September 17, 20213 yr 49 minutes ago, Clefan98 said: Things will never improve, huh? Smart investors are looking into the future, not at yesterday's stats. it's a legitimate question when we are talking about adding a significant hotel operation to the downtown, in addition to all the rooms that have been added in last 5 years. Not sure why you felt the need to respond with snark. Have a great day.
September 17, 20213 yr I think the snark was about using pandemic era hotel occupancy to determine the viability of a hotel that wouldn't be opening for 2-3 years even in the best of circumstances.
September 17, 20213 yr Wasn't there a proposal recently to add more floors to the tower or was that just a joke?
September 17, 20213 yr 8 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: Wasn't there a proposal recently to add more floors to the tower or was that just a joke? It was neither "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 17, 20213 yr On 1/21/2020 at 10:47 PM, Boomerang_Brian said: I love the idea of adding 5 residential floors, adding 60-75 ft in height, which would take Erieview from the 9th tallest in the state (at 529 ft) to the 6th tallest, beating out the Carew in Cincinnati at 574ft. Of course I also realize it isn’t going to happen and I shouldn’t get my hopes up; it’s just fun to imagine. (in that vein, 200 Public Square would only need a way to add 3 ft in height to become the third tallest in the state.) On 1/21/2020 at 10:52 PM, Boomerang_Brian said: The 5 floor adder rendering from that link. Sorry I couldn’t get better resolution. 1 hour ago, LibertyBlvd said: Wasn't there a proposal recently to add more floors to the tower or was that just a joke? Here is part of that conversation. Yes, there was a real proposal for adding floors and an engineering analysis that supported the possibility. I think they were not able to assemble financing. One important note - if they use historic tax credits, they can’t make this type of modification for at least 7 years after project completion. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
September 20, 20213 yr You won't find many commercial real estate brokers in town who think the W Hotel is a serious project. W isn't putting its own money into this. That means Kassouf would have to self-finance it. So.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 20, 20213 yr That is too bad. Wish this was in the hands of someone else because it could be a great project.
September 20, 20213 yr I am not familiar with the W Hotel brand. Do they typically locate in existing facilities vs. building new?
September 20, 20213 yr 53 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: I am not familiar with the W Hotel brand. Do they typically locate in existing facilities vs. building new? The brand started back when Women's Wear Daily was calling itself "W" and trying to appeal to a more general female audience, not just people in the trade. It began as a trendy looking hotel (stark black and white public rooms) where a woman could have an after-work drink without being hit on, unless she wanted to be. It was probably twice the price of a Courtyard-class business hotel. Lately under Marriott it has become unisex and priced in the 4-and-a-half star category. Edit: W started out converting existing hotels, but now builds new ones as well. Edited September 20, 20213 yr by Dougal Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
September 20, 20213 yr 3 hours ago, KJP said: You won't find many commercial real estate brokers in town who think the W Hotel is a serious project. W isn't putting its own money into this. That means Kassouf would have to self-finance it. So.... So expanding on this, what exactly is the plan for the Tower? They are losing office tenants rapidly. The Galleria is losing the Winking Lizard. The YMCA is condo'd off, so technically not even a tenant. What is left in there? I walked through about 2 months ago and it was totally dead. I'm trying to track what the owner's have actually done since acquiring this building....? It's been about 4-5 years now, correct? What's the time frame for them to get the historic tax credits utilized into a real project? Apartments has been discussed of course, which would hopefully add enough 24 hr population to add some options for programming the Galleria. Edited September 20, 20213 yr by gottaplan
September 20, 20213 yr I walked through there a few weeks ago and even the food court was completely empty. Pre-COVID there was still some activity in the food court.
September 20, 20213 yr 1 hour ago, freefourur said: I walked through there a few weeks ago and even the food court was completely empty. Pre-COVID there was still some activity in the food court. The Galleria people terminated all the food court leases. I heard a few years ago they wanted to turn the area into a German style beer garden.
