These deadlines don't mean anything because Cincinnati's ownership is the only bid with what MLS wants -- a stadium location in the center of its respective city.  The skyline visible on TV in a similar way to baseball and the symbolism of the sport having "arrived" by a city capitulating to the wants of the ownership and the league.  Symbolically it puts soccer on the same level as baseball and football. 

 

Yvette Simpson's resounding victory in the may 2017 mayoral primary might have been the event that motivated Lindner to push the fight for the west end site to 2018. 

 

And instead of calling it the "West End site", they should have called it the "Central Parkway" site. 

 

These deadlines don't mean anything because Cincinnati's ownership is the only bid with what MLS wants -- a stadium location in the center of its respective city.  The skyline visible on TV in a similar way to baseball and the symbolism of the sport having "arrived" by a city capitulating to the wants of the ownership and the league.  Symbolically it puts soccer on the same level as baseball and football. 

 

Yvette Simpson's resounding victory in the may 2017 mayoral primary might have been the event that motivated Lindner to push the fight for the west end site to 2018. 

 

And instead of calling it the "West End site", they should have called it the "Central Parkway" site. 

 

 

Sacramento and Detroit both have all of those aspects that you mentioned FCC having.

Sacramento's ownership isn't rich enough and Detroit doesn't have a soccer specific stadium. At the end of all this you'll see FCC announce a stadium location with the MLS right behind announcing FCC as the next expansion team

Sacramento's ownership isn't rich enough and Detroit doesn't have a soccer specific stadium. At the end of all this you'll see FCC announce a stadium location with the MLS right behind announcing FCC as the next expansion team

 

And neither of those were mentioned by the person I responded to. I was just point out that the factors that person was claiming to be unique to Cincy, are actually not unique to Cincy.

 

Also, I really don't know why you, or any other FCC fan would be so certain that they are getting in. This is far from a done deal. If it was a done deal, it would have been announced months ago like Nashville.

 

Part of the hold up could be related to the Crew situation. There are fairly credible rumors going around that a potential local investors group met with MLS last week to talk about buying the team, and they apparently have plans for a new stadium. I wouldn't put it past MLS to be so stupid that they would be approaching this as "Columbus or Cincy, but not both".

If they get the stadium figured out FC is 100% in.  Until they get the stadium figured out though MLS will not announce them.  I'm not nearly as confident as Jake that they'll get the West End site finalized.  It's very clear they do not want to go to Newport and they will not settle for Newport until MLS tells them they have to. 

If they get the stadium figured out FC is 100% in.  Until they get the stadium figured out though MLS will not announce them.  I'm not nearly as confident as Jake that they'll get the West End site finalized.  It's very clear they do not want to go to Newport and they will not settle for Newport until MLS tells them they have to. 

 

I think it's pretty clear at this point that the league is using Cincinnati's bid as leverage against current and future expansions.  If Cincinnati (and to a similar extent Nashville) can get the purpose-built stadium built near the downtown, then they can demand it from the bigger markets (i.e. Detroit).  That is why MLS is being patient. 

 

And again, why not change the name of this site to the "Central Parkway" stadium?  Completely remove "west end" from the conversation, since it appears that half or even less than half of the stadium footprint will actually be, technically, in the West End.  Per the auditor, the technical border of OTR and West End is Providence St., not Central Parkway or Central Ave. 

 

 

If they get the stadium figured out FC is 100% in.  Until they get the stadium figured out though MLS will not announce them.  I'm not nearly as confident as Jake that they'll get the West End site finalized.  It's very clear they do not want to go to Newport and they will not settle for Newport until MLS tells them they have to. 

 

I think it's pretty clear at this point that the league is using Cincinnati's bid as leverage against current and future expansions.  If Cincinnati (and to a similar extent Nashville) can get the purpose-built stadium built near the downtown, then they can demand it from the bigger markets (i.e. Detroit).  That is why MLS is being patient. 

