24 minutes ago, dave2017 said:

My issue has always been that The Galleria has felt disjointed to The Erieview Tower. The rendering helps to blend the two together. 

 

57 minutes ago, KJP said:

Not sure if i'm going to be able to write an article about this anytime soon since I'm out of country. But you all might be interested in these graphics...

 

 

Where's the YMCA going if it's becoming parking?

Maybe purple is the underground parking.

The proposed top two floors for residential and restaurants are currently being used for mechanical floors.  Are these going to be relocated to lower floors?  Are they going to build a couple of new floors on the top of the tower increasing the height?

2 hours ago, KJP said:

Not sure if i'm going to be able to write an article about this anytime soon since I'm out of country. But you all might be interested in these graphics...

 

Fire up the ChatPGT bot and direct it to search Ken's email inbox. Le voilà!   

 

Safe travels, @KJP! 

Is there enough space for a Dave and Busters or some sort of similar attraction here? I think with such a large mix of uses and in such a dead but vital corridor in the city, a Dave and Busters, an attraction that draws families, friends, adults and kids would boom here. Access wouldn't be an issue, and if it could be accessed from the street level that's even better.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

10 hours ago, DO_Summers said:

Fire up the ChatPGT bot and direct it to search Ken's email inbox. Le voilà!   

 

Safe travels, @KJP! 

 

So I wrote this article last night until 2:30 am in Barcelona and another article this morning after I woke up at 8-something. I'll post the second article in the afternoon (Cleveland time). Back to strolling around the Gothic city...

 

 

Erieview, Galleria redo: steps forward, back

By Ken Prendergast / August 4, 2023

 

A $193 million redevelopment of half-empty Erieview Tower and its associated and similarly vacated Galleria shopping mall, 1301 E. 9th St.,  is the first big project to request a scaled-down tax abatement from the city under Mayor Justin Bibb’s new abatement policy. That policy reduces the amount of tax abatement for new construction or renovation in stable, wealthier neighborhoods in Cleveland, including downtown.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2023/08/04/erieview-galleria-steps-forward-back/

I like all the images of UO members shopping for World Class Signage. Very realistic.

I guess I'm OK with the redesigned entrance. It would be nice to see a rendering of the St. Clair side with the new parking area.

^My gut says that Design Review and Planning Commission are going to have many questions regarding this parking plan.  At this point I too would like to see more details.

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/cleveland-eyes-commercial-tax-abatement-erieview-tower

 

Michelle Jarboe's article has a differing architectural firm credited as Beyer Blinder Belle. I am impressed by their website and projects they have tackled. They have definitely married The Galleria better with The Erieview Tower

 

I would also love if they could incorporate the original plaza pavement design into the renovations. I remember it fondly as a distinct element

Edited August 4, 20231 yr by dave2017

BBB is the architect for the hotel portion and the Galleria. Berardi waa listed as the architect of record in the presentation. But I should differentiate that in my article. 

The Gothic quarter is the coolest part of Barcelona other than Sagrada Familia. My favorite city in Europe.

6 hours ago, KJP said:

 

So I wrote this article last night until 2:30 am in Barcelona and another article this morning after I woke up at 8-something. I'll post the second article in the afternoon (Cleveland time). Back to strolling around the Gothic city...

 

 

Erieview, Galleria redo: steps forward, back

By Ken Prendergast / August 4, 2023

 

A $193 million redevelopment of half-empty Erieview Tower and its associated and similarly vacated Galleria shopping mall, 1301 E. 9th St.,  is the first big project to request a scaled-down tax abatement from the city under Mayor Justin Bibb’s new abatement policy. That policy reduces the amount of tax abatement for new construction or renovation in stable, wealthier neighborhoods in Cleveland, including downtown.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2023/08/04/erieview-galleria-steps-forward-back/

“More than 500 parking spaces will be provided, including existing spaces below the Galleria and by converting the first floor of the Galleria along St. Clair Avenue into indoor parking, plans show.”

