If CSU wants football then they should go big with using the Browns stadium. I believe Pitt now uses the Heinz field as their football stadium. Why waste space and money on another stadium that is used 6-7x a year at most.  That would be a selling point for a football program. The issue would likely be finding a conference to join so they might need to be independent for a while.

That would save space for a soccer specific field at Krenzler.  However, I agree that a league will not like relying on a college for the stadium.

 

In that thread, I actually mentioned Pitt at Heinz as a cautionary tale for sports teams moving into a stadium that's too large for them. Check out Pitt's football trajectory since changing stadiums to see what I mean. There is actually a grassroots movement at Pitt right now to build a new on-campus stadium because Heinz has been so disastrous for them.

Soccer at First Energy is a nonstarter until a team can regularly sellout at least the lower bowl.

^From reading stories it doesn’t sound “disastrous”.  It sounds like a mediocre team playing new schedules of unknown ACC teams and no Penn State on the schedule with very little focused marketing or giveaways.

  So maybe the package deal could be CSU using the stadium for 10 years for CSU football and the Force(?) also using the Browns stadium for 10 years.  That would add an additional 25+ days a year of use for a stadium that sees maybe 12-13 days?

^From reading stories it doesn’t sound “disastrous”.  It sounds like a mediocre team playing new schedules of unknown ACC teams and no Penn State on the schedule with very little focused marketing or giveaways.

  So maybe the package deal could be CSU using the stadium for 10 years for CSU football and the Force(?) also using the Browns stadium for 10 years.  That would add an additional 25+ days a year of use for a stadium that sees maybe 12-13 days?

 

I get your logic, but I just think that is WAY too big for both CSU and the Force

^I agree. That is why I don’t see a football team being realistic. They are in Division 1 with Horizon. 5000 less in enrollment than Wright St. maybe if the enrollment was at 18-22000, it would be realistic to even think about a big football program. Keep in mind that big programs like Notre Dame may play this future CSU team but it would only be as part of a cupcake early matchup in South Bend, IN. So any teams coming to CLE would be smaller schools of whatever conference.  Its a totally losing proposition. Only schools with tradition does it make sense to keep doing it.

  To go with a small football program and build a small stadium still costs a lot of money that is not being spent on other programs. They would need to find a small Div 1 conference and would likely serve as doormats for Army or Navy or even YSU until they did.  That is why I would say a soccer specific field is the way to go.  But I think sizing is difficult if the school needs only 3000-4000 capacity but if pro team wants 10-14000.  I just don’t see how any of this will work.

 

not to play moderator here, but the last twenty comments have been about a non-existent college football program.

^I agree. That is why I don’t see a football team being realistic. They are in Division 1 with Horizon. 5000 less in enrollment than Wright St. maybe if the enrollment was at 18-22000, it would be realistic to even think about a big football program. Keep in mind that big programs like Notre Dame may play this future CSU team but it would only be as part of a cupcake early matchup in South Bend, IN. So any teams coming to CLE would be smaller schools of whatever conference.  Its a totally losing proposition. Only schools with tradition does it make sense to keep doing it.

  To go with a small football program and build a small stadium still costs a lot of money that is not being spent on other programs. They would need to find a small Div 1 conference and would likely serve as doormats for Army or Navy or even YSU until they did.  That is why I would say a soccer specific field is the way to go.  But I think sizing is difficult if the school needs only 3000-4000 capacity but if pro team wants 10-14000.  I just don’t see how any of this will work.

 

Well (and to bring it back on topic here) I believe a 10,000 seat venue would be perfect for both. That is the sweet spot, I think. I think that would be suitable for the Force and if CSU decides to use it. There’s a way to build it so that it can be multi-tenant oriented

Sheesh, that went waaaay out of hand.

I was simply stating that Yabo attended a meeting that would possibly set off a project, which would be great to lease to other sports.

And it was also speaking about any kind of new amenities the campus would need in order to support this stadium. Yeah, CSU has an intention to build a stadium, but that doesnt mean we need a football team to support it. We have plenty of sports that play on that caliber of a field.

 

Back to the Force, I wouldn't mind if CSU built the stadium they intend on building, and having CSU Lease the field to the Force. This is probably best case scenario for a stadium downtown. If we were to go local, Byers Field in Parma would be a better option than none.

I know I'm late to this party, but how far out would people be willing to go for USL? I'd much prefer - or really demand - a downtown or nearby neighborhood location, but what about locations further out but still with a Cleveland address? Are places further out  but transit accessible like West Park/Kamm's Corners, Collinwood, or Shaker sit well with people?

