If stadiums drove development the Banks would be completed by now.

development/change/new/different/awe inspire development/change/new/different/awe. Things that don't change are called rocks. Change and development will call attention to itself. People in Cal. FL. NY. will not care or hear about the 99-year-old person who needs to move. They along with the rest of the country will hear the name Cincinnati and MLS and things that are happening in the Tri-state area. A good analogy would be:  for years anchor stores would open stores at the four corners of a new mall. The infill shops followed. Not everyone shops at Macys, Dillards, Bass Pro Shops, but those businesses bring people. Its the buzz, the talk, the in thing, etc. People party outside stadiums while an event is taking place just to be a part of it. Consider the reality of big shopping malls, vast parking lots surrounding windowless brick dirigible hangers. Yet for 60 years people flocked to be a part of them. Now, not so much.

 

Like I've mentioned in the past, I still think a larger factor are integrated with the youth experience. 

 

Back when downtown was a wasteland, you would have a giant reds/bengals stadium in a sea of parking lots. The entire experience would literally be, park, walk in said giant parking lot crater, and go to the game, and go home. Very little was actually integrated with the experience of being, "downtown". 

 

This West End stadium is unique. It's situated to be very akin to a Wriggley Field/Fenway. Tons of dense architecture, bars/restaurant/theaters surrounding the stadium. I still envision kids having a wonderful game day experience by walking along Vine St, crossing Washington Park, and crossing Central Park Way to go to a FCC match. 

 

In my mind, this experience of seeing a crowded OTR/Downtown, with the street car passing by, smelling the food coming out of the restaurants, feeling the buzz and energy of life on the streets will become ingrained in the minds of these little kids. They will have a much different image and idea of what downtown is. This, "image" might be a large factor in pursuing an urban lifestyle when they become adults and hence further repopulate downtown down the road. 

 

I just know when I was a kid (early 2000's) downtown was a mess. The banks was a giant parking lot. Just walking on streets that neared or bordered OTR (like near the public library) was considered taboo and a massive sin by suburbanites. Fountain Square and the few surrounding streets were basically the only acceptable parts of being downtown when I was a kid.

 

I grew up being taught downtown is gross! Downtown is a wasteland! Downtown is crime ridden full of thugs and gangsters! So when I turned 18 I desperately wanted to move, because I hated Cincinnati. I hated everything about it. These kids, hopefully, will be ingrained with a much different message about downtown...and I believe this will play a massive factor in our future core. 

 

I believe it's naive to say this is just a, "stadium". This isn't just a stadium. Most stadiums are still built in the suburbs, or surrounded in unattractive parts of downtown (Nashville Fairgrounds MLS stadium for instance)...This stadium is located in the heart of our cities heritage. It the heart of our cities culture. The heart of where all of our entertainment derives from. 

Edited April 30, 20196 yr by troeros

1 hour ago, troeros said:

Back when downtown was a wasteland, you would have a giant reds/bengals stadium in a sea of parking lots. The entire experience would literally be, park, walk in said giant parking lot crater, and go to the game, and go home. Very little was actually integrated with the experience of being, "downtown". 

 

That's not entirely true.  Thousands upon thousands of people parked downtown and walked to Riverfront Stadium.  Everyone crossed on a pair of pedestrian bridges over the old FWW that were actually a lot of fun to walk across.  

 

Also, there were a lot of bars + the Olde Spaghetti Factory right next to Riverfront Stadium that were torn down to build Paul Brown Stadium.  Like at least 10 bars.  

 

20 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

That's not entirely true.  Thousands upon thousands of people parked downtown and walked to Riverfront Stadium.  Everyone crossed on a pair of pedestrian bridges over the old FWW that were actually a lot of fun to walk across.  

 

Also, there were a lot of bars + the Olde Spaghetti Factory right next to Riverfront Stadium that were torn down to build Paul Brown Stadium.  Like at least 10 bars.  