 

WTF? First floor parking lining a major avenue downtown? Absolutely not!

 

^ That doesn't make any sense. Whatever they're proposing HAS to look different that what that sentence says. But if anyone knows parking it has to be Kassouf. Yikes!

None of the interior renderings show parking on the first floor.  Also, doesn't The Y occupy frontage along St Clair?

1 hour ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

“WTF? First floor parking lining a major avenue downtown? Absolutely not!

There is already parking underground.  And there is a parking garage across the street.  Good grief!  Hopefully one of the design review committees can put the kibosh on that idea.

 

Edited August 4, 20231 yr by LibertyBlvd

The tax abatement plan adjustment was approved with City Planning Commission this morning

if anybody can handle renos and redevelopments of major older structures, bbb can. they do all kinds of this work, so its good they are involved. they are one of the best for this.

 

bbb would shake the kassoufs off the weird first floor galleria parking idea, if that wasnt some kind of erroneous thing (kassoufs so who knows, lol?), or try to.

 

more:

https://www.beyerblinderbelle.com/projects/sectors/commercial#ss3

I like the timing of this project, as taking a good portion of empty commercial space from Cleveland's 4th (soon to be 5th) largest office tower in this CRE market will help cushion the blow of any whatever exodus of office workers from downtown Cleveland we have had post-COVID.  Do we have any idea of how much office space will remain in the tower once the hotel rooms and residences are accounted for?

@Down_with_Ctown 300,000 square feet of offices

On 8/11/2023 at 11:40 AM, KJP said:

@Down_with_Ctown 300,000 square feet of offices

 

Thanks!  That's a little more inventory than you'd probably like in the current CRE market.  But taking more than half of the office space from the city's 5th tallest tower offline will make a dent regardless.  

 

Also good to see us opening up our first (IIRC) major downtown hotel in the post-COVID era.  By all accounts, the tourist market has more or less fully recovered.  I think the "W" brand will do just fine here as it's new-to-Cleveland and fills a niche amongst our existing brands.  Location may be an issue, as the Nine/Twelve District has been pretty dormant for awhile now, and the action is obviously on the other side of Public Square with the SW tower.  But our downtown is still relatively small to the point where it's really just one CBD from East 12th to West 9th.  I think the W brand will do just fine, especially if/when the land bridge connects the east side of downtown to North Coast Harbor.

The requested tax abatement passed today in council committee.  The project received a generally positive response and it was clear that Blaine Griffin has been lobbied behind the scenes for a while.  

 

Project reps were up front with the committee that they will be back shortly to request a TIF and that the granting of one was the only way the project moves forward.

 

Interesting that while the Kassouff name was thrown around, not one family member was at the table.  Probably because they were embarrassed by their companies resume which was placed on a screen during the presentation.  Decades of property ownership/development and only three small projects to their name, despite their constant chest pounding.  The biggest was probably the FBI building.  They should just face it, they are a parking lot company.

Some more info on tax abatement.  Not sure what a long baron building is.  Maybe that is supposed to be barren?

 

https://www.cleveland.com/realestate-news/2023/08/downtown-clevelands-erieview-tower-redevelopment-approved-for-tax-abatement.html

16 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

Some more info on tax abatement.  Not sure what a long baron building is.  Maybe that is supposed to be barren?

 

https://www.cleveland.com/realestate-news/2023/08/downtown-clevelands-erieview-tower-redevelopment-approved-for-tax-abatement.html

i believe it is the long pork of the nobility.

My thing about the 500 indoor parking spaces is this. When that building was built I’m sure they built a garage underground that could hold the capacity of a full 40 story tower (in the 1970s when the Downtown Cleveland and Cleveland population was much higher). So why do they need 500 MORE parking spaces? That seems like extreme overkill.

Also does the recently passed TDM only affect new builds or do redevelopments fall up under that as well?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Erieview Tower was built with 435 underground spaces. That was a big deal when downtown buildings were previously built without any parking. In the early 1960s, almost everyone lived either in Cleveland or an inner-ring suburb -- close enough that they could take transit to work or park in the Muny Lot and catch the Loop bus.