September 20, 20213 yr The deterioration of that food court is - despite all of the great progress - how much the overall employment levels have dropped off in downtown Cleveland. Especially along the 9th street corridor. Love the residential development but the vitality of the district depends on workers.
February 9, 20223 yr Tower at Erieview apartments will carry the W brand, in Marriott's first foray into rentals "The lower floors of the 40-story downtown Cleveland office tower already are slated to become a W hotel, under a deal announced last fall by Marriott International Inc. and members of the Kassouf family, the building's owners. Now that lofty repositioning will extend to the living spaces upstairs, where tenants will have access to in-room dining, cleaning, laundry services and other amenities. Representatives for Marriott and the Kassoufs confirmed this week that the parties have inked a licensing deal, marking the hospitality giant's entrée into the apartment market." https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/tower-erieview-apartments-will-carry-w-brand-marriotts-first-foray-rentals?utm_source=breaking-news-alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20220209&utm_content=hero-headline
February 9, 20223 yr Curious that Marriott's foray into this kind of business is with a company that is also new to the housing game. Let's see how this plays out.
February 9, 20223 yr This is a pretty big deal for Cleveland. The W has a well-earned and maintained trendy reputation and on top of that it always has very cool nightspots and restaurants as part of its offerings. I’ve stayed/visited a few of them and I’m always impressed, the last one I stayed in was in Minneapolis and it had some great features like an observation deck and a bar on the top floors with some great vibes and views. https://www.marriott.com/en-us/hotels/mspwh-w-minneapolis-the-foshay/dining/ Edited February 9, 20223 yr by ragarcia
February 9, 20223 yr Wonder if bringing back the Top of the Town in some new incarnation might be on the table.
February 9, 20223 yr 1 minute ago, CleveFan said: Wonder if bringing back the Top of the Town in some new incarnation might be on the table. yes it is
February 9, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, Htsguy said: yes it is Great news, Cleveland needs more rooftop/highrise bars. Love me some sunsets from Bar32!
February 9, 20223 yr 2 hours ago, GISguy said: Great news, Cleveland needs more rooftop/highrise bars. Love me some sunsets from Bar32! Just a caveat before you get too excited and make reservations...it is a Kassouff promising this. Edited February 10, 20223 yr by Htsguy
February 10, 20223 yr While I really wish this project would happen it sounds like most people on this board don’t have much faith in the Kassoufs. It would do wonders for this part of town. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see… if this was totally a pie in the sky proposal I wonder how they got Marriott to go along with this?
February 10, 20223 yr 21 minutes ago, dave2017 said: Does Marriott have any plans to incorporate The Galleria into it's plans? According to Michelle, Kassouf envisions turning the Galleria into a "life style center" with emphasis on retail, food and entertainment and according to their TMUD application that could start in 2023.
February 10, 20223 yr 26 minutes ago, Htsguy said: According to Michelle, Kassouf envisions turning the Galleria into a "life style center" with emphasis on retail, food and entertainment and according to their TMUD application that could start in 2023. That's interesting. I wonder if Marriot could influence that. I am sure they have a ton of retail partners. It would only add more amenities to the project. I know this probably depends on the tmud but I feel better about that with a name like Marriot involved.
February 10, 20223 yr 17 hours ago, West153 said: Awesome! So the entire tower will be operated by Marriott? According to Michelle Jarboe's article: The 210-room hotel will be the first W in Ohio and will include a full-service spa, a gym and a 15,000-square-foot ballroom and event center. The reimagined tower also will include a restaurant, in the onetime Top of the Town space on the 38th floor; additional parking, in the basement; and 300,000 square feet of offices, including a co-working facility managed by an unidentified national operator. I do HOPE that this project is successful especially IF they can get the 10% TMUD Credits... . Edited February 10, 20223 yr by Larry1962 More details
February 10, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, Larry1962 said: IF they can get the 10% TMUD Credits... Makes me wonder if the announcement was strategically timed to help boost the project's case for TMUD?
