January 31, 20187 yr How cool would it be if you could make this a neighborhood stadium in OTR or Mt. Adams? It would have a very unique and English feel
January 31, 20187 yr How cool would it be if you could make this a neighborhood stadium in OTR or Mt. Adams? It would have a very unique and English feel Or...Wimbledon, if they'd move the tennis tournament into the city. I think they could have made a much stronger case for public funding for this project if they had planned to build a soccer stadium AND move the tournament into a combined complex.
January 31, 20187 yr How cool would it be if you could make this a neighborhood stadium in OTR or Mt. Adams? It would have a very unique and English feel Have you ever been to Mt Adams? Where would you fit a soccer stadium?????
January 31, 20187 yr How cool would it be if you could make this a neighborhood stadium in OTR or Mt. Adams? It would have a very unique and English feel I mean, if the stadium goes in The West End, it'll be right near OTR as well as a few streetcar stations.
January 31, 20187 yr How cool would it be if you could make this a neighborhood stadium in OTR or Mt. Adams? It would have a very unique and English feel Have you ever been to Mt Adams? Where would you fit a soccer stadium????? Cantilevered out over the west facing hillside with an aerial tram station integrated into it. Super easy to do and very cost effective. /sarcasm
January 31, 20187 yr How cool would it be if you could make this a neighborhood stadium in OTR or Mt. Adams? It would have a very unique and English feel The West End site is about a block from OTR.
January 31, 20187 yr How cool would it be if you could make this a neighborhood stadium in OTR or Mt. Adams? It would have a very unique and English feel The West End site is about a block from OTR. Is that a "blah-k" or a "blaw-k"? :D "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 1, 20187 yr Berding to appear at the next West End community council meeting. The article doesn't name the location or time. https://www.wcpo.com/sports/fc-cincinnati/berding-promises-to-meet-with-west-end-residents-says-stadium-wouldnt-breach-taft-high-school
February 1, 20187 yr Hey guys, how is Oakley taking this sudden tidal wave of West End news? Is there any chance they're still in contention?
February 1, 20187 yr Hey guys, how is Oakley taking this sudden tidal wave of West End news? Is there any chance they're still in contention? Many believe that FCC always wanted the West End first and foremost for obvious reasons; It's in the urban core, and is perfect for pre/post game events/fan activities due to the amount of bars/restaurants in OTR. FCC needed Oakley to submit the MLS Bid. Jeff Berding is saying that they are waiting for a traffic study, and community engagement with Oakley community council. That said, I'm sure the traffic study will not be pleasant/cheap findings, and they will use that as a opportunity to pivot fully towards the West End.
February 1, 20187 yr Berding: FC Cincinnati stadium won’t touch Taft High School If FC Cincinnati is admitted to Major League Soccer and builds a new stadium in the West End, it will not impact Taft Information Technology High School, the club’s president and general manager said in a prepared statement on Wednesday. “I understand that there are fears that FC Cincinnati’s stadium could negatively impact Taft High School. I wish to put these concerns to rest,” Berding said. “While there are several configurations that could work, none of them touch the high school building. We look forward to discussing how FC Cincinnati could support Taft High School directly in new soccer programs, new student internships, new extracurricular fundraising opportunities and other ideas as determined when we meet with CPS and Taft staff, parents and students.” More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/01/31/berding-fc-cincinnati-stadium-won-t-touch-taft.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 1, 20187 yr Hey guys, how is Oakley taking this sudden tidal wave of West End news? Is there any chance they're still in contention? Many believe that FCC always wanted the West End first and foremost for obvious reasons; It's in the urban core, and is perfect for pre/post game events/fan activities due to the amount of bars/restaurants in OTR. FCC needed Oakley to submit the MLS Bid. Jeff Berding is saying that they are waiting for a traffic study, and community engagement with Oakley community council. That said, I'm sure the traffic study will not be pleasant/cheap findings, and they will use that as a opportunity to pivot fully towards the West End. Thanks. Oakley looks like that plain girl or guy who was dumped by their sexy date, right before the prom. Glad to see this thing getting more into the city center. I hated the Oakley renders.
February 1, 20187 yr Glad to see this thing getting more into the city center. I hated the Oakley renders. Personally, I was excited because I live nearby and hoped maybe, just maybe it would start catalyzing some decent development in that part of Oakley, but WE and Newport were always far better options. I consider Oakley a city neighborhood and it's a great neighborhood, but match days were going to feel very suburban even if technically in the city limits.
