If West End residents keep acting like children at Community Council meetings, they’re going to miss their opportunity to have any input into the community benefits agreement. CPS will just do the land swap deal and that’ll be it.

If West End residents keep acting like children at Community Council meetings, they’re going to miss their opportunity to have any input into the community benefits agreement. CPS will just do the land swap deal and that’ll be it.

 

If I've said it once, I've said it 1,000 times. NIMBYs gonna NIMBY

Sure, but if they act like adults and make reasonable requests, they might succeed at having their voices heard. If they say, “go away, we don’t want you here,” they’ll get steamrolled.

The neighborhood will be very different in 10 years no matter if this stadium is built or not.  There is nothing out there stopping developers from buying the many vacant parcels that dot the neighborhood and putting up new homes and new apartment buildings other than current lukewarm demand.  In five years OTR will be mostly built-out and new construction will be much cheaper on the West End's flat lots as opposed to the undeveloped hillsides. 

 

The neighborhood will be very different in 10 years no matter if this stadium is built or not.  There is nothing out there stopping developers from buying the many vacant parcels that dot the neighborhood and putting up new homes and new apartment buildings other than current lukewarm demand.  In five years OTR will be mostly built-out and new construction will be much cheaper on the West End's flat lots as opposed to the undeveloped hillsides. 

 

 

Without the stadium, redevelopment will take longer however it will start with rehabs and infill between John and Central south of Liberty as well as parts of Brighton. After 5-10 years that momentum will start to filter south of Bank Street and north of City West. The final piece will be the demolition of everything west of Linn Street. If CMHA moves forward with demolishing Stanley Rowe towers, it will have an impact on that area as well. With the stadium, all of this just happens faster and may likely be more commercialized.

Fearing displacement, residents continue to be skeptical of West End FC Cincinnati stadium

 

Earnestine Hill, a 15-year resident of Cincinnati’s West End, said she has been afraid as she has heard about FC Cincinnati’s idea for locating a new Major League Soccer Stadium in the neighborhood.

 

“What I’m scared of is I don’t own a home,” she told the Cincinnati Public Schools board on Wednesday night. “I’m going to have to leave if they say go. They need something in place … when someone like them come through, we protect ourselves.”

 

It was a concern that came up over and over again at the latest public hearing on the club’s potential stadium. Most speakers who were residents questioned or spoke against the stadium although a handful spoke in favor of it.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/02/21/fearing-displacement-residents-continue-to-be.html

The CPS BOE, which has an entire webpage dedicated to FC Cincinnati (https://www.cps-k12.org/about-cps/board-of-education/FCC-proposal), is seeking input from EVERYONE (Survey Monkey).

 

Survey Reguarding FC Cincinnati's Proposal

 

The Cincinnati Public School District Board of Education wants to hear from you about the proposed development of the Football Club Cincinnati Stadium in the West End. FC Cincinnati has proposed building a new Stargel Stadium on property adjacent to Taft IT High School, in order to utilize the land currently occupied by Stargel Stadium for a new FC Cincinnati soccer stadium.

 

The Board of Education values your input and responses — thanks for taking the time to give us your feedback.

 

Take the Survey

 

 

Cincinnati NAACP: Members vote no on soccer stadium in West End

 

No soccer stadium in the West End, so say members of the Cincinnati NAACP chapter.

 

The local civil rights organization voted Thursday night at its monthly membership meeting to take a "no" position on the proposed Futbal Club Cincinnati stadium behind Taft IT High School on Ezzard Charles Drive.

 

"We believe a soccer stadium in the West End would expedite the further gentrification of another black neighborhood," the organization stated in a text message to The Enquirer. "We want to make it clear we are not against progress, nor or we against soccer.

 

Cont

Stargel Stadium is not located in the "heart" of the West End.  It is on the edge of the neighborhood.  The Oakley stadium site is on the edge of Oakley.  The Newport stadium site is on the edge of Newport. 

 

https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/can-fc-cincinnati-convince-west-end-a-stadium-deal-will-work

 

The "heart" of the West End is arguably Linn & Liberty.  That's a long walk from this stadium site.  Most of the west end's residents live west of that point, between Linn and I-75. 