I know I'm late to this party, but how far out would people be willing to go for USL? I'd much prefer - or really demand - a downtown or nearby neighborhood location, but what about locations further out but still with a Cleveland address? Are places further out  but transit accessible like West Park/Kamm's Corners, Collinwood, or Shaker sit well with people?

 

I summarize it for myself and a group of friends... If its in Cleveland, and we can walk from bars... we'll be there.

I'd like to see a downtown location for USL games.  I went to a bunch of the old Cleveland City Stars games back when they played at CSU.  But when they started playing their games farther out (I think in Solon??) I never went.  What was wrong w/ using the CSU field??  Or even the field at CWRU??  Or even a location like the St Ignatius field off of Lorain seems like it would be close enough to downtown.

I'd like to see a downtown location for USL games.  I went to a bunch of the old Cleveland City Stars games back when they played at CSU.  But when they started playing their games farther out (I think in Solon??) I never went.  What was wrong w/ using the CSU field??  Or even the field at CWRU??  Or even a location like the St Ignatius field off of Lorain seems like it would be close enough to downtown.

 

Bingo. CSU or St. Ignatius are obvious targets for collaboration. Solon or Bedford are Siberia. I'll probably draw some flak for thinking of Collinwood and Shaker Heights as "almost" Siberia.

 

cleguy9618[/member]'s mention of Kamm's Corners is interesting, but even that is too far off the grid in my humble opinion. 

If I recall, the City Stars were promoted and the new league had minimum stadium capacity requirements.  CSU was too small and they ended up playing in Bedford. So getting promoted ended up being the beginning of the end.

This seems like the best thread for this. And here's a sentence you don't hear very often.

 

I wanted to make sure there were opportunities for new players as well. I called Sam up to see what he had to say.” Seibert met Osborne at a pub in East Cleveland and the two believed in each other right away.

 

 

 

https://www.protagonistsoccer.com/features/being-as-cleveland-as-possible

This is a nice read about Clevelanf SC. Has anybody had any info from Greg Abrams on his bid for a Cleveland USL team and stadium.

Anything new on this? Let's keep this discussion active. Do we know who owns the various riverfront parcels SE of Jacob's Field? Copying a tweet/thread from late November that may or may not be of any significance. CIN-based journalist talking about it. https://twitter.com/QueenCityDisco/status/1068593122819620871. 

^ There are already a ton of programs like that in Cleveland though. John Carroll, BW, Case, Ashland, Wooster, Mt. Union just to name a few. Yes, they are D II and III but is it really that much different than FCS? Yes, there is a big drop off from FBS, but otherwise, there are talented kids who can still play football in the area and get a great education. These schools have 3-6000 seat stadiums like you propose. Heck they can redo the stadium at JCU Or BW instead of building a new one at CSU and accomplish the same goal much cheaper.

It's funny, I was just looking at the Lakefront thread and thinking about how amazing of a soccer atmosphere First Energy stadium would be if we could incorporate residences and restaurants/bars into the Lakefront, changing it from a deadzone into its own neighborhood. 

12 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

^ There are already a ton of programs like that in Cleveland though. John Carroll, BW, Case, Ashland, Wooster, Mt. Union just to name a few. Yes, they are D II and III but is it really that much different than FCS? Yes, there is a big drop off from FBS, but otherwise, there are talented kids who can still play football in the area and get a great education. These schools have 3-6000 seat stadiums like you propose. Heck they can redo the stadium at JCU Or BW instead of building a new one at CSU and accomplish the same goal much cheaper.

Playing at JCU or BW may make sense in some regards, but I think the suburbs are a  surefire recipe for failure. 

4 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

^ There are already a ton of programs like that in Cleveland though. John Carroll, BW, Case, Ashland, Wooster, Mt. Union just to name a few. Yes, they are D II and III but is it really that much different than FCS? Yes, there is a big drop off from FBS, but otherwise, there are talented kids who can still play football in the area and get a great education. These schools have 3-6000 seat stadiums like you propose. Heck they can redo the stadium at JCU Or BW instead of building a new one at CSU and accomplish the same goal much cheaper.

Building it in the suburbs makes sense if your goal is to make the team fail. If you actually want to succeed, CSU or somewhere in or right outside of downtown makes the most sense

they could play at First Energy and then decide where to put a stadium if it appears successful. It is walking distance to bars and entertainment, in the city, easy transportation options, and gives that stadium an addition 15-20 events a year of use.

 

Indy uses Lucas Oil for their USL team. Why not Cleveland.

NFL stadiums are not conducive to small crowds. A lower division soccer team needs a good impression on the first game, and First Energy would not provide that.

