2 minutes ago, simplythis said:

CSG's Nolan Gallagher home is up for sale. https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/cleveland-soccer-group-co-founders-home-hits-market

 

I was surprised to see Len Komoroski's name so prominently mentioned in CSG's last press release.

Not sure of any specifics, but just saw these renderings for USL Buffalo's planned stadium. 

 

Edited April 12Apr 12 by surfohio

There's going to be an announcement next week.

2 hours ago, KJP said:

There's going to be an announcement next week.

Mens or womens soccer?

5 hours ago, KJP said:

There's going to be an announcement next week.

 

Huh, I wonder why they would choose then... 

 

Seriously though, it would be good timing to make an announcement on either the clubs/stadium progress right around one of the biggest soccer games in the cities history. The city deserves better than hosting a game stolen from Columbus by an owner that doesn't want to invest in Cleveland. 

4 hours ago, CLE2BAL said:

Mens or womens soccer?

Or Stadium News?

14 hours ago, NorthShore647 said:

Huh, I wonder why they would choose then... 

Seriously though, it would be good timing to make an announcement on either the clubs/stadium progress right around one of the biggest soccer games in the cities history. The city deserves better than hosting a game stolen from Columbus by an owner that doesn't want to invest in Cleveland. 

 

I was just imagining the possibility of having women's and men's USL teams in addition to MLS Next all sharing a brand new stadium.....that would make me so happy.  

On 4/13/2025 at 10:17 AM, surfohio said:

I was just imagining the possibility of having women's and men's USL teams in addition to MLS Next all sharing a brand new stadium.....that would make me so happy.  

Agreed!  Nothing would do more for Cleveland's chances to land a big team than having a sell out crowd at this Saturday's Crew game in Cleveland.  If you're a Cleveland sports fan, I hope to see you there!

BTW- the Crew have a few local players from the Cleveland area.  Darlington Nagbe's from Lakewood, and Sean Zawadski's form Olmsted Falls.

On 4/12/2025 at 1:52 PM, surfohio said:

Not sure of any specifics, but just saw these renderings for USL Buffalo's planned stadium. 

 

 

 

 

Discussion for some thread, somewhere, but they want to play next year so they picked a less than ideal site (it's in a sports complex that belonged to a college that went under) in an industrial area. Cheaper to expand on an existing site, but the chemical plant next door opposes it and it's pretty isolated versus a downtown site that was being floated. I'm curious if the pushback will result in anything.

 

Back to Cleveland, though, even with the highway, it seems like the potential stadium site is much better re: transit access and just being convenient to the city/Gateway. 

Edited April 15Apr 15 by GISguy

1 hour ago, GISguy said:

 

Discussion for some thread, somewhere, but they want to play next year so they picked a less than ideal site (it's in a sports complex that belonged to a college that went under) in an industrial area. Cheaper to expand on an existing site, but the chemical plant next door opposes it and it's pretty isolated versus a downtown site that was being floated. I'm curious if the pushback will result in anything.

 

Back to Cleveland, though, even with the highway, it seems like the potential stadium site is much better re: transit access and just being convenient to the city/Gateway. 

 

I will give the Buffalo group some slack here. I mean, locating in an unattractive industrial area is more understandable when your owner isn't an obnnoxious billionaire begging for public funding. I understand these owners are building privately.  Anyhow the responses I was seeing on r/MLS, Buffalo fans seemed hopeful that they could eventually build larger and in a better area. And agree the Cleveland potential site seems pretty darn good. 

 

Cleveland is founding city in new pro soccer league
By Ken Prendergast / April 16, 2025

 

A new women’s professional soccer league is due to launch in 2026 and Cleveland was named as one of its 15 founding markets throughout the USA. Launch of WPSL Pro, the newest professional league in the U.S. soccer organizational pyramid, was formally announced today.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2025/04/16/cleveland-is-founding-city-in-new-pro-soccer-league/

The site is perfect for this stadium imo. Realistically what else would ever go there? And it’s still walkable to the core and parking. 
 

It seems a 10k stadium fills a void that we currently don’t have. Especially for smaller events and outdoor shows. Personally I’m excited that it could be expanded. If we ever get a big team, this location is great. I hope the footprint and quality will be consistent for a 20k stadium.  

