November 6, 20231 yr 34 minutes ago, Geowizical said: My rendering project currently in the works is a fictitious stadium / TOD stadium village proposal for this particular site. I'm hoping to be able to share it with y'all in the next week or two in Rando Vis thread! I reckon it's my most ambitious project yet 😅 Nice! One request: one of the most popular aspects for fan experience at Petco Park in San Diego is a ballfield for parents & kids. Would love to see soccer adopting something similar.
November 6, 20231 yr 23 minutes ago, surfohio said: Nice! One request: one of the most popular aspects for fan experience at Petco Park in San Diego is a ballfield for parents & kids. Would love to see soccer adopting something similar. Noted, thanks for the idea! I'm pretty sure LFS in Louisville also has a mini soccer pitch for kids, so I'll try and adopt something similar here. Edited November 6, 20231 yr by Geowizical
January 26, 20241 yr A survey is available from the Cleveland Soccer Group to get community feed back on a professional soccer stadium and NWSL and MLS Next Pro teams. https://www.clevelandprosoccer.com/e3t/Ctc/ZW+113/d2LnDK04/VW33Z-6drNx_VkfcYF2RgRvSW3wqskQ58MyRZN5VHnVn3lYMRW95jsWP6lZ3pQW1DM0J63ldyYHW5z6kyb3VwTjlW68KnpS84nRCYN8xX4NfTTKTRW6Mc2735kdR1fW4rj22w1XcpGxN8_WGT8w70c3W7n34jc3kx5CBMwkRQggvvr-W90Myzz6bpvTrW172_d37R-cfzW1R8H1C3l_SF3W7v6S9f2g8qKTV2-2VN3R135kW3gty1150BY4fW5Hzxfh1zqgBYW4H1VR67vDb6dW4rxx1Z1r87J4W1Fjfl49kGhyRVDrthD2SzgkzW7LfVg_4bm-PQW5dQKhb69MzTXVprzVB8465GQVtRSyR7sxyh0W8GnMp66lnbD9W36JLHr7rxHBfW4t-8nZ5R_f1sW8BQh4k1SgCXZW9cmTSq3XxhcgVQqf707x-kWsf5hzYZq04
February 1, 20241 yr Very interesting information on a future stadium from the Scene Ronayne interview today (Chris Ronayne on Funding for the Homeless, Re-entry Services, a Stadium (Not That One) and the City’s Plan to TIF Downtown - Vince Grzegorek - 1-31-24): "Grzegorek: I know Michael Murphy is trying to put together a soccer specific stadium build and he’s talked to you, the city, the state. Ronayne: Well, I will say Mike Murphy and Nolan Gallagher are not alone in their proposals, from what I understand, but they're the ones that have been most communicative. I've heard other proposals on other leagues. There hasn't been a formal ask of this yet. I've heard kind of in the wind, the round numbers. There are more than one kind of competing teams in the proposal. ... I'm sort of at this point speaking a little bit at the periphery because the hard and fast presentation asks have not been made in terms of here's what we need, but I'm aware of the overall proposal. And what I do like is the co-location of college sport and high school sport. I think if we're going to be smart about how we go about stadia, arena, a field for soccer and anything else, looking at co-locational opportunities is the way to go. Grzegorek: Are we talking about CSU? Ronayne: I've heard everything from Cleveland State to St. Ignatius to a lacrosse team we haven't thought of yet, but the ones I've heard are major high schools and colleges."