 

Part of what made FC Cincinnati so successful is that they got 14k people on a cold day in April in a stadium that had a reduced capacity (ie no upper level seats sold) of about 25k people. If they would have played that game in Paul Brown Stadium, 14k people would have looked tiny in a lower level capacity of 45k+. Indy Eleven has a dedicated group already that followed the team to Lucas Oil. They used to play in a much more intimate venue.

 

Playing in a smaller stadium with full amenities in important for a game where atmosphere is extremely important.

2 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

NFL stadiums are not conducive to small crowds. A lower division soccer team needs a good impression on the first game, and First Energy would not provide that.

 

Part of what made FC Cincinnati so successful is that they got 14k people on a cold day in April in a stadium that had a reduced capacity (ie no upper level seats sold) of about 25k people. If they would have played that game in Paul Brown Stadium, 14k people would have looked tiny in a lower level capacity of 45k+. Indy Eleven has a dedicated group already that followed the team to Lucas Oil. They used to play in a much more intimate venue.

 

Playing in a smaller stadium with full amenities in important for a game where atmosphere is extremely important.

 

I pretty much agree with you. However, with the seat wraps, similar to what was used in Orlando, what is used in part in Seattle, and what is used at Yankee Stadium can help alleviate some of that. The lower bowl of First Energy seats about 28-30,000, a sold out lower bowl with wrapped seats above is still a pretty cool atmosphere. 

I think it CAN work, but it has to be very carefully planned.

 

They would probably want to start by only opening up half of the stadium's lower level. 80% full on one half of the lower bowl would look a lot better than 40% full in the whole lower bowl.

I'm not too familiar with First Energy Stadium, so I can't really speak to the atmosphere there. At Paul Brown, the configuration is very open, which reduces the ability to create a positive atmosphere. Nippert Stadium was one of the keys to FC Cincinnati's success. It was a smaller venue that is the lowest point on campus surrounded by buildings. It felt intimate while providing a very professional atmosphere. 

 

I went to Lucas Oil Stadium last year when FC Cincinnati played Indy Eleven, and they did an ok job transitioning to soccer. I think having it indoors also helped. They were able to pretty successfully curtain off the upper levels, so it felt like they weren't really there. I don't think that's possible in a large outdoor stadium like First Energy or Paul Brown. 

Lord knows FES could use more tenants. An authentic atmosphere is not impossible to create in a stadium like that, but requires a truly passionate fanbase, which Cleveland would obviously have to start creating and fostering from Day 1. It would not be pretty early on, however.

 

If the Force guys are in the process of stadium site procurement, etc., are there any public documents (if they even exist) available that could tip someone off as to a site or design plans or anything? Wish ClevelandScene or Crain's would do a follow-up....

I think it ultimately depends on who the big-money investor will be for this team. (I assume that the Force crew will need more financial backing to join the USL.)   Haslam would mean Browns Stadium is more likely.  Gilbert could mean a site by the river. Wolsteins could be involved, but not sure what location that would point to.  

If we're going for USL, we don't need billionaire owners who could afford to lose on this venture. We'd need someone like the Wolsteins, Bernie Moreno, or a collection of prominent businessman, lawyers, etc. who would have more invested in the success and long term vision of the club. 

I agree I'd like local ownership that is dedicated day-to-day to the club, however the reality is that U.S. Soccer standards mandate a primary owner (min. 35% stake) have a net worth of at least $57 million at the D2 level, and the USL will likely want a lead investor to have significantly more than that.  If you look around at other new USL clubs, there is big money behind almost all of them.  Not saying it's impossible for some of those local investors you mention, but it does seem like a pretty big chunk for them to take on.

A D2 soccer club is chump change for King James. Nice little venture to foster new and fresh good PR with his home? I know, absolutely ridiculous and won't happen, but still come on, King!. If only Melo's Puerto Rico FC had done better, then maybe LeBron would've explored the possibility. 

20 hours ago, zips1015 said:

A D2 soccer club is chump change for King James. Nice little venture to foster new and fresh good PR with his home? I know, absolutely ridiculous and won't happen, but still come on, King!. If only Melo's Puerto Rico FC had done better, then maybe LeBron would've explored the possibility. 

 

LeBron James has minority ownership of a soccer team.  It just so happens it's one of the more renown teams in the world- Liverpool.  I doubt LeBron would be interested in a second tier professional team in any location.  His focus is usually a lot bigger.  It would be nice though. 