February 1, 20187 yr Glad to see this thing getting more into the city center. I hated the Oakley renders. Personally, I was excited because I live nearby and hoped maybe, just maybe it would start catalyzing some decent development in that part of Oakley, but WE and Newport were always far better options. I consider Oakley a city neighborhood and it's a great neighborhood, but match days were going to feel very suburban even if technically in the city limits. I hear ya. Sounded like there were a lot of amenities there. I was concerned because I imagined ODOT would be the "urban planner" carrying the most weight. It is refreshing to see so many that recognize the stadium should actually embrace its surroundings.
February 1, 20187 yr How cool would it be if you could make this a neighborhood stadium in OTR or Mt. Adams? It would have a very unique and English feel Have you ever been to Mt Adams? Where would you fit a soccer stadium????? told you, it would have an English feel!
February 1, 20187 yr Curious, where is that? Loftus Road in London. Home of Crystal Palace. Coolest stadium I've ever been to. They had space issues so they literally stacked grandstands on top of each other vertically. Seats roughly 20,000 too.
February 1, 20187 yr Curious, where is that? Loftus Road in London. Home of Crystal Palace Queens Park Rangers. Coolest stadium I've ever been to. They had space issues so they literally stacked grandstands on top of each other vertically. Seats roughly 20,000 too. FTFY
February 1, 20187 yr How cool would it be if you could make this a neighborhood stadium in OTR or Mt. Adams? It would have a very unique and English feel Have you ever been to Mt Adams? Where would you fit a soccer stadium????? Cantilevered out over the west facing hillside with an aerial tram station integrated into it. Super easy to do and very cost effective. /sarcasm I dont see why they couldnt from a design standpoint but our predilection to landslides would be an issue. All parking along Eggleston with a tram up to Mt Addams. Sure beats the Stadiunm in a see of parking garages look. http://www.edinburgharchitecture.co.uk/images/jpgs/royal_edinburgh_military_tattoo_j090811_4.jpg
February 1, 20187 yr Curious, where is that? Loftus Road in London. Home of Crystal Palace Queens Park Rangers. Coolest stadium I've ever been to. They had space issues so they literally stacked grandstands on top of each other vertically. Seats roughly 20,000 too. FTFY Lol woops, thank you
February 1, 20187 yr Author Europe has great examples on how to squeeze in urban stadiums or how to retrofit old staidums. Serie B's Stadio Pino Zaccheria holds 25k:
February 1, 20187 yr I'm all about compact urban designs... but those examples of Loftus (450'x360') and Pino Zaccheria (560'x440' if you don't count the surface parking on the west) still require large footprints. Try putting that in Mt Adams and you'll see how laughable the idea is. Loftus is quite small (18,500 capacity) and the Queens Park Rangers have been talking for several years about moving to a new, larger stadium. So... not exactly the most ringing endorsement of facility that size. I don't think FCC should build anything smaller than 25k capacity. What makes those European stadiums charming (and that FCC should imitate) is that they're not surrounded by parking infrastructure. Buildings on surrounding streets are built right up to the stadium. For FCC, the big question will be how it interfaces with the surrounding streets and buildings. For your laughing pleasure, here is Loftus "fitting" nicely into Mt Adams:
February 1, 20187 yr Those stadiums are also extremely old and don't have the needed premium/club seating ownership needs to make money. It's way more and more big European teams are leaving their old historic grounds for newer ones.
February 1, 20187 yr Those stadiums are also extremely old and don't have the needed premium/club seating ownership needs to make money. It's way more and more big European teams are leaving their old historic grounds for newer ones. Not always because of the money issue. Some grounds are just literally 125 years old and no longer safe. Emirates Stadium in London is a good example of a modern stadium in a tightly packed residential neighborhood. As will be Spurs new stadium. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Emirates+Stadium/@51.5549775,-0.1099516,471m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x48761b7645295e3b:0x3600713c8382cf90!8m2!3d51.5548885!4d-0.108438 I do see your point tho, as Man City and others have preferred more space.
February 1, 20187 yr Author Le Parc de Princes in Paris is another example of an urban stadium: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Le+Parc+des+Princes/@48.840846,2.2503987,692m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47e67ac09948a18d:0xdd2450406cef2c5c!8m2!3d48.8414356!4d2.2530487 Of course Allianz in Munich which FCC's is based off of is built on the outskirts of town: https://www.google.com/maps/@48.21707,11.6198159,2801m/data=!3m1!1e3 I realize this is getting off topic, just interesting to me.
February 1, 20187 yr Now now now, this is an absolute no go. You cant build a soccer stadium and tear down Crowley's !!!
