc), a tier 2 city (Cincy, Columbus, Cleveland, St. Louis) or a tier 3 city (Dayton, Akron, etc)

Looks like Otto Budding now has another bargaining chip in his effort to get FC to pay the full cost and then some of moving the Cincinnati Ballet's facility on Central Parkway:

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/study-noise-from-fc-cincinnati-stadium-would-disrupt-performances-rehearsals-at-music-hall?fbclid=IwAR3JCXJgF96KknsKhtN4JU2TdolaXuHFS-syrYKlFobz1nVXSSF6eXmDW1Y

That sound study is laughable. So music hall somehow manages to deal with fire and police driving right behind the building with their sirens on but they can’t deal with the 1-2 times a game a goal is scored? They act like the stadium is going to put out a continuous sound of an airplane. This is clearly all about getting something else, likely money for the ballet. 

They addressed that in the study.

 

 

I love how they describe the sound study as "sobering". Holy misplaced rhetoric here. Something that is sobering is a study that finds lead paint is more prevalent then thought,  that the chemicals used to treat our water actually cause cancer. These events warrant using the "sobering" term. What is overblown is using "sobering" to describe concert goers on a rare occasion having a low hum from soccer fans after a goal for a few brief seconds during the crescendo of Beethoven's 9th.  There will be 24 soccer games, and there will likely be a good amount during the day hours. Any overlap will be minimal.

 

I like the symphony, I used to attend a decent amount in the past, but these people need to get the stick out of their a$$es.

I've been lurking this thread for a while and as a displaced Cincinnatian living in SLC this whole thing just reeks of "only in Cincinnati".

 

I'll use our local MLS team as an example since I'm a season ticket holder and I've been going to games regularly for six years. Despite its terrible location in the suburb of Sandy (the owner of the Jazz didn't want an MLS team playing in SLC proper) there are a couple of analogous comparisons to the West End stadium in Cincinnati. The majority of parking for the stadium is permit-only so most patrons have to either take our light rail system or park in a private lot and walk a couple of blocks to the stadium. A typical Utah block is about double the size of a standard city block. When we park, our typical walk is between 10-15 minutes and ranges from .25 to .07 mile. From the nearest TRAX stop, it's a 12-minute .06 mile walk and literally thousands of fans do this for every game. Walking from TRAX or any parking to the east of the stadium requires crossing SR 89 (State St.). This is a six-lane monstrosity of a thorofare with a lane separating divider in the middle. Guess what! They don't close the street and instead just have police officers controlling the light at the corner of State and Stadium Way (which is an access road they close). Thousands of people cross State St. and there's never an issue. 

 

Adding to this is the fact that there's literally nothing to do around the stadium unless you tailgate. There aren't many restaurants to speak of so traffic in and out is at a crush volume and it works. You don't really have the option to go somewhere and hang out before and after the game like you do in Cincinnati.

 

When I see comments like, "we have to close Central Pkwy" or "People won't walk from the streetcar or other garages" I have to laugh. I live in one of the most poorly-planned anti-urban cities in the country with a population that sees single-family sprawl as morally right. If we can make it work in Salt Lake, there's no reason why FC Cincy can't have a 25,000 seat stadium and keep Central Pkwy open and let the rest of the city handle parking.

 

I'm not going to weigh in on the Music Hall issue other than to say that it seems like 12 dbs would be about as loud as a full symphony hall anyway.

I really wish FCC would stop yanking everybody around and just show us the final site plan for what they intend to build. Every time they show a rendering it does not match what was shown in previous renderings.

 

 

6 minutes ago, taestell said:

I really wish FCC would stop yanking everybody around and just show us the final site plan for what they intend to build. Every time they show a rendering it does not match what was shown in previous renderings.

 

 

 

Welcome to the world of stadium design:
DC United Rendering

  

 

Final product 

 

Yeah, roofs are expensive.  Like massively expensive.  The pair of upper deck roofs on Paul Brown Stadium was a $10 million upgrade.  They're the first thing to get chopped off a plan. 

9 minutes ago, taestell said:

I really wish FCC would stop yanking everybody around and just show us the final site plan for what they intend to build. Every time they show a rendering it does not match what was shown in previous renderings.

 

 

They don't have a final plan yet.  Wetterich later tweeted that the plans can change during the concept plan phase which they're currently in.  They can't make the development any larger then the concept city counsel approved but they can make changes to it that keep it the same size or make it smaller.  I don't think they're going to be able to make an official final plan until they have issues like the ballet parking lot and the county garage(s) figured out.  

This whole stadium debacle has been a joke from the beginning. Had the team followed any sort of normal development process, these issues related to sound, light, and traffic would have been studied and their mitigation would have been planned for. Whenever any organization tried to pump the breaks, the team and their soccer bro fanboys pitched huge fits and acted like any setback whatsoever would be catastrophic. First it was the school board, then the West End neighborhood council, now it's council and the arts organizations that call Music Hall home. This isn't a giant conspiracy against the soccer bros. You can't just plop down a professional stadium in the middle of an urban neighborhood and expect everyone to just roll over and be appreciative that the FCC overlords are bringing Cincy some 'major league clout', or whatever BS Berding the conman is spouting.

 

The thing that really pisses me off about this Music Hall situation, though, is that no one seems concerned over the noise, parking, light effects on the neighboring residents, despite the fact they will be RIGHT across the street from this thing. No one cares about noise until Otto Budig raises a fuss about the impact it will have on Music Hall. This is exactly how people of the West End were treated when I-75 was built through the heart of their neighborhood. They are seen as dispensable and unimportant, and when they actually tried to stand up for themselves by securing a CBA, they were lambasted by the team, their fans, and the media. 

 

We STILL don't even have a final site plan. The team is presenting phony renderings and site plans to frickin' city council! In what world is any of this acceptable or appropriate? The way this whole process has been allowed to play out is shameful but not surprising for Cincinnati.

Edited February 5, 20196 yr by edale

I want to advocate for some design solutions here like... building the "Future Development." I'm pretty sure that a 6-story development the entire span of Central Parkway from Liberty to Ezzard Charles would GREATLY reduce the dB's, both low and high frequency, in Music Hall. On top of this, there would be an opportunity to add density along a corridor with access to 10 bus lines (1, 6, 16, 20, 21, 46, 49, 64, 67, 78), north and south lines of the Streetcar, and a protected bike lane ALL within 2 blocks. Not only that, but to edale's point on "what about the neighbors" (like me, who lives directly across CP from the stadium site), the Future Development would do what so many in the block between Elm and CP want: block the stadium from view in OTR. I don't disagree, there are MUCH better ways to make a project happen. Still waiting and hoping for a developer to come to Cincinnati who isn't afraid of community input, or rather, knows that community input makes a project BETTER. Wow.

On 2/4/2019 at 2:23 PM, ryanlammi said:

I agree that the administration has been terrible about the Liberty Street road diet. 

 

I also think that people who are asking for the prohibition of closing CP are using the same fear tactics about gridlock that the administration is using with Liberty (and everyone is using about the Brent Spence) without using any data to back up their claims. It's a terrible way to run the city.

 

One of the reasons, if not the primary reason, that the city doesn't want to narrow Liberty Street is because closing Central Parkway to automobile traffic will force all traffic headed to I-71 and I-471 to use Liberty Street.