Not sure if this yet deserves its own topic (move or remove if necessary), but some interesting tidbits...

 

"The next step is a complicated one, because it involves building or acquiring a facility that will house a United Soccer League team."

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20180715/news/168266/force-sports-lofty-goal-return-cleveland-force

 

"According to Kleps, the USL would prefer that all clubs have soccer-specific stadiums by "the end of the decade." And the earliest the Force could return looks to be 2020, provided a venue (with a minimum of 5,000 seats) has been acquired or constructed. The Abrams brothers told Kleps that they are in that process and that various sites, including in downtown Cleveland, are being considered."

 

https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2018/07/19/owners-of-force-sports-want-to-bring-pro-soccer-back-to-cleveland

Pretty curious to hear the sites they are currently considering...

Cautiously optimistic about this one, but my support for a team basically 100% hinges on them having a decent venue for this downtown or in a surrounding neighborhood.  There is also one example in the league (in Indianapolis) of a team playing at an NFL venue, although an expected avg crowd of 5-10k in Browns Stadium wouldn't be ideal.

 

The USL has grown a lot, and you need to have deep pockets to secure a team ($5mil expansion fee + enough net worth to meet U.S. Soccer Division II requirements).  For example the Cincinnati team, which draws very well at UC and is jumping up to MLS next year, is owned by the Lindner family with an est net worth of ~$2bil.

As a life long Crew fan living in Columbus, I'm hoping for a day where Columbus, Cincinnati, and Cleveland all have MLS teams. At this point, it's looking like the best case scenario is for Columbus and Cincinnati to be in MLS and Cleveland to be in USL, and even that excites me. Cleveland being in the USL and possibly having their own stadium would create an amazing opportunity for Cleveland-Columbus and Cleveland-Cincinnati matchups in the Open Cup. I think an Ohio Cup preseason friendly event could also be really cool.

Cautiously optimistic about this one, but my support for a team basically 100% hinges on them having a decent venue for this downtown or in a surrounding neighborhood.  There is also one example in the league (in Indianapolis) of a team playing at an NFL venue, although an expected avg crowd of 5-10k in Browns Stadium wouldn't be ideal.

 

The USL has grown a lot, and you need to have deep pockets to secure a team ($5mil expansion fee + enough net worth to meet U.S. Soccer Division II requirements).  For example the Cincinnati team, which draws very well at UC and is jumping up to MLS next year, is owned by the Lindner family with an est net worth of ~$2bil.

 

Lol I agree.

 

Stadium in Ohio City, Detroit Shoreway, Tremont, Downtown, University Circle, Uptown, Little Italy, Edgewater = I'm buying season tickets.

 

Stadium in Strongsville, Parma, Mentor, Shaker Heights, Westlake, Avon, Garfield = Cleveland has a USL team?

Cautiously optimistic about this one, but my support for a team basically 100% hinges on them having a decent venue for this downtown or in a surrounding neighborhood.  There is also one example in the league (in Indianapolis) of a team playing at an NFL venue, although an expected avg crowd of 5-10k in Browns Stadium wouldn't be ideal.

 

The USL has grown a lot, and you need to have deep pockets to secure a team ($5mil expansion fee + enough net worth to meet U.S. Soccer Division II requirements).  For example the Cincinnati team, which draws very well at UC and is jumping up to MLS next year, is owned by the Lindner family with an est net worth of ~$2bil.

 

Lol I agree.

 

Stadium in Ohio City, Detroit Shoreway, Tremont, Downtown, University Circle, Uptown, Little Italy, Edgewater = I'm buying season tickets.

 

Stadium in Strongsville, Parma, Mentor, Shaker Heights, Westlake, Avon, Garfield = Cleveland has a USL team?

 

This was the catch 22 with the original Wolstein MSL plan. He had the deep pockets, connections and the passion. But he would have sited the stadium somewhere southeast in suburban outlet mall land.

 

The long 20 year delay for CLE pro soccer may well turn out as a blessing in disguise.

 

 

How often is Krenzler Field used? And is it only for CSU Soccer?

How often is Krenzler Field used? And is it only for CSU Soccer?

Krenzler Field is used for the most part year round, as they have club soccer games going on there as well as the CSU team's home games.

How often is Krenzler Field used? And is it only for CSU Soccer?

It's used in the fall for mens and womens soccer and the spring for lacrosse. In winter months, they put a bubble over it to use it as a practice facility. 

 

It's conceivable these teams could share a facility with a pro soccer team (whose season runs March to OCT/NOV), but Krenzler would have to be significantly upgraded to meet USL standards.

hey a new soccer stadium would look great right along the waterfront.

