the debate over going cashless:

 

https://nypost.com/2018/04/24/not-everyone-is-happy-that-restaurants-are-going-cashless/

Jesus, is everything about race with some people? Cash is dirty, coins are heavy, hard to completely monitor. and expensive to produce. And people are apt to spend more when not limited by what they can scrounge in their pockets. Bunch of political pandering booshit as usual.

Jesus, is everything about race with some people? Cash is dirty, coins are heavy, hard to completely monitor. and expensive to produce. And people are apt to spend more when not limited by what they can scrounge in their pockets. Bunch of political pandering booshit as usual.

 

I don’t know if you knew this, but people with low incomes have a hard time accessing the credit that in most cases would be necessary to go cashless. In the United States of America, the country which this article addresses, people of color are disproportionately likely to be affected by issues of low income. I agree not everything should be about race. But the males of white European descent who control the political process on this continent have had a real problem ignoring race for the better part of 5 centuries (see slavery, innumerable laws and social norms forming a barrier to an integrated society). I would blame that weighty history sliiiiiiightly more than the HALF SENTENCE that addresses race in the article.

i havent used cash at a restaurant in years.  I also rarely use a credit card.  Wouldnt a debit card solve most of the issues for both sides?

Jesus, is everything about race with some people? Cash is dirty, coins are heavy, hard to completely monitor. and expensive to produce. And people are apt to spend more when not limited by what they can scrounge in their pockets. Bunch of political pandering booshit as usual.

 

I don’t know if you knew this, but people with low incomes have a hard time accessing the credit that in most cases would be necessary to go cashless. In the United States of America, the country which this article addresses, people of color are disproportionately likely to be affected by issues of low income. I agree not everything should be about race. But the males of white European descent who control the political process on this continent have had a real problem ignoring race for the better part of 5 centuries (see slavery, innumerable laws and social norms forming a barrier to an integrated society). I would blame that weighty history sliiiiiiightly more than the HALF SENTENCE that addresses race in the article.

 

I will preface this with saying I don’t know any of the statistics with low income access...but going cashless isn’t really a function of access to credit anymore. Debit cards, Venmo, PayPal, phone payment systems, etc. Its more a function of technology.

^Are you guys volunteering to buy people phones or pay transaction fees or low balance fees for debit cards?  We may get there eventually, but the conventional wisdom is that non-cash services are expensive for people with marginal savings and access to (expensive) technology. I'm not sure why some people are so triggered by advocates lobbying on behalf of these people, when they are in no way preventing anyone else from paying however they wish.

Comes to restaurant thread to read about restaurants.... Immediately clicks the back arrow...

i havent used cash at a restaurant in years.  I also rarely use a credit card.  Wouldnt a debit card solve most of the issues for both sides?

 

Even debit cards are expensive for poor people.  Checking accounts have minimum balance/transaction requirements.  Some people are unbankable because they may have made some mistakes that got them on ChexSystems. These are definitely issues worth talking about and advocating for.  Although, it is more of an social class/income issue than a racial one.  Although, there is a lot of overlap between the 2. Anyway, back to restaurant discussions.

This is fine.  I see and understand both sides.  Lets look at the places that want to move to cashless, however.  I doubt its at a lower socioeconomic pricepoint.  The lower pricepoint places i dont suspect would EVER consider that move considering their customer base.  The Applebees guy spoke out in the article, and even Applebees is a bit pricey for folks that have trouble open a bank account.  A quick look at Rossopomodoro's menu shows an average price of food in the $20 range.  So the arguments being made her arent even talking about the same supply and demand markets.  http://www.rossonyc.com/menu/

 

 

Jesus, is everything about race with some people? Cash is dirty, coins are heavy, hard to completely monitor. and expensive to produce. And people are apt to spend more when not limited by what they can scrounge in their pockets. Bunch of political pandering booshit as usual.

 

 

yeah unfortunately it is this is america.

 

i went to a fancy cocktail speakeasy type bar recently and it turns out it was cash only. this surprized everyone that went in there. we all had to go across the street to an atm at some irish bar to get loot. one couple said to me, "this is crazy, only drug dealers carry cash."

 

for the record -- the bar was little branch in the village -- i rec it if you are in nyc, its a nice place, but...cash only.

