As a general rule, sidewalks in Cleveland suck....

 

Residents fed up with dangerous deformed sidewalk, say it feels as though they live in 'lost zone'

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/residents-fed-up-with-dangerous-deformed-sidewalk-say-it-feels-as-though-they-live-in-lost-zone

That's pretty terrible disrepair there, but I hope their solution isn't completely removing that tree.

There's a few unwalkable (and thus, not ADA accessible) sidewalks along the streets a few blocks inside Cleveland, just east of my home. It's a stark contrast to the well-maintained sidewalks here in Lakewood, where protruding corners are grinded down and cracked shale sidewalks are replaced.

 

I regularly take walks around my neighborhood so I'm tempted to do a photo comparison of Lakewood vs Cleveland.

At least it seems like they're repairing some of them. The various stretches of Detroit that are under construction right now. Also W 69th Street north of Detroit, of which the upper half was one of the worst sections of road and sidewalk in the city. Work on the portion from Herman to Father Caruso is underway, and the portion from Detroit to Herman will be done in the spring.

My personal favorite is when the City of Cleveland goes in and installs ADA ramps at crossing--but the sidewalks just beyond them are non-navigable by a wheelchair!  It's no wonder you see so many folks riding their wheelchairs in the streets.

How about some illumination along the sidewalks??

 

@downtownercast

Boulevard of Broken Streetlights... On Prospect Ave. between Superior and Ontario, there are 29 streetlights. Only 13 of them are working. What’s up with that?

 

They seem to be doing a lot of work along that stretch of Prospect.  It might have something to do with that.

That's pretty terrible disrepair there, but I hope their solution isn't completely removing that tree.

 

This is classic urbanohio... there is no solution that doesn't conflict with the "keep things the way they are" crowd

That's pretty terrible disrepair there, but I hope their solution isn't completely removing that tree.

 

This is classic urbanohio... there is no solution that doesn't conflict with the "keep things the way they are" crowd

 

How is not wanting to lose a mature street tree, a valuable asset in urban areas, a sign of wanting to "keep things the way they are?" That statement is baffling to me.

 

You can rebuild sidewalks to deal with decades of root growth. It happens all over the planet. It's not rocket science.

It seems they have to fix the streets before sidewalks. Hopefully taxpayers that are moving downtown and UC will spread outwards to generate Rev. One thing I've always noticed when I was child was how clean Columbus streets were in appearance to Cleveland's and wondered why. Even though I love Cleveland then and now when I made my weekend visits to my Fathers I would make fun at my Brother how Columbus is a sissy clean city while Cleveland was hard core tough city. Never-the-less  I do think a condition of a cities streets and sidewalks makes a lasting impression on a person. A much stronger unconscious impression than I think many realize except for people in here. Back then going into Columbus I would think, wow the freeways blacktop actually look black! At the time I didn't think of Cleveland's rough winters and always having salt on them though. Final thought, what a city's streets look like may be a visitors first and "lasting" impression of how they view a city.

 

 

This is classic urbanohio... there is no solution that doesn't conflict with the "keep things the way they are" crowd

 

This is classic Westlake10. Only 11 posts on Urban Ohio and most of them used to insult long time forum members or scoff at the idea of, you know, urban. Why did you join the forum if you have nothing to offer?

Because Westlake, thanks to Crocker Park, is now the epicenter of urbanity in Northeast Ohio!

 

Back to sidewalks, X is correct about the city doing some work along Prospect. But it is classic Cleveland -- no attention to detail especially when pedestrians are concerned. You can't even walk safely (or move at all if you're disabled). Note the other side of the street as well, which has the sidewalk completely blocked and no temporary pedestrian passageways provided. Is it really this hard, Cleveland??

 

^Personal injury attorneys are probably set up in a nearby building with binoculars.

^Personal injury attorneys are probably set up in a nearby building with binoculars.

 

Oh we don't have any of those in Cleveland...