According to the Business Courier's reporter Steve Watkins on Twitter, FC Cincinnati is now "reaching out to the Oakley neighborhood about a potential new stadium." I don't think this means they're abandoning the West End location, just that they need to actively work on a Plan B.

 

I think FCC's ownership thought that they would just walk in and be greeted as heroes for wanting to make such a large "investment in the community" and are quite shocked that people are skeptical.

^

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/02/26/fc-cincinnati-to-present-traffic-study-results-to.html

I don't mean to sound negative, but I am over this new proposed stadium. I really wanted FC to become an MLS team but the city is showing its true colors and while there is a constant road blocks everywhere, Sacramento is lining up new billionaire investors. Plus lets be honest the Newport site is not a bad site, but the anti Kentucky crowd rather go without MLS then have the stadium on the other side of the River.

It's funny to me how FCC supporters expected this new stadium to just sail through without any major opposition. This is the city where a loud group of people opposed the renovation of Fountain Square because they would no longer be able to see the fountain from their car when they drive by. This is the city where we spent a decade debating and voted twice on the first phase of our streetcar system. Cincinnatians are extremely skeptical of any new idea, and if you want it to happen, you have to fight for years and years to make it happen.

 

Also, I keep hearing people say that "the NKY site is a done deal, and if FCC's owners wanted, they could just build it there," but I have seen no actual evidence of this. I don't remember seeing any articles about Newport or Campbell County putting forward money to build the infrastructure, agreeing to give the stadium tax breaks, etc.

Some people who know nothing about politics are also sports fans. Though I don't think most people expected a stadium to sail through without major opposition. Most people I've talked to understand how stubborn our city will be about a stadium being built.

 

The loudest people on the Internet are often the least informed. So take Twitter and Facebook comments with a grain of salt.

 

As for Newport site, I don't know how easy it will be to build there, but from my understanding, the development group already received a TIF (or the equivalent of that) for the site, and the developer just needs to get something built to get that money going. From my understanding, they wouldn't need any additional funds from the state, city, or county to build the stadium. But I haven't delved into the weeds on this.

Here is the Newport TIF in question: http://thinkkentucky.com/kyedc/pdfs/TIFProjects.pdf?07062017

If MLS wants FCC and is cool with the Oakley site, what is the hold-up?

The proposed state capital budget includes $4 million for an FC Cincinnati stadium.

I doubt the MLS is cool with the oakley site.  The "Leadership" is stuck in provincial thinking mode, I'm pretty sure MLS will respond with a big WTF if they present that plan again.  May jeopordize Cincinnati from getting the team...

If MLS wants FCC and is cool with the Oakley site, what is the hold-up?

 

No one would be okay with the Oakley site.

Except for dumb lifelong Cincinnatians who are politicians who want to feed their base - eastsiders who love Oakley even the suburban garbage.

MLS approved all 3 sites about a year ago. The hold up with Oakley was the traffic study and FCC's desire to have the stadium in the West End. The traffic study is now complete and Jeff Berding is set to present it to Oakley CC next week. Also, it should be clear that FCC wants the West End and Oakley is their second option.

It's pretty obvious that MLS is not going to award the team until it's set in stone that a stadium is happening in Cincinnati.  As a blogger pointed out several months ago, MLS knows that Cincinnati already has a perfectly good stadium and they're not going to risk awarding a franchise only to have it continue to play at Nippert for five more years. 

There's no reason to worry about the IRS site when FCC apparently has a deal done in Newport. Federal government site sales can take years (see Fort Thomas Tower Park homes). There's been a vocal group FCC fans against KY since day one (including booing Newport when it was announced as a possibility). I'd say at this point FCC will try from WE then Oakley then their fall back is Newport.

 

I think the IRS site has several advantages over the Newport site. It’s larger- looking at the Newport site after they completed that new highway, a stadium looks like it would be a tight fit. IRS site would probably be easier road/highway access as well. Plus closer proximity access to the Banks parking/ amenities like I mentioned before, and synergies with NKY convention center & Covington’s small CBD & huge parking garage/transit center there. Don’t know how the IRS site could be added to the discussion at this point without people losing their minds though.