 

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=great+american+ball+park+2001&client=ms-android-sprint-us-revc&prmd=imsvn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj6ndGchvnhAhVKI6wKHSSlBY8Q_AUoAXoECAwQAQ&biw=360&bih=512#imgrc=k4ocUkKeuNF0lM

 

I mainly remember that....don't really recall any of the bars/olde spaghetti factory when I was a kid. Just a crap ton of parking lots.

22 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

That's not entirely true.  Thousands upon thousands of people parked downtown and walked to Riverfront Stadium.  Everyone crossed on a pair of pedestrian bridges over the old FWW that were actually a lot of fun to walk across.  

 

Also, there were a lot of bars + the Olde Spaghetti Factory right next to Riverfront Stadium that were torn down to build Paul Brown Stadium.  Like at least 10 bars.  

 

 

Yeah, my experience was parking at the P&G garage on 6th, and walking down to the games from there. I do remember basically walking from the garage to the stadium and back, though. Not sure what else a parent would do with a kid before or after games back then. It's not like my dad was going to take me to a bar to hangout, and we usually ate at the stadium, so dinner wasn't an option. I do remember how crazy crowded those pedestrian bridges would get after games, and how loud they'd be both with people talking but also all the street performers who'd congregate in there.

West End residents call for council to block FC Cincinnati stadium plan

 

 

FC Cincinnati and the residents of three West End buildings acquired by the club have yet to reach a deal on their status, according to a Tuesday news release that also urged the Cincinnati City Council to reject an amendment needed to the stadium’s concept plan.

 

That amendment incorporates two, short spurs of public streets that lead into the stadium site, one on Central Avenue and another at West 15th Street. Incorporating residential properties FC Cincinnati has acquired at 421 Wade St. and 1559 Central Ave. was dropped from the request in April.

 

The residents’ group, FightBack Cincinnati: Wade Street & Central Avenue Tenants United, urged council not to approve the amendment until their situation was resolved. They demanded that 1559 Central Ave. be transferred to West End social service agency Seven Hills Neighborhood Houses and all residents of the two buildings be allowed to live there with the club paying for “moving costs and financial compensation.”

 

“Last year, Jeff Berding and FC Cincinnati publicly told everyone they would not displace anybody,” the group said in a statement. “As of now, even after our brief meeting with Jeff and FC Cincinnati last Friday, FC Cincinnati is still telling us we have to leave our homes.” 

 

Supporters of the residents group questioned the club’s honesty. 

 

“Did Jeff lie to the people?” asked Stanford Poole, a Madisonville resident who told the Business Courier he attended Taft High School and is a former West End resident. 

 

Full article below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/05/01/west-end-residents-call-for-council-to-block-fc.html

On 5/1/2019 at 2:14 PM, ColDayMan said:

That amendment incorporates two, short spurs of public streets that lead into the stadium site, one on Central Avenue and another at West 15th Street. Incorporating residential properties FC Cincinnati has acquired at 421 Wade St. and 1559 Central Ave. was dropped from the request in April. 

 

It looks like FC has walked back from including these apartment buildings in the PD. All they're asking for now is to extend the PD from the center line of two roadways to the edge of the ROW:

 

 

 

 

4/30 progress update

26 minutes ago, thomasbw said:

 

 

4/30 progress update

 

Thanks for the shot. I imagine you were flying back in to CVG but it's funny...that shot looks like some Cold War era spy shot.

FC Cincinnati stadium could help level playing field in West End

 

 

West End’s population will double. Inclusion goals will be hit. No residents will be displaced. A new workforce will be developed. Property ownership in the African American community will rise. Jobs will be created. The soccer stadium will be finished on time and on budget. These are the goals for FC Cincinnati's new stadium.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/05/03/fc-cincinnati-stadium-could-help-level-playing.html

33 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

FC Cincinnati stadium could help level playing field in West End

 

 

West End’s population will double. Inclusion goals will be hit. No residents will be displaced. A new workforce will be developed. Property ownership in the African American community will rise. Jobs will be created. The soccer stadium will be finished on time and on budget. These are the goals for FC Cincinnati's new stadium.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/05/03/fc-cincinnati-stadium-could-help-level-playing.html

I wish them well, but all i hear after reading your intro is....