February 1, 20241 yr Just now, NorthShore647 said: Very interesting information on a future stadium from the Scene Ronayne interview today (Chris Ronayne on Funding for the Homeless, Re-entry Services, a Stadium (Not That One) and the City’s Plan to TIF Downtown - Vince Grzegorek - 1-31-24): "Grzegorek: I know Michael Murphy is trying to put together a soccer specific stadium build and he’s talked to you, the city, the state. Ronayne: Well, I will say Mike Murphy and Nolan Gallagher are not alone in their proposals, from what I understand, but they're the ones that have been most communicative. I've heard other proposals on other leagues. There hasn't been a formal ask of this yet. I've heard kind of in the wind, the round numbers. There are more than one kind of competing teams in the proposal. ... I'm sort of at this point speaking a little bit at the periphery because the hard and fast presentation asks have not been made in terms of here's what we need, but I'm aware of the overall proposal. And what I do like is the co-location of college sport and high school sport. I think if we're going to be smart about how we go about stadia, arena, a field for soccer and anything else, looking at co-locational opportunities is the way to go. Grzegorek: Are we talking about CSU? Ronayne: I've heard everything from Cleveland State to St. Ignatius to a lacrosse team we haven't thought of yet, but the ones I've heard are major high schools and colleges." To me joining forces with CSU has always been the most ideal route for a new soccer stadium in Cleveland. It's good to hear that there are still discussions about this possibility. I think the best location for a new 5,000~10,000 seat soccer stadium in Cleveland (by a wide margin) is at a rebuilt Krenzler on Chester. It is also very good news to hear that there are other groups and/or proposals from other leagues for a team in Cleveland. As I have mentioned earlier in this thread I really don't think MLS Next Pro is the league a Cleveland group should be pursuing, so the possibility of "other leagues" is very encouraging (USL-C or USL-1 I assume, maybe NISA?). The mentioning of a "lacrosse team" is also interesting, if Ronayne was referring to a team other than CSU's or local high school, meaning a potential PLL team (although there aren't traditional home teams in that league really)? If Cleveland lands a pro men's side (MLSNP, USL-C, USL-1 or NISA) and a pro women's (NWSL) that both shared a facility with CSU's three field teams (men's lacrosse, men's and women's soccer) you would have around 50 games a year at that stadium. That's not including its use as a training facility, as a venue for local high schools or regional tournaments, or its potential use by multiple amateur teams already playing in the area.
February 1, 20241 yr 29 minutes ago, NorthShore647 said: To me joining forces with CSU has always been the most ideal route for a new soccer stadium in Cleveland. It's good to hear that there are still discussions about this possibility. I think the best location for a new 5,000~10,000 seat soccer stadium in Cleveland (by a wide margin) is at a rebuilt Krenzler on Chester. The CLE skyline from that vantage point is super interesting.
February 1, 20241 yr 33 minutes ago, NorthShore647 said: If Cleveland lands a pro men's side (MLSNP, USL-C, USL-1 or NISA) and a pro women's (NWSL) that both shared a facility with CSU's three field teams (men's lacrosse, men's and women's soccer) you would have around 50 games a year at that stadium. That's not including its use as a training facility, as a venue for local high schools or regional tournaments, or its potential use by multiple amateur teams already playing in the area. NWSL averages about 10k per game, and USL-C around 6k. From a traffic & transportation standpoint I could see either Krenzler or St. Ignatius working out. Ohio City has the amenities but it's not hard to envision a "stadium village" near Krenzler. In fact it's a pretty surprisingly dead area that could use a boost.
February 1, 20241 yr 9 hours ago, surfohio said: NWSL averages about 10k per game, and USL-C around 6k. From a traffic & transportation standpoint I could see either Krenzler or St. Ignatius working out. Ohio City has the amenities but it's not hard to envision a "stadium village" near Krenzler. In fact it's a pretty surprisingly dead area that could use a boost. This would tie in wonderfully with a Lumen II/Greyhound project.
February 1, 20241 yr I also like the idea of getting big HS sports a home in the city. Never made sense to me that St. Ignatius plays its home football games in Parma. I think a well-planned stadium could have lots of different events 9 months/year.
February 1, 20241 yr wolstein spot makes a lot of sense too - since csu is looking for a new basketball arena. they could cede the land to a soccer ownership group in exchange for use
February 1, 20241 yr 37 minutes ago, Whipjacka said: wolstein spot makes a lot of sense too - since csu is looking for a new basketball arena. they could cede the land to a soccer ownership group in exchange for use Nothing can get started at Wolstein site until the new CSU arena is built, and it looks like that is several years away. And IMO another sports facility is not a good use for the Wolstein site.