February 10, 20223 yr Without having any inside knowledge l'm going out on a limb here and predict this project doesn't get the TMUD credits. It's up against a lot of competition around the state and l think there are more compelling projects. I know Cleveland has several horses in the race but if it came to it l would forgo all of them if it meant the Cenntanial got the credits. Bringing that massive building in the heart of downtown back to life is an economic multiplier. It would signal to others that investing in downtown is a safe bet. Come on down!
February 10, 20223 yr 21 minutes ago, cadmen said: Without having any inside knowledge l'm going out on a limb here and predict this project doesn't get the TMUD credits. It's up against a lot of competition around the state and l think there are more compelling projects. I know Cleveland has several horses in the race but if it came to it l would forgo all of them if it meant the Cenntanial got the credits. Bringing that massive building in the heart of downtown back to life is an economic multiplier. It would signal to others that investing in downtown is a safe bet. Come on down! The biggest categories are 1. tax collection 2. job creation 3. financial commitments out of the 9 proposed in cleveland i would guess that cross country mortgage is the best fit for this scoring chart, and mixed use developments will float up higher than just apartments. I think they have a decent chance if they did a nice job promoting the galleria as a potential spin off project that would eventually include more retail/restaurants and detailing how much cash they have on hand.
February 10, 20223 yr 3 hours ago, cadmen said: Without having any inside knowledge l'm going out on a limb here and predict this project doesn't get the TMUD credits. It's up against a lot of competition around the state and l think there are more compelling projects. I know Cleveland has several horses in the race but if it came to it l would forgo all of them if it meant the Cenntanial got the credits. Bringing that massive building in the heart of downtown back to life is an economic multiplier. It would signal to others that investing in downtown is a safe bet. Come on down! I TOTALLY AGREE that the most important project is the Centennial project! But I do think that IF the Kassoffs actually invest a reasonable amount of their own equity into the project. (Unlike reported 1% equity stake that Stark had in the proposed NUCLEUS Project) And with the $ 5 Million? Ohio Historical Tax Credit and hopefully the $ 9 Million Ohio TMUD Tax Credits plus the usual construction loans that will demonstrate a solid financial base for this mix use project. And considering that this project does include apartments, hotel, office, retail, restaurants, entertainment, meeting rooms and parking. And the many jobs that it will create and the various increased taxes. And that it's also on a main RTA Bus line making it easier for future employees to get to work. And who knows MAYBE some of them will live in the Centennial Building with its 900+ workforce apartments and they will be able to walk or bike to work during the nicer parts of the year! Edited February 10, 20223 yr by Larry1962 Typos
February 11, 20223 yr https://www.cleveland.com/realestate-news/2022/02/marriotts-w-apartments-branding-destined-for-erieview-tower-in-downtown-cleveland.html
February 11, 20223 yr @KJP need you to write an article on this because I am not subscribed to Crains or CLE.com!
February 11, 20223 yr 24 minutes ago, YO to the CLE said: @KJP need you to write an article on this because I am not subscribed to Crains or CLE.com! Unfortunately I don't have sources at Kassouf and neither he or his son have ever returned my calls/e-mails and I can't just copy what the others have written. I need at least some original source material. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 11, 20223 yr very skeptical with kassoufs leading this, but i guess lets try to remain hopeful we see real investment and action here.
February 11, 20223 yr Well... there is also this now. Maybe some validity for this project? I just don't know. "Shared-workspace provider Industrious inks deal for downtown Cleveland location Industrious, a fast-growing operator of flexible office spaces, plans to set up shop in downtown Cleveland this year. The New York-based company has formed a partnership with the Kassouf family, the owners of the Tower at Erieview, to open a nearly 20,000-square-foot operation in the building. The space, a full floor of the tower, will house a mix of private offices and shared amenities." https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/shared-workspace-provider-industrious-inks-deal-downtown-cleveland-location
February 11, 20223 yr So that's another deal the Kassouf family has pulled off with this planned overhaul. First Marriott and now a New York based company. Years ago I vaguely remember reading something about James Kassouf bringing his adult children on board and they planned on branching out from the parking business. They were a couple of announcements that fizzled awhile back but if they pull this off maybe we should chalk it up to the second generation because l don't think James ever built anything larger than a shed to keep the parking attendant out of the rain.