 

 

This might have been posted earlier.  If so, I missed it.  

 

The team has a pair of stadium construction web cams:

https://www.fccincinnati.com/westend/construction-cam

^ You should ask if they'd like to borrow your bubble level.

15 minutes ago, taestell said:

^ You should ask if they'd like to borrow your bubble level.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Aluminium-Housing-Surface-Mounted-Circular/dp/B014HPYYGO/ref=sr_1_4?crid=689QQ7MH8KKH&keywords=bubble+level&qid=1557250218&s=gateway&sprefix=bubble+level%2Caps%2C139&sr=8-4

 

I did not realize that WCET owns the air rights above the Town Center Garage. That explains their desire not to move...they can develop residential or office space above the existing garage, or sell off those air rights to the team or another developer who wants to do that.

4 hours ago, taestell said:

 

I did not realize that WCET owns the air rights above the Town Center Garage. That explains their desire not to move...they can develop residential or office space above the existing garage, or sell off those air rights to the team or another developer who wants to do that.

 

I do not, for the life of me, understand why Cincinnati Public Radio wants to move out and build a separate facility from WCET but WCET wants stay put. There’s gotta be a story behind that. 

 

As far as the air rights to the garage go that probably has more to do with their satellite dishes than any thoughts of development. 

 

 

Cincinnati Public Radio (WVXU/WGUC/WMUB) was renting space from WCET/ThinkTV which owns the building. I think Cincinnati Public Radio probably sees the writing on the wall, realizes there is a good chance that the whole building will come down within the next decade for some new development, and used the opportunity to fundraise and build their own "signature" building by City Hall. WCET on the other hand is probably going to stick it out until the city, the team, or another developer is willing to give them a truck full of cash to move.

13 minutes ago, taestell said:

Cincinnati Public Radio (WVXU/WGUC/WMUB) was renting space from WCET/ThinkTV which owns the building. I think Cincinnati Public Radio probably sees the writing on the wall, realizes there is a good chance that the whole building will come down within the next decade for some new development, and used the opportunity to fundraise and build their own "signature" building by City Hall. WCET on the other hand is probably going to stick it out until the city, the team, or another developer is willing to give them a truck full of cash to move.

 

I would think there is a relationship between the two besides landlord/tenant. Shared equipment, facilities or human resources in order to make their donation money go farther. If not I kind of question if they are operating efficiently. I’m already questioning public radio’s decision to take on the expense of building a new building. 

Edited May 10, 20196 yr by thebillshark

No, I believe they are totally separate entities. WCET merged with the Dayton-area PBS stations (ThinkTV) a few years ago, so all of those channels share resources in terms of fundraising and back office functions. Meanwhile Cincinnati Public Radio (WVXU) merged with several other public radio stations (WMUB was formerly owned by Miami University, WGUC was formerly owned by UC) which resulted in a reduction of overhead. They might have some agreements in place to share some broadcast equipment, but that is very common (even for competing for-profit TV stations) as a way to cut costs and/or provide redundancy in the case of an emergency. With that being said, I'm sure they have a very friendly relationship with eachother. I bet there were a lot of Cincinnati Public Radio staff members who volunteer to answer phones during CET's annual Action Auction fundraiser, and vice versa. But in terms of the building, CET is the landlord and CPR is a tenant.

16 hours ago, taestell said:

No, I believe they are totally separate entities. WCET merged with the Dayton-area PBS stations (ThinkTV) a few years ago, so all of those channels share resources in terms of fundraising and back office functions. Meanwhile Cincinnati Public Radio (WVXU) merged with several other public radio stations (WMUB was formerly owned by Miami University, WGUC was formerly owned by UC) which resulted in a reduction of overhead. They might have some agreements in place to share some broadcast equipment, but that is very common (even for competing for-profit TV stations) as a way to cut costs and/or provide redundancy in the case of an emergency. With that being said, I'm sure they have a very friendly relationship with eachother. I bet there were a lot of Cincinnati Public Radio staff members who volunteer to answer phones during CET's annual Action Auction fundraiser, and vice versa. But in terms of the building, CET is the landlord and CPR is a tenant.

