19 hours ago, Gordon Bombay said:

Such a missed opportunity to have MLSNEXTPRO and not USL-C. Cleveland is an established major league market with a great reputation for support of its pro teams, and, although USL-C is technically “second division,” the independent clubs in that league do not act or feel “minor league.”  Not to mention, a USL-C club could establish good rivalries in open cup matches against Columbus and Cincinnati in addition to regional USL rivals like Pittsburgh, an eventual Milwaukee club, Detroit, Indy, and Louisville. 
 

While MLSNEXTPRO serves a good technical purpose, its main purpose is not to provide a community with a local team they can truly rally behind (no matter what some suits want to believe). 

But you have to question the long term viability of USL with MLSNext ramping up. MLSNext is almost like the true Minor League. Also, while unlikely, it positions Cleveland to eventually land an MLS team at some point should a team look to relocate. With MLSNext you are starting to build your MLS infrastructure and prepares you for when an opportunity arises as you would know how to navigate in the MLS realm.  (Now I think there is zero chance Cleveland would ever get an expansion team at this point with Columbus and Cincinnati closing off that option, but you never know if the Haslems will get a wild hair up their A$$es and on a whim move the Crew to Cleveland, lol) 

44 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

But you have to question the long term viability of USL with MLSNext ramping up. MLSNext is almost like the true Minor League. Also, while unlikely, it positions Cleveland to eventually land an MLS team at some point should a team look to relocate. With MLSNext you are starting to build your MLS infrastructure and prepares you for when an opportunity arises as you would know how to navigate in the MLS realm.  (Now I think there is zero chance Cleveland would ever get an expansion team at this point with Columbus and Cincinnati closing off that option, but you never know if the Haslems will get a wild hair up their A$$es and on a whim move the Crew to Cleveland, lol) 

 

I disagree given the state and trends of USL at this moment. USL isn’t just USL-C, it’s a collection of several leagues developing its own infrastructure from academies to stadiums. And while MLSNP may be the “true” minor league, that just typecasts this Cleveland franchise as such. USL-C teams meanwhile, exist at the 2nd Division as a technicality. And while those who follow such things know there’s still a wide gulf between USL-C & MLS, the common fan does not—which is how you get clubs with large local followings in cities such as Louisville, Sacramento, Tampa, and Detroit. They’re “2nd Division,” but don’t exist to just develop players for a parent organization. Their games and league can mean something + they can play for the Open Cup and if they win that… CONCACAFF Champion’s League. Meanwhile, MLSNextPro is simply just a development team.

 

Additionally, none of the MLSNextPro clubs that exist currently or are being developed seem poised to “build MLS infrastructure” for future expansion teams. They exist mostly as “II” teams to develop players for the parent clubs. If Cleveland really wanted the best current option to push for an expansion franchise—they’d be better suited at following the USL model in the vein of Cincinnati, Orlando, Nashville, and Sacramento. Also, USL is a league that could potentially (but not anytime soon) apply for First Division status under the USSF guidelines

 

Back in 2016, I was at the original FC Cincinnati team store waiting in line to buy a kit. I spoke with this couple behind me who had relocated from Seattle. They were Sounders fans, but were so happy that Cincinnati now had a team, not even realizing that FCC was (at the time) in the Third Division (USL’s previous ranking). Point is—clubs like FC Cincinnati, Tampa Bay Rowdies, Sacramento, and especially San Diego Loyal nowadays do a great job of marketing themselves as top tier organizations. They don’t come off as minor league and follow that up by presenting a “major league” face to fans. 

No MLSNextPro team is going to do that for the foreseeable future, nor is it likely that they’d aspire to that. Because that’s not why the league exists. Maybe I’m wrong and maybe MLSNP ends up developing independent clubs with their own identity, but it seems to me if you want that model—the answer is already there in USL either at the Championship or League 1 level.

 

As for future expansion franchises—while good local support and attendance helps, the be all end all is money. I mean, Cincinnati had incredible fan support, but the real reason a mid-tier sports market got to cut the MLS expansion line in front of Phoenix, Tampa, San Diego, Vegas, St. Louis, Detroit, and so many others was…. Billionaire ownership and a stadium deal. I don’t see that happening for Cleveland anytime soon (although I’d love it if so).

Edited November 21, 20222 yr by Gordon Bombay

I watched the entire presentation. I hope they can find a way to build an expandable 10000 seat stadium in downtown Cleveland.