 

j/k

 

somewhere in midtown would be awesome though. or along the soccer opportunity highway.

Once I had a whimsical idea for a stadium site, bookended by Tower Press and the Public Safety building. Unfortunately I don't think it would quite fit.

There seems to be a huge range of fields in the USL- everything from 2,000 capacity to 20,000+.  Most are clustered in the 5-8,000 capacity range.  The space and money required to build them similarly varies.  Some look like HS stadiums, othere look fully pro with great grandstands.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soccer-specific_stadium#Current_USL_soccer-specific_stadiums

Once I had a whimsical idea for a stadium site, bookended by Tower Press and the Public Safety building. Unfortunately I don't think it would quite fit.

 

I think that would be too small- they seem to need at least 400x400 for the small ones, and that space is 300 and some change square.

 

The larger fields are more in the 600x500' ft range.

 

Edit- Just looking around and measuring spaces in Google Earth, I can say even a small USL stadium will be a beast to locate in city.  There's no space in Downtown, UC or the near westside that this would fit without demolitions and road closures- it would take more than any single block.  It could go in Clark Field or the open space east of the Zone Recreation Center, but the community outcry would probably kill it.  It could maybe go somewhere in the Forgotten Triangle, but will it have a chance to succeed in such a challenging location? 

 

Maybe the best location I saw would be in the area of all the gravel piles in Stone's Levee.  There's space, and if it's done in concert with that development that is already planned for there they could help each other succeed.

it would be ideal if it could be somehow sited and built to be able to be expanded if the team is moved up to the msl. like to create a soccer town type neighborhood around it. probably not though, a bump up to msl would mean another all new stadium.

Once I had a whimsical idea for a stadium site, bookended by Tower Press and the Public Safety building. Unfortunately I don't think it would quite fit.

 

I think that would be too small- they seem to need at least 400x400 for the small ones, and that space is 300 and some change square.

 

The larger fields are more in the 600x500' ft range.

 

Yeah....and if you want to attract more international matches you want the larger field.

 

Agree with mrnyc wherever they choose it would be great to see a "soccer town" evolve there.

Stones Levee/Scranton Peninsula area with a tie in to a redeveloped back end (or is that the front end?) of Tower City with a potential indoor soccer training facility would be a dream.  5000-6000 seat stadium that could also be used for concerts, HS soccer (Ignatius, playoffs, etc.). Perhaps also try to draw an top 25 Akron Men's soccer game here once a year- maybe even a BW vs. JCU or JCU vs. Case/ Akron vs. CSU doubleheader.  With our relationship with the MAC basketball, perhaps a tourney could be born there too with Ohio and MAC colleges.

 

I wouldn't realistically even think about MLS.  I am all about thinking big, but, for right now, getting a successful USL franchise, development, etc. would be a huge win.  To get this type of facility that could also then help for propel Cleveland as an area for more US National Team games (Men or Women), CONCACAF games, etc. would be amazing.  New outdoor/indoor facility would be used for training and practice for the US or national teams and Browns stadium would still then be used for the actual US Soccer, CONCACAF, Gold Cup matches.

 

Dan Gilbert is all about getting an MLS team in Detroit, but perhaps this should be a focus the help build on TC, Q, etc.

^ that would be a cool siting for sure. if they ever did bump up to the msl they could just get rid of it and keep redeveloping the new neighborhood around it. even if they dont bump up i agree its still a great catalyst for such a cool and uniquely/utterly clevelandy site like that.

Most of these stadiums appear to be somewhat "modular"- so that stands and facilities on either side or end of the field are separate structures.  It should make it easier to resize the whole if demand or league promotion warrants a larger facility.

I mentioned in another thread, but Scranton peninsula would obviously be a cool place for a stadium and could be an early "anchor" to any development. It has the added advantage of being very accessible by transit, and there would be many pre/post-game drinking options in walking distance :)  It would also be located near large hispanic and immigrant communities, which make up a big share of the soccer fan base in the U.S.

 

While it would certainly make sense to design a stadium possible future expansion in mind, it's hard to see a scenario in the near future where an MLS team would be viable alongside the 3 existing major league teams. None of the similarly-sized markets in MLS have more than 1 or 2 other local teams to compete with.

 

 

I mentioned in another thread, but Scranton peninsula would obviously be a cool place for a stadium and could be an early "anchor" to any development. It has the added advantage of being very accessible by transit, and there would be many pre/post-game drinking options in walking distance :)  It would also be located near large hispanic and immigrant communities, which make up a big share of the soccer fan base in the U.S.