February 2, 20241 yr On 2/1/2024 at 11:44 AM, LibertyBlvd said: Nothing can get started at Wolstein site until the new CSU arena is built, Sure it could. Woodling Gym on campus holds 3,000, Per the inter-web, that's big enough for CSU basketball crowds these days, and they can find alternate venues for other events, like the Charge, etc. On 2/1/2024 at 11:44 AM, LibertyBlvd said: And IMO another sports facility is not a good use for the Wolstein site. Agree to disagree. It's centrally located, great highway access, decent public transit access, several parking garages nearby, pretty close to existing entertainment options, but surrounded by plenty of underutilized land around for future development. I think Krenzler Field would be pretty good too for all the same reasons.
February 5, 20241 yr The Soccer Effect: How The USL Kicks Off Economic Development In Small And Midsize Cities Michael LoRé January 19, 2024 7:46PM EST Nestled at the edge of Pikes Peak, one of the highest summits of the Front Range of the Rocky Mountains, Colorado Springs is proudly stepping out of Denver’s shadow and is poised to overtake Colorado’s capital as the most populous city in the state by 2050, according to state projections. Named one of the top 10 places to live in the United States in 2022-23 by U.S. News & World Report and one of the “best-performing” large U.S. cities for its job growth and economic stability by the Milken Institute, Colorado Springs is ready to spring into prominence. This exponential growth for a city with an estimated population of 506,646 has spurred economic development, highlighted by more than $2 billion in downtown investments, an 8,000-seat outdoor amphitheater, and a citywide fiber-optic network. Home to five military bases, the United States Olympic and Paralympic Committee and a number of nonprofits, Colorado Springs’ identity is as varied as its residents. Looking to tie it all together to create a unified sense of community and pride, Colorado Springs Switchbacks FC began play in 2015. https://communityplaymaker.com/features/the-soccer-effect/
February 7, 20241 yr https://www.cleveland.com/news/2024/02/plans-underway-to-build-new-pro-womens-soccer-stadium-near-downtown-cleveland.html "Plans are underway to build a new stadium near downtown Cleveland designed to help bring a professional women’s soccer team to the city, according to one of the developers behind the project. Should the National Women’s Soccer League award Cleveland an expansion team, the stadium could be completed as early as 2026, said Michael Murphy, co-founder and CEO of Cleveland Soccer Group, LLC, in an interview. The cost of the stadium, which Murphy said is expected to be in the ballpark of $150 million, would be covered partially by team owners and partially by local or state funding. The Ohio House on Wednesday voted to put $1 million in state funding toward the stadium. Murphy said a couple different sites near downtown Cleveland are being considered for the stadium site, though he declined to provide further details. State Rep. Bride Rose Sweeney, a Westlake Democrat, said one site under consideration is close to Progressive Field and The Western Reserve Fire Museum and Education Center." Personal Edit: Since they mentioned Kansas City Current's new stadium as a comparison I looked it up, their new stadium cost ~120 million so the projected 150 million is very reasonable/realistic. Edited February 7, 20241 yr by Geowizical
February 7, 20241 yr I'm having sticker shock at that price. I could see it for MSL team but that's a lot of money for a minor league stadium. Or maybe l'm still living in the 70's.
February 7, 20241 yr 35 minutes ago, cadmen said: I'm having sticker shock at that price. I could see it for MSL team but that's a lot of money for a minor league stadium. Or maybe l'm still living in the 70's. Not really. Like I mentioned, KC stadium cost 120, so if that is normal then 150 is also normal. Also, Lower.com Field (Columbus Crew stadium) cost over twice as much (315 million). Edited February 7, 20241 yr by Geowizical
February 7, 20241 yr Does anyone know this - Does the Cleveland Soccer Group have to be awarded a NWSL franchise to acquire land and begin construction of a new stadium OR are they building anyway. Remember they were awarded a MLS Next Pro Franchise which is set to start next year ( but where will they play )
February 8, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, simplythis said: Does anyone know this - Does the Cleveland Soccer Group have to be awarded a NWSL franchise to acquire land and begin construction of a new stadium OR are they building anyway. Remember they were awarded a MLS Next Pro Franchise which is set to start next year ( but where will they play ) no I think it’s actually the other way around. I think securing a site and financing to begin building for the MLS Next franchise pads the bid for NWSL. I’ve gotten a lot of intel on the bid for NWSL, It’s very competitive and about 10-20x more expensive to franchise a team than it was 5 years ago.