February 1, 20187 yr Those stadiums are also extremely old and don't have the needed premium/club seating ownership needs to make money. It's way more and more big European teams are leaving their old historic grounds for newer ones. Not always because of the money issue. Some grounds are just literally 125 years old and no longer safe. Emirates Stadium in London is a good example of a modern stadium in a tightly packed residential neighborhood. As will be Spurs new stadium. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Emirates+Stadium/@51.5549775,-0.1099516,471m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x48761b7645295e3b:0x3600713c8382cf90!8m2!3d51.5548885!4d-0.108438 I do see your point tho, as Man City and others have preferred more space. Yeah I meant more of just a bigger stadium didn't mean more space. I think the teams definitely would rather they stay in their historic neighborhoods but that's not always possible. I think it's awesome that Arsenal and Spurs built huge new stadiums but kept them in their dense neighborhoods and it's what I hope FC can do in the West End.
February 1, 20187 yr Long-time lurker. So long, in fact, that I forgot my original login. Anyway. I now live in SLC but keep abreast of the goings-on in my hometown so I thought I'd chime in here since I'm a big soccer fan and have followed FCC since the beginning. I think that if a land-swap can be worked out, the West End would easily be one of the top-three stadium sites in the league with the exception of maybe Portland and Seattle. The proximity to bars, restaurants, and other businesses plus the existence of a streetcar stop a block away and a subway tunnel nearby would be great for any future transit plans. I don't think parking is that big of an issue. If, say, the WCET building goes away, there's potential to build another underground garage and there's a rather large garage right under Washington park. With the streetcar, people can park all over town and ride to the games. I also don't think that Central Parkway is that big of a hurdle for pedestrians. Here in Salt Lake, Real Salt Lake's stadium is next to one of the main thoroughfares, the six-lane monstrosity that is State St. The vast majority of attendees have to cross State in order to see RSL play and traffic cops help alleviate that problem on game day. I think the plan will be for FCC to purchase the Stargel site and the properties to the east of Stargel up to Central Pkwy. FCC will give CPS the Citirama site for a new football/track stadium. Please excuse the poor photoshop job but here's what I think the site will look like with Red Bull Arena as a stand-in.
February 1, 20187 yr ^ I think if you rotate the plan 90 degrees and build an underground garage using central ave as access you are pretty darn close. Less property to purchase along central parkway and the rest of the stargel site could be a plaza of some sort.
February 1, 20187 yr ^No, swap the stadium and the parking/team store. The stadium will make anything right on Central Parkway much more valuable than anything facing John St., for the same price.
February 1, 20187 yr What are the demographics of the West End neighborhood? All over the place. Everything from public housing and poor retirees in the Stanley Rowe towers up to fairly wealthy professionals in "City Hall West" and City West.
February 1, 20187 yr ^ Yeah, but the vast majority is very poor and black. It used to have one of the largest concentrations of projects in the country before a lot of them got torn down and replaced with some mixed income housing that still skews heavily towards the subsidized side. There are several little mini neighborhoods in the West End: Here's the Citywest area, which is pretty large actually: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1111927,-84.5262286,3a,75y,292.14h,73.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1supybDLiS9evptnHaPf9X0g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1070401,-84.5263435,3a,75y,278.92h,95.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sI2S2zQKanTaWU-zopbRcSg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 There are some pockets that are turning around, and some absolutely beautiful blocks exist, especially around the Dayton Street area: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1182383,-84.5280041,3a,75y,74.79h,89.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sujvOLuCmBQ28ZUXWt7I9og!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 Other parts look super run down and ghetto: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1155386,-84.5278068,3a,75y,253.91h,97.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stTHpegGwJd30QGlQSXO7qg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1150283,-84.5297098,3a,75y,217.19h,90.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sx7C_L1K_OEXZFtCKux7--g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 I'm not sure if this is technically still part of the West End, but idk what else it would be. Very charming and old portion of the neighborhood, that is home to mostly professional types: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1076226,-84.5218478,3a,75y,252.96h,78.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjQIktR5puwQZ4YFp9-30hA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@39.106975,-84.5218765,3a,75y,309.97h,87.24t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQAlkjYWOc8bLgijIu0hwoQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
February 1, 20187 yr Don't forget Ollie's Trolley: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1133696,-84.5228031,3a,75y,333.42h,89.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spJ1ZWyBUAg8l7AaPsBb4sA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 Also, unlike OTR, there are plenty of spaces for very large multifamilies to be built: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ollie's+Trolley/@39.1144312,-84.5263908,275m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8841b400bb290909:0xb18a3795e0037e11!8m2!3d39.1134761!4d-84.522893
February 1, 20187 yr ^ The West End is also one of only a handful of Cincinnati neighborhoods to be home to a team of horses: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1154466,-84.5265731,3a,65.6y,151.32h,87.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s89OIgVNuy-p50LWeZbYhRA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
February 1, 20187 yr Author 2010 census: West End has 6,200 people. 5,800 are black. The largest household income amount is $10,000 or less a year with 1,585 people. The median household income was $12,808. https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/planning/linkservid/B57F68CC-CCF3-D8D6-DD5FB883EA12E1D0/showMeta/0/
February 1, 20187 yr Here is another view of the horses: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1148214,-84.5268169,3a,75y,31.97h,97.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sm_BwwjdVaiaYdrOyTWw8PA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 Watch -- the anti-gentrification crowd will fight the displacement of the horses.