 

While it would certainly make sense to design a stadium possible future expansion in mind, it's hard to see a scenario in the near future where an MLS team would be viable alongside the 3 existing major league teams. None of the similarly-sized markets in MLS have more than 1 or 2 other local teams to compete with.

 

I actually think an MLS team would be viable in Cleveland. People forget that this is the largest media market in the state. And there’s also a lot of soccer fans in the area. I saw this first hand when my company used to produce shows for the old Cleveland City Stars. If they had a stadium that’s not too big and in an ideal location and the on the field product is competitive, they’ll find themselves selling out quickly

I mentioned in another thread, but Scranton peninsula would obviously be a cool place for a stadium and could be an early "anchor" to any development. It has the added advantage of being very accessible by transit, and there would be many pre/post-game drinking options in walking distance :)  It would also be located near large hispanic and immigrant communities, which make up a big share of the soccer fan base in the U.S.

 

While it would certainly make sense to design a stadium possible future expansion in mind, it's hard to see a scenario in the near future where an MLS team would be viable alongside the 3 existing major league teams. None of the similarly-sized markets in MLS have more than 1 or 2 other local teams to compete with.

 

I actually think an MLS team would be viable in Cleveland. People forget that this is the largest media market in the state. And there’s also a lot of soccer fans in the area. I saw this first hand when my company used to produce shows for the old Cleveland City Stars. If they had a stadium that’s not too big and in an ideal location and the on the field product is competitive, they’ll find themselves selling out quickly

 

MLS could possibly be successful in Cleveland, but I think MLS would be opposed at least for the foreseeable future for a couple reasons.

 

First, Cleveland is very saturated, if not over saturated, already when it comes to sports. Cleveland is the 16th largest CSA in the country. There is only one CSA (Pittsburgh) with a smaller population than Cleveland that has three major sports.  Cleveland has NFL, MLB, and NBA; and Pittsburgh has NFL, MLB, and NHL. Both cities are certainly on the threshold of being able to support three major pro sports teams and were mostly grandfathered in to having all three to the size of each city many decades ago compared to the rest of the country. At any given time, each city has one of its three teams that gets put on the back burner in terms of attendance. That team tends to be the MLB team in each city, but I think the Cavs and Indians are about to flip spots in Cleveland.

 

Second, the state of Ohio will already be saturated with MLS teams. FCC is joining next year and things are starting to look promising for the Crew to be saved. There is not a single professional sport with three teams in Ohio, and I doubt MLS will be the first unless they end up with 48 teams split into two divisions with pro/rel.

 

Finally, Cleveland isn't viewed as an up and coming hip city. I personally think Cleveland is a very cool and fun city, but MLS tends to be blinded by the cool new things. I don't think they would Cleveland much of a thought unless they pulled a Cincy and started pulling 20k-30k at USL games.

 

I would personally love having three MLS teams in Ohio, but I simply don't think it will happen unless MLS expands well past 30 teams.

Once I had a whimsical idea for a stadium site, bookended by Tower Press and the Public Safety building. Unfortunately I don't think it would quite fit.

 

I think that would be too small- they seem to need at least 400x400 for the small ones, and that space is 300 and some change square.

 

The larger fields are more in the 600x500' ft range.

 

Edit- Just looking around and measuring spaces in Google Earth, I can say even a small USL stadium will be a beast to locate in city.  There's no space in Downtown, UC or the near westside that this would fit without demolitions and road closures- it would take more than any single block.  It could go in Clark Field or the open space east of the Zone Recreation Center, but the community outcry would probably kill it.  It could maybe go somewhere in the Forgotten Triangle, but will it have a chance to succeed in such a challenging location? 

 

Maybe the best location I saw would be in the area of all the gravel piles in Stone's Levee.  There's space, and if it's done in concert with that development that is already planned for there they could help each other succeed.

 

What about the old Midland Steel site at Madison and West 106th? It's huge (> 700 x 1000') and close to two rapid stations. As of one year ago, Weston was in line to purchase it from the city: http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20170719/news/170719782/weston-surfaces-midland-steel-site-buyer

 

Another possibility is the cleared site bound by E9th, Broadway, 14th and Orange. Probably tight, but if the city vacated that end segment of Broadway, could work. Potential for new rapid station and even some surface parking to the southeast.

 

There are some other large sites southeast of there, too, which seem pretty sparsely used.

 

I vote a hard no to Scranton Peninsula. The last thing we should do is add a huge sporadic parking demand to that area if we want it to bloom as a medium/high density residential neighborhood.

What happened with the lot that was "set aside" for the Browns when Art Modell wanted to build a new stadium? Isn't there room around gateway?