The Erieview Tower was built with 435 underground spaces. That was a big deal when downtown buildings were previously built without any parking. In the early 1960s, almost everyone lived either in Cleveland or an inner-ring suburb -- close enough that they could take transit to work or park in the Muny Lot and catch the Loop bus.

Ahhh thanks for the explanation. I do feel that 935 parking spaces is extreme overkill, especially with so many lots nearby. I feel they could partner with nearby lots for the office workers in the building to allow those underground spaces to be for the W Hotel and apartments.

When I worked in Key Tower we could park in its underground lot or other nearby lots. I ended up parking in the Lincoln Building and walked down (thought about catching the redline but the cost was equal to my monthly parking pass cost), I would imagine they could do the same here.

I’m sure there are garages empty enough to satisfy the needs of office workers nearby, especially Post-Pandemic life.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

5 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Ahhh thanks for the explanation. I do feel that 935 parking spaces is extreme overkill, especially with so many lots nearby. I feel they could partner with nearby lots for the office workers in the building to allow those underground spaces to be for the W Hotel and apartments.

When I worked in Key Tower we could park in its underground lot or other nearby lots. I ended up parking in the Lincoln Building and walked down (thought about catching the redline but the cost was equal to my monthly parking pass cost), I would imagine they could do the same here.

I’m sure there are garages empty enough to satisfy the needs of office workers nearby, especially Post-Pandemic life.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I work in Erieview and a lot of employees already park nearby due to cost of Galleria lot.

4 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Also does the recently passed TDM only affect new builds or do redevelopments fall up under that as well?

 

I know it's not an answer, but just fwiw, the legislation won't take effect for six months.

Surprised that the development team has not been before any council committees for the TIF now that city council is back in session.  They made it clear when they won the tax abatement back in mid August that a TIF would be needed to complete the gap in financing and I thought they said they wanted to start work before the end of the year.

I work in this building and all I can see are some lightbulbs have been put in and they are repairing the Galleria posts at a snails pace on outside.

Erieview TIF is on Planning Commission's agenda this week.

I heard a rumor that the development team is planning on tearing down the Tower and constructing a 5 over 1 as it will be more economical, especially if they can secure an off the shelf Geis design.😉

Edited October 2, 20231 yr by Htsguy

7 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

I heard a rumor that the development team is planning on tearing down the Tower and construction a 5 over 1 as it will be more economical, especially if they can secure an off the shelf Geis design.😉

Can you elaborate. You got some grammar issues in your statement

4 minutes ago, simplythis said:

Can you elaborate. You got some grammar issues in your statement

Fixed it

The gang was finally before Council Planning and Development committee today in regards to the TIF they are seeking (again minus any Kassouff family member which I still find strange).  This was the first step in the TIF process regarding the chain of title.  It passed this committee and will go to Finance next Monday and then the full council Monday night for passage.  They then have to come back to both committees and then the full council in the future for the actual TIF.  Again it is a two step process but things are moving forward.

 

The most interesting thing that came out of the hearing was bad news/ good news regarding the financing.  Apparently the primary lender, Huntington, reduced the amount they were willing to loan (at least under the previous negotiated terms) by 30 million.  However, the presenter indicated they were able to fix this negative with some sort of fancy maneuvering  which would take me two days to research and understand, if then.  He said the capital stack was still moving forward in a positive direction with the TIF being a vital component.  They are still negotiation with the city the terms of the Community Benefit Agreement so that still has to be completed as well.  They are doing design work but no word as to when this might break ground.  I imagine it will not be until next year.

