We are going to have to start handing neckbeards hammers en masse if we don't want to lose height on these projects.

The new design looks like it’ll provide a better pedestrian experience, which is a thousand times more impactful on creating an enjoyable, walkable urban area than the height of the building. Obviously I’d rather have this design be 35 stories instead of 26(28?), but the new design is still superior for all purposes of actually interacting with the building. 

90,000 square feet of office space, but no mention of verified tenants. Are they building spec? If they can get proper financing that way why must Millennial Tower wait?

Edited July 11, 20195 yr by aderwent

1 minute ago, FudgeRounds said:

The new design looks like it’ll provide a better pedestrian experience, which is a thousand times more impactful on creating an enjoyable, walkable urban area than the height of the building. Obviously I’d rather have this design be 35 stories instead of 26(28?), but the new design is still superior for all purposes of actually interacting with the building. 

Completely agree. Plus the huge mix of uses will have hundreds of people on this block 24/7. The one thing I'm curious about is the North Market extension/atrium. If it looks as barren and useless as the bare rendering from October I will be disappointed.

 

Here's a really low quality mock up of the skyline after these projects are complete. Scales are definitely way off.

Awwww...you added the Millennial Tower!  R.I.P. ?

46 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

Awwww...you added the Millennial Tower!  R.I.P. ?

 

Don't give up hope!

58 minutes ago, Gino27 said:

 

Here's a really low quality mock up of the skyline after these projects are complete. Scales are definitely way off.

 

You didn't add the new Crew Stadium and related mixed-use development. Unacceptable!