 

EDIT: Never mind I looked at an aerial view and saw that the area around the stadiums are not big enough at all. I misjudged the space.

Once I had a whimsical idea for a stadium site, bookended by Tower Press and the Public Safety building. Unfortunately I don't think it would quite fit.

 

I think that would be too small- they seem to need at least 400x400 for the small ones, and that space is 300 and some change square.

 

The larger fields are more in the 600x500' ft range.

 

Edit- Just looking around and measuring spaces in Google Earth, I can say even a small USL stadium will be a beast to locate in city.  There's no space in Downtown, UC or the near westside that this would fit without demolitions and road closures- it would take more than any single block.  It could go in Clark Field or the open space east of the Zone Recreation Center, but the community outcry would probably kill it.  It could maybe go somewhere in the Forgotten Triangle, but will it have a chance to succeed in such a challenging location? 

 

Maybe the best location I saw would be in the area of all the gravel piles in Stone's Levee.  There's space, and if it's done in concert with that development that is already planned for there they could help each other succeed.

 

What about the old Midland Steel site at Madison and West 106th? It's huge (> 700 x 1000') and close to two rapid stations. As of one year ago, Weston was in line to purchase it from the city: http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20170719/news/170719782/weston-surfaces-midland-steel-site-buyer

 

Another possibility is the cleared site bound by E9th, Broadway, 14th and Orange. Probably tight, but if the city vacated that end segment of Broadway, could work. Potential for new rapid station and even some surface parking to the southeast.

 

There are some other large sites southeast of there, too, which seem pretty sparsely used.

 

I vote a hard no to Scranton Peninsula. The last thing we should do is add a huge sporadic parking demand to that area if we want it to bloom as a medium/high density residential neighborhood.

 

I doubt the city would want to vacate a newly constructed portion of Broadway, and that second site you mentioned would be too small without doing that.  The Forgotten Triangle is the area to the SE of there, but the question is if USL would want to set their stadium in a portion of the city that's in that rough shape.  Maybe- not likely.  The Midland Steel site could have potential, though.

 

Another potential site might be along Morgana's Run, between E. 49th and 55th.  Plenty of space, good highway access and visibility, could see some spin off development happen along Broadway or Fleet.  The old St. Michael's site, next to the Velodrome, could be another candidate.  Both of these sites (and Midland Steel) face the same problem as the Forgotten Triangle, though to a lesser degree.  If we built a soccer stadium there, would people want to go there for a game?

We've mentioned putting it where Krenzler Field is, which would be a tight fit, but possible if they could get rid of the baseball diamond and maybe even the transfer station.  But I just remembered that CSU wants to get rid of Wolstein Center, and that site is definitely large enough.  They could then build a USL/CSU Soccer (and maybe someday football!) stadium on Wolstein Center's location and build the housing they were hoping to build there on the site of Krenzler Field. 

 

Problem solved!

There seems to be a huge range of fields in the USL- everything from 2,000 capacity to 20,000+.  Most are clustered in the 5-8,000 capacity range.  The space and money required to build them similarly varies.  Some look like HS stadiums, othere look fully pro with great grandstands.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soccer-specific_stadium#Current_USL_soccer-specific_stadiums

 

Something to keep in mind is that several teams currently in Division 2 USL will likely jump down to the new USL Division 3. The league is quickly moving towards franchises at the D2 level who play in relatively good facilities (although a lot of them will be using minor league baseball stadia for the foreseeable future). Louisville City is about to make waves with their new stadium and Colorado Springs seem to have also firmed up a rather good 10,000 seat stadium plan.

 

The nice thing at the USL level is you can pull off a relatively cheap modular stadium. Phoenix Rising FC is currently doing this.

 

I would love to see a USL team come to Cleveland, that market and Baltimore still surprise me as being vacant for pro soccer.

 

As for MLS, it would seem to be tough to justify three Ohio teams on the outset, but people often said Ohio could never have two and here we are (assuming the Crew are saved, which I believe they will be). However, it'll have to be way down the line depending on how MLS shakes out and grows. Still, the Crew, FCC, and a Cleveland USL side battling it out in the Open Cup would be fantastic.

 

If memory serves, wasn't the Cleveland MLS team that fell through headed to a stadium in Macedonia?

Macedonia, or at least the Route 8 corridor.  Yuck.

Those that follow MLS closely and are aware of how they operate, especially when it comes to their expansion, know that Cleveland is highly unlikely to join anytime in the remote future. As was mentioned Ohio is saturated (and in Don Garbers eyes, oversaturated, with MLS teams seeing as they wanted the Crew to move). The only way I could see a future Cleveland MLS team is if there isn't a Columbus team so Ohio has its teams at opposite corners of the state like NFL and MLB. Fortunately theres starting to be a light at the end of the tunnel when it comes to #SaveTheCrew. USL is perfectly appropriate for Cleveland though. Regional teams like Indianapolis, Louisville, and of course Pittsburgh will be good rivalries.