 

Hmm... maybe WCET will move operations to Dayton and sell the building which is why Cincinnati Public Radio would need a new one. Wikipedia says master control operations are already at WPTD in Dayton. 

Yeah, I'm not sure how much local programming WCET produces and whether it is really necessary for them to have their own studio and broadcasting facilities. If they have already moved most of their broadcasting operations to their sister stations in Dayton, they could get rid of their Cincinnati studio and partner with one of the other local TV stations when they need a studio in Cincinnati for something like the Action Auction.

 

19 hours ago, thebillshark said:

As far as the air rights to the garage go that probably has more to do with their satellite dishes than any thoughts of development.

 

You also have to remember that the urban renewal era vision for the Town Center development was to consolidate several of the region's arts and culture institutions and several governmental institutions together in one place. In addition to the Crosley Telecommunications Center, the Town Center garage was going to be topped by new construction that would include some sort of theater, a "Consortium of Universities", a "Community Cultural Center", retail space, and high-rise housing. Additionally, several public school buildings, a police station, and Music Hall were nearby, and all of these things would be linked together via glorious skywalks!

 

 

 

It looks like the skywalk across Ezzard Charles connecting the two school buildings, which looked identical to the Music Hall skywalk, existed until around 2007 or 2008 when it was demolished along with the old high school, to make way for the new Robert A Taft Information Technology High School building. (Across the street, you can still see the stub where the skywalk used to connect.)

After commissioners dress down FC Cincinnati over displacement, club scales back zoning request

 

 

The Cincinnati Planning Commission on Friday unanimously approved changes needed for FC Cincinnati to build its West End stadium, but the club reduced the plan’s scope again amid a tongue-lashing from commissioners over the uncertain fate of residents living nearby.

 

The major amendment to the club’s plan incorporates one, short spur of West 15th Street that leads into the stadium site, as well as Nome Alley, into the stadium’s concept plan. The team severed a spur on Central Avenue from its request after commissioners said they were not satisfied with the status of residents living in buildings at 421 Wade St. and 1559 Central Ave. who have been told they must leave by May 31. It will have to return to the commission and City Council with that request later.

 

FCC purchased those buildings and originally included the Wade Street address in the major amendment. It later withdrew it when displacement concerns arose. Seven of the residents in the two buildings are without new housing, and FCC has said the May 31 deadline could be extended.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/05/10/after-commissioners-dress-down-fc-cincinnati-over.html

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2019/05/13/fc-cincinnati-stadium-west-end-gentrification-home-prices/3572235002/

 

As expected, real estate prices are beginning to sharply increase in portions of West End and Old West End. 

 

Old West End still has some really great archeticture remaining, so if anything comes out of this fcc gentrification procress I truly hope that we can reconnect old West end with otr/Brighton and end this disconnect where each neighborhood feels like islands due to reinvestment versus lack thereof.

The stadium merely accelerated the inevitable.  OTR was completely picked over and building on the hillsides usually involves retaining walls, piles, etc., so it's $100k after the price of a lot on Mulberry, Dorsey, etc. just to get started. 

 

The people trying to get $100k for a shell in the West End aren't getting it.  It's not really at OTR prices except for the immediate vicinity of the stadium and then Dayton St.  People trying to get high prices on Colerain, Baymiller, etc., aren't getting the big money. 

2 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

The stadium merely accelerated the inevitable.  OTR was completely picked over and building on the hillsides usually involves retaining walls, piles, etc., so it's $100k after the price of a lot on Mulberry, Dorsey, etc. just to get started. 

 

The people trying to get $100k for a shell in the West End aren't getting it.  It's not really at OTR prices except for the immediate vicinity of the stadium and then Dayton St.  People trying to get high prices on Colerain, Baymiller, etc., aren't getting the big money. 