 

i think the real pushback is regarding these coffeeshops and fast casual restaurants pulling the cashless routine as they do or should or could serve a wider variety/ses of people. no doubt there will be a law stopping cashless only businesses soon enough.

 

i dont personally care, but it does make it harder on poor folk. also, a cashless society is a kind of scary step toward fascism that may be inevitable, but i dont think we are ready for that to get too widespread as yet.

 

 

Different strokes for different folks. If you can't afford to maintain a basic checking account or credit card, eat somewhere else. A business has no obligation nor requirement to make their product accessible to people of all income ranges.

Different strokes for different folks. If you can't afford to maintain a basic checking account or credit card, eat somewhere else. A business has no obligation nor requirement to make their product accessible to people of all income ranges.

 

This note is legal tender for all debts...

 

lol yeah and 3..2..1 until a law is passed about that.

 

its already on deck in chicago and probably elsewhere.

Prepaid debit cards kinda suck but are an option. Going cashless at my business is not an option since we buy much of our stock from the public, but dealing with worthless coin litter and handing every other person that comes in the door four 1s because of add-on tax is totally lame. Night deposits are out of the question since it's already super late, some employees don't drive and the bank is in the opposite direction of where workers live.

Different strokes for different folks. If you can't afford to maintain a basic checking account or credit card, eat somewhere else. A business has no obligation nor requirement to make their product accessible to people of all income ranges.

 

This note is legal tender for all debts...

 

 

"For detbs," it is, but we're talking about payment in exchange for goods and services.

 

Is it legal for a business in the United States to refuse cash as a form of payment?

 

Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," states: "United States coins and currency [including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks] are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."

 

This statute means that all United States money as identified above is a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law which says otherwise.

 

https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm

 

The Fed leaves it open to states and local jurisdictions to adopt commie policies if they so choose, but my guess is that only the types of places that ban straws and charge plastic bag fees will ever do so. The rest of America will give businesses the freedom to choose.

Prepaid debit cards kinda suck but are an option. Going cashless at my business is not an option since we buy much of our stock from the public, but dealing with worthless coin litter and handing every other person that comes in the door four 1s because of add-on tax is totally lame. Night deposits are out of the question since it's already super late, some employees don't drive and the bank is in the opposite direction of where workers live.

 

 

^ great example.

 

i would not rush to judgment here -- i think this cash/card topic has a ways to go before it plays all the way out.

 

i can easily foresee a lot more innovation for handling payments as well.

Different strokes for different folks. If you can't afford to maintain a basic checking account or credit card, eat somewhere else. A business has no obligation nor requirement to make their product accessible to people of all income ranges.

 

This note is legal tender for all debts...

 

 

"For detbs," it is, but we're talking about payment in exchange for goods and services.

 

Is it legal for a business in the United States to refuse cash as a form of payment?

 

Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," states: "United States coins and currency [including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks] are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."

 

This statute means that all United States money as identified above is a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law which says otherwise.

 

https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm

 

The Fed leaves it open to states and local jurisdictions to adopt commie policies if they so choose, but my guess is that only the types of places that ban straws and charge plastic bag fees will ever do so. The rest of America will give businesses the freedom to choose.

 

Give businesses the freedom instead of consumers.  Free dumb.

so far cashless leans toward the wealthy and cash for the poor.

 

the poor will have the last laugh tho when the russkies, the isil or the red chinee or whoever drop those emp bombs on us and all electronic records are fried out.

I can't imagine this getting that widespread.  Businesses have to pay a CC fee for every CC transaction, and that can really cut into the bottom line.  Most will continue to prefer cash for that reason.

I'm all-cash all-the-time.  Today I'm paying cash for repairs to my mountain bike.  Then I'm buying $20 in gas - with cash.  Then I'll stop by the grocery store tonight.  And pay cash. 

 

I use a debit card about once per month and a credit card 1-2 times per year. 

I'm all-cash all-the-time.  Today I'm paying cash for repairs to my mountain bike.  Then I'm buying $20 in gas - with cash.  Then I'll stop by the grocery store tonight.  And pay cash. 

 

I use a debit card about once per month and a credit card 1-2 times per year.

 

Why?

I recall seeing a story on TV in recent years about how a very poor town(s) in Africa had gone cashless - including residents setting up businesses via micro loans paid to them via a debit card, etc... The entire area ran on - was (relatively) thriving - because of cashless payments, though they had no paved roads and probably little plumbing, etc... If they can do it....

