@johnyungphat

Every time I see an article about E-Scooter Share I just sub out the word Bird/Lime with car to see if there is a bias. There is.

Bird wants to add more scooters to Cincinnati, but the city wants something first

 

Bird Rides, the California-based startup that provides electric scooters for rent in downtown Cincinnati, wants to add more of the vehicles to the urban basin, but there are a few kinks to work out before that can happen.

 

Bird Rides Inc. launched a fleet of dockless electronic scooters in Cincinnati on July 26, and they've since become almost ubiquitous downtown. Riders download the Bird app, scan a code on an available scooter and zip off. Scooters cost $1 to unlock and then 15 cents per minute to ride.

 

Bird launched with a fleet of scooters downtown without first consulting the city. Cincinnati came to a deal with the company on Aug. 8 to permit the scooters on the streets, but it imposed some rules: Bird was limited to 100 scooters and must sign an indemnity agreement with the city, meet minimum insurance requirements and provide a customer service contact phone number.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/08/29/bird-wants-to-add-more-scooters-to-cincinnati-but.html

 

Good thing we got rid of the @BirdRide scooters that were a nuisance in the public right of way because these cars on @CLEPublicSquare might not have a place to park otherwise. @SceneSallard @BollardsofCTown @chrisronayne #CLEParkingSquare https://t.co/GVpTuWZ7cA

A guy pushing two Birds up the super-steep Monastery St. hill:

 

I asked him as I passed and he said he was taking them up the hill to charge them.  That's a lot of effort to make...$15~?

I saw a Bird yesterday with the head ripped off and just wires dangling out of the top of the stem.  Where is the GPS device in these?  Is it easily removed?  Does the GPS work when the power is removed?

A guy pushing two Birds up the super-steep Monastery St. hill:

 

I asked him as I passed and he said he was taking them up the hill to charge them.  That's a lot of effort to make...$15~?

 

Well, they could be worth as much as $40, and almost surely more than $15. It's easy to find ones that are worth $10+ if you walk around a bit. And if he was out walking for exercise anyway then it doesn't really require much work to just grab a couple and roll them home up the hill.

Columbus sets preliminary rules for scooter drivers

 

...

Mayor Andrew Ginther's administration is setting these "emergency" rules until City Council acts:

 

*Understand and follow all traffic laws. A driver’s license is not required, but riders need to be at least 16 years old.

*Those under 18 years old must wear a helmet.

*Don’t ride on the sidewalk. Only ride on the sidewalk when parking or going to or from an adjacent property.

*For scooter users only, ride only on streets with speed limits of 35 mph or less.

*For scooter users only, don’t go faster than 20 mph.

*Don’t put more than one rider on a scooter. Also, don’t hitch your device to another vehicle.

*Don’t ride more than two side by side.

*Take care to brake safely.

*Don’t carry packages or other items that keep you from having one hand on the handlebars at all times.

*Watch where you park. Park the device on the sidewalk in a way that does not block pedestrians’ movement.

*Devices need to have a white headlight and red rear reflectors if you ride at night.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2018/09/05/columbus-sets-preliminary-rules-for-scooter.html

Downtown Cincinnati is now about 50 minutes into an absolute deluge of a downpour, complete with intermittent hail (I took a hit to the arm by a nickle sized piece) and a few lighting strikes every minute. I'd be surprised if we don't end up with over 2 inches of rain over the course of about an hours time. About 20 minutes into the storm I spotted a guy leisurely scooting down the sidewalk on his Bird.

Weatherman said you guys got 13 inches of rain in July.

Here's how much Bird and Lime paid Nashville to park their scooters

 

 

Scooter companies Bird and Lime may have hundreds of scooters dotting Nashville streets, but they had to pay a steep price to get them there.

 

As part of the permitting process, both companies paid $18,000 last week to release up to 500 scooters throughout Nashville, according to the Metropolitan Department of Public Works. Bird and Lime are the only companies to receive permits so far.

 

Under the city's recently passed ordinance, companies hoping to operate in Nashville must pay an annual $500 application fee, in addition to $35 for each scooter they'd like to deploy. At 500 scooters, Bird and Lime are both at the maximum amount of scooters they can operate during their first month in Nashville.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2018/09/06/heres-how-much-bird-and-lime-paid-nashville-to.html

What is the justification for needing a permit? Usually there has to be some tangible benefit to justify a tax or fee, doesn't there?

What is the justification for needing a permit? Usually there has to be some tangible benefit to justify a tax or fee, doesn't there?

 

The ability to leave unattended scooters in the public right of way would be one.