NO SUBURBS PLEASE.  I also hear that this group has formally applied for NWSL expansion franchise.  Hopefully things will work out.

I kinda think they buried the lead here on the press conference. The real news is the bid for NWSL expansion. That is top-flight soccer on the world-stage. That is exciting. Also, the fact that the owner-guy gave out lots of free beer and pizza was pretty sick.

 

But... I have no idea why proclaiming Cleveland as a peer-city with MLS Next Pro expansion teams in Huntsville, AL and High Point, NC had to be a part of this process. Particularly since we wouldn't enter the league until 2025. I certainly hope long-term our main rivals aren't Columbus' and Cincinnati's reserve squads.

That’s great news on the NWSL front, hopefully MLSNP becomes a better league or this group reconsiders USL-C.

if the aren't tied to an mls team, would that give them flexibility to jump leagues if they had to?

Edited November 21, 20222 yr by Whipjacka

4 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

But you have to question the long term viability of USL with MLSNext ramping up. MLSNext is almost like the true Minor League. 

 

The USL is fine. It's not a competitor with MLS Next. USL-C is a division below MLS but it's not "minor league." 

 

[edit] just now reading the much more eloquent response from @Gordon Bombay 

Edited November 22, 20222 yr by surfohio

2 hours ago, Whipjacka said:

if the aren't tied to an mls team, would that give them flexibility to jump leagues if they had to?

I’m not entirely sure on that. If they’re truly independent, I don’t see why not? Also, looking more into the Rochester situation (currently the only non-affiliated, independent club in MLSNP), it looks like independent teams in the league can in fact participate in the open cup (a chance to face off against the Crew and Cincy). 
 

Still, for a market like Cleveland, USL-C would seem to be a better fit (although I’m sure MLSNP is less of a financial risk). 
 

When FC Cincinnati was in USL (both its third and second division iterations), playing “II” teams sucked.

 

2 hours ago, Gordon Bombay said:

Still, for a market like Cleveland, USL-C would seem to be a better fit (although I’m sure MLSNP is less of a financial risk). 
 

When FC Cincinnati was in USL (both its third and second division iterations), playing “II” teams sucked.

 

The ll teams were a real drag on USL. It was certainly best for all involved having MLSNP forming their own league.  

 

One interesting note about USL is that unlike MLS there's no salary cap. It's entirely possible for some crazed billionaire to stock up a USL team with ringers, like the New York Cosmos. 

28 minutes ago, surfohio said:

, like the New York Cosmos. 

 

And how are they doing these days? 😉

 

But I do absolutely get your point. 

3 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said:

 

And how are they doing these days? 😉

 

But I do absolutely get your point. 

 

Well I was gonna say like a New New York lol

I doubt the timing and planning would work, but putting a 8-10,000 soccer facility where the Wolstein Center sits could be ideal.  I know in the CSU masterplan there was mention of a "Partnership District" without a clear path.  With a parking garage already across the street and an area yearning for activity, I would love to see this spot land a soccer stadium.  Considering that it will also be used for concerts and other sports and non-sporting events, what a great location near a hopefully GROWING CSU!

On 11/18/2022 at 9:07 PM, simplythis said:

If they could expand seats at Krenzler field how many seats could it hold ?

It looks like they would only be able to add seating on the east side.  If they shift the field to the east, they could put some seats on the west side, but then they would lose the baseball field.

All good stuff but I miss the days (2006) when the visionary Wolsteins (RIP) were talking to Garber about CLE in the actual MLS.   

 

Would’ve been in Macedonia but the Rossetti-designed stadium was ahead of its time.  And let’s face it…the location between CLE and Akron/Canton seemed to work for a certain arena back in the day.  MLS was all over the idea until the state of OH refused to contribute funds and IIRC Summit County was also lukewarm to the commitment. 

 

Not a big fan of spending a bunch of money on a new stadium for MLS Next - or whatever its called - but would be nice to get a women's franchise…Could also boost the profile of CSU soccer perhaps. 

7 minutes ago, BigMacky said:

Not a big fan of spending a bunch of money on a new stadium for MLS Next - or whatever its called - but would be nice to get a women's franchise…Could also boost the profile of CSU soccer perhaps. 

Agreed.  Maybe just upgrade Krenzler Field, assuming they want to play downtown.  Of course there are other options in the suburbs.