February 1, 20187 yr 2010 census: West End has 6,200 people. 5,800 are black. The largest household income amount is $10,000 or less a year with 1,585 people. The median household income was $12,808. https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/planning/linkservid/B57F68CC-CCF3-D8D6-DD5FB883EA12E1D0/showMeta/0/ I've been living in the Dayton St District for 3 years now. These demographics from 2010 have changed quite a bit since then. Regardless of your view on gentrification, this neighborhood is changing with or without a soccer stadium. I've seen several middle class families move into what used to be vacant boarded up buildings just 3 short years ago. The spillover from overpriced areas of OTR and the desire to live downtown may be fueling this trend way more than a stadium will.
February 1, 20187 yr While we are posting West End landmarks, I sure hope that if a stadium is built that some useful purpose can be thought of for this beauty. https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1078169,-84.5277354,3a,41.5y,305h,101.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHvy_ZvgXhRJFeeGYp2I0LQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
February 1, 20187 yr Here is another view of the horses: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1148214,-84.5268169,3a,75y,31.97h,97.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sm_BwwjdVaiaYdrOyTWw8PA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 Watch -- the anti-gentrification crowd will fight the displacement of the horses. I wouldn't be surprised to see something like The Greater Cincinnati Coalition for the Horses spring up at some point, when the real estate values are high enough to threaten the stables. Maybe 3CDC will offer to build a much nicer, larger facility in Queensgate as a compromise. This facility is so close to downtown because these are the horses that pull the little Cinderalla carriages around. They walk down to Fountain Square from the stables every day around 5 or 6. I usually pass them as I'm going the other way up Central Avenue. I've never understood the appeal of carriage rides, the horses almost always smell like poop.
February 1, 20187 yr While we are posting West End landmarks, I sure hope that if a stadium is built that some useful purpose can be thought of for this beauty. https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1078169,-84.5277354,3a,41.5y,305h,101.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHvy_ZvgXhRJFeeGYp2I0LQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en Let's be honest, if the stadium is built in the West End, this old theatre will be a brewery within 3 years.
February 1, 20187 yr Here is another view of the horses: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1148214,-84.5268169,3a,75y,31.97h,97.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sm_BwwjdVaiaYdrOyTWw8PA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 Watch -- the anti-gentrification crowd will fight the displacement of the horses. I wouldn't be surprised to see something like The Greater Cincinnati Coalition for the Horses spring up at some point, when the real estate values are high enough to threaten the stables. Maybe 3CDC will offer to build a much nicer, larger facility in Queensgate as a compromise. This facility is so close to downtown because these are the horses that pull the little Cinderalla carriages around. They walk down to Fountain Square from the stables every day around 5 or 6. I usually pass them as I'm going the other way up Central Avenue. I've never understood the appeal of carriage rides, the horses almost always smell like poop. I feel like most big cities have outlawed them. On top of it not being great for the horses it does make the entire area smell. I would be very happy if they went away.
February 2, 20187 yr Take a ride in a golf cart? "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
February 2, 20187 yr Enquirer drone flies over THE WRONG SPOT in the West End: https://www.cincinnati.com/videos/aerial-journalism/2018/02/01/video-fly-over-fc-cincys-proposed-stadium-sites/109986702/
February 2, 20187 yr Enquirer drone flies over THE WRONG SPOT in the West End: https://www.cincinnati.com/videos/aerial-journalism/2018/02/01/video-fly-over-fc-cincys-proposed-stadium-sites/109986702/ Too busy playing with their cool new toy to bother filming the correct location.
February 2, 20187 yr How serious is FC Cincinnati about the West End? The club hired Mark Mallory to do outreach https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2018/02/02/how-serious-fc-cincinnati-west-end-club-hired-mark-mallory-do-outreach/300304002/
February 2, 20187 yr That seems like a pretty big deal considering how little Mallory and Berding got along during their time at City Hall
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