 

Also, home prices have doubled or more everywhere west of I-75 since 2016.  Carthage, Hartwell, Spring Grove Village, Elmwood Place, Mt. Airy, Westwood, Price Hill, Covedale, etc. 

 

Few dirt-cheap homes remain in Cincinnati.  The West Side has been ravaged by flippers.  The Enquirer, as usual, operates with little familiarity with reality. 

 

For example -- this was a $55,000 house in 2016-17:

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1610515/704-Clanora-Dr-Price-Hill-OH-45205

 

 

The activity on and around Dayton Street was beginning to pick up about a year prior to the FC announcement.

 

The problem with the stadium is that it will change the intensity and programming of the West End's revitalization. Where we may have seen a more organic emergence of business and activity, we will now see more "top-down" style master plan redevelopment and programming more oriented towards entertainment and FC. 

 

There was always going to be revitalization in the West End, especially with the urban core reviving over the past 15-20 years. But the where and the what of it will be dramatically different and may not be all that great for the neighborhood in the long-term.

7 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

The stadium merely accelerated the inevitable.  OTR was completely picked over and building on the hillsides usually involves retaining walls, piles, etc., so it's $100k after the price of a lot on Mulberry, Dorsey, etc. just to get started. 

 

The people trying to get $100k for a shell in the West End aren't getting it.  It's not really at OTR prices except for the immediate vicinity of the stadium and then Dayton St.  People trying to get high prices on Colerain, Baymiller, etc., aren't getting the big money. 

 

Why is that though? Streets like Baymiller is probably what, 5-10 min max walk to the FCC stadium? After that, it's what also 5-10 min walk to Findley market/Rhinegeist Brewery, 10 min walk maybe 15 min to Music Hall/Washington Park?

 

These old West end streets are in the epicenter of all the redevelopment around it. You could literally walk to all of the key attractions in cincy in less than 15 minutes. 

 

It doesn't make sense why property developers aren't snatching these properties up like crazy!

20 minutes ago, troeros said:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2019/05/13/fc-cincinnati-stadium-west-end-gentrification-home-prices/3572235002/

 

As expected, real estate prices are beginning to sharply increase in portions of West End and Old West End. 

 

Old West End still has some really great archeticture remaining, so if anything comes out of this fcc gentrification procress I truly hope that we can reconnect old West end with otr/Brighton and end this disconnect where each neighborhood feels like islands due to reinvestment versus lack thereof.

 

What area is "Old West End?" I've never heard this term. 

7 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

Also, home prices have doubled or more everywhere west of I-75 since 2016.  Carthage, Hartwell, Spring Grove Village, Elmwood Place, Mt. Airy, Westwood, Price Hill, Covedale, etc. 

 

Few dirt-cheap homes remain in Cincinnati.  The West Side has been ravaged by flippers.  The Enquirer, as usual, operates with little familiarity with reality. 

 

For example -- this was a $55,000 house in 2016-17:

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1610515/704-Clanora-Dr-Price-Hill-OH-45205

 

 

 

Was just about to chime in with this. And this general real estate inflation will be mislabeled “gentrification” in a lot of places. It’s the gentrification of everywhere- enough to make the term meaningless. 

 

I recall hearing from a bunch of people before 2008 that home prices never come down (obviously that was soon proven incorrect.) I wonder if real estate will come down again in the next recession. 

The thing is, having the stadium in the West End is a selling point for some people, but it's a deterrent to others. Prior to the stadium being announced, I would have considered eventually selling my condo in OTR and moving into a single-family home in the West End where things were a little quieter but you're still a short walk to all of the things in OTR and Downtown. But now that the stadium is there, I wouldn't consider living there. I don't want a stadium in my back yard.

7 minutes ago, taestell said:

The thing is, having the stadium in the West End is a selling point for some people, but it's a deterrent to others. Prior to the stadium being announced, I would have considered eventually selling my condo in OTR and moving into a single-family home in the West End where things were a little quieter but you're still a short walk to all of the things in OTR and Downtown. But now that the stadium is there, I wouldn't consider living there. I don't want a stadium in my back yard.