This is the third time our streets have been swept and cleaned this year alone.  From 2012-2017 it happened exactly one time. I've also noticed that most of our bad sidewalks have been replaced this year as well.  I run/walk my dog ALL over OC and DS daily, so i just wanted you all to know what I'm observing. 

 

The city services are improving due to the tax increase and high income earners moving back to the city.  I hope that many you who complain, yet don't live in the city proper, will move consider moving here to add to the tax base and help improve the city even more.  I do not mean this as dig...I know everyone here voices their opinion because they care and want better. 

Could you tell those service workers to come out to Edgewater sometime soon and fix the sidewalks out here? I work in Cleveland but until the police response time and schools dramatically improve, I cannot live in the city (or afford private schools or subject my son to a religious institution). And because I live only three blocks from Cleveland, a substantial portion of my shopping, dining and, yes walking on sidewalks that look like an earthquake shattered them, is done in Cleveland.

Well it's a chicken and the egg situation.  The schools will not improve if everyone is afraid to send their kids to them.  Same goes for sidewalk and street repair.  The city can only do so much with it's limited resources, so it's going to take time to fix everything in all wards.  More tax paying residents will speed up the process.

BTW my daughter graduated from a CMSD public HS with a 4.0 and is now a frosh at CSU.

Well it's a chicken and the egg situation.  The schools will not improve if everyone is afraid to send their kids to them.  Same goes for sidewalk and street repair.  The city can only do so much with it's limited resources, so it's going to take time to fix everything in all wards.  More tax paying residents will speed up the process.

 

They can also certainly be more efficient with their resources.  I know a couple of people who work for the City and they joke about what a colossal glut of time clock whores work there doing nothing--in every department. 

Well it's a chicken and the egg situation.  The schools will not improve if everyone is afraid to send their kids to them.  Same goes for sidewalk and street repair.  The city can only do so much with it's limited resources, so it's going to take time to fix everything in all wards.  More tax paying residents will speed up the process.

 

They can also certainly be more efficient with their resources.  I know a couple of people who work for the City and they joke about what a colossal glut of time clock whores work there doing nothing--in every department. 

 

Absolutely true as well.  I'm confident if we elect a competent leader things will change inside city hall.  But that takes people living inside of the city limits to care and vote. So yeah, chicken and the egg again.

Chicken/egg doesn't apply. Just as investors fund success and not need, people will live in Cleveland when it provides comparable/competitive services/schools. Where they live will be the biggest investment of their lives.

Chicken/egg doesn't apply. Just as investors fund success and not need, people will live in Cleveland when it provides comparable/competitive services/schools. Where they live will be the biggest investment of their lives.

 

Specifically regarding CMSD, the “chicken and the egg” is the whole reason the Ohio Supreme Court rules school funding unconstitutional what, 20 years ago? Poverty stricken districts with many disadvantaged students have continued since then to poorly perform.

 

But, I suppose Cleveland needs to work with the system we’re stuck with to try and improve in any way they can since Columbus won’t help.

 

But otherwise I completely agree with you, and this is coming from a Cleveland resident.

^^ we'll just have to agree to disagree.  If there weren't a need, there wouldn't be investors. I believe we're both half right..Regardless, my original point was that i've lived in the city for 7 yrs and there's been more improvements made this year than in the prior 6yrs combined.  PM me if you'd like to meet up and see proof of my claims.  I knew I'd take heat for giving the city an ounce of credit...\

 

I also lived in Lakewood for two years.  It's not all roses living there either.  I had to call the cops more there than I have thus far in DS.  To be fair, I did live right next to a bar.

The city does deserve an ounce of credit. Maybe even two. ;) It's improved from a dumpster fire to an average city, with below-average and above-average areas. It is finally able to attract outsiders, especially from other cities who don't yet look so closely at all of the cracks in a sidewalk to see the bigger picture.