What is the justification for needing a permit? Usually there has to be some tangible benefit to justify a tax or fee, doesn't there?

If the scooters are creating additional work for the City (which appears to be the case), then it seems totally reasonable to require a tax/fee.

Downtown Cincinnati is now about 50 minutes into an absolute deluge of a downpour, complete with intermittent hail (I took a hit to the arm by a nickle sized piece) and a few lighting strikes every minute. I'd be surprised if we don't end up with over 2 inches of rain over the course of about an hours time. About 20 minutes into the storm I spotted a guy leisurely scooting down the sidewalk on his Bird.

Not all heroes wear capes.

Columbus wants Bird, Lime to pay hefty fees to operate here

 

 

Like all the electric scooters around town? Think the owners will fork over $38,000 to keep them here?

 

Columbus seems to think so.

 

Each vendor would have to pay $500 for an operating permit, according to the current plan to regulate the sharable electric scooters.

 

After that fee is paid, an additional $80 one-time fee would be charged as well as the whopper – $75 per scooter. Combined, that's a little over $38,000 for each vendor that maxes out how many scooters it can deploy on city streets.

 

And, it compares with, say, Nashville, where the operators are being charged less than $20,000 for the same number of scooters.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2018/09/07/columbus-wants-bird-lime-to-pay-hefty-fees-to.html

Each vendor would have to pay $500 for an operating permit, according to the current plan to regulate the sharable electric scooters.

 

After that fee is paid, an additional $80 one-time fee would be charged as well as the whopper – $75 per scooter. Combined, that's a little over $38,000 for each vendor that maxes out how many scooters it can deploy on city streets.

 

That's a little hyperbolic- at $0.15 per minute, $38,000 is only 70 hours of revenue. There's also a $1.00 charge for each use. This "whopper" payment could probably be paid in a few days.

Cincinnati: Bird rival launches its own electronic scooters downtown

 

Bird Rides Inc. launched its fleet of dockless electronic scooters in Cincinnati in July, and now its chief rival has populated downtown Cincinnati with its own shareable scooters.

 

Lime, which launched dockless bicycles on the campus of Xavier University in August – dockless meaning that, unlike RedBike, they don't have to be picked up from and returned to a designated station – unleashed a fleet of electronic scooters called Lime-S in downtown Cincinnati on Tuesday.

 

Lime-S scooters appeared on Cincinnati streets early Sept. 11. The Lime app shows dozens of scooters throughout downtown Cincinnati and Over-the-Rhine, but a final count was not immediately available.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/09/11/bird-rival-launches-its-own-electronic-scooters.html

Begun, the scooter wars have.

is there a difference between the two?

is there a difference between the two?

 

I think the Bird's generally have larger wheels.

is there a difference between the two?

 

The Limes have (or had?) a Speedometer.  They're generally a bit bigger and have more foot space than the Birds.  They also go slightly faster in my experience.

it will be interesting to see how this whole scooter thing plays out over the next year or 2.

Less than 3 days use:

it will be interesting to see how this whole scooter thing plays out over the next year or 2.

 

Scroll through the bicycles on Craigslist.  Lots and lots of circa-2015 fixies. 

Lime mishap at lunch today on Walnut St. between 4th & 3rd. It appeared that he just lost control...

Scooter safety dominates discussion at public forum as City Council considers rules

 

Scooters have been a hot-button issue in Columbus in recent weeks and the debate over the ubiquitous ride-sharing vehicles came to Columbus City Council on Tuesday.

 

Council members heard from concerned citizens during a crowded public forum at City Hall as they prepare to implement legislation regulating scooters and other mobility devices.

 

Columbus resident Sharon Montgomery said she appreciated proposed rules detailing how and where riders can use scooters, but was worried the devices "make the big picture of road-use even more complex."

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2018/09/18/scooter-safety-dominates-discussion-at-public.html

Bird expands options for scooter riders

 

Bird Rides Inc., the California-based startup that provides electric scooters for rent in downtown Cincinnati, is providing more options for users to take advantage of its service.

 

The company announced Thursday that it will debut Bird Delivery in multiple cities where it operates in the near future. Bird Delivery will allow riders to request a scooter be delivered to their home or business by 8 a.m. for their personal all-day use.

 

Currently, the dockless electric scooters are scattered throughout Cincinnati’s urban core and can be rented using an app for $1 plus 15 cents per minute they’re in use. Once a rider gets to a destination, the scooter becomes available for others to use.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/10/05/bird-expands-options-for-scooter-riders.html

I saw a gigantic woman on a Bird rolling down Clifton Ave. on Sunday.  I was too slow with the phone.  It was quite a sight. 