 

The people automatically rejecting a NKY site because “but it’s not Cincinnaaaatiiiiii” are making a juvenile point that  shouldn’t be listened to in this discussion. It’s a fake trade-off in a discussion with lots of real trade-offs.

It's pretty obvious that MLS is not going to award the team until it's set in stone that a stadium is happening in Cincinnati.  As a blogger pointed out several months ago, MLS knows that Cincinnati already has a perfectly good stadium and they're not going to risk awarding a franchise only to have it continue to play at Nippert for five more years. 

 

This is spot on.

 

The people automatically rejecting a NKY site because “but it’s not Cincinnaaaatiiiiii” are making a juvenile point that  shouldn’t be listened to in this discussion. It’s a fake trade-off in a discussion with lots of real trade-offs.

The point is a valid one to make because it's the opinion the owners of the team have.  They will not put the stadium in NKY unless it's their last and only option. 

The Enquirer shot new drone footage of the West End stadium site...except they got the site wrong for the second time:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics-extra/2018/03/05/px-column-mayor-cranley-believes-fc-cincinnatis-mls-bid-stadium-deal-done-mid-april/390099002/

I think todays Oakley Community Council meeting proved that FCC doesn't want Oakley/not first priority.

 

Every presented today was lackluster, and lacked actual info. The only interesting tidbit was that an extension of edwards rd will not be needed to make oakley stadium work. No other hard numbers were presented.

 

Oakley was picked at the end of november. FCC had almost 4 months to do a traffic study, and all the other related studies..and so far all we have is that one tidbit of info.

 

I feel that it's safe to say West End is FCC priority. If somehow falls through, I'm guessing Newport will be immediate backup choice. I think FO have realized that Oakley just sucks as a location, and that's why they are taking time with fleshing out the oakley details.

 

The people automatically rejecting a NKY site because “but it’s not Cincinnaaaatiiiiii” are making a juvenile point that  shouldn’t be listened to in this discussion. It’s a fake trade-off in a discussion with lots of real trade-offs.

The point is a valid one to make because it's the opinion the owners of the team have.  They will not put the stadium in NKY unless it's their last and only option. 

 

Unless they’re getting a sweetheart deal in Newport and this whole delay is just theater to make the anti-KY FCC fans think that they might lose their chance at MLS so that they’ll acquiesce instead of pitching a fit when the team jumps over the river.

I guarantee they aren't playing a game to make people appreciate Newport more. If they really wanted to go to Newport the whole time, they would have pulled the trigger and gone all in. Almost everyone would already be ok with it even if it wasn't their favorite. I think they want the West End, and they want Cincinnati. Their biggest decision will be if they want Cincinnati enough to go to Oakley over Newport (which I view as a better site) just to stay in the city proper if West End falls through.

Cincinnati might cost itself an MLS franchise in the near-term. This is frustrating to watch even from far away.

 

Hope they get their act together. FCC has a terrific following

I don't think the stadium stuff is the holdup with MLS. Granted, I don't know what the holdup is, but I'm sure MLS could place prohibitively expensive penalties in the expansion agreement if they can't get a stadium built by a certain time frame.

http://www.dispatch.com/news/20180305/ohio-columbus-suing-to-keep-crew-sc-from-moving-to-austin

 

Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine and the city of Columbus are taking the owner of the Columbus Crew SC and Major League Soccer to court in an attempt to keep them from ditching town in favor of Austin, Texas.

 

The lawsuit filed Monday in the Franklin County Common Pleas Court seeks to invoke a 1996 law enacted after Art Modell moved the Cleveland Browns to Baltimore, where the team was renamed the Ravens. The law says that no professional team that gets public assistance or uses public facilities can leave town without giving six months notice and giving locals an opportunity to buy the team.