 

And again, why not change the name of this site to the "Central Parkway" stadium?  Completely remove "west end" from the conversation, since it appears that half or even less than half of the stadium footprint will actually be, technically, in the West End.  Per the auditor, the technical border of OTR and West End is Providence St., not Central Parkway or Central Ave. 

 

 

 

Yeah but the City's Planning Department says otherwise: https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/planning/linkservid/B57F68CC-CCF3-D8D6-DD5FB883EA12E1D0/showMeta/0/

CPS will have an executive session this Wednesday about WE Stadium, apperantly linked with an incoming cranley announcement in the next day or 2.

 

 

 

 

Yeah but the City's Planning Department says otherwise: https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/planning/linkservid/B57F68CC-CCF3-D8D6-DD5FB883EA12E1D0/showMeta/0/

 

I think the 'approximation' part of that map title is true since the houses on the west side of Mcmicken have always been part of CUF as a neighborhood and in the West McMicken improvement association as a street/block group. Not sure what neighborhood that is that starts at ravine either as the Clifton Heights part of CUF went all the way up to Vine St before becoming Mt Auburn. Not sure how 'approximate' the west end part is or why planning would even distribute an 'approximate' map. Just leads to more chaos.

 

It looks like the Planning Department uses full census blocks when designating neighborhood boundaries, whereas the auditor doesn't. Does the auditor use the rear property line of properties on a certain street as the border, rather than the street itself? What do they use the "appraisal area" for, anyway? For comparable sales?

 

Then, of course, there's the community councils definitions, which are sometimes wildly out of line with every other authority.

Tweet from Chris Wetterich:

 

Interesting statement from FC Cincinnati tonight. Oakley deemed not a good fit, don’t have a site development/financing plan in Newport, still working on West End.

Latest on FC Cincinnati site selection: Oakley down, no Newport deal, West End still on the table

 

 

A new statement from FC Cincinnati casts doubt on the team putting a Major League Soccer stadium in Oakley or Newport and said talks about the West End site continue.

 

“Experience shows that successful MLS teams have stadiums in the urban core. While we believe in Oakley, it is not as close to the urban core as desired,” said Jeff Berding, FC Cincinnati’s president. “[W]e do not believe Oakley is the best fit for a move into MLS at this time.”

 

The team had set a March 31 deadline to pick a site, but, like other deadlines, it came and went. Berding’s latest statement was aimed at explaining to the public why it had not opted for Oakley or Newport “since the West End lacked necessary political support.”

 

The statement also said that the club had been unable so far to reach a deal with Corporex, the owner of the Ovation site in Newport, to finance and develop that site.

 

“In Newport, we would happily build our stadium at the Ovation site, and appreciate all the support from the business, civic and neighborhood communities in Northern Kentucky,” the statement said. “However, we have not been able to reach agreement on site development and financing plans with Corporex.”

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/04/05/latest-on-fc-cincinnati-site-selection-oakley-down.html

“[W]e do not believe Oakley is the best fit for a move into MLS at this time.”

 

So they're finally saying what everybody on this forum has known all along. MLS wants a stadium in a walkable urban area, and Oakley (at this specific site) doesn't meet that requirement.

 

 

“In Newport, [...] we have not been able to reach agreement on site development and financing plans with Corporex.”

 

So, all of the people who have been saying, "Cincinnati's going to blow it and we're going to lose the team to Kentucky! FCC already has the Newport plan in place and they don't need any other approvals, it's ready to go" ... turns out, not so much.

 

 

“We have worked for nearly three months in the West End, engaging neighborhood stakeholders, CPS, elected officials and others in a variety of public meetings and private discussions. While we have yet to achieve necessary political support to advance plans for a privately financed stadium in the West End, we continue to engage elected leaders in Cincinnati to build a winning partnership here in the city.”

 

So, CPS holding firm and putting their requirements for the sale of Stargel Stadium out in public view turned out to be a very smart move. FCC now knows the price they need to pay to get the West End site, and after months of saying "we're still considering all the options," have now publicly admitted that West End is their #1 choice.