 

There will be 17 MLS Home Games in the West End. Each Match goes 90 minutes.

 

That means at the worst you would have to suffer 34 hours of any match noise in an entire year. 

10 minutes ago, taestell said:

The thing is, having the stadium in the West End is a selling point for some people, but it's a deterrent to others. Prior to the stadium being announced, I would have considered eventually selling my condo in OTR and moving into a single-family home in the West End where things were a little quieter but you're still a short walk to all of the things in OTR and Downtown. But now that the stadium is there, I wouldn't consider living there. I don't want a stadium in my back yard.

 WHile it will be a detriment for some. It will be an overall boon for the neighborhood. It puts it on the map. It gives people a reason to go there and check it out and say, "gee, it may be cool to live down here someday" whereas, the West End now does not have something to really attract people. You have to know about it and seek it out on purpose. There is not a job center there, there is not entertainment or chic restaurants that will pull people to the neighborhood.  The West End is nice now with City West and has a quiet neighborhood feel to it, but it is not much different than the suburbs such as Oakley or Pleasant Ridge. Yes, you can walk to Music Hall or the Park, but there is not something that is really going to specifically pull people to the neighborhood.  It does not have to be a stadium but something for an anchor to get people to consider an area they never did before.

7 minutes ago, troeros said:

There will be 17 MLS Home Games in the West End. Each Match goes 90 minutes.

 

That means at the worst you would have to suffer 34 hours of any match noise in an entire year. 

 

So far, the team has only showed vague site plans with "future development" surrounding the stadium. But I have no doubt that the stadium will eventually be surrounded with The Banks-style buildings with entertainment-focused businesses on the first floor. Think Tin Roof, Galla Park, Toby Keith's, Hard Rock Cafe, etc.

 

I think John put it perfectly:

 

35 minutes ago, JYP said:

The problem with the stadium is that it will change the intensity and programming of the West End's revitalization. Where we may have seen a more organic emergence of business and activity, we will now see more "top-down" style master plan redevelopment and programming more oriented towards entertainment and FC.

 

The West End was always going to gentrify because it's a historic neighborhood next to the CBD and OTR. Prior to the stadium announcement, it was on a path to become something like Prospect Hill, where wealthier people start moving in and investing in rehabbing historic homes or building new homes on the vacant lots. Maybe a few restaurants and bars scattered here and there. But it was essentially going to have the "best of both worlds" — quiet residential streets with single family homes, but a short walk to OTR entertainment and CBD jobs. People are willing to pay a lot of money for luxury of having that combination. Now, it's on a path to having more master-planned The Banks-style infill surrounding the stadium and on other nearby vacant lots. Like I said, that's an attraction for some people, a deterrent to others.

15 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

 WHile it will be a detriment for some. It will be an overall boon for the neighborhood. It puts it on the map. It gives people a reason to go there and check it out and say, "gee, it may be cool to live down here someday" whereas, the West End now does not have something to really attract people. You have to know about it and seek it out on purpose. There is not a job center there, there is not entertainment or chic restaurants that will pull people to the neighborhood.  The West End is nice now with City West and has a quiet neighborhood feel to it, but it is not much different than the suburbs such as Oakley or Pleasant Ridge. Yes, you can walk to Music Hall or the Park, but there is not something that is really going to specifically pull people to the neighborhood.  It does not have to be a stadium but something for an anchor to get people to consider an area they never did before.

 

This.

 

You know how many people thought west end was the west side? If you Bob from Mason where the west end was he would have no clue. This stadium has changed the identity and perception of the west end increasingly.

Why do we care so much what Bob from Mason thinks? If Bob hasn't heard of the West End he probably hasn't also heard of South Cumminsville, Lower Price Hill, or O'Bryonville. Maybe Bob has been to Pendleton before but he thinks it's part of OTR.