February 12, 20223 yr 23 hours ago, YO to the CLE said: @KJP need you to write an article on this because I am not subscribed to Crains or CLE.com! There is no subscriber restriction.
December 7, 20222 yr 34 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said: TMUD winner. you gotta be kidding me. how did that happen? these people cant come through and deliver. not only is it over their head they wont do it. ugh.
December 7, 20222 yr 4 minutes ago, mrnyc said: you gotta be kidding me. how did that happen? these people cant come through and deliver. not only is it over their head they wont do it. ugh. I’m gonna remain optimistic. Maybe they’ll package a sale to someone who will do it. The northeast corner of downtown will be coming to life. •Erieview Tower/W Hotel •45 Erieview reno. 370 apartments •Avenue District continued buildout •Cross Country mortgage HQ and residential conversions. •Cleveland Police HQ to ArtCraft •Superior midway project •Cleveland State potential expansion. New dorms/Arena/expanded Soccer stadium Probably missing a bunch.
December 7, 20222 yr On 2/11/2022 at 8:51 AM, YO to the CLE said: @KJP need you to write an article on this because I am not subscribed to Crains or CLE.com! Use your library card for crains!
December 7, 20222 yr Does anyone know what the Galleria portion renovation will include. https://www.wkyc.com/article/money/economy/ohio-gov-mike-dewine-millions-tax-credits-capital-projects-4-cleveland-canton-areas/95-d48e30b5-4ec8-446b-9315-2e233170efb0
December 7, 20222 yr Michelle's article in Crain's recapping the Northeast Ohio TMUD awards was slightly positive when describing the Erieview project. Actually, it might be better to say she was "neutral" in reporting about it, as her article was very fact based, offering no opinions regarding the Kassouf's ability to pull this off. The article claims they are ready to begin construction in the first quarter of 2023. However, the article then goes on to report they are still looking to double a previously awarded historic tax credit (from 5 mil to 10 mil) and they are currently in discussions with the city for other public incentives. I imagine they also have plans to sit on Santa's lap soon and, if construction does not begin in the first quarter of 2023 as report, (who actually thinks that is going to happen?) sit down and negotiate with the Easter Bunny. There is clearly a lot of skepticism on the forum (in this and other threads discussing the award) and probably well deserved. Years of big talk with very little accomplished. Obviously this is not something the tax authority considers when making an award. Maybe it should be. Edited December 7, 20222 yr by Htsguy
December 7, 20222 yr Four NE Ohio projects win TMUD credits By Ken Prendergast / December 7, 2022 In the first round of Ohio’s Transformational Mixed Use Development (TMUD) tax credit program, more than half of the major-city credits went to Cleveland. Today, more than half of those credits went to just two projects in Columbus. That left enough TMUD credits to benefit two projects in Cleveland — the Erieview redevelopment in downtown Cleveland and the Circle Square megaproject in University Circle. Unfortunately, that also meant that several other projects in Cleveland and Cuyahoga County were left out. MORE https://neo-trans.blog/2022/12/07/four-ne-ohio-projects-win-tmud-credits/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 7, 20222 yr There should be a clause that states, “If a project hasn’t started construction in X number of years, TMUD funding will be revoked.”Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
December 7, 20222 yr 5 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said: There should be a clause that states, “If a project hasn’t started construction in X number of years, TMUD funding will be revoked.” Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk The TMUD law requires applicants to show the project has been completed (ie: a certificate of occupancy from the city) for all credits to be received. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 8, 20222 yr It's one thing to have to show a certificate of occupancy to ultimately receive the TMUD credit but that requirement does nothing to penalize a developer who receives the credit and then sits on it because he doesn't have ALL the funds necessary to build. Htsguy is right. If Kassouf doesn't develop Erieview a better developer misses out. Actually being able to develop should be part of the criteria for receiving the TMUD credit.
December 8, 20222 yr I thought the TMUDs were for projects that were basically "shovel ready" and just needed to close the funding gap to get things started.
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