The real question now seems to be will FCC and CPS/WE agree to terms? Seems like WE or bust.

Yeah, kind of funny how talk radio and the Cincinnati Conservative... I mean Enquirer... was blasting the school district.  I figured all along that it was West End or bust, the stadium will be worth so much more there and then Lindners can dive into the redevelopment of that area too as I assume they will do a lot of, sort of like a mini-edition of the Rickett's family and Wrigleyville in Chicago for the Cubs.

PG Sittenfeld, key council vote, set to make announcement on FC Cincinnati

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2018/04/06/fc-cincinnati-pg-sittenfeld-key-council-vote-make-announcement-west-end-stadium/491404002/

"Newport's all ready to go!"

"March 31 is a hard deadline"

"We're walking away from the West End site"

::)

Surprised that Berding, a former Corporex employee, hasn't been able to work out a deal in Newport. My guess is that has more to do with the Linders not wanting to relocate to Kentucky than it does dollars and cents.

The property in Newport has way more potential to bring in tax revenue for the city as a residential and/or commercial purpose.  A stadium would really be a wasted opportunity.  Newport/Corporex may never have property of that size in that desirable of an area to play with again.   

I've heard they would have had to include Corporex in the ownership group, and that wasn't kosher with either FCC or MLS. Not sure if that's true, though.

Deal appears to be done for FCC in the West End. Assuming holds true all eyes turn to MLS.

Looks like CPS is going to get WAY more money than the team initially offered them. 

The Business Courier reports on the details, although it's mostly what we already knew what was required for a West End plan (full CPS taxes, community benefits agreement).

 

The club will pay $25 million in taxes to the Cincinnati Public Schools, an amount Sittenfeld described as FC Cincinnati’s “full, fair share of taxes.”

 

This is new:

 

The club will donate vacant residential West End land it acquired in the northeast corner of Ezzard Charles Drive and John Street to a private developer who will build $15 million worth of affordable housing there in partnership with the city.

 

 

Looks like CPS is going to get WAY more money than the team initially offered them. 

 

As long as this moves forward, CPS played their hand perfectly

The property in Newport has way more potential to bring in tax revenue for the city as a residential and/or commercial purpose.  A stadium would really be a wasted opportunity.  Newport/Corporex may never have property of that size in that desirable of an area to play with again.   

They've been sitting on the land for over a decade.  If the land is so valuable why hasn't anything been built on it? 

Looks like CPS is going to get WAY more money than the team initially offered them. 

 

Their first offer was a disgraceful lowball amount though, so yeah....

The Business Courier reports on the details, although it's mostly what we already knew what was required for a West End plan (full CPS taxes, community benefits agreement).

 

The club will pay $25 million in taxes to the Cincinnati Public Schools, an amount Sittenfeld described as FC Cincinnati’s “full, fair share of taxes.”

 

This is new:

 

The club will donate vacant residential West End land it acquired in the northeast corner of Ezzard Charles Drive and John Street to a private developer who will build $15 million worth of affordable housing there in partnership with the city.

 

 

 

Where is Brutus_buckeye?  ;D

The property in Newport has way more potential to bring in tax revenue for the city as a residential and/or commercial purpose.  A stadium would really be a wasted opportunity.  Newport/Corporex may never have property of that size in that desirable of an area to play with again.   

They've been sitting on the land for over a decade.  If the land is so valuable why hasn't anything been built on it? 

 

Look at the market forces over the past decade (Great Recession and all), plus the Banks possibly took some wind out of their sails as well.  The future is bright for the Ovation site going forward.

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2018/01/11/big-projects-in-cincinnati-dayton-at-the-forefront.html 

 

As far as FC goes , it's looking more and more like major league sports is again going to return to the West End.

The club will donate vacant residential West End land it acquired in the northeast corner of Ezzard Charles Drive and John Street to a private developer who will build $15 million worth of affordable housing there in partnership with the city.