9 hours ago, superior said:

 

LeBron James has minority ownership of a soccer team.  It just so happens it's one of the more renown teams in the world- Liverpool.  I doubt LeBron would be interested in a second tier professional team in any location.  His focus is usually a lot bigger.  It would be nice though. 

Aware of that. Would not have been surprised if he had tried to develop a NYCFC equivalent for Liverpool here, or something on similar but smaller scale to help promote Liverpool. But sadly it seems to be just a mutually beneficial endorsement partnership between LeBron and Fenway Sports Group that doesn't seem to have anything more to it.

Have any of you actually been to a soccer game at FES?  Even with the US mens team drawing a healthy crowd of say 25K the stadium still feels empty, and FES is one of the better NFL stadiums to use.  Part of the reason it feels so empty, besides the deserted upper levels, is that the field is much further away thank at a Soccer Specific Stadium.  This is really true along the sidelines, there isn't all the associated personnel that come with a football game so it becomes wasted space.

 

A new stadium downtown would be best, with 15K that is easily expandable to 25K as capacity would be best. The atmosphere going into the stadium is just as important. 

On 2/27/2019 at 1:30 PM, tedders55 said:

Have any of you actually been to a soccer game at FES?  Even with the US mens team drawing a healthy crowd of say 25K the stadium still feels empty, and FES is one of the better NFL stadiums to use.  Part of the reason it feels so empty, besides the deserted upper levels, is that the field is much further away thank at a Soccer Specific Stadium.  This is really true along the sidelines, there isn't all the associated personnel that come with a football game so it becomes wasted space.

 

A new stadium downtown would be best, with 15K that is easily expandable to 25K as capacity would be best. The atmosphere going into the stadium is just as important. 

Yes a few ICC matches and the infamous Belgium match that didn't exactly help our soccer reputation....point re atmosphere is critical. It feeds supporter culture by helping fans feel involved in the game. Important at the highest levels and even more so with a fledgling club trying to generate interested fans.

https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/local/cleveland/loew-park-in-old-brooklyn-getting-major-upgrade/95-893d1a34-0afe-4fa6-a17f-2adf9f3766aa

now this isn't the proposed usl stadium for the cleveland usl team.

There may be some news on the USL stadium very soon. They have a site but I want to know if it's going to be USL-only or if CSU will be a part of it.

1 hour ago, KJP said:

There may be some news on the USL stadium very soon. They have a site but I want to know if it's going to be USL-only or if CSU will be a part of it.

So the site will be somewhere around CSU

Nyet

Hmmmm. Is it downtown?

Da.

On the Jacobs lot?  I joke...I remember there being talk of the Wolstein Center going bye bye, would this be a possibility or would CSU have plans for that site?

 

I have always loved what Case did with their stadium tucked within the dorms. I would be thrilled if CSU could pull something like that off at the site of the Wolstein. There is nothing to be proud of with the current Wolstein Center, both as an urbanist and a CSU alum. It would really be a win for all if done right. Density in a much needed area of downtown, improved walkability even if it doesn't come with a ton of retail, and an improved image for a growing school. KJP, tell me that might happen!

Edited March 22, 20196 yr by YO to the CLE

So who would own the stadium? is this a CSU project that a USL would rent or will it be jointly developed by the USL team and CSU, or will it be developed by the city and rented to both CSU and the USL team?

I've left voicemails for each of the Abrams brothers to find out who might be involved.

Edited March 22, 20196 yr by KJP

59 minutes ago, KJP said:

I've left voicemails for each of the Abrams brothers to find out who might be involved.

 

If they've got their location, it must be all...... downhill..... from here. Winning guess? 

15 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

If they've got their location, it must be all...... downhill..... from here. Winning guess? 

 

Yeah, because you saw my graphic of it for the blog. Cheater!

4 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Yeah, because you saw my graphic of it for the blog. Cheater!

 

"If you're not cheating you're not trying"

 

- Lori Laughlin / Trump Jr. / Barry Bonds 

5 hours ago, YABO713 said:

 

If they've got their location, it must be all...... downhill..... from here. Winning guess? 

 

The bottom of Lake Erie?  That's as downhill as it gets.  Finally Cleveland gets a domed stadium!

Edited March 22, 20196 yr by jeremyck01

2 hours ago, jeremyck01 said:

 

The bottom of Lake Erie?  That's as downhill as it gets.  Finally Cleveland gets a domed stadium!

It's going to be a stop on the ferry to Canada!

THE BUBBLE BOWL!!!!
 

2 hours ago, jeremyck01 said:

 

The bottom of Lake Erie?  That's as downhill as it gets.  Finally Cleveland gets a domed stadium!

 

There's already a stadium down there. Disassembled.