 

No league is going to touch Ohio until the this legal issue is figured out. I think the MLS has been blindsided by this, and it's put both the Crew relocation and Cincinnati expansion plans on hold. The commentary I've seen makes it sound like the 1996 law is on shakey ground constitutionally, but it might be upheld. Some are even speculating its a case the US Supreme Court would be interested in. Either way, the hearing isn't until next year, which creates a lot of uncertainty. The other Big 4 leagues will probably help MLS and Crew Ownership defend this case, since if the law is upheld it affects teams in each of their leagues. It could also set a precedent for other states to enact similar laws.

FC Cincinnati traffic study shows Oakley changes as residents sound off

 

New results of a traffic study show that an FC Cincinnati soccer stadium in Oakley would require the addition of lanes at four intersections approaching the stadium. It also envisions a 28,000-seat stadium, which is larger than what FC Cincinnati has been previously discussing. And many Oakley residents favor bringing the stadium to their neighborhood.

 

Those were among the developments as Jeff Berding, FC Cincinnati’s president and general manager, presented the traffic study results and listened to feedback on Monday night at an Oakley Community Council town-hall-style meeting held at MadTree Brewery. Oakley is one of three prospective sites for a soccer-specific stadium FC Cincinnati will build if it wins a Major League Soccer expansion franchise. The West End and Newport are other sites FC Cincinnati is considering.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/03/05/fc-cincinnati-traffic-study-shows-oakley-changes.html

If they really wanted to go to Newport the whole time, they would have pulled the trigger and gone all in. Almost everyone would already be ok with it even if it wasn't their favorite.

 

There were some VERY vocal fans against locating in Newport, simply because it's KY.  They may not want to do anything that is going to upset their fans at this stage since most of the story they tell is based on having so many fervent supporters after only 2 years of existence.  The internet is an ugly place, and our region as a whole needs to improve regarding collaboration and viewing all of us on the same team.  Our pathetic transit system with multiple entities is evidence enough of that.

 

No league is going to touch Ohio until the this legal issue is figured out. I think the MLS has been blindsided by this, and it's put both the Crew relocation and Cincinnati expansion plans on hold. The commentary I've seen makes it sound like the 1996 law is on shakey ground constitutionally, but it might be upheld. Some are even speculating its a case the US Supreme Court would be interested in. Either way, the hearing isn't until next year, which creates a lot of uncertainty. The other Big 4 leagues will probably help MLS and Crew Ownership defend this case, since if the law is upheld it affects teams in each of their leagues. It could also set a precedent for other states to enact similar laws.

 

Interesting point.  But if they're really that concerned about it, MLS could just sidestep that by insisting on Newport and that everything involving FCC be based in KY except for the team name.

"and our region as a whole needs to improve regarding collaboration and viewing all of us on the same team". THIS, there are 400,000 people in NKY and most of us think we are part of Cincinnati but the feeling is rarely mutual. I think FC in Newport would help bridge that gap socially, and I even noticed some of that this year with UC playing at NKU. Most people on the far East side use 471 to get home from downtown anyway, and nearly everyone has been to the aquarium and NOTL, so it's not like it should be that foreign to people.

"and our region as a whole needs to improve regarding collaboration and viewing all of us on the same team". THIS, there are 400,000 people in NKY and most of us think we are part of Cincinnati but the feeling is rarely mutual.

 

You mean ~450,000 :D!

So question....

 

Berding has gone on record saying multiple times that mixed retail would be included with the west end site. He wants to bring in a grocery store, laundromat, pharmacy, along with bars and restaurants. Essentially a small little wrigglyville that would be adjacent to the stadium.

 

With that said, where would this be situated? Is there any available land by central park way, or in proximity to the stadium where a large mixed use project can occur?

http://www.dispatch.com/news/20180305/ohio-columbus-suing-to-keep-crew-sc-from-moving-to-austin

 

Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine and the city of Columbus are taking the owner of the Columbus Crew SC and Major League Soccer to court in an attempt to keep them from ditching town in favor of Austin, Texas.

 

The lawsuit filed Monday in the Franklin County Common Pleas Court seeks to invoke a 1996 law enacted after Art Modell moved the Cleveland Browns to Baltimore, where the team was renamed the Ravens. The law says that no professional team that gets public assistance or uses public facilities can leave town without giving six months notice and giving locals an opportunity to buy the team.