February 8, 20241 yr 16 minutes ago, BelievelandD1 said: no I think it’s actually the other way around. I think securing a site and financing to begin building for the MLS Next franchise pads the bid for NWSL. I’ve gotten a lot of intel on the bid for NWSL, It’s very competitive and about 10-20x more expensive to franchise a team than it was 5 years ago. Where in downtown are they planning on acquiring land? Is it that site by the post office where the browns considered building. They mentioned they are talking about a site by the fire museum. Is there flat land there or sloped down.?
February 8, 20241 yr The site south of progressive field near fire museum is frontrunner but not a done deal
February 8, 20241 yr 6 hours ago, cadmen said: I'm having sticker shock at that price. I could see it for MSL team but that's a lot of money for a minor league stadium. Or maybe l'm still living in the 70's. Just fyi this isn't minor league it's the top women's pro league. The San Diego team draws 20k fans on average per game.
February 8, 20241 yr half the league draws 6k or less. not putting down the league or this project, but I wouldn't necessarily expect sellouts
February 8, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, surfohio said: Just fyi this isn't minor league it's the top women's pro league. The San Diego team draws 20k fans on average per game. Yes thanks for bringing that up. The NWSL is the top woman's league in the world. The MLS is not even in the top 20 in men's soccer. You could argue that the MLS is the minor league. The MLS is soccer for Americans .
February 8, 20241 yr ^ Regardless, MLS attendance is quite a bit higher than NWSL attendance. More than double on average. The NWSL average attendance is pretty comparable to what the Monsters get in terms of attendance, but more than most minor leagues. (Fwiw, average MLS attendance is higher than average NBA attendance, due to stadium capacity). https://soccerstadiumdigest.com/2023-mls-attendance/ https://soccerstadiumdigest.com/2023-nwsl-attendance/ This seems like a lot of money for the level of draw. Though maybe just reframing the stadium debate outside of the big 4 is giving me fresh perspective. We could basically have this stadium or the land bridge. I'll take the land bridge. (Obviously it's not actually that simple) Alternatively, the amount of new bike trails we could build with $150m is a lot. So many alternative uses, and unlike with the big 4, there isn't any big city credentials for housing a NWSL team. idk, unless this stadium is going to be used for more than just NWSL games it doesn't seem worth building to me. Just my opinion.
February 8, 20241 yr Crains says this stadium would be used for the women’s and men’s teams. I would like to know where the money is coming from—they are vague, just saying it’s a public-private partnership. But to me the opportunity to feature top tier women’s sport is really compelling. The league itself is growing a lot, and there is a lot of buzz in general around women’s sports, from tennis to basketball (thanks to college stars) and soccer with the woman’s national team having such big expectations in recent years. Just looking at our current economic and population growth, we’re going to have a hard time getting an MLS team anytime soon, so this seems to me the best opportunity to bring pro soccer to Cleveland. And I think it’d be a cool thing for us to be home to Ohio’s best women players.
February 8, 20241 yr It seems like a good opportunity to get in at or near the ground floor on a growing league, as well. I think it makes sense if we can get the NWSL, MLS Next, CSU soccer, and some featured high school games all playing there.