USLC would be a lot more fun from a fan perspective.  You'd have built in rivalries with Pittsburgh and Detroit, and the rest of the league is filled with independent clubs with real fan bases, etc.  The likely problem is that USL requires a higher expansion fee (I think $5M+ is last I heard), and a stadium being in place with requirements that none of the college venues in town could meet. 

 

MLS Next Pro might grow in the future, but the MLS Reserve teams will never draw well, so you are limited in terms of building any rivalries.  

 

NWSL is bigger news than either MLSNext or USLC though (IMO).  That is a league full of some of the best players in the world, and we'd be competing against genuine top-tier markets.  Hopefully the ownership group is serious about pursuing it.  

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said:

It looks like they would only be able to add seating on the east side.  If they shift the field to the east, they could put some seats on the west side, but then they would lose the baseball field.

I’m sure it was pure blue-sky thinking, but there was mention somewhere on UO a few years ago, that rotating the field 180 degrees and closing E18th was a consideration. 

2 hours ago, BigMacky said:

…the Rossetti-designed stadium was ahead of its time. 

Is there a rendering online anywhere? IIRC, the dream of Cleveland in MLS faded after the man leading the potential ownership group passed away, right?

Coincidentally, before FC Cincinnati there were two pushes to get MLS in that market albeit behind the scenes. There was a real chance The Crew may have relocated at one point before Crew Stadium came about, and, The Bengals had pursued a franchise of their own for Paul Brown Stadium in the early aughts. 

2 hours ago, roman totale XVII said:

I’m sure it was pure blue-sky thinking, but there was mention somewhere on UO a few years ago, that rotating the field 180 degrees and closing E18th was a consideration. 

I think this is the best option. And will help merge the CSU campus and the Avenue District/St. Clair-Superior neighborhoods. 

 

Sorry Becky’s!

Edited November 22, 20222 yr by marty15

On 11/21/2022 at 11:47 PM, surfohio said:

 

Well I was gonna say like a New New York lol

 

 

speaking of 😉  ... the usl queensboro fc team will start up in 2023 -- they are playing at york college in jamaica, queens.

 

looks like work started on the stadium -- 

 

https://www.qchron.com/editions/eastern/stadium-work-starts-summer-at-york/article_92f858c3-2ba1-5cf3-a6f8-27ffa8b486ba.html

 

Sadly the latest news and rumors surrounding Queensboro haven’t been good. I sincerely doubt that club plays next year if ever (they have academy teams, but no USL-C team). Add the news regarding MLS’ NYCFC finally securing somewhat of a stadium plan and I think Queensboro is done. 

^ i wondered about that.

 

i wish the big league team stadium was in the bronx instead, but i guess it didnt work out.

 

the old iron triangle by shea/citifield was opened up and supposed to be all for housing.

 

there are sites in the bx that would have been better, ie., e149st by the east river or west bx on the harlem river by yankee stadium below macombs/jerome.

I think this belongs here…

 

https://clevelandcleats.com/?fbclid=PAAab5WfvNifGFG20P4lPKU1Xd9OLEAB8-wkiklUiFPUwERLmeVL1gnbVyepM

 

Theres also an Instagram account, mentioning a NEW stadium. Justin Bibb responded in it:

 

https://instagram.com/clevelandcleats?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

 

Edited April 1, 20232 yr by Oldmanladyluck

So is this the first riverfront project?
Better get moving on it! Says they will be playing in it in 2025.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So is this the first riverfront project?
Better get moving on it! Says they will be playing in it in 2025.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Annnndddd I just remembered the date today [emoji23] can anyone verify this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think they got us on this as far as the location of any stadium is concerned😄 

 

This looks like it is on the same site as the thermal plant. There is no way a stadium gets built there by a 2025 season. Infrastructure wont even be ready by then.

Did you guys forget today is April Fool's day?

Geez is this real or an April Fools Day joke? Does anyone know

City of Cleveland's April Fool's Day Joke: 1

UrbanOhio: 0

 

Apparently there aren't enough fathers on UO, I thought we were dad joke-proof. Come on guys. 

Dunno…

 

 

Edited April 1, 20232 yr by Oldmanladyluck

It feels like an April fools joke but the city chiming in is weird. They should not be doing jokes like this or they are also getting duped.

 

20 minutes ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

Dunno…

Yeah, there would have been rumblings before *ahem* April 1st, 2023 if there was going to be a USL expansion team playing in 2025. 