 

On the subject of sidewalks/Lakewood... My city spent this summer grinding down protruding edges on sidewalks and replacing others. It's the third time they've done that in my neighborhood since I moved to it 22 years ago. Haven't seen them touch Edgewater sidewalks in that time period, except along Clifton that got a $20 million rebuild in 2014-15. In my 51 years, Edgewater was always the Cleveland neighborhood where the city officials lived so it was usually better maintained than most neighborhoods. And it still didn't and doesn't measure up to Lakewood. I call the cops in my neighborhood maybe once every year or three. It's nice having a whole cavalry of police cars show up in less than two minutes of your phone call, isn't it?

Because Westlake, thanks to Crocker Park, is now the epicenter of urbanity in Northeast Ohio!

 

Back to sidewalks, X is correct about the city doing some work along Prospect. But it is classic Cleveland -- no attention to detail especially when pedestrians are concerned. You can't even walk safely (or move at all if you're disabled). Note the other side of the street as well, which has the sidewalk completely blocked and no temporary pedestrian passageways provided. Is it really this hard, Cleveland??

 

 

Could a motivated organization sue the city for ADA violations (or at least threaten to) for stuff like this? They could document all the locations in the city that aren't safe  according to ADA and demand a plan to fix it, or else they'd unleash an avalanche of legal challenges.

For whatever reason I thought the city was the responsible party for repairing sidewalks in Cleveland. Did some light digging and it's actually the property owner who is responsible for any repairs. This makes more sense to me, as that is the case in most cities it seems. So this may be the root cause of why so many are in such disrepair (and why the better neighborhoods seem to have better sidewalks). Homeowners just don't have the money or the care to repair damaged blocks. The city does apparently have a 50/50 program to help low income residents with repairs, though funds are limited each year. Certainly the city could do a much better job with code enforcement in all areas, and particularly sidewalks.

 

Here is the city's sidewalk fact sheet:

http://www.city.cleveland.oh.us/sites/default/files/forms_publications/SidewalkFactSheet.pdf

I was in Cleveland over labor day weekend, and did notice that they weirdly just close off sidewalks for construction projects, and the only option is to cross the street. No protected areas to walk around it using the street. There was a lot Downtown. It was especially annoying coming off the Red Line at Little Italy where you are pretty much forced to jaywalk across Mayfield to continue into Little Italy. To legally use a crosswalk would send you the opposite way toward Euclid Ave.

 

In Chicago, it seems more the norm to have a devoloper provide safe ped access around a construction site on the same side of the street...especially Downtown. They place Jersey barriers around the path into the street.

For whatever reason I thought the city was the responsible party for repairing sidewalks in Cleveland. Did some light digging and it's actually the property owner who is responsible for any repairs.

 

However the city typically initiates sidewalk improvements and then bills the property owner.

For whatever reason I thought the city was the responsible party for repairing sidewalks in Cleveland. Did some light digging and it's actually the property owner who is responsible for any repairs.

 

However the city typically initiates sidewalk improvements and then bills the property owner.

 

Its my understanding that the city doing sidewalk work themselves (and billing or not billing the owner) is pretty atypical. In South Euclid the city doesn't replace sidewalk blocks, its all up to the homeowner. We will issue a citation for code violations if its seen to be cracked of unlevel, at which point the property owner is responsible for repairing it. For senior and low income owners though, grants are available for any code violation repairs, including sidewalks. Shaker Hts is pretty much exactly the same, only with the option of hiring a contractor through the city, where the city will bill you instead.

Here is how Lakewood does it.....

http://www.onelakewood.com/understanding-the-citys-sidewalk-strategy/

Yet Lakewood is still losing population and their schools are below average compared to the other western suburban communities.

I started this thread with the intent to improve walking conditions in Cleveland by pointing out the deficiencies. It's not a personal attack. The sidewalks aren't your fault/achievement. So please don't get defensive about constructive criticism. We all win when Cleveland becomes a real "community of choice."

Yet Lakewood is still losing population and their schools are below average compared to the other western suburban communities.