 

No league is going to touch Ohio until the this legal issue is figured out. I think the MLS has been blindsided by this, and it's put both the Crew relocation and Cincinnati expansion plans on hold. The commentary I've seen makes it sound like the 1996 law is on shakey ground constitutionally, but it might be upheld. Some are even speculating its a case the US Supreme Court would be interested in. Either way, the hearing isn't until next year, which creates a lot of uncertainty. The other Big 4 leagues will probably help MLS and Crew Ownership defend this case, since if the law is upheld it affects teams in each of their leagues. It could also set a precedent for other states to enact similar laws.

 

MLS could avoid this concern altogether by convincing FC Cincinnati to locate their stadium in Newport.

FC Cincinnati wants stadium site selected by month's end

http://www.wlwt.com/article/fc-cincinnati-wants-stadium-site-selected-by-months-end/19141508

 

Before April arrives, FC Cincinnati wants a single stadium site selected.

 

That was made clear this afternoon by team CEO and President Jeff Berding.

 

"We like all three sites," said Berding shortly after he met with stakeholders in the West End this morning. "And we look forward to, by the end of this month, hopefully, having one site instead of three sites."

 

----------------

 

Of course, I think we all want this, but who knows. I still don't see it going to Newport. They've put so much energy into having built in Cincinnati.

So question....

 

Berding has gone on record saying multiple times that mixed retail would be included with the west end site. He wants to bring in a grocery store, laundromat, pharmacy, along with bars and restaurants. Essentially a small little wrigglyville that would be adjacent to the stadium.

 

With that said, where would this be situated? Is there any available land by central park way, or in proximity to the stadium where a large mixed use project can occur?

 

They're not going to get a grocery store, laundromat, etc into this space. I think you're reading into his comments a way he didn't intend. I think he said that he wanted these things in the neighborhood, too, but never said the FCC development would necessarily bring these things on their own. He said they would likely have a small bar/brewery, a bank branch, and maybe a couple of other things. They aren't developing a full neighborhood. Most of the businesses would likely line Central Parkway or Liberty.

Of course, I think we all want this, but who knows. I still don't see it going to Newport. They've put so much energy into having built in Cincinnati.

 

Remember how random it was when they jumped from Oakley to the West End?

Of course, I think we all want this, but who knows. I still don't see it going to Newport. They've put so much energy into having built in Cincinnati.

 

Remember how random it was when they jumped from Oakley to the West End?

 

It wasn't random at all. They initially announced three potential sites: Oakley, West End, and Newport. From the beginning the West End has been in consideration. They had to get a site nailed down for the MLS bid, so all of their focus was on Oakley, which was the easiest in Cincinnati to get done in time.

 

Then, they switched their attention to the West End, which is a more complicated project. Can you imagine if they tried to get the West End deal done in a single month with a hard deadline? They would never have gotten that done.

Of course, I think we all want this, but who knows. I still don't see it going to Newport. They've put so much energy into having built in Cincinnati.

 

Remember how random it was when they jumped from Oakley to the West End?

 

No, I remember them talking about all 3 sites for over a year but especially being focused on Oakley and WE. They were working on getting the properties in place in the WE all year as I think Jake would occasionally post about before going public. They needed a site to present to MLS and they chose Oakley because they didn't have everything in place for the WE yet. They could have easily present Newport in December and be done with it.

Of course, I think we all want this, but who knows. I still don't see it going to Newport. They've put so much energy into having built in Cincinnati.

 

Remember how random it was when they jumped from Oakley to the West End?

 

It wasn't random at all. They initially announced three potential sites: Oakley, West End, and Newport. From the beginning the West End has been in consideration. They had to get a site nailed down for the MLS bid, so all of their focus was on Oakley, which was the easiest in Cincinnati to get done in time.

 

Then, they switched their attention to the West End, which is a more complicated project. Can you imagine if they tried to get the West End deal done in a single month with a hard deadline? They would never have gotten that done.

 

I personally never understood why a "deal" wasn't being pushed for after the sites were announced, but it seems to be that certain politicians wanted to keep that until after the local election. Interesting who was for it before, became against it after getting re-elected, and who uses it as an opportunity to bolster their supposed "i listen to all sides and I'm your guy" approach.