Edited April 16Apr 16 by ITakeTheRapid

Not to reignite the league matters discussion, but we've gone from a stadium shared between a Men's minor league team and a women's major league team, to a women's top league but not the largest one, to now two definitively minor league teams. I understand there's a hierarchy with minor leagues, but this is still a meaningful downgrade.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with @ITakeTheRapid that this is an absolutely fantastic location for a stadium, but I'm left hoping that eventually this stadium will host a more prestigious team...

With this stadium being so close to the school, would St. Ignatius consider leaving Byers Field in Parma and taking residence there?

According to ESPN, 2026 will be a shortened season starting after the men's world cup and then 2027 onward will be on the April-October schedule.

 

I'm excited to have more nice-weather, likely affordable, outdoor sporting events I can take my kids to.  If the Rapid stop is added, it'll be even more appealing.  It's a little disappointing that it's not D1, but I think demonstrated fan interest in an existing team would be really helpful in ever trying to land an NWSL or USL Super League Team.

9 minutes ago, Ethan said:

I understand there's a hierarchy with minor leagues, but this is still a meaningful downgrade

Something I enjoy about soccer (especially in Europe- and maybe with USL in the near future) is that smaller teams and cities have a chance to build up to the big leagues.  You don't necessarily need a billionaire owner and you don't need the blessing of the Commissioner to get a team.  It's all about the team performance, and the fans are very passionate.  That type of club culture takes time to develop.  I think saving between $110M (NWSL) and $500M (MLS) in expansion fees and starting a more organic soccer culture is a good thing for Cleveland soccer.  I still want a top tier soccer team in Cleveland, but I think we dodged a bullet on those expansion fees.  Put the money into the team and stadium.  We'll get a top tier team if the ownership and City shows that they continually invest in and support their team.

 

PS- Cleveland Crunch were recently in the MLIS finals.  They lost, but still cool.

16 minutes ago, Dino said:

Something I enjoy about soccer (especially in Europe- and maybe with USL in the near future) is that smaller teams and cities have a chance to build up to the big leagues.  You don't necessarily need a billionaire owner and you don't need the blessing of the Commissioner to get a team.  It's all about the team performance, and the fans are very passionate.  That type of club culture takes time to develop.  I think saving between $110M (NWSL) and $500M (MLS) in expansion fees and starting a more organic soccer culture is a good thing for Cleveland soccer.  I still want a top tier soccer team in Cleveland, but I think we dodged a bullet on those expansion fees.  Put the money into the team and stadium.  We'll get a top tier team if the ownership and City shows that they continually invest in and support their team.

 

PS- Cleveland Crunch were recently in the MLIS finals.  They lost, but still cool.

100% agree with you - but it'll never be allowed here. MLS owners will need to protect their capital at all cost. I think, if anything, there may be a USL promotion system that somehow voids the relegation aspect for MLS teams. 

23 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

I think, if anything, there may be a USL promotion system that somehow voids the relegation aspect for MLS teams. 

United Soccer League Adopts Promotion and Relegation System, Ushering in a New Era for American Soccer

https://www.uslsoccer.com/news_article/show/1334700

Edited April 16Apr 16 by GISguy

50 minutes ago, Dino said:

Something I enjoy about soccer (especially in Europe- and maybe with USL in the near future) is that smaller teams and cities have a chance to build up to the big leagues.  You don't necessarily need a billionaire owner and you don't need the blessing of the Commissioner to get a team.  It's all about the team performance, and the fans are very passionate.  That type of club culture takes time to develop.  I think saving between $110M (NWSL) and $500M (MLS) in expansion fees and starting a more organic soccer culture is a good thing for Cleveland soccer.  I still want a top tier soccer team in Cleveland, but I think we dodged a bullet on those expansion fees.  Put the money into the team and stadium.  We'll get a top tier team if the ownership and City shows that they continually invest in and support their team.

 

PS- Cleveland Crunch were recently in the MLIS finals.  They lost, but still cool.

 

The thing is, elite athletes in the US want long term contracts.    They aren't going to sign with a team in danger of relegation.   So here, the rich would get richer and there'd be a lot of uncertainly down the standings.

20 minutes ago, GISguy said:

United Soccer League Adopts Promotion and Relegation System, Ushering in a New Era for American Soccer

https://www.uslsoccer.com/news_article/show/1334700

Right - I meant to top flight. Relegation/promotion is only worth so much if there isn't an aspiration to the top

3 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Cleveland is founding city in new pro soccer league
By Ken Prendergast / April 16, 2025

 

A new women’s professional soccer league is due to launch in 2026 and Cleveland was named as one of its 15 founding markets throughout the USA. Launch of WPSL Pro, the newest professional league in the U.S. soccer organizational pyramid, was formally announced today.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2025/04/16/cleveland-is-founding-city-in-new-pro-soccer-league/

 

Not sure if this topic has been mentioned previously, but do you know if any light rail connection will/can be tied to this project?