 

To try to prove a point by saying Lakewood is "losing population" completely misses the point.  Lakewood has the hottest housing market in NEO.  Houses are selling within days.  There is not enough housing supply.  And their sidewalks are great.

That's not the point either. I frequently post about positive developments in Cleveland but I'm not taken to task about it, even though I don't live in Cleveland. But when I point out a shortcoming, that's apparently when I'm not allowed to say anything. Glad i wasn't held to that standard when I was a newspaper reporter--I never covered a city beat for a city I lived in, and I wrote positive and negative articles about each community.

That's not the point either. I frequently post about positive developments in Cleveland but I'm not taken to task about it, even though I don't live in Cleveland. But when I point out a shortcoming, that's apparently when I'm not allowed to say anything. Glad i wasn't held to that standard when I was a newspaper reporter--I never covered a city beat for a city I lived in, and I wrote positive and negative articles about each community.

 

I know what you mean. I’m just saying, if the other poster is going to point out negatives about Lakewood,, posting about population loss is not the way to go, since Lakewood is pretty hot right now.

 

And yes, it’s a good thing reporters don’t have residency requirements:)

It's not just Cleveland.....

 

@MobileHarv

In Columbus Ohio sidewalks are treated as property owners’ responsibilities rather than as transportation infrastructure.  Consequently, sidewalks are crumbling and in disrepair, making walking difficult and dangerous for older pedestrians. 

^

That's not the point either. I frequently post about positive developments in Cleveland but I'm not taken to task about it, even though I don't live in Cleveland. But when I point out a shortcoming, that's apparently when I'm not allowed to say anything. Glad i wasn't held to that standard when I was a newspaper reporter--I never covered a city beat for a city I lived in, and I wrote positive and negative articles about each community.

 

I know what you mean. I’m just saying, if the other poster is going to point out negatives about Lakewood,, posting about population loss is not the way to go, since Lakewood is pretty hot right now.

 

And yes, it’s a good thing reporters don’t have residency requirements:)

 

That's not the point either. I frequently post about positive developments in Cleveland but I'm not taken to task about it, even though I don't live in Cleveland. But when I point out a shortcoming, that's apparently when I'm not allowed to say anything. Glad i wasn't held to that standard when I was a newspaper reporter--I never covered a city beat for a city I lived in, and I wrote positive and negative articles about each community.

 

You can say anything you want about Cleveland, and I can do the same about Lakewood.  All my original post stated was that the city has fixed many bad sidewalks in my neighborhood, along with an increased amount of street sweeping... Giving the city credit apparently sets some off on this site.  Your post "this is how Lakewood does it" was an unnecessary and off topic dig.  But if you want to play that game...Ok, let's play.

 

Clifton Ave is great example of where Cleveland got it right and Lakewood failed miserably....Here are two pics from yesterday while I ate breakfast at Landmark.  In the 30min I was there, the pedestrian traffic on Lakewood's side was non-existent, while Cleveland's sidewalks were busy as hell.  At a major intersection (w117 and Clifton) Lakewood decided a gas station and poorly designed pharmacy was good enough for its residents.  Thankfully, Cleveland pushed for better. 

 

That's not the point either. I frequently post about positive developments in Cleveland but I'm not taken to task about it, even though I don't live in Cleveland. But when I point out a shortcoming, that's apparently when I'm not allowed to say anything. Glad i wasn't held to that standard when I was a newspaper reporter--I never covered a city beat for a city I lived in, and I wrote positive and negative articles about each community.

 

I know what you mean. I’m just saying, if the other poster is going to point out negatives about Lakewood,, posting about population loss is not the way to go, since Lakewood is pretty hot right now.

 

And yes, it’s a good thing reporters don’t have residency requirements:)

 

A hot real estate market doesn't mean a city is growing...Using 2017 estimates, Lakewood lost 14% of it's population since 1990. 

That Walgreens Pharmacy, from what I remember, is like the most profitable location in the region. While it's not great urban design it's been there for a long long time.