 

Also, in the US, things like parking meters have gone cashless in many places - and certainly there are many without credit cards who probably have to figure that out or can't park there.

 

At the same time, I can think of people like my 70ish year old in-laws, who are already shocked when they see us using a credit card in a parking meter. They just don't get the concept of cashless - or at least for small purchases or payments. Not everyone is 20 and has rarely seen or used cash.

I'm waiting for the more savvy panhandlers to get that credit card swipey attachment on their iPhones.

I've gotten tons of free flights and hotel rooms from credit cards.  If you're a person like me who just pays off the full balance every month you're turning down thousands of free dollars by using cash.  Of course if you're a person who doesn't pay off your credit card every month then you are the ones making those companies all their money. 

I'm waiting for the more savvy panhandlers to get that credit card swipey attachment on their iPhones.

 

 

this is also something i find frustrating.  I typically like to help out folks needing money but getting cash in my hand is so damn inconvenient.  Same with tips to bellhops, valet, heinens associates.  This is going to sound crazy right now...but there is tremendous opportunity in the future to make money transfer very simple while still being secure (think bio checking account).  Use your finger print or eye scan to transfer money to a company or another human.  And please, save the criticism, its just a wild idea.  This isnt my area of expertise, im just saying there is opportunity there.

I've gotten tons of free flights and hotel rooms from credit cards.  If you're a person like me who just pays off the full balance every month you're turning down thousands of free dollars by using cash.  Of course if you're a person who doesn't pay off your credit card every month then you are the ones making those companies all their money. 

 

Yeah, I use my credit card for nearly every purchase, and pay it off in full every month. I flew to Taiwan for free earlier this year almost entirely due to everyday spending racking up SkyMiles points. I don't use the credit card for anything I wouldn't otherwise buy. I don't see a downside - Amex is essentially paying me to use their card.

I'm waiting for the more savvy panhandlers to get that credit card swipey attachment on their iPhones.

 

 

this is also something i find frustrating.  I typically like to help out folks needing money but getting cash in my hand is so damn inconvenient.  Same with tips to bellhops, valet, heinens associates.  This is going to sound crazy right now...but there is tremendous opportunity in the future to make money transfer very simple while still being secure (think bio checking account).  Use your finger print or eye scan to transfer money to a company or another human.  And please, save the criticism, its just a wild idea.  This isnt my area of expertise, im just saying there is opportunity there.

 

 

panhandlers don't like having 1099s sent to the IRS by the credit card processors

I typically pay my bill on the card but I always try and tip in cash so the waiter can keep a bit more of the tip that way.

I typically pay my bill on the card but I always try and tip in cash so the waiter can keep a bit more of the tip that way.

 

I always tip on my card. I know too many waiters who skimp on their civic duty by under-reporting cash tips to dodge taxes. At least if there's a paper trail, they're more likely to pay what they're supposed to.

I typically pay my bill on the card but I always try and tip in cash so the waiter can keep a bit more of the tip that way.

 

I always tip on my card. I know too many waiters who skimp on their civic duty by under-reporting cash tips to dodge taxes. At least if there's a paper trail, they're more likely to pay what they're supposed to.

 

 

when i worked at bob evans as a kid one summer bussing tables i told the wait staff they better treat me good because i get to the tables first.

I typically pay my bill on the card but I always try and tip in cash so the waiter can keep a bit more of the tip that way.

 

I always tip on my card. I know too many waiters who skimp on their civic duty by under-reporting cash tips to dodge taxes. At least if there's a paper trail, they're more likely to pay what they're supposed to.

 

we all pay too much in taxes. If I can put a few more bucks in the pocket of my waiter without having to pay more myself, I am happy to do so.

It's interesting how cultural of an issue this is. When I was living in Italy two years ago I had to get used to paying in cash and even, gasp, carrying coins around. You can use cards in most restaurants and stores but it's generally considered insane to do it for things less than about €20. I pretty much got used to cash for any and all meals. Cards were still used for things like train tickets from machines.

 

It is easier because prices end in even Euros or at least €0.50, so no need for pennies, nickels, and dimes for change every time you want to pay in cash. That made it a lot nicer. And that's what makes cash a pain in the butt here in the USA.