10 minutes ago, superior said:

Not sure if this topic has been mentioned previously, but do you know if any light rail connection will/can be tied to this project?

 

It has - the light rail can be easily tied to this project as the stadium is right next to (almost on top of, literally) the Red/Green/Blue Lines running into Tower City. Will it be tied to this project? That's on RTA.

Cleveland Soccer Group says they're prioritizing public transportation, so I can only assume if a station is built by the stadium they are all in. Again, at this point, the ball seems to be in RTA's court as to whether they are also all in.

 

Edited April 16Apr 16 by Geowizical

4 minutes ago, Geowizical said:

 

It has - the light rail can be easily tied to this project as the stadium is right next to (almost on top of, literally) the Red/Green/Blue Lines running into Tower City. Will it be tied to this project? That's on RTA.

Cleveland Soccer Group says they're prioritizing public transportation, so I can only assume if a station is built by the stadium they are all in. Again, at this point, the ball seems to be in RTA's court as to whether they are also all in.

 

 

Thanks

3 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Cleveland is founding city in new pro soccer league
By Ken Prendergast / April 16, 2025

 

A new women’s professional soccer league is due to launch in 2026 and Cleveland was named as one of its 15 founding markets throughout the USA. Launch of WPSL Pro, the newest professional league in the U.S. soccer organizational pyramid, was formally announced today.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2025/04/16/cleveland-is-founding-city-in-new-pro-soccer-league/

While we love the plans for the stadium south of Gateway and the Cavs/Bedrock super site, we are also intrigued by the idea of a 40-100 acre proposal for a HQ and practice facilities.  Hopefully there is a plot of land in center city to accommodate it vs Notre Dame - South Euclid. Part of the future 450 acre Burke Lakefront Nature Preserve could be considered or even with the Gordon Park bluffs. Seems like a no-brainer to attract the growing soccer/sport tourism sector.

57 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

Right - I meant to top flight. Relegation/promotion is only worth so much if there isn't an aspiration to the top

 

My apologies if you already know this, but the USL is reorganizing and its top tier will be sanctioned at the same level as MLS. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/feb/13/usl-division-i-league-mls-paul-mcdonough#:~:text=The United Soccer Leagues (USL,the same level as MLS.

Edited April 16Apr 16 by surfohio

So is the plan to have a USL men's side now? I thought they were going with MLS Next Pro. 

I hate to be a Debbie Downer but I don't see how MLS Next Pro and anything other than an NWSL team would be a good idea. The other D1 women's league, USL Superleague, is barely drawing over 2,000 fans at most of their games and they play in the winter.  MLS Next Pro is a farm system, and while that's great for MLS player development, I don't see how that would fly in a major league market with Cleveland. IMO, a USL Championship side makes more sense for the men's team. You'd have built-in rivalries with Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Detroit and Indianapolis and if they get pro/rel working, you could be in the same division as MLS.

 

For the women's side, just buy the Houston Dash or Racing Louisville and move them. I think that's the route Cincinnati is going.

 

I just don't see how you can justify such a nice soccer stadium playing in a farm system and a fly-by-night women's league. I want Cleveland soccer to work out and grow so FC Cincinnati can play you all in the Open Cup or our eventual NWSL teams can have a rivalry. But this doesn't look like a good plan at all.

Of course I'm excited to see interest and movement towards the development of a soccer stadium in Cleveland, but WPSL Pro - Really???

 

The only reasons why they wouldn't pursue at least a Women's USL Super League Team are either that they 

1. Don't have the financial resources
2. MLSNP doesn't prefer to work with an ownership group that also manages a USL team

And again, they went with MLSNP over USL 1 / USL Championship because they likely didn't have the financial resources.  

 

I have been following and watching a lot of lower league soccer in the US for years. I am more optimistic about the growth and future of US soccer than most. A new women's D-2 league is great to see, but it is far from a sure thing. You need active ownership groups that are willing to spend money to build a stronger league and attract new fans. You also need time, years to build a league up into something that can draw meaningful outside investment and fan interest. Right now the bar to get into this league is pretty low, significantly lower than what CSG could pursue. Most, if not all of the teams in the new WPSL PRO seem to have less resources than Cleveland. 