^ It is not just Bob from Mason. It is Ceirra who is relocating for a job from DC or Eric who graduated Harvard and has a opportunity with a major firm in Cincinnati. THey both spent most of their young adulthood living in a city urban setting. Heck Cierra even grew up in a tri-level townhome in DC similar to what they have in City West. Coming to the area, this makes them interested in taking a look at the West End instead of focusing on OTR and Prospect Hill only or alas, looking across the river in Newport or Covington.  There is a lot of competition in neighborhoods of similar character out there, this helps the area get noticed.

10 minutes ago, taestell said:

Why do we care so much what Bob from Mason thinks? If Bob hasn't heard of the West End he probably hasn't also heard of South Cumminsville, Lower Price Hill, or O'Bryonville. Maybe Bob has been to Pendleton before but he thinks it's part of OTR.

 

Your making it sound as if increased awareness of our city core neighborhoods is a bad thing...

Awareness of city neighborhoods is great. Cramming more entertainment venues and megablock developments into every neighborhood to appeal more to suburbanites is a terrible decision.

15 minutes ago, taestell said:

 

So far, the team has only showed vague site plans with "future development" surrounding the stadium. But I have no doubt that the stadium will eventually be surrounded with The Banks-style buildings with entertainment-focused businesses on the first floor. Think Tin Roof, Galla Park, Toby Keith's, Hard Rock Cafe, etc.

 

I don't think there's going to be that much development around the stadium and I don't think any of those type of places will open there.  The team has basically one small plot of land where I'm sure they'll do some type of development with residential or hotel above retail.  In that retail I'm sure there will be a bar or two but I don't think it will be a giant chain bars like Toby Keith's or Hard Rock Cafe (do either of these places even exist anymore?).  It will likely just be some soccer themed sports bar.  I'm not sure how that would be any different then all the other bars already existing in OTR.  

 

Besides their small plot of land where is all this other space for banks style buildings?  The CET garage could be demolished but that isn't happening anytime soon.  The ballet could move but that isn't happening anytime soon.  So other then those two areas that aren't getting cleared for development for a while where exactly is the land for big new buildings?  The West End around the stadium is pretty built out.  There aren't just blocks of open space for development like there is at the banks.  

 

55 minutes ago, taestell said:

I would have considered eventually selling my condo in OTR and moving into a single-family home in the West End where things were a little quieter but you're still a short walk to all of the things in OTR and Downtown. But now that the stadium is there, I wouldn't consider living there. I don't want a stadium in my back yard.

 

The West End is a big neighborhood. You could still purchase a place on Baymiller, York, Findlay, Dayton, Freeman, Colerain, Clark, Chestnut, etc and be very marginally impacted by the stadium. The homes right around the stadium (mainly bounded by Liberty, Ezzard Charles, and Linn) are obviously a different story.

Hopefully they carve out some space for retail storefronts that face the sidewalk when they inevitably build parking garages.

Honestly, I am more concerned with the long term life of the Choremonster building https://goo.gl/maps/1GTTSJYG49Zc2R277 and the renovation of this old theater on Linn and Clark streets https://goo.gl/maps/v9cr48JUPmiM6oFS9 than lackluster normcore architecture.

Generally speaking large stadiums and arenas dont spark too much investment and development.  As its been mentioned recently on this forum, see The Banks as an example. 

1 hour ago, thebillshark said:

 

Was just about to chime in with this. And this general real estate inflation will be mislabeled “gentrification” in a lot of places. It’s the gentrification of everywhere- enough to make the term meaningless. 

 

It's all about lending.  It's once again easy to get a mortgage.  Never mind Quicken and the big banks -- even the credit unions are once again hawking mortgages.  

 

Meanwhile, the banks are still hesitant to lend to developers in the way they did pre-crash.  That's why big spec condo projects are rare along with big suburban subdivisions.  The ones that do go up are private equity deals, so they're rarer.  

 

With suburban construction stunted by difficult lending, the post-crash years have been a boon for first-ring neighborhoods nationwide.  