February 8, 20241 yr 9 hours ago, freethink said: Yes thanks for bringing that up. The NWSL is the top woman's league in the world. The MLS is not even in the top 20 in men's soccer. You could argue that the MLS is the minor league. The MLS is soccer for Americans . MLS is now most definitely in the top 20 globally. A lot of articles and metrics have been released recently that puts them around 16-ish. “MLS is soccer for Americans” : Being the top soccer league in the wealthiest most powerful country on earth aka The United States is not a bad thing it’s a very very very good thing lol. Have you seen the latest valuations released a few weeks ago? They are soaring the average is now about 700 Million Dollars and the league already has its first billion dollar franchise valuation. The US hosting the 2026 World cup is only going to push the league hotter faster too. Edited February 8, 20241 yr by 646empire
February 8, 20241 yr Author NWSL closest team location is Louisville. This is a great opportunity to have Cleveland as a destination for cities like Detroit, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, and Columbus (bit closer than Lville) where families want to bring their girls to see women's soccer. Awesome opportunity for Cleveland if we can get it done. 12-13,000 seats= great outdoor venue for concerts.
February 9, 20241 yr Stadium update. https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/soccer/womens-professional-soccer-stadium-team-cleveland/95-a5d77478-3b17-4eb6-ab91-2cab29dd7a60
February 9, 20241 yr Metroparks to be potential intermediary for downtown soccer stadium JOE SCALZO February 09, 2024 Quote If the Cleveland Soccer Group (CSG) lands a National Women’s Soccer League (NWSL) team, Cleveland Metroparks would help supply the land for a new downtown stadium. Under terms of their agreement, the Metroparks would acquire land from the Ohio Department of Transportation and then lease the property to CSG to build a stadium, a Metroparks spokesperson told Crain's. The land would be near Progressive Field and the Western Reserve Fire Museum and Education Center, south of the Innerbelt Bridge. https://www.crainscleveland.com/sports-recreation/metroparks-be-potential-soccer-stadium-intermediary
February 9, 20241 yr 7 minutes ago, Luke_S said: Metroparks to be potential intermediary for downtown soccer stadium JOE SCALZO February 09, 2024 https://www.crainscleveland.com/sports-recreation/metroparks-be-potential-soccer-stadium-intermediary I feel like I'm missing the why. Why are the Metroparks necessary? What's the benefit of using them as a middleman? I feel like I'm missing something obvious.
February 9, 20241 yr I don't know how to cross post between two threads(if someone could tell me that would be great!)... but below is what I put in the Browns stadium thread, it applies here as well.... I have to bring the below graphic up again because I still think this is by far the best location & idea for all our current stadium needs, the solution for both the Browns and future soccer team(s). It keeps all sports downtown, close together, using up unused areas and would activate that inactive area of the flats. It also would put a lot of owners/teams together in one area, pooling their money and therefore hopefully needing less tax payers dollars. The various government entities that own the land can work out a good deal for the public and teams, it would make a dynamic sports complex in the CBD, much like the Gateway Plaza which would be right next door. However, if Haslam just wanted it for his own stadium and amenities village, I'd be perfectly fine with that as well... let'm buy all that space to build his own village. I believe its the perfect location for the Browns, there is access to the Rail Line to build a station for ease of public transit connections and direct access to the interstate. It would also expand the feel of downtown south of the innerbelt and give a a bigger city feel when on the highway.
February 9, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, Ethan said: I feel like I'm missing the why. Why are the Metroparks necessary? What's the benefit of using them as a middleman? I feel like I'm missing something obvious. This is a good question, I don't know but my assumption would be the Metroparks is able to purchase the land with more favorable financing and the lease to Cleveland Soccer may only be a nominal lease. My other question is (1) what are the boundaries of the gateway district, and (2) if the proposed location for the soccer stadium isn't in the district could the district be expanded to include this area?
February 9, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, Luke_S said: This is a good question, I don't know but my assumption would be the Metroparks is able to purchase the land with more favorable financing and the lease to Cleveland Soccer may only be a nominal lease. My other question is (1) what are the boundaries of the gateway district, and (2) if the proposed location for the soccer stadium isn't in the district could the district be expanded to include this area? I know the Metroparks owns the parking lot under I-90. They probably own the rest of that plot.
February 9, 20241 yr 6 minutes ago, Mogradal said: I know the Metroparks owns the parking lot under I-90. They probably own the rest of that plot. The land in question is currently owned by ODOT.
February 9, 20241 yr 1 minute ago, Luke_S said: The land in question is currently owned by ODOT. So the metroparks runs and maintains the property. That explains why it says state of Ohio on county records and that triangle at Carniege and Ontario says Cleveland even though the metroparks maintains it. All being said they already have a stake in this property making them a more logical intermediary.