 

The WPSL PRO will exist in some major markets, but all are currently represented by MLS or USL-C teams like in Oklahoma City. Regardless of the market a lot will be playing in collegiate stadiums (or a high school football stadium like Austin). Markets where they are the biggest teams in town include; Fargo, Sioux Falls, Wichita and Columbia. 

 

The closest market to Cleveland in the WPSL is Real Central NJ, an existing amateur team making the jump up into the new league. They play in suburban Trenton. There current stadium is a Women's field hockey/soccer stadium at Rider University. 

 

This is similar to the MLS Next Pro Independent teams which play in some pretty small markets when compared to Cleveland. These include; Huntsville, Bridgeport, High Point NC, Jacksonville and Grand Rapids. Well there's Jacksonville, that's a major league market right? They are currently building their own stadium without public funds, capacity: ~2,500.

 

And I know some will way Cleveland is a new market in the current soccer landscape. Start small and grow with the fandom as you build up its presence in the market. Today there is already a league structure in the US that would facilitate that, its the USL. 

 

TL;DR - The stadium size and investment is severely mismatched with the leagues these teams will be playing in. Either raise more money to compete in higher leagues (that a market like Cleveland could easily support), or build a smaller stadium and ask for less public money. A more appropriate size for a WPSL Pro and MLSNP shared facility would be ~2,000/5,000. 

8 minutes ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

I just don't see how you can justify such a nice soccer stadium playing in a farm system and a fly-by-night women's league. I want Cleveland soccer to work out and grow so FC Cincinnati can play you all in the Open Cup or our eventual NWSL teams can have a rivalry. But this doesn't look like a good plan at all.

The Cleveland teams will be in the second tier and third tier of the US soccer pyramid.  To put it into perspective, the Cleveland Monsters are a second tier team, and the Akron RubberDucks are a third tier team in their respective sports.  I love going to those games!  And the fly-by-night Arena Football League was a blast while it lasted.  And remember that FC Cincinnati started as a second tier team with NO stadium of it's own before being elevated to top tier status.

 

If you need a top tier team in a world class stadium right out of the gate, then I agree, this might be disappointing news.  But I'm excited.  

4 minutes ago, NorthShore647 said:

Of course I'm excited to see interest and movement towards the development of a soccer stadium in Cleveland, but WPSL Pro - Really???

 

I am no longer so optimistic about Cleveland soccer lol. 

Let's maybe support them instead of declaring it DOA - otherwise we just feed into the narrative

36 minutes ago, Dino said:

54 minutes ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

I just don't see how you can justify such a nice soccer stadium playing in a farm system and a fly-by-night women's league. I want Cleveland soccer to work out and grow so FC Cincinnati can play you all in the Open Cup or our eventual NWSL teams can have a rivalry. But this doesn't look like a good plan at all.

The Cleveland teams will be in the second tier and third tier of the US soccer pyramid.  To put it into perspective, the Cleveland Monsters are a second tier team, and the Akron RubberDucks are a third tier team in their respective sports.  I love going to those games!  And the fly-by-night Arena Football League was a blast while it lasted.  And remember that FC Cincinnati started as a second tier team with NO stadium of it's own before being elevated to top tier status.

 

If you need a top tier team in a world class stadium right out of the gate, then I agree, this might be disappointing news.  But I'm excited.  

 

For a lot of reasons, lower tier Soccer doesn't equate well at all to lower tier Hockey, Baseball, Basketball, Football (certainly not 1:1 between the pyramids). 

 

 If you are to make the comparison though (in terms of investment, fan interest and caliber of play), for Hockey the USL-C and USL-1 would be the rough equivalents to the AHL and ECHL. These lower tier leagues MLSNP and WPSL Pro would be closer to junior leagues like the USHL. The drop off in fan interest between USL-1 and MLSNP is a lot more sever than the drop between AHL and USHL though. What CSG is asking for is an AHL caliber arena for a junior hockey league team. 

 

For baseball USL-C would be Triple-A (with the roadmap to challenge for big league status) while MLSNP and WPSL Pro would be Frontier League. CSG wants a Triple-A stadium for the a team like the Lake Erie Crushers. 