Of course, I think we all want this, but who knows. I still don't see it going to Newport. They've put so much energy into having built in Cincinnati.

 

Remember how random it was when they jumped from Oakley to the West End?

 

It wasn't random at all. They initially announced three potential sites: Oakley, West End, and Newport. From the beginning the West End has been in consideration. They had to get a site nailed down for the MLS bid, so all of their focus was on Oakley, which was the easiest in Cincinnati to get done in time.

 

Then, they switched their attention to the West End, which is a more complicated project. Can you imagine if they tried to get the West End deal done in a single month with a hard deadline? They would never have gotten that done.

 

I can imagine them spending the year-plus they had knowing the deadline (which apparently wasn't so hard anyway) in order to get the West End deal done.

 

You guys are using post-hoc reasoning for the switch to the West End site, like it was known all along that they were going to do that after securing the Oakley funding. The projected appearance at the time was that they were leaning hard towards the Oakley site. We speculated that they could switch, but that was just speculation. I don't recall seeing any solid info on real estate dealings in the West End prior to the focus switching off of Oakley.

 

Until after the election, the most solid indication of their intentions was the release of the Newport site rendering.

 

I think it's clear they prefer the West End site, but if the neighborhood and/or CPS somehow thwart the money machine, it's not at all obvious Newport won't come up again.

Nashville didn't play this game.  They said they were going to use the fairgrounds and they did.  They were able to do this because they had all of the politicians locked up and it wasn't an election year (Mayor Berry just resigned this week, though). 

 

This whole song and dance from FC Cincinnati was because the MLS expansion overlapped a mayor/council election year.  This was all to protect Cranley.  If Simpson and Richardson had defeated Cranley in the May 2017 primary, they would have used the stadium issue to damage those candidates and make them powerless during their time in office. 

 

The soccer stadium is going to be built in the West End.  It was always going to be built in the West End.  The only item up in the air is the replacement of Stargel Stadium.  We  might very well see Citirama restored AND FC retain the option to purchase the Laurel Homes lots.   

 

The other possibility I could see is FC pulling off a nasty switcheroo where they get the high school stadium built somewhere else in the city, but then build the soccer stadium on the proposed Citirama site and then develop the existing Stargel Stadium site. 

 

I suspect this because the vaguely proposed redevelopment of the WCET studios, including a new parking garage, is better in line with the Citirama site.  There is one half-historic block separating the stadium from the studios, and Cranley won't hesitate to knock down those row homes. 

The soccer stadium is going to be built in the West End.  It was always going to be built in the West End.  The only item up in the air is the replacement of Stargel Stadium.  We  might very well see Citirama restored AND FC retain the option to purchase the Laurel Homes lots.   

 

The shadiest part of this situation is the way that the Mayor and the previous lame duck City Council passed the Oakley plan, knowing full well that Oakley was not their #1 pick. It was not until the Oakley stadium site was approved that public discussion started happening about the West End site. The Oakley plan was only passed to establish the starting point for the negotiations.

I hate how the shadiness of this whole episode has damaged my enthusiasm as a fan. I don't know the extent to which it will affect my attendance, but the team sure feels dirty right now.

The soccer stadium is going to be built in the West End.  It was always going to be built in the West End.  The only item up in the air is the replacement of Stargel Stadium.  We  might very well see Citirama restored AND FC retain the option to purchase the Laurel Homes lots.   

 

The shadiest part of this situation is the way that the Mayor and the previous lame duck City Council passed the Oakley plan, knowing full well that Oakley was not their #1 pick. It was not until the Oakley stadium site was approved that public discussion started happening about the West End site. The Oakley plan was only passed to establish the starting point for the negotiations.

 

The Oakley plan was passed to get a place holder so that they could be a finalist for the bid. THey did not have enough time to secure the West End site so Oakley had to stand in because it was the path of least resistance.  Oakley allowed them to secure the tax and infrastructure money to show MLS they had the funding in place for the stadium.  I have no problem with why they approached it this way. It is just part of the process of doing business in the development world.