 

1 minute ago, ELaunder said:

Yeah, there would have been rumblings before *ahem* April 1st, 2023 if there was going to be a USL expansion team playing in 2025. 

 

 

@KJPhas written a few articles about a soccer team coming to Cleveland but at the site previously meant for the Browns south of the inner belt. I don’t remember if they were supposed to be a part of the USL or not, though. I’ll have to look through Neotrans to find the article.

They created a web site, Instagram account and a press release. If this is an April Fools joke, they sure are putting a lot of effort into it.

 

I see @Whipjackais a follower. Anything you can add regarding this "news"? 

no insight from me. seems fake

It's fake. 

That’s pretty good lol

Honestly looks pretty bad on Bibb that he either a.) doesn't know what's going on in his own city and gets some of his information from Instagram, or b.) Is in on some crappy April fools joke about developing the riverfront and bringing in a new entertainment venue that he isn't getting done himself. Just doesn't sit well with me.

52 minutes ago, clandman1123 said:

Honestly looks pretty bad on Bibb that he either a.) doesn't know what's going on in his own city and gets some of his information from Instagram, or b.) Is in on some crappy April fools joke about developing the riverfront and bringing in a new entertainment venue that he isn't getting done himself. Just doesn't sit well with me.

It’s an Instagram comment and a fun joke

We should have caught the april fools joke press the press release. 

Cleveland is getting a MLS Next Pro team  NOT USL Championship team in

2025.

Honestly looks pretty bad on Bibb that he either a.) doesn't know what's going on in his own city and gets some of his information from Instagram, or b.) Is in on some crappy April fools joke about developing the riverfront and bringing in a new entertainment venue that he isn't getting done himself. Just doesn't sit well with me.

You're fun at parties I'm sure.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

2 hours ago, clandman1123 said:

Honestly looks pretty bad on Bibb that he either a.) doesn't know what's going on in his own city and gets some of his information from Instagram, or b.) Is in on some crappy April fools joke about developing the riverfront and bringing in a new entertainment venue that he isn't getting done himself. Just doesn't sit well with me.

 

I was thinking the exact same thing. Either way he's completely out of touch on things -- not knowing what's going on or lacking sense on being a grown up. 

2 hours ago, clandman1123 said:

Honestly looks pretty bad on Bibb that he either a.) doesn't know what's going on in his own city and gets some of his information from Instagram, or b.) Is in on some crappy April fools joke about developing the riverfront and bringing in a new entertainment venue that he isn't getting done himself. Just doesn't sit well with me.

 

38 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

You're fun at parties I'm sure.

 

@clandman1123 I've noticed this site has little tolerance for any criticism of Bibb, even when well-deserved. It's pretty bizarre. Say what want about Jackson or DeWine or Biden. But not Bibb.

3 hours ago, ProspectAve said:

 

 

@clandman1123 I've noticed this site has little tolerance for any criticism of Bibb, even when well-deserved. It's pretty bizarre. Say what want about Jackson or DeWine or Biden. But not Bibb.

 

Plenty of tolerance.  But we did have this weird guy who used to drag his hatred for Bibb into any thread, no matter how tangentially related to the topic.  The mods and admins do get tired of people who drag their monomanias into every thread, whatever that obsession might be- Bibb, downtown retail, litter.  So he ended up getting banned cause he couldn't cool it when asked. 

 

Then that guy came back a couple times under different names and got banned for that, because that's against forum rules as well.  Kept going after Bibb, even, giving himself away in the process.  Not too smart, that one.

 

Anywho, hope that clears things up for you, "ProspectAve"!

Fake of course, but I wouldn't call it particularly funny. Maybe if Bibb and his team had a clever retort, we would have chuckled. 

 

Makes me pine for NPSL days at the Richfield Colliseum. Hell, I'll even take the MISL days.

 

But overall not a big deal Pug--I mean ProspectAve. 

24 minutes ago, TBideon said:

 

But overall not a big deal Pug--I mean ProspectAve. 

 

Proves my point--there is ultrasensitivity around Bibb. I was simply making a point--and I get jumped on. I was only agreeing with another poster--the original comment wasn't even mine. If anyone's your Pug, its clandman1123. Or maybe--just maybe--people just have normal opinions that just happens that not its not always positive about what Bibb is doing.

Pugu has left the building.  Again.