1 hour ago, surfohio said:

 

My apologies if you already know this, but the USL is reorganizing and its top tier will be sanctioned at the same level as MLS. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/feb/13/usl-division-i-league-mls-paul-mcdonough#:~:text=The United Soccer Leagues (USL,the same level as MLS.

Maybe not the right thread for this grievance - but it took MASSIVE investment in MLS to get it ranked above the English Championship (finally) in leagues overall - I'm not sure a USL pyramid, even with its unique categorizations, will have a top flight even competitive with MLS. It may have its shot in some CONCACAF and domestic cup tournaments, but we'll see. 

 

The most fundamental issue with MLS has also been its refusal to adopt FIFA's standard schedule - if USL is willing to do that, it may help

1 hour ago, Willo said:

While we love the plans for the stadium south of Gateway and the Cavs/Bedrock super site, we are also intrigued by the idea of a 40-100 acre proposal for a HQ and practice facilities.  Hopefully there is a plot of land in center city to accommodate it vs Notre Dame - South Euclid. Part of the future 450 acre Burke Lakefront Nature Preserve could be considered or even with the Gordon Park bluffs. Seems like a no-brainer to attract the growing soccer/sport tourism sector.

Eh, a training center isn't particularly dense from a land use perspective. Even 40 acres is a lot of land that I think Cleveland could find a better use of 40 acres than utilizing it for minor league soccer training area. 

 

40 minutes ago, NorthShore647 said:

The stadium size and investment is severely mismatched with the leagues these teams will be playing in. Either raise more money to compete in higher leagues (that a market like Cleveland could easily support), or build a smaller stadium and ask for less public money. A more appropriate size for a WPSL Pro and MLSNP shared facility would be ~2,000/5,000. 

I think this is the right take, particularly if public money is involved, which it almost certainly will be. The ask now seems too big for the teams that will utilize it, and it is incongruous with what the city will get back in revenue and prestige. 

16 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

Maybe not the right thread for this grievance - but it took MASSIVE investment in MLS to get it ranked above the English Championship (finally) in leagues overall - I'm not sure a USL pyramid, even with its unique categorizations, will have a top flight even competitive with MLS. It may have its shot in some CONCACAF and domestic cup tournaments, but we'll see. 

 

The most fundamental issue with MLS has also been its refusal to adopt FIFA's standard schedule - if USL is willing to do that, it may help

 

Fair points, and I agree. From what I have read USL isn't really trying to "compete" with MLS, at least not in the traditional sense. But one x-factor USL has going for it is there is no salary cap. So what I can envision happening in the future is USL having a few superteams who could potentially beat anyone. But strong agree that from a league standpoint it won't be as high quality as MLS.  

I don't know much about soccer. Most of what I know comes from Ted Lasso. But it strikes me that the gap between MLS and other U.S. leagues is way smaller than it is in other sports, such as in American Football, where everything else is a total joke compared to NFL or in baseball, where MLB effectively controls most of the minor leagues. The USL's decision to adopt the relegation/promotion system seems important to me, and it's not obvious that MLS's long-term hegemony is secure.

 

All just to say that I don't think we should scoff at which league the teams will be in. Again, not an expert in any of this, but it seems like there's a lot more opportunity for teams in a brand new soccer league to thrive compared to a new league in any other sport.

 

 

14 minutes ago, Ethan said:

I think this is the right take, particularly if public money is involved, which it almost certainly will be. The ask now seems too big for the teams that will utilize it, and it is incongruous with what the city will get back in revenue and prestige.

I'm surprised by all the negativity.  No one really knows what they are even asking for in terms of public money at this point.  It's implied that they will request a TIF and decline any new tax proceeds.  I have no idea what attendance is like at women's soccer matches, but average attendance at MLSNP is about 4k for teams without another team. (https://nextpronews.substack.com/p/mls-next-pro-2024-attendance-report).  So if you're looking to start a team with the hopes it grows, I wouldn't plan anything smaller than 10K.  I mean, Lakewood High School has a 10k stadium.  One of the reasons it's as big as it is, is that it's seen as a community asset.  I gotta believe the City of Cleveland could support this to help benefit local high schools and such, in addition to helping the pro soccer teams.  

 

39 minutes ago, Geowizical said:

Let's maybe support them instead of declaring it DOA - otherwise we just feed into the narrative

^I'm with @Geowizical on this.

On a semi-related side note how are ticket sales for this weekend’s Crew match going?  