Scooter startups Bird and Lime hit with class-action lawsuit, called a 'public nuisance'

 

 

Accusing the startups of “gross negligence,” a class-action lawsuit has been filed against Bird Rides Inc., LimeBike and other companies involved in the proliferation of shared electric scooters.

 

The complaint, filed Friday in Los Angeles Superior Court and spotted by The Washington Post, accuses the defendants of “aiding and abetting assault” by contributing to injuries sustained from collisions with the scooters.

 

Three of the lawsuit’s eight initial plaintiffs allege they were pedestrians hit by scooters from behind, including 62-year-old David Peterson, who told the Post he was struck by a scooter in June, suffering a fractured arm and severed biceps. The rider fled the scene.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2018/10/23/scooter-startups-bird-and-lime-hit-with-class.html

On 10/23/2018 at 11:57 PM, ColDayMan said:

The complaint, filed Friday in Los Angeles Superior Court and spotted by The Washington Post, accuses the defendants of “aiding and abetting assault” by contributing to injuries sustained from collisions with the scooters.

 

We need to ban these horrible assault scooters immediately!!!

 

*No mention of cars which kill ~5,000 pedestrians a year*

The number of scooters in Cincinnati has increased exponentially over the past few weeks.  I went out for a bike ride last weekend and repeatedly had to stop to let chaotic scooter traffic clear.  People riding the wrong way, 2 people on a single scooter, people making illegal turns, etc. 

 

There is a big difference between scooters and cars.  Cars stay in the street and wrong-way traffic is rare.  People own their cars and so don't want to damage them.  The scooters are lawless and quiet.  They don't care if they hit something with something they don't own. 

 

 

You get in a car crash and you know that it's going to cost you your deductible, you'll miss work and have to spend hours and hours on the phone part of the phone afterward.

Also, there has been all of this chatter for years about how more people would bike if we had bike lanes.  Well, scooter riders don't seem to care.  They aren't hesitating to ride pretty much anywhere.  With traffic, against traffic, in front of traffic, etc. 

 

So maybe people don't want to bike because they don't want to pedal a bike, not because of safety worries.  What will be interesting is that in 3-4 years we should have a lot of electric bikes in most cities, and then we'll see if there is something about the actual physicality of a bicycle -- electric or not -- that causes non-bicyclists to prefer scooters. 

In Cleveland they popped up like elsewhere, but they've since disappeared.  Can't say I'm sad.

Great article about the history of the Segway company up to present day scooter sharing with a Cincinnati reference to boot: https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/30/tech/segway-history/index.html

Ford and GM are in the scooter business.  It's pretty obvious at this point that people all over the country prefer electric scooters to pedal bicycles, and an electric bicycle can't do anything that an electric scooter can't.  An electric bike costs $2,000.  An electric scooter costs $350.  Do the math - it's over for bikes and bike share. 

 

I think the car companies have two big aims at this point:

1. keep scooter sharing private and for-profit, not public and not-for-profit.  There is no reason why cities/transit agencies can't be running these profitable scooter operations while banning for-profit scooter sharing except for the fact that local officials aren't smart enough to realize what's going on. 

2. car companies will use the needs of scooters to reconfigure city streets in such a way as to favor autonomous cars. 

 

So quit talking about bike lanes and bike helmets.  It's over.  Bike share will be dead, nationwide, in ten years.  Bicycling will continue in its recreational forms but bikes-for-real-transportation are going to become even more insignificant than they are now. 

Not so sure about scooter dominance in their current form. The wheels are too small to handle imperfect pavement, and people aren't going to want to stand if given the option. An ebike with "throttle mode," or without pedal-assist altogether, would be a superior vehicle that would still not require physical exertion. I don't know how much foot-positioning matters to people, but if pedal-assist is out, the foot rest could go anywhere.

^ Like this:

https://timesofsandiego.com/business/2018/10/21/razor-introduces-dockless-scooter-with-seat-and-basket-to-san-diego/

I think the endgame is someone reinventing the Vespa. 

Just now, carnevalem said:

I think the endgame is someone reinventing the Vespa. 

We know techbros are good at reinvention, so... I wouldn't bet against it.

Those things are way too complicated.  A stand-up scooter gets away with small wheels and no suspension because your knees are the suspension. 

 

Bird brought new models to Cincinnati within the last few weeks that have bigger batteries and are much more powerful on the hills.  Last weekend I was able to zip up a 1-mile, 12% grade while only draining 20% of the power.  The original scooters almost completely blew a full charge on that same hill. 