 

 

 

There isn't any vacant land on the NE corner.  Perhaps the affordable housing will be integrated with the new HS stadium at the SW corner of that intersection. 

The Business Courier reports on the details, although it's mostly what we already knew what was required for a West End plan (full CPS taxes, community benefits agreement).

 

The club will pay $25 million in taxes to the Cincinnati Public Schools, an amount Sittenfeld described as FC Cincinnati’s “full, fair share of taxes.”

 

This is new:

 

The club will donate vacant residential West End land it acquired in the northeast corner of Ezzard Charles Drive and John Street to a private developer who will build $15 million worth of affordable housing there in partnership with the city.

 

 

 

^That doesn't make sense. The "northeast corner of Ezzard Charles Drive and John Street" is occupied by Taft HS. Maybe they mean the "northeast corner of Ezzard Charles Drive and Linn Street"?

The club will donate vacant residential West End land it acquired in the northeast corner of Ezzard Charles Drive and John Street to a private developer who will build $15 million worth of affordable housing there in partnership with the city.

 

 

 

There isn't any vacant land on the NE corner.  Perhaps the affordable housing will be integrated with the new HS stadium at the SW corner of that intersection. 

jmecklenborg[/member] - I seriously doubt that, because $15 million is a LOT of housing, and the site plan for the Stargel replacement doesn't have much extra room. I think they must be some other CMHA-owned vacant land that FCC acquired.

Apparently he meant "northwest corner" instead of northeast. So maybe all of the vacant lots around the Laurel Park Drive circle are the site of this affordable housing.

I thought FCC was already planning to build housing between Wade and Ezzard Charles.

I'm reading that as Northeast corner of city west, which is at the corner of Ezzard Charles and John. That would mean the citirama site that was initially proposed for the relocated Stargel Stadium. Are they trying to put the new high school stadium somewhere else?

I'm reading that as Northeast corner of city west, which is at the corner of Ezzard Charles and John. That would mean the citirama site that was initially proposed for the relocated Stargel Stadium. Are they trying to put the new high school stadium somewhere else?

 

$15 million [/member]$100k per unit = 150 units. 

From Twitter:

 

@AmandaSeitz1 - Here's a breakdown of what Cincinnati's taxpayers will be kicking in for under FC Cincinnati/city deal proposed today:

- $12 million on infrastructure (water, sanitary pipes, gas, electric, road signals)

- $7.8M on demolition and site prep

- $15M on 750-space surface parking  ???

 

 

Edited to add source

Here's a breakdown of what Cincinnati's taxpayers will be kicking in for under FC Cincinnati/city deal proposed today:

- $12 million on infrastructure (water, sanitary pipes, gas, electric, road signals)

- $7.8M on demolition and site prep

- $15M on 750-space surface parking  ???

 

Amanda Seitz wrote that... but I believe that's a mistake. I think that must be for structured parking.

Also on Twitter:

 

@ChrisCinciBiz - The price of this stadium keeps dropping. $250 m a few weeks ago, $200 m at Sittenfeld’s press conference, now $175 m at CPS.

I'm reading that as Northeast corner of city west, which is at the corner of Ezzard Charles and John. That would mean the citirama site that was initially proposed for the relocated Stargel Stadium. Are they trying to put the new high school stadium somewhere else?

 

No. Chris Wetterich revised his article saying the new housing will be in the north *west* corner of Ezzard Charles and John... but he doesn't specify which parcels (since the parcels right at the NW corner are already occupied). I think it refers to some/all of the CMHA vacant parcels throughout Laurel Park that FCC previously agreed to acquire. The $15 million will build 162 affordable units, so that will require a lot of space.