19 minutes ago, Dino said:

 

 

I'm surprised by all the negativity.  No one really knows what they are even asking for in terms of public money at this point.  It's implied that they will request a TIF and decline any new tax proceeds.  I have no idea what attendance is like at women's soccer matches, but average attendance at MLSNP is about 4k for teams without another team. (https://nextpronews.substack.com/p/mls-next-pro-2024-attendance-report).  So if you're looking to start a team with the hopes it grows, I wouldn't plan anything smaller than 10K.  I mean, Lakewood High School has a 10k stadium.  One of the reasons it's as big as it is, is that it's seen as a community asset.  I gotta believe the City of Cleveland could support this to help benefit local high schools and such, in addition to helping the pro soccer teams.  

 

^I'm with @Geowizical on this.

This is a great reply, and a good point! I'm probably jumping the gun on assumptions here, especially with regards to public funding. And the High School sports point one is a good point, though it does tie into my pessimism a bit. The fact that we are comparing likely attendance to high school football games is a decent reason to at least temper our optimism. 

 

--

 

This forum seems to have an interesting bias towards soccer, which is counter to the United States as a whole, (soccer is definitely growing though, no argument from me). I just think we need to remember that the same principles should apply regarding public funding to millionaire minor league soccer team owners as should apply to billionaire NFL owners. As I've said previously, the public asks could pencil out in this case depending on anticipated attendance and how much money is requested (as well as how) but we should still retain the same skepticism regardless if it's men or women's sports, football or soccer. 

Just for fun...AFC Bournemouth is in 8th place in the Premier League and has an 11K capacity stadium.  Looks kind of like the Cleveland renderings!

 

Just now, Dino said:

Just for fun...AFC Bournemouth is in 8th place in the Premier League and has an 11K capacity stadium.  Looks kind of like the Cleveland renderings!

 

 

And then there's 9,500 seat Luton Town who were just relegates last year, who literally had an entry gate to a stand through a residential block

18 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

I don't know much about soccer. Most of what I know comes from Ted Lasso. But it strikes me that the gap between MLS and other U.S. leagues is way smaller than it is in other sports, such as in American Football, where everything else is a total joke compared to NFL or in baseball, where MLB effectively controls most of the minor leagues. The USL's decision to adopt the relegation/promotion system seems important to me, and it's not obvious that MLS's long-term hegemony is secure.

 

Still have not seen Ted Lasso!

 

Picture it like this: MLS is like traditional Mac computer....it's well-designed, has great marketing and brand awareness and beloved, but it is more "closed architecture" so while all models will be pretty darn good, they aren't easy to access or upgrade. Now USL is gonna be more like traditional PC. Cheaper options to buy. Some will be pretty good, others just okay or maybe even terrible...but each computer is more their own entity and capable of very significant upgrades, or downgrades. 

 

Cities like Cleveland, Buffalo, New Orleans, Oakland, Detroit, Indy, Tampa, Phoenix, OKC, Pittsburgh, Las Vegas etc. etc. are "PC metros" that, unlike Cincy, missed out on that early Apple/MLS stock and now most cannot afford the buy-in. So, that's where USL plays a major role by giving all these left out metros a chance to compete at a high level. 

4 minutes ago, Dino said:

I'm surprised by all the negativity.  No one really knows what they are even asking for in terms of public money at this point.  It's implied that they will request a TIF and decline any new tax proceeds.  I have no idea what attendance is like at women's soccer matches, but average attendance at MLSNP is about 4k for teams without another team. (https://nextpronews.substack.com/p/mls-next-pro-2024-attendance-report).  So if you're looking to start a team with the hopes it grows, I wouldn't plan anything smaller than 10K.  I mean, Lakewood High School has a 10k stadium.  One of the reasons it's as big as it is, is that it's seen as a community asset.  I gotta believe the City of Cleveland could support this to help benefit local high schools and such, in addition to helping the pro soccer teams.

 

MLSNP attendance for independent teams is not ~4,000. Only one team is above ~4,000. Most are much closer to or below ~1,000 with many teams not even bothering to report numbers. Some teams don't even make tickets available to the public. 

 

One team, Huntsville has their reported average attendance of over 4,000. They play in a former minor league baseball stadium that used to seat 10,000, but was reduced through renovation to 6,000. The stadium sat empty for years as its original tenants the Stars left for Biloxi.

