April 10, 20205 yr Author I'm digging "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 10, 20205 yr 9 minutes ago, freefourur said: I'm not sure what this means but the signs have apparently been removed. Might have just been the excessive wind the past day or two?
April 10, 20205 yr I thought I read up-thread that Carnegie had some problems with the financing and that the project may be delayed or worse.
April 10, 20205 yr 9 minutes ago, cadmen said: I thought I read up-thread that Carnegie had some problems with the financing and that the project may be delayed or worse. They still had a gap in their stack which is not necessarily uncommon for deals this size.
April 10, 20205 yr Well IF it is delayed that may be why the sign is gone...or maybe it's just the wind lol.
April 16, 20205 yr Author Another NEOtrans bomb about to drop...... BOOM! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 16, 20205 yr Author 1 minute ago, WindyBuckeye said: Bourbon has been poured.... An appropriate drink "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 16, 20205 yr Author Imbibe... THURSDAY, APRIL 16, 2020 Carnegie exits One Lakewood Place, new developer sought Lakewood Mayor Meghan George will reportedly announce tomorrow that Carnegie Management and Development Corp. is withdrawing as the city's chosen developer of the $72 million One Lakewood Place project, according to two sources. The divorce is due to irreconcilable differences over who should pay what share of unexpected site clean-up costs that were discovered late in into the inspection, clean-up and demolition of the 5.6-acre site at Detroit and Belle avenues in downtown Lakewood. MORE: https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/04/carnegie-leaves-one-lakewood-place.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 16, 20205 yr Ugh, hope Lakewood can get a experienced developer with these types of projects. I'm done with Carnegie.
April 16, 20205 yr 2 minutes ago, Htsguy said: How does this not result in some sort of lawsuit? It definitely should. Carnegie has some explaining to do and seems to be trying to push the city around because their lack of experience with this types of projects ended up costing them.
April 16, 20205 yr I was afraid that this was coming. I do wonder if Sylvester's departure was related to this project falling apart. Mayor George has been against this project and is allied with the save the hospital crowd. This will likely be a vacant lot for a while now.
April 17, 20205 yr Author April 17, 2020 12:50 PM UPDATED 36 MINUTES AGO Big Lakewood project hits the rocks Carnegie Management & Development Co.'s proposed $170 million project One Lakewood Place, on the former Lakewood Hospital site near the big western suburb's downtown, is in trouble. The Westlake-based developer and the City of Lakewood are on the verge of parting ways on the retail, office and apartment development the two had hammered out over the last three years. Like any pending divorce, the two sides are engaged in a blame game. MORE: https://www.crainscleveland.com/government/big-lakewood-project-hits-rocks "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 17, 20205 yr Author 5 minutes ago, freefourur said: Ken scoops Crain's once again. Yeah, but Crain's got people to return phone calls. The headline and opening paragraphs make it sound like Carnegie still has a chance to finish the project. But my information as well as Bullard's last quote from Khouri clearly says that Carnegie is done here and wants to rub the mayor's nose in it. Khouri said, "They're going to have that hole in the center of town a long time." Edited April 17, 20205 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 17, 20205 yr ^ I haven't been able to read it due to the paywall. Maybe it's time for a subscription.
April 17, 20205 yr 20 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said: Carnegie seems like a really respectable company...not Carnegie sounds like a group of amateurs that got in way over their head. If one is to "place blame," I'd bet its more probable that a greenfield developer with no experience in urban redevelopment botched the basics as opposed to a City Administration whose primary focus is urban redevelopment. What a bunch of clowns. On the details though, is anyone familiar with the structure of the agreement they had with the City? Was the developer's purported contribution based on a lump sum estimate of the clean up? Percent share of the total or other? And what kind of conditions would they have been held to in the contract with the City to ensure that they followed through? Since the devil is in the details, curious to know what those details would typically be in this case. I'd be shocked if Carnegie didn't expose themselves to some type of legal action, and would like to know why / why not. I can only imagine that there are insurance products or other type of contingencies (e.g. surety) to make sure that unforeseen cost overruns are addressed in a cleanup scenario. Are those typical in urban redevelopment? Edited April 17, 20205 yr by ASP1984
April 17, 20205 yr 39 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said: Carnegie seems like a really respectable company...not In the distant past I had a number of dealings with the head of the company and the family is "good people". My take is similar to many that they were way over their heads given their past development projects. I am curious whether they have the resources or ability/expertise to follow through on that Ohio City project KJP keeps talking about.
April 17, 20205 yr 4 minutes ago, Htsguy said: In the distant past I had a number of dealings with the head of the company and the family is "good people". My take is similar to many that they were way over their heads given their past development projects. I am curious whether they have the resources or ability/expertise to follow through on that Ohio City project KJP keeps talking about. Yeah that makes the most sense, but I don't get the quote in Crain's. Seems unprofessional.
April 17, 20205 yr Author It sounds like they're some blame to go around on both sides. However I wouldn't lose too much sleep over this. I was reminded today that complicated redevelopment deals like this for cities often go through two or three developers before they find someone communicative enough to get through such a complicated and difficult process. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 17, 20205 yr ^ let's just hope that Mayor George is receptive to those proposals and doesn't cave to the hospital truthers.
April 17, 20205 yr ^I am new to Lakewood and do not understand the details of the hospital dispute, but at this point, whether someone was pro Lakewood hospital closure or against it, the place is demolished and there is no chance of another hospital coming here, so my question is, who would she be caving to?
April 17, 20205 yr 25 minutes ago, KJP said: It sounds like they're some blame to go around on both sides. However I wouldn't lose too much sleep over this. I was reminded today that complicated redevelopment deals like this for cities often go through two or three developers before they find someone communicative enough to get through such a complicated and difficult process. Good communication, good faith engagement, and transparency is key to everything. I'm continually blown away by developers that don't understand this.