 

Also Clifton Ave West of W117 was pretty much in good condition prior to the Clifton streetscape. It didn't need the complete overhaul that was done East of W117.

 

Anyhow I'm hopeful that one day pedestrians and cyclists will be able to cross Clifton without the fears of being run over.

Profits over people. Cool.  The gas station and poorly designed pharmacy kill that intersection. Oh well, Cleveland got it right.

Thankfully, Cleveland pushed for better. 

 

 

Bad example. Aside from the NE corner, the land uses predate their city's uses of zoning. The CVS was a Clark Restaurant, with the portion closest to the intersection built in 1937. There's been a gas station at the SW corner of Clifton/West 117th since at least the 1920s based on old photos I've seen. The Lee Solding Building on the SE corner in Cleveland dates from 1940. The only zoning-era building built at this intersection was the Clifton Shoppes, which the city of Cleveland does deserve credit for pushing it to the sidewalk -- just as Lakewood did in getting the Walgreen's store to build up to the corner at West 117th and Detroit. But the NE corner was previously occupied by a heavily remodeled 1920s-era building that came up to the sidewalks. The developers built these buildings where they did before cities gained legal teeth to guide land use.

 

But, what do the land uses along the sidewalks have to do with the condition of the sidewalks? Thanks for taking this thread off topic.

^ what does police response times have to do with Cleveland sidewalks? You can’t bully me off of here.

^ what does police response times have to do with Cleveland sidewalks? You can’t bully me off of here.

 

Not trying to. Take care.

It's not just Cleveland.....

 

@MobileHarv

In Columbus Ohio sidewalks are treated as property owners’ responsibilities rather than as transportation infrastructure.  Consequently, sidewalks are crumbling and in disrepair, making walking difficult and dangerous for older pedestrians. 

 

Personally I think it should be a city's responsibility to maintain all of the sidewalks. Not only is the current way of putting it on the property owner bad for older pedestrians, it can be bad for older homeowners who often don't have extra funds to make repairs. That though would require higher taxes (particularly in smaller cities and suburbs), and that would likely be more unpopular with residents than the status quo of having to fix it themselves. For what we have now, stepped up code enforcement can go a long way to remedying the situation. From the previous page, Lakewood seems to have a good idea at it. To bring it back to the original post, there should be no excuse when that property owner is the City of Cleveland itself, or the land bank.

 

I will say too, I lived in Cleveland up until this spring, and honestly had no terrible issues with the sidewalks with all the walking I did around OC and Downtown. The only memorable trouble spot was the north side of Superior Ave, between W3 and W6, with the foot wide cracks between each block.

Clifton Ave is great example of where Cleveland got it right and Lakewood failed miserably....Here are two pics from yesterday while I ate breakfast at Landmark.  In the 30min I was there, the pedestrian traffic on Lakewood's side was non-existent, while Cleveland's sidewalks were busy as hell.  Lakewood decided a gas station and poorly designed pharmacy was good enough for its residents.  Thankfully, Cleveland pushed for better. 

 

Cleveland's side is mostly retail, Lakewood's side is mostly residential.  That's why you see different foot traffic.  There's a gas station on the Cleveland side too, a couple blocks down.  Who cares.  Plenty of other stuff to draw pedestrians. 

 

It is strange there's no mixed-use in this corner of Lakewood, but that goes back 100 years.

Today I noticed the city is adding brick crosswalks to the w54th and w58th intersections [/member] detroit Ave.  They look v. nice and are a huge improvement over what was there. 

This is also a nice touch, at Clifton/Lake by Edgewater Park.....

 

I'm pretty ecstatic that "close walk to Edgewater Park" is now a very real selling point in real estate listings. I wasn't sure I would see these changes happen in my lifetime.

This is also a nice touch, at Clifton/Lake by Edgewater Park.....

 

 

This looks good.  It's an adhesive polymer with the look of brick (from a distance) without the maintenance issues or cost of brick, although I don't know the official term for the material.  Brick stickers, lol.

how do they hold up?