So no big updates, but there have been some smaller things happening as I work in the building. The bookstore was refreshed I guess and will be reopening. Also, two new lunch spots are opening in the next 2 months. Small changes but nice to see some spots filling it so maybe there is some longer-term movement here,

2 hours ago, WindyBuckeye said:

So no big updates, but there have been some smaller things happening as I work in the building. The bookstore was refreshed I guess and will be reopening. Also, two new lunch spots are opening in the next 2 months. Small changes but nice to see some spots filling it so maybe there is some longer-term movement here,

There’s a bookstore in there? What kind of books?

Confession time: I’ve lived downtown for almost 9 years and apart from to access the then Winking Lizard and the Y, I’ve never set foot in the Galleria. 

38 minutes ago, roman totale XVII said:

There’s a bookstore in there? What kind of books?

Confession time: I’ve lived downtown for almost 9 years and apart from to access the then Winking Lizard and the Y, I’ve never set foot in the Galleria. 

Looks like a simple bookstore that will have a cafe in it as well. It is next to a Hungarian museum.

The Erieview Tower under construction, 1963 or 64.  A co-worker's friend found these photos when they were cleaning out their parents' house.  I'm old enough to remember when Cleveland's "second skyscraper" was being built.  (Forgive the reflections from the frame glass.) 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Quilliam said:

 

 

Wow! Thanks for sharing  @Quilliam.  Great find by your co-worker's friend. 

 

PS: I see Huletts! 

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 20241 yr by DO_Summers

Went ice skating on the plaza, must have been winter 64-65.

13 hours ago, DO_Summers said:

 

Look at all that parking below

Surprised/concerned that the development group has not been back before city council to finalize the TIF they need to close financing.  It was way back in mid October 2023 that they were before council and secured passage of step one of the TIF-title transfer-and they indicated at that time that the TIF was absolutely necessary to get this project moving forward (council had already awarded a tax abatement).

 

I figured at the time they would not be back before council until the new year with the holidays coming up and everything, but we are now going into April 2024 and it has been crickets.  Early in the year the Planning and Development committee had a heavy agenda with other issues, but since then there have been a couple of weekly meetings with light agendas so I am guessing that is not the problem.  In October the developer group indicated that they were having issues with their Huntington loan but that they had a plan to move around that.  Maybe that optimism was short sighted.  Don't know, but the lack of movement on finalizing the TIF seems strange.

 

With Rockefeller and Centennial encountering major roadblocks (or so it seems) I hope we are not going to have to add Erieview to the list.

Edited March 23, 20241 yr by Htsguy

As sure as we can expect Geis to design the most boring and cheapest building possible so can we expect Kassouf NOT to build anything at all.

I am still wondering if it might be the case that this project is in serious trouble.  Again there has been no news in ages and no signs of movement.  They have their TMUD (granted ages ago) and a city tax abatement (again this legislation passed almost 10 months ago).  The city also passed step one legislation regarding an absolutely necessary TIF last October.  I figured they would before council to finalize the TIF at the beginning of the year, but the development team has not moved an inch forward in this regard.  Now council is going into summer recess with only two meetings planned until September.  Historical these two meetings have dealt with emergency stuff and I don't believe there are any Planning and Development committee meetings scheduled until September in any event.  The development team did indicate while before Planning and Development last October that their loan with Huntington Bank had been scaled back, but they seemed confident they could work through that. 

 

 If anybody has some inside information indicating things are still on track, please spill the beans.

It's Kassouf. His track record of developing stuff obviously isn't very good. While many of us don't like the Georges, at least they usually build what they say they're going to build.

1 hour ago, KJP said:

It's Kassouf. His track record of developing stuff obviously isn't very good. While many of us don't like the Georges, at least they usually build what they say they're going to build.

So true and unfortunately for the city this time it is not his usual baby stuff.  This is one of Cleveland's prime buildings he some how got his hands on and his failure as a developer will be felt more deeply.

I work in the building. It is a dump.

23 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said:

I work in the building. It is a dump.

I worked there in the late 80s and early 90s when the Jacobs owned it.   My firm moved in just as the Galleria was opening.  They had also just completed many improvements to the actual tower in conjunction with the opening of the mall.  It was wonderful then.  Well maintained and bustling.