 

When it comes to a new stadium, I really think they should aim for something akin to Louisvilles upcoming stadium. Probably around 10,000 ish, 12k max with maybe a little flexibility to expand by a couple thousand if viable and necessary. The modular stadiums are a completely viable option but I think that's a solution that makes more sense for the teams like Sacramento and Phoenix who have very realistic aspirations of moving on to MLS and into bigger, newer, nicer digs... so the modular is just a temporary fix. I would say Louisville is probably the most impressive of the teams who dont have plans to move to MLS, but just be a dominant organization in USL.

 

Here's the latest renderings of the $50 million, 11,300 seat stadium Louisville is building in their Butchertown neighborhood adjacent to their downtown.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/louisville/news/2018/06/26/louisville-city-fc-ups-number-of-seats-cost-for.html

 

A partnership with CSU could be perfect if their interested. Especially if they want to take the Wolstein Center down, a great way to still pay homage to the Wolsteins would bring a sport they wanted to see thrive in Cleveland to that same site (which is perfect sized). I also agree that a larger, new Krenzler could work nicely if the baseball field could be relocated.

 

I doubt the city would want to vacate a newly constructed portion of Broadway, and that second site you mentioned would be too small without doing that.  The Forgotten Triangle is the area to the SE of there, but the question is if USL would want to set their stadium in a portion of the city that's in that rough shape.  Maybe- not likely.  The Midland Steel site could have potential, though.

 

Another potential site might be along Morgana's Run, between E. 49th and 55th.  Plenty of space, good highway access and visibility, could see some spin off development happen along Broadway or Fleet.  The old St. Michael's site, next to the Velodrome, could be another candidate.  Both of these sites (and Midland Steel) face the same problem as the Forgotten Triangle, though to a lesser degree.  If we built a soccer stadium there, would people want to go there for a game?

 

The Forgotten Triangle is all east of 55th St. I was referring to area around Transport Road, which (as of last summer), was a container farm. Would require pretty expensive infrastructure work, I imagine, which probably takes it out of the running.  Lack of highway access probably dooms Midland Steel, but maybe not, if the seating capacity isn't all that ambitious.

 

In any case, I think the Wolstein Center site is by far the best solution, good call.  Means persuading CSU  to build its new (smaller) arena somewhere else, but that would probably be easier to site.

I LOVE the idea of doing this [/member] Wolstein spot as CSU definitely needs a smaller facility.  I also love to see that so many on this board are excited about the potential of USL.

 

I still am a heavy lean to not thinking MLS- it just is not realistic based on what many say here.  Go with the best possible 5-8,000 seat stadium.  Make it a TRUE soccer destination type facility for the USL team, special events, HS playoffs, etc.  Create a demand to WANT to go to the facility!  Find the right niche.  Make it comfortable and make it as "Cleveland friendly" as possible- no dome, but roof going around like the big boys (and some of the small boys) do in Europe.  I would love to see something like this:

 

https://www.frameweb.com/news/bord-studio-bottles-a-big-atmosphere-into-a-small-stadium

 

Side note when it comes to CSU:  CSU hopefully can build a 5,000-6,000 fieldhouse type building that lets LIGHT IN during the winter- ala Hinkle Fieldhouse (Butler).  Again- make it a destination type spot, make it "Cleveland friendly".

 

Honestly, if you want the ideal stadium for a restricted space, seating 6-10,000... look at "The Pit" at Cincinnati Elder - one of the most unique high school football atmospheres in the country, in part because the crowd is on top of you

Anyone else think that the resurrection of the "Force" name was a brilliant move?

 

 

Regarding Krenzler Field Revitalization and Reprint, YABO713[/member] has pointed me in the direction for this kind of a controversy a little while back, should I be able to find the link to our small discourse, CSU plans on building a mid sized stadium some time in the future, with a football team to support it. I know how FCC utilizes Nippert Stadium at UC, so I proposed this kind of a utilization to lease the field to our potential city Soccer clubs.

 

I remember measuring the boundaries of the entirety of Krenzler and multiple other college campus stadiums to get an average number of sq ft that typically goes into major college sports venues. Krenzler has the footage to support a medium sized venue like that of Toledo's Glassbowl, UC's Nippert Stadium, Bowling Green's Doyt L. Perry Stadium, Akron's Summa Field, and Case Western Reserve's DiSanto Field.