I wouldn't worry about the "surface parking" think. You can pretty much guarantee that the Town Center Garage will be torn down and replaced by a larger and more modern parking structure. Worst case scenario, they just tear down the existing garage, leaving the Crosley Telecommunications Center in the middle of the block, and build the new garage around it. Best case scenario, they build a new parking structure that fills the entire block and incorporates ground floor retail space and studios for WVXU/WGUC/WCET. The city has been looking for an excuse to rebuild the Town Center Garage and/or build a new parking garage in that part of the neighborhood for years. They won't pass up this opportunity, especially when the county has already pledged money towards a garage.

Amanda Seitz

@AmandaSeitz1

 

An interesting nugget from @IamCPS presser. FC Cincinnati told CPS that Major League Soccer will consider team’s expansion bid during an April 17th meeting. CC for my fellow reporters who are on MLS watch @Ryan_Lillis @greggkrupa

Also on Twitter:

 

@ChrisCinciBiz - The price of this stadium keeps dropping. $250 m a few weeks ago, $200 m at Sittenfeld’s press conference, now $175 m at CPS.

 

But apparently the tax that FCC pays will be based on the auditor's ultimate valuation of the site; it won't be a fixed pre-negotiated amount, as they wanted with the previous deal. Much more fair IMO.

Here's a breakdown of what Cincinnati's taxpayers will be kicking in for under FC Cincinnati/city deal proposed today:

- $12 million on infrastructure (water, sanitary pipes, gas, electric, road signals)

- $7.8M on demolition and site prep

- $15M on 750-space surface parking  ???

 

Amanda Seitz wrote that... but I believe that's a mistake. I think that must be for structured parking.

 

Amanda Seitz has since clarified that the money will go towards structured parking.

Here's a breakdown of what Cincinnati's taxpayers will be kicking in for under FC Cincinnati/city deal proposed today:

- $12 million on infrastructure (water, sanitary pipes, gas, electric, road signals)

- $7.8M on demolition and site prep

- $15M on 750-space surface parking  ???

 

Amanda Seitz wrote that... but I believe that's a mistake. I think that must be for structured parking.

 

Amanda Seitz has since clarified that the money will go towards structured parking.

 

At $20,000 spot that had better be structured parking. I know the City of Cincinnati doesn't always spend money wisely but even they couldn't manage to spend that much on a surface lot (I hope).

^750 surface parking spaces would take minimum 4 acres. Fortunately, with this deal (moving Stargel to the “Citirama” empty blocks) that kind of empty land won’t exist in the West End any longer, so they will have to do structured parking. The big question will be how the garages are designed and integrated into surrounding buildings/development. Even though underground parking is more expensive than above, I hope at least a few levels of parking can be underground.

Between this and the new Stargel, there will exist almost no space for new housing in the west end south of liberty St.  so look for a push into the Oliver/poplar/York area between Central Parkway and Linn sooner than would have happened otherwise.

Between this and the new Stargel, there will exist almost no space for new housing in the west end south of liberty St.  so look for a push into the Oliver/poplar/York area between Central Parkway and Linn sooner than would have happened otherwise.

 

What's the "new Stargel?"

Between this and the new Stargel, there will exist almost no space for new housing in the west end south of liberty St.  so look for a push into the Oliver/poplar/York area between Central Parkway and Linn sooner than would have happened otherwise.

 

What's the "new Stargel?"

 

That is what everyone has been calling the new CPS Stadium on Ezzard Charles at Cutter, Clark & John streets......though i have a suspicion that question is not as easy an answer as it seems for some reason.

 

CPS meeting on voting for the proposal has been moved up to this Tuesday and I’m assuming a council vote will be shortly after. This rush is all in lieu of mls board of governor meetings on April 17th, where MLS may finally award FCC a Mls franchise.

 

I’m very curious about how development will proceed in otr/Pendleton/Mt Auburn as the stadium becomes constructed. Will we see more developments? Perhaps those sycamore lots that divide otr and Pendleton will finally be developed?

Don't get your hopes up. Stadiums are rarely a catalyst for spin off development unless they're an anchor part of a much larger development project. And even then, it's not really the stadium that's creating the demand.