February 10, 20241 yr On 2/8/2024 at 12:05 AM, freethink said: Yes thanks for bringing that up. The NWSL is the top woman's league in the world. The MLS is not even in the top 20 in men's soccer. You could argue that the MLS is the minor league. The MLS is soccer for Americans . I don't think you're giving enough credit to MLS. There are some quality players in the league, including Lionel Messi. It is much improved and I think it is for sure within the top 20 leagues in the world. I agree, it's not elite and it's probably below 10.
February 10, 20241 yr I like soccer...especially when they play on ice, wearing skates and using a stick and puck...
February 10, 20241 yr The start of Cleveland's MLS Next Pro team might be delayed a year until a stadium is built. https://www.clevescene.com/news/debut-of-clevelands-mls-next-pro-team-may-be-delayed-until-soccer-stadium-built-43677907
February 10, 20241 yr State Capital News. https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2024/02/09/cleveland-could-get-womens-pro-soccer-stadium-under-proposed-ohio-house-spending-bill/
March 23, 20241 yr I know that there is some excitement regarding a potential downtown soccer stadium and the 16th NWSL franchise BUT i read an national article going back to last May 2023 AND they don't even list Cleveland as a potential candidate. Has something really changed since that article was written OR is thing whole thing a pipedream? https://justwomenssports.com/reads/nwsl-expansion-2026-possible-locations-minnesota-philadelphia/
April 3, 20241 yr https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2024/04/we-have-to-do-it-now-cleveland-soccer-groups-drive-to-bring-womens-team-to-ne-ohio-moves-forward.html Cleveland Soccer Group announces 12,000 season-ticket pledges in drive to secure women’s NWSL franchise Not much additional info other than the headline, but huge news nonetheless. The other pertinent news is that NWSL will announce an expansion team by the end of 2024. The final bid is due this spring. My take: Having over 12,000 pledged season ticket holders means Cleveland will have to build a soccer stadium larger than that of the Kansas City Current, whose purpose-built stadium capacity is 11,500. Basically, we've already eclipsed KC in terms of demand and haven't even been awarded a team yet. Amazing for women's sports!
April 3, 20241 yr Also strange combo of co-owners a film producer and a finance guy…. Their net worth's aren’t massive so I’m guessing there’s a larger minority group than usual curious how this stadium turns out
April 3, 20241 yr Rock Entertainment is also involved. CEO Nick Barlage was quoted in one article I saw as continuing to help support the project, although I don't know in what capacity. At the very least, there is real backing behind this. This article is probably better and also not paywalled: https://wgno.com/business/press-releases/ein-presswire/700723856/fans-pledge-more-than-12000-season-tickets-for-clevelands-aspiring-womens-professional-soccer-team/
April 3, 20241 yr 15 minutes ago, Geowizical said: My take: Having over 12,000 pledged season ticket holders means Cleveland will have to build a soccer stadium larger than that of the Kansas City Current, whose purpose-built stadium capacity is 11,500. Basically, we've already eclipsed KC in terms of demand and haven't even been awarded a team yet. Amazing for women's sports! As someone who's followed soccer in this country very closely for a long time, I think this is a dangerous approach. Anytime a new pro soccer team is announced in this country, there are always reports of massive season ticket pledges before anything has even gone on sale. But it can be very difficult to translate all of those pledges into actual tickets, and it can be even more difficult to maintain that level for multiple years. Years 1-3 are almost always impressive from an attendance standpoint. But the newness can wear off quickly and the drop-off can be quite large. I think the far better approach is to build a high quality 10-12k seat stadium that can be expanded by 5-7k in the future if needed. The atmosphere in person and on TV is always far better when the stadium is packed, even if it's only 10-12k seats, compared to 10-12k people dispersed throughout a 20k seat stadium. If you can get over the "newness" hump and are continuing to pack the 10-12k seat stadium past the ~5 year mark, then it's probably time to consider an expansion.
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