 

The only downside to this proposal is that every sport functions like tennis, softball, baseball, and frisbee golf would have to be shoved elsewhere, unless "Krenzler Stadium" is multipurpose with other field sports. Soccer, Lacrosse, Football, and Track are utilized in most outdoor stadiums.

 

CSU has plenty of available event parking for night events, although it may be relatively difficult to house events during the daytime since there is a parking problem at CSU. To quote our administration from my orientation, "CSU doesn't have a parking problem, people have a walking problem". While I do somewhat agree, the growing numbers of enrolling students are breaking the motif of their quote. The access to nearby parking does not accommodate every commuter that drives to school every morning, thereby limiting students who cannot afford parking passes, and those who have noon-time classes that have the hardest time finding parking at any garage on campus, to public transportation. This is how bad parking is during the daytime. So there will have to be new parking decks close by. The lots behind the relatively new built Langston, that currently hold commuter parking would be great parking deck locations. Those two campus lots are just awful eyesores, gathering potholes and neglect.

 

I don't want to rant on the parking situation at CSU for long, but to build a stadium right next to CSU would be a great idea. If we harnessed themes of steel and industry or innovation, we could very well have a unique stadium. This proposal is up to CSU, but it's not set in stone, just speculative.

 

I don't think tearing down the Wolstein would solve our problems, it's an already developed stadium/venue which still pulls some major crowds for concerts and acts. Just because our basketball isn't exactly "The Best" in the world (Although totally Cinderella), doesn't mean it doesn't get attention. It's there in case, you know? If it were to get even more attention the CSU Hockey team could have their home rink swapped from Strongsville's OBM Arena to the Wolstein center. I've always questioned the fact that we have a hockey team but they don't play on campus but it's understandable since we only have a club team. Same goes for Akron Zips Hockey. If we swap the club aspect with NCAA standards, there could easily be more people waiting at the gate. Why do you have a hockey team if you don't play on campus. Utilization partly solved putting more activities inside the Wolstein. There's simply no need to tear it down.

 

TL;DR,  CSU at Krenzler Field is a prime spot, Wolstein does not need to be torn down for a new stadium, College students included in attendance.

If I'm Force Sports and/or whoever....I wouldn't really settle for being anything less than 50/50 when it comes to priority use of a hypothetical stadium with CSU. If that's not a feasible deal than I would build elsewhere. USL wants all of its teams to be playing in soccer specific stadiums in the near future. A joint project with a football team is fine as long as it's not a turf field that always has the football lines painted on or still visible after being removed.

 

I know nothing about CSU and not much about college sports in general. From what I can tell, their athletic conference, the Horizon League, doesnt have football at all.. .. so potential creation of a football team would most likely involve a move to a new conference? What would be a realistic capacity for a CSU football stadium? If it's pushing 20k or higher....I think that would be a very much less than ideal choice for a USL team. Yeah, FCC can fill up Nippert but they have the MLS brass ring they're grabbing for.

Why on earth would CSU start a football program? it is an expensive venture and I doubt there would be demand amongst the alumni to do this, and cant see how it would really benefit the school. There are a plethora of DIII schools in the area including Case which is less than 10 minutes away if people want to watch DIII football. CSU's product would not be much better. If Clevelander's want to watch a MAC product, Akron and Kent State are only about 45 minutes away. CSU will never be Ohio State or even UC for many reasons discussed above. It needs to find its own niche.

 

I know the DIII schools struggle for attendance like everyone else and many reasons why they have a program is because of the long tradition from its alumni to support a football program. Football is not CSU.

 

 

I would have to agree, building a football program is very costly and it would likely take 3-5 years before they could even reach D-2 (although D-1 would probably be their goal).  As a former D-2 football player, there's not a huge demand for these games, especially in our saturated football market.  It would be a losing proposition for CSU and one that would likely sacrifice other programs at the university.  Why not build up their existing programs and become elite at one of them which includes all the facilities to go with it.  If Force and CSU could build something together, that would be something I could sink my teeth in to.

Not to derail the conversation cause that’s not what we’re here to talk about, but I’m all for CSU getting a football team. And I hope it’s in the MAC or something like that. I didn’t know that was actively on the table, I know it was discussed before but I didn’t know they were pursuing it. I’m 100 percent in favor of it. If they give scholarships and the team is actually good, I think people would be surprised at the amount of folks who would come out to watch it.

 

Back to the Force, that’s not a bad idea to possibly team up with CSU and share some sort of new stadium. It could kill two birds with one stone, and give CSU a good tenant right away for a new small stadium

 

I know the DIII schools struggle for attendance like everyone else and many reasons why they have a program is because of the long tradition from its alumni to support a football program. Football is not CSU.