 

 

6 minutes ago, NsideProp said:

Hopefully they carve out some space for retail storefronts that face the sidewalk when they inevitably build parking garages.

Honestly, I am more concerned with the long term life of the Choremonster building https://goo.gl/maps/1GTTSJYG49Zc2R277 and the renovation of this old theater on Linn and Clark streets https://goo.gl/maps/v9cr48JUPmiM6oFS9 than lackluster normcore architecture.

Generally speaking large stadiums and arenas dont spark too much investment and development.  As its been mentioned recently on this forum, see The Banks as an example. 

 

 

Yea, Both of those are gems in their own way, I just hope those at FCC don't let their egos be hurt by having at least ONE neighbor they dont own in their bubble as it relates to the Choremonster building.  I think it is cool to have a big industrial sized building next door and wish there were more but i can see someone asking why such an eyesore is blocking the chances of having a clear photo of their shiny new stadium and music hall in the same image.

1 hour ago, JYP said:

The problem with the stadium is that it will change the intensity and programming of the West End's revitalization. Where we may have seen a more organic emergence of business and activity, we will now see more "top-down" style master plan redevelopment and programming more oriented towards entertainment and FC. 

 

This is what the soccer bros want.  They don't want stuff that is locally owned and not-slick.  They want hedge-fund honky tonks, like Nashville.  

 

Overwhelmingly, the American consumer wants the appearance of authenticity, but is scared of the real thing.  

6 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

This is what the soccer bros want.  They don't want stuff that is locally owned and not-slick.  They want hedge-fund honky tonks, like Nashville.  

 

Overwhelmingly, the American consumer wants the appearance of authenticity, but is scared of the real thing.  

 

I don't know what a soccer bro is other a disparaging term for millennial soccer fan but you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. All the FCC fans I know would much rather have small local owned business and restaurants than whatever you seem to be implying, that's why so many FCC fans wanted the stadium in the West End for the access to all the local bars in OTR. 

^I think what jake was stating hyperbolically was that a lot of things wind up being hipster-lite which is currently the dominant culture among under-40 Caucasian urban users in the Midwest. Things that are full-on hipster would be indeed too much.

32 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

This is what the soccer bros want.  They don't want stuff that is locally owned and not-slick.  They want hedge-fund honky tonks, like Nashville.  

 

Overwhelmingly, the American consumer wants the appearance of authenticity, but is scared of the real thing.  

The vast majority of the "soccer bros" go out in OTR before and after games.  So no I don't think they want Nashville like bars.  Maybe stop generalizing an an entire fanbase that you clearly don't know much about.  

1 hour ago, NsideProp said:

Hopefully they carve out some space for retail storefronts that face the sidewalk when they inevitably build parking garages.

Honestly, I am more concerned with the long term life of the Choremonster building https://goo.gl/maps/1GTTSJYG49Zc2R277 and the renovation of this old theater on Linn and Clark streets https://goo.gl/maps/v9cr48JUPmiM6oFS9 than lackluster normcore architecture.

Generally speaking large stadiums and arenas dont spark too much investment and development.  As its been mentioned recently on this forum, see The Banks as an example. 

 

I agree that generally speaking stadiums are not good economic development tools, but I'm not so sure the Banks is a good example. People here love to hate the Banks but it is one of the most successful urban neighborhoods in the city and without it we'd still have one of the worst river fronts in the country. The buildings are uninspiring for sure but there are lots of people living in those buildings and the bars and restaurants do amazing business on the weekends and now even during the week. It's become a round the clock neighborhood and it would be even better if the city/county/business community got out of their own way and finally finished building it. 

Does anyone knows if they ever plan on building a northbound I-75 Exit ramp for Ezzard Charles or Liberty Street? Currently when coming from Kentucky you either exit downtown or on 50 West. If you miss those exits your next option is Hopple Street. As a West End resident I understand the 50 West exit, but it can be quiet a challenge for those not familiar. 

However.. I do appreciate that not having this exit ramp probably reduces the amount of traffic flying down Ezzard Charles.