April 17, 20205 yr I've been wondering, considering this was a deal between the city and Carnegie, who owns the existing plans? Are they something a future developer could come in and use? Or is this something like intellectual property of Carnegie? I'm sure a new developer would like to come up with something that can have their name on it, but if a new developer could re-use these plans, that would surely reduce the cost quite a bit and probably make things easier given potential environmental surprises.
April 17, 20205 yr Author 33 minutes ago, PoshSteve said: I've been wondering, considering this was a deal between the city and Carnegie, who owns the existing plans? Are they something a future developer could come in and use? Or is this something like intellectual property of Carnegie? I'm sure a new developer would like to come up with something that can have their name on it, but if a new developer could re-use these plans, that would surely reduce the cost quite a bit and probably make things easier given potential environmental surprises. Each prospective developer had submitted their own plans/proposals back in 2017. They're still online if you look for them. Carnegie had a pretty good plan and, unlike the others, wasn't asking for any subsidies. Then they asked the city for $500,000 to defray some of its costs. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 17, 20205 yr Statement by Mayor George: http://www.onelakewood.com/mayor-meghan-f-george-statement-on-one-lakewood-place/?fbclid=IwAR2fuU2TzSow11Y1fsLzHdkEg5qhoXv9ha45phYw2ysfee7JgSoffWzmWpA
April 17, 20205 yr As long as the remediation issues have been resolved, a large, cleared site in downtown Lakewood will have developers lined out the door.
April 17, 20205 yr ^ as long as the mayor is willing to hear out the developers that come forward. There's a very vocal NIMBY community who is part of her base of voters.
April 17, 20205 yr 14 minutes ago, freefourur said: ^ as long as the mayor is willing to hear out the developers that come forward. There's a very vocal NIMBY community who is part of her base of voters. I hope she doesn't take the path of least resistance and throw up a strip mall and 5 townhomes. That site is ripe for something mixed use just like the new one at 25th/Lorain.
April 17, 20205 yr Kind of funny that the project is still prominently featured on Carnegie’s website. I’d think they’d have taken that down right away.
April 17, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, freefourur said: ^ as long as the mayor is willing to hear out the developers that come forward. There's a very vocal NIMBY community who is part of her base of voters. Agreed. The city lost a ton of jobs when the hospital closed. It's in their interest to build something dense here. Hopefully the mayor sees it that way.
April 17, 20205 yr Cleveland.com's first coverage without the venerable Michelle Jarboe: https://www.cleveland.com/news/2020/04/one-lakewood-place-development-of-former-lakewood-hospital-site-in-jeopardy-as-city-developer-spar.html
April 18, 20205 yr Hopefully Harbor Bay or Zimmerman or Snavely take a look at this now. Those guys get things done.
April 20, 20205 yr Author "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 20, 20205 yr I'm sad that this has fallen through and I'm afraid we will get a dumbed down development proposal in its place.
April 20, 20205 yr Author MONDAY, APRIL 20, 2020 Lakewood weighs Plan B for hospital redevelopment Starting today, the City of Lakewood will begin the process of salvaging the redevelopment of the city-owned Lakewood Hospital site. That redevelopment was left in limbo when Mayor Meghan George last week announced that the city and its first-choice developer had reached an irreconcilable impasse over the site clean-up costs. Carnegie Management and Development Corp. had terminated its agreement with the city. City Council members will meet virtually today, forced by the COVID-19 crisis and governor's social distancing order, starting with a Finance Committee meeting at 5:30 p.m. That will be followed by a Health & Human Services Committee and then the regular meeting of City Council at 7:30 p.m. MORE: https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/04/lakewood-weighs-plan-b-for-hospital.html Edited April 20, 20205 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 20, 20205 yr That's a hell of a downgrade. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
April 20, 20205 yr Casto's submission is online here - http://www.onelakewood.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/CASTO_NPR_RFP-2017-Final_public.pdf
April 20, 20205 yr Carnegie's here - http://www.onelakewood.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/One-Lakewood-Place-Carnegie-Management-and-Development-07.05.2017.pdf
April 20, 20205 yr Author 41 minutes ago, ColDayMan said: That's a hell of a downgrade. CASTO's trades more housing for less offices and retail. Not including parking, CASTO's has 503,000 SF of development whereas Carnegie's had 624,000. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 21, 20205 yr FWIW here again was Carnegie's updated design: http://www.onelakewood.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Summary-Pages-from-One-Lakewood-Place-ABR-Meeting-April-23-2019.pdf I happen to like Casto's main building proposal a lot better, but Carnegie's residential component, mall and incorporation of the Curtis Block building were much much better than Casto's. Casto's design also doesn't seem to really embrace Detroit Ave, which I think is a big mistake. Anyhow, who really knows what's going to happen at this point. It's a bit concerning, but what can ya do. Edited April 21, 20205 yr by surfohio
January 23, 20214 yr Author "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 11, 20223 yr Author Time to rename this thread. It's not "One Lakewood Place" anymore. There's a new kid in town.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 11, 20223 yr I am so excited for this project! It is a block (long block) away from my house, and that pit in the ground is such an eyesore. Catso does quality stuff. VEry excited to see what they offer up
March 11, 20223 yr 7 minutes ago, YO to the CLE said: I am so excited for this project! It is a block (long block) away from my house, and that pit in the ground is such an eyesore. Catso does quality stuff. VEry excited to see what they offer up The Pit has its own Facebook page too...
March 11, 20223 yr I've been looking forward to getting that Pit filled in ever since Andy Dwyer fell in and broke both his legs. Any Parks and Rec fans out there?
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