 

 

 

The biggest reason DIII schools have a football program is because it brings in 100+ guys every season, the vast majority of which wouldn't have otherwise considered going to the school. DIII schools use their athletics department as an extention of their admissions department. A large percentage of the freshman class at a DIII school with a 1,500-3,500 enrollment are athletes.

Why on earth would CSU start a football program? it is an expensive venture and I doubt there would be demand amongst the alumni to do this, and cant see how it would really benefit the school. There are a plethora of DIII schools in the area including Case which is less than 10 minutes away if people want to watch DIII football. CSU's product would not be much better. If Clevelander's want to watch a MAC product, Akron and Kent State are only about 45 minutes away. CSU will never be Ohio State or even UC for many reasons discussed above. It needs to find its own niche.

 

I know the DIII schools struggle for attendance like everyone else and many reasons why they have a program is because of the long tradition from its alumni to support a football program. Football is not CSU.

 

 

 

Wholly disagree.

 

My HS football team finished #2 in the country in 2008, and aside from the 5-6 kids that went to OSU, ND, and Pittsburgh - some of the better players were faced with a choice... Play D2 or D3 and start right away, or walk on at a MAC school, since the only FCS (1-AA) option in the state is YSU (Dayton plays in a non-scholarship conference).

 

So, a few of my friends chose to just go to a school for academics and no longer play. Those friends could've found a home at a CSU that is FCS. A stadium with a 10,000-15,000 capacity could serve the school and city fantastically. Not to mention, the kids from St. Ignatius, Solon, St. Eds, Mentor, Glenville, etc. that aren't good enough to get an FBS scholarship could stay at home and play in one of the most talent-rich areas for football in the country.

 

If CSU would've pursued that option, we wouldn't even need this stadium conversation right now.

They could play DIII or DII. You have Case, Mount Union, John Carroll, Oberlin, Baldwin Wallace, Hiram all within an hour drive to choose from.  THey don't give athletic scholarships but give academic scholarships to talented football players. If they wanted to play so bad, they could have gone to these schools.  The talent level at schools like John Carroll and Baldwin Wallace is not much different than Dayton and depending on how they run the program would not be much different than what CSU would put on the table initially either.

 

The question is would this generate the interest amongst the student body and alumni to offset the cost. Does it create an environment where people want to stay around campus longer or go to CSU? I just don't see the ROI there.

 

If I were a typical CSU student, I would go to CSU because of 1) Price and affordability and 2) it is located close to home and I can commute from home and save on college costs. If I want to move out I can find an apartment in the area to live affordably near campus with friends and 3) I am in the city and have all the amenities and benefits of being in a major city like Cleveland. I don't need to have the bond of college football on Saturdays because I am too busy working at my job that day or I would rather attend an Indians game or watch the Buckeyes on TV or go visit friends at Kent or AKrowdy.

They could play DIII or DII. You have Case, Mount Union, John Carroll, Oberlin, Baldwin Wallace, Hiram all within an hour drive to choose from.  THey don't give athletic scholarships but give academic scholarships to talented football players. If they wanted to play so bad, they could have gone to these schools.  The talent level at schools like John Carroll and Baldwin Wallace is not much different than Dayton and depending on how they run the program would not be much different than what CSU would put on the table initially either.

 

The question is would this generate the interest amongst the student body and alumni to offset the cost. Does it create an environment where people want to stay around campus longer or go to CSU? I just don't see the ROI there.

 

If I were a typical CSU student, I would go to CSU because of 1) Price and affordability and 2) it is located close to home and I can commute from home and save on college costs. If I want to move out I can find an apartment in the area to live affordably near campus with friends and 3) I am in the city and have all the amenities and benefits of being in a major city like Cleveland. I don't need to have the bond of college football on Saturdays because I am too busy working at my job that day or I would rather attend an Indians game or watch the Buckeyes on TV or go visit friends at Kent or AKrowdy.

 

Again, this is NOT the topic at hand, so I’ll jjst make this one last point. But I think you’re viewing CSU with the wrong lens. You’re looking at CSU through the prism of what they used to be instead of what they’re becoming. They’ve spent the better part of a decade becoming a more traditional university. A football team would fit right into those plans. And as others have said, this is a football talented region and there needs to be opportunities for players who can’t go to OSU for whatever. And if the team is good, people will show up. I’ve seen 10-12,000 people at an Arena game here. People WILL show up if the team is competitive. And a successful football program would do wonders for CSU and the community as a whole. But once again, that’s not the topic at hand and I don’t want to derail the conversation

^ There are plenty of opportunities available that are not OSU for local players. you have JCU, Oberlin, Hiram, Baldwin Wallace, Case, Wooster, Ashland, Walsh.