 

Two other Clubs that are drawing reasonably well are High Point and Chattanooga. Carolina Core (High Point NC) draw under 4,000 at there home venue, a 8,500 seat minor league baseball stadium whose primary tenant plays in the independent Atlantic League. Chattanooga plays at UT Chattanooga's FCS Football teams ~20,000 seat stadium. They do relatively well at drawing in fans because they have been playing in other leagues since 2009 (and also have one of the only fan ownership models in all of American sports). North Texas SC averages ~1,000 in the newly renovated 48,000 capacity Choctaw Stadium (the old Glove Life Field in Arlington). 

 

TL;DR - I wouldn't consider any of these examples (two secondary tenants and two renovated baseball fields that sat empty once their original teams left) as reasonable justification to build a new 10,000 seat venue in the same league. 

 

Sure there are other ways to justify a 10,000 seat venue, but the upstart Division-2 WPSL Pro team is not substantial enough at all. It could serve as a facility for area high schools and universities, but it would be limited to their soccer (and possibly lacrosse) teams. 

Hopefully the Cleveland soccer folks have a plan about how they are going to talk about and promote these leagues. Northeast Ohioans are going to react with a bit of annoyance/offense to getting two minor league teams when our peers have pro teams. I could see the logic in doing it this way since we don't have any teams at all. If we were growing faster with more international residents, it'd probably be easier. And if the team investors had more money, it'd be easier still! 

 

I think this is going to be a tough one to build a strong fanbase. 

 

41 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

And then there's 9,500 seat Luton Town who were just relegates last year, who literally had an entry gate to a stand through a residential block

I’ve been through that turnstile at Luton as a Man City fan visiting there in the 80s, it is kinda wild. It’s not quite as extreme, but QPR is another stadium that you get into by taking alleyways down the sides of peoples houses. So many of those old-school English stadiums were built in densely-populated, working class, inner-city areas, because that’s where the fans were 100+ years ago. Many of them have sadly gone over the last few decades, but it was always amazing to be walking around a tightly-packed set of terraced streets with a 50k+ capacity stadium literally yards away from where you were standing, but you’d have no idea it was even there until you turned the corner and wham! there it was. The old grounds at places like Man City, Derby County, Middlesbrough and West Ham were just like that. 

I'm also surprised at some of the support for this. We cannot seriously consider public funds for a stadium to host a division 2 team in a newly formed league.  Obviously the ask for public funds hasn't been made yet, but it's implied that it's coming in some form. Use any number of the existing stadiums in the area for this. 

2 minutes ago, MostlyThere14 said:

I'm also surprised at some of the support for this. We cannot seriously consider public funds for a stadium to host a division 2 team in a newly formed league.  Obviously the ask for public funds hasn't been made yet, but it's implied that it's coming in some form. Use any number of the existing stadiums in the area for this. 

 

I would support public funding if the building could also be used for high school and college tournaments, free/low-cost soccer clinics for kids and other special events. 

without softball, they could add a grand stand, locker rooms, and concessions to krenzler field.

 

you also have to seriously consider that the 50 million number may be low.

49 minutes ago, roman totale XVII said:

I’ve been through that turnstile at Luton as a Man City fan visiting there in the 80s, it is kinda wild. It’s not quite as extreme, but QPR is another stadium that you get into by taking alleyways down the sides of peoples houses. So many of those old-school English stadiums were built in densely-populated, working class, inner-city areas, because that’s where the fans were 100+ years ago. Many of them have sadly gone over the last few decades, but it was always amazing to be walking around a tightly-packed set of terraced streets with a 50k+ capacity stadium literally yards away from where you were standing, but you’d have no idea it was even there until you turned the corner and wham! there it was. The old grounds at places like Man City, Derby County, Middlesbrough and West Ham were just like that. 

I've been to a match at Loftus Road when Spurs played them (pre-covid)... I've never felt more "on top" of the game in my life... I was probably 20 feet above the pitch, but only 15 or 16 feet away from it

1 hour ago, MostlyThere14 said:

I'm also surprised at some of the support for this. We cannot seriously consider public funds for a stadium to host a division 2 team in a newly formed league.  Obviously the ask for public funds hasn't been made yet, but it's implied that it's coming in some form. Use any number of the existing stadiums in the area for this. 

 

The ask has been made. Check out the cost estimates for a stadium for Division 1 NWSL teams in Denver and Boston -- $200 million-plus. Starting out at that level is a really tall hill to climb. An expandable stadium is probably the way to do it here, and that's what CSG is doing.