 

Germans are even more cash-inclined than Italians, while the British seem to use credit cards like Americans do.

 

When I got back to the states I stuck with cash for a good six months but now I'm pretty much back to where I was before ever leaving - lots of credit card swipes for tiny amounts, and no cash in my wallet at the moment.

^The armored car, coin blank and credit card industries make sure our cash system stays in the inflationless 1800s.

It's interesting how cultural of an issue this is. When I was living in Italy two years ago I had to get used to paying in cash and even, gasp, carrying coins around. You can use cards in most restaurants and stores but it's generally considered insane to do it for things less than about €20. I pretty much got used to cash for any and all meals. Cards were still used for things like train tickets from machines.

 

It is easier because prices end in even Euros or at least €0.50, so no need for pennies, nickels, and dimes for change every time you want to pay in cash. That made it a lot nicer. And that's what makes cash a pain in the butt here in the USA.

 

Germans are even more cash-inclined than Italians, while the British seem to use credit cards like Americans do.

 

When I got back to the states I stuck with cash for a good six months but now I'm pretty much back to where I was before ever leaving - lots of credit card swipes for tiny amounts, and no cash in my wallet at the moment.

 

Try Japan.  You'd think in a tech-driven country they'd accept credit cards everywhere.  Nope.  Get used to 7-11 ATMs!

I was in Shanghai a few weeks ago and it’s rapidly getting to be a cashless society, at least in the CBD and modern retail stores in middle to upper class areas. Everyone and I mean everyone uses contactless payment. Case in point, I went to the Starbucks on the ground floor of the office building I was working out of. I pulled out my corporate credit card to pay and that started a hunt for the CC machine, followed by a 2 minute training session for the staff on how to use it. For the rest of the week every time they saw me coming they reached under the counter and took the machine out!

Why?

 

I dislike paying with cards.  Cash is usually a lot faster than a card, too.

 

A modern restaurant POS system automatically reports credit card tips.  A waiter or bartender or pizza man then estimates his cash tips at the end of the shift and enters about 10% of what they actually collected.  In extreme cases a waiter actually owes their company money at the end of the week because so much is withheld from their check that they don't get a check. 

 

Uber drivers are 1099 contractors so they are absolutely nailed by the IRS each year.  They are typically paying HIGHER FEDERAL TAX RATES than their rich passengers.  If you pay a traditional cab driver who is driving the company's cab with cash, they actually make money. An Uber driver driving his own car and having 40% of his income taxed + $100 depreciation per shift has no hope of actually making money. 

 

 

 

 

^ dislike and cash is faster aren't really smart reasons to avoid building a credit history.

 

what's your hurry?

 

you need to use credit to get better terms for major loans like home, car, etc.

 

it shows how trustworthy you are for paying that big ticket stuff back.

 

if you don't like the card game, just pay it all off every month.

 

I've gotten tons of free flights and hotel rooms from credit cards.  If you're a person like me who just pays off the full balance every month you're turning down thousands of free dollars by using cash.  Of course if you're a person who doesn't pay off your credit card every month then you are the ones making those companies all their money. 

 

Same. I pay for almost everything on credit and then pay off my bill in full every month. I totally understand why some businesses are cash only to avoid credit card fees. But at places that accept cards, those fees are already factored into the cost of what you're buying, so you might as well use a credit card and get some benefits from it.

As a business owner, I prefer credit cards because it is so much easier to manage than having a bunch of people pay cash. However, cash also has advantages over credit cards in areas too for the business owner. It is a trade off that each business needs to decide what is best for themselves.

A lot of places that are cash only are doing it so that they can cook the books.

A lot of places that are cash only are doing it so that they can cook the books.

 

I always feel like cash only places are wither laundering money (overstating income) or avoiding taxes (understating income.)

^ dislike and cash is faster aren't really smart reasons to avoid building a credit history.

 

what's your hurry?

 

you need to use credit to get better terms for major loans like home, car, etc.

 

it shows how trustworthy you are for paying that big ticket stuff back.

 

if you don't like the card game, just pay it all off every month.

 

 

Just because other people with poor impulse control and poor taste run up terrible credit card bills doesn't mean you'll turn into them if you use a credit card. I still pay cash often, but online banking allows me to put on my green accounting visor and review my spending.