We're going to see a lot of different applications that leverage cheap batteries and electric motors. I'm not at all confident of what the mix of vehicles (kick scooters, ebikes, vespa-style scooters, golf cart style "quads") will look like in 5-10 years, but I'm excited that we're seeing a proliferation of new designs. I'm sure there will be a combination of shared and privately owned vehicles, but again... not sure what the mix will be. 

 

Here's a great podcast on the topic of "micromobility", if you're interested: http://5by5.tv/micromobility

 

 

 

 

 

None of this stuff is going to replace buses or cars or really improve mobility for most people.  It's just going to induce demand for frivolous trips.  Those trips were previously on foot or simply didn't happen. 

 

Like with the impending 18-month L train shutdown in NYC -- the thing induces demand just like how free expressways induce demand and super-cheap jet travel induces demand.  Most of the trips people are taking on it now on that subway line will simply cease to occur when it is shut down.  Some will walk to other subway lines, some will take the bus, but for the most part, people will simply stop traveling to Manhattan and vice-verse. 

 

If people are taking frivolous trips on micromobiles, they'll be more inclined to consider those modes for normal trips, too. And it should greatly improve the safety of roads for cyclists and utilitarian scooter-riders when cars are used to so many smaller vehicles on the road.

City streets are already safe to bicycle on if you're not an idiot.  Cars just don't erratically swerve and go crazy, and if they do, it doesn't matter if you're on a bike or walking on the sidewalk.  When I see people on group rides that I've previously seen online complaining about cars, it becomes obvious that they just weren't cut out to ride a bicycle.  They're skittish and just don't have a sense for what is going on out in traffic. 

 

What's more, I think the visibility one has while standing on a scooter is superior to that while seated on a bicycle.  Hunch over in the chair you're sitting in right now and look to the left or right.  Your head's range of motion is limited.  Meanwhile, one can move your whole body to the left or right while standing on a scooter, so you aren't straining your neck to turn to the same degree. 

 

As I've mentioned earlier on this thread, jock alpha-males who took no interest in bicycles are riding the scooters without hesitation on streets that have no bike lanes.  I doubt that these people are going to waste their time advocating for lanes that they themselves do not need.   

 

It's not about drivers erratically swerving, it's about drivers 1) simply not looking for things with the size of a person on a bike on the road, 2) misjudging the speeds at which a bicycle can go (or is going), 3) forgetting what hand signals mean since they rarely see people using them, and 4) not looking before opening their car door.

 

I've used a bike as my primary mode of transportation for more than a decade. I ride every day, in all weather. Many people driving cars are really oblivious to the presence of bikes and how a rational cyclist will behave (speed, signals, etc.). It's bad enough with the way some people are frequently oblivious to other cars, but what would be a minor fender-bender with another motor vehicle could be a major injury or fatality for a cyclist or scooter rider, so of course it's dangerous when you pair that with the factors listed above.

 

All of those listed factors are mitigated when bikes (or scooters) are ubiquitous and the driver expects to have to watch for them, and knows how to judge their potential speed and interpret their hand signals. Even better is if most drivers have the experience of riding bikes or scooters in the road, thereby being able to put themselves into the shoes of the people they're dealing with out there on the road.

 

Data backs all this up. Cycling is safer per mile in places where cycling is commonplace.

It's your job while on a bicycle to anticipate when a car can't see you.  You -- the bicyclist -- need to make eye contact with drivers to make sure that they know you're there before you do anything.  You can't ever assume that they see you.  If you aren't absolutely certain that a driver knows what you are about to do, don't do it.  Just go over to the curb, take your foot off the pedal, and wait for the situation to clear.   You need to anticipate, for example, when a turning car can't see you because the corner pillar is blocking their vision. 

 

 

 

Most of today's cars have truly horrible visibility outside of them as compared to cars of 20 years ago. Sedan, SUV, pickup truck, crossover -- it doesn't matter. When I'm in my IROC-Z I can see everything and never even have to think about "blind spots". Today's sky-high vehicles have to have super thick roof pillars, huge butts and tall doors because they are always trying to flip over and have to be able to be smashed into by 6000 pound SUVs. Most drivers aren't able to compensate for this and are more careless and more likely to create accidents that would have never happened in cars from 20 years ago.

Also, Bluetooth through the car stereo speakers has been standard on almost all cars and phones since 2010 yet people still don't take 5 minutes to set it up and thus spend hours a week driving around with the phone plastered to their left ear on hold with call centers or the public sector. I have also retrofitted the aforementioned IROC-Z with this feature that comes with most aftermarket head units today.