 

Assume the average DIII team has about 90 to 100 players, that is close to 700+ opportunities for NE Ohio Students. Then you add in Kent, Akron, YSU and BGSU and they recruit many more from the local area who may not be good enough to play at OSU.

 

Point is, if you are good enough to play college football, and want to play in college, there are more opportunities in Northern Ohio than almost anywhere else.

They could play DIII or DII. You have Case, Mount Union, John Carroll, Oberlin, Baldwin Wallace, Hiram all within an hour drive to choose from.  THey don't give athletic scholarships but give academic scholarships to talented football players. 

 

DII schools give athletic scholarships. DIII schools are not allowed to give athletic scholarships, and are not allowed to give "academic" scholarships that the players would not have otherwise qualified for if they were not playing a sport. Baldwin Wallace got busted for breaking this rule a couple years ago, and got hit with a postseason bans and had to forfeit championships they inappropriately won. DIII athletes love to tell you how their coach "got them some extra money" because the coach wanted them so bad, but more often than not this is not the case.

They could play DIII or DII. You have Case, Mount Union, John Carroll, Oberlin, Baldwin Wallace, Hiram all within an hour drive to choose from.  THey don't give athletic scholarships but give academic scholarships to talented football players. 

 

DII schools give athletic scholarships. DIII schools are not allowed to give athletic scholarships, and are not allowed to give "academic" scholarships that the players would not have otherwise qualified for if they were not playing a sport. Baldwin Wallace got busted for breaking this rule a couple years ago, and got hit with a postseason bans and had to forfeit championships they inappropriately won. DIII athletes love to tell you how their coach "got them some extra money" because the coach wanted them so bad, but more often than not this is not the case.

 

This belongs on a separate thread, but as someone who played in D3 up as recently as 2013... BW weren't the only ones.

I'd like to give a shoutout to a similar discussion we had earlier this year on the first few pages of the Cleveland SC thread:

https://www.urbanohio.com/forum/index.php/topic,31808.0.html

 

My thoughts on a CSU / USL stadium:

Yea, I realize the CSU thing is basically a pipe dream. It was on my mind because I recently had a discussion on here about how CSU could use a rebrand, with my preference being "University of Cleveland". Starting a football team, building a midsized on-campus stadium, and upgrading conferences would go a long way to reinforcing the new brand. But I'm not from Cleveland, nor do I know anyone associated with CSU, so I don't know the aspirations of the organization and community.

 

Some inside info on CSU athletics was also provided:

I was in a meeting in December re: the arena. Don't be surprised to see announcements for a 5-6,000 seat arena announced by 2020. It will be smaller and focus on a more intimate student experience, with designated student sections.

 

Additionally, there are talks underway to move the softball field, re-orient Krenzler field, and close E. 18th between Chester and Payne for additional bleachers. The plans for CSU lax are nothing short of grandiose.

 

Additionally, there are projected to be 10,000 students within a half mile of campus by 2020 - with each year it becomes less and less of a commuter school.

 

I graduated from high school in 2009 - 950 kids lived on campus at that time. CSU is undergoing a renaissance and I think it's wildly underappreciated.

If CSU wants football then they should go big with using the Browns stadium. I believe Pitt now uses the Heinz field as their football stadium. Why waste space and money on another stadium that is used 6-7x a year at most.  That would be a selling point for a football program. The issue would likely be finding a conference to join so they might need to be independent for a while.

That would save space for a soccer specific field at Krenzler.  However, I agree that a league will not like relying on a college for the stadium.

If CSU wants football then they should go big with using the Browns stadium. I believe Pitt now uses the Heinz field as their football stadium. Why waste space and money on another stadium that is used 6-7x a year at most.  That would be a selling point for a football program. The issue would likely be finding a conference to join so they might need to be independent for a while.

That would save space for a soccer specific field at Krenzler.  However, I agree that a league will not like relying on a college for the stadium.

 

From my understanding, the Browns charge an arm and a leg to rent the stadium. CSU may be better off building their own

^I imagine they do that is likely single use rates.  Things can be negotiated for long term contracts.  Its not like they are setting up for Beyonce or Taylor Swift to come in before a Browns game. It would be a football game on a Saturday followed by another occasionally on Sundays. Get enough fans to show up and it does indeed pay to not have to put capital investment into a significant structure that also needs constant upkeep and personnel to maintain. 

I’m not sure they could fill that size of a stadium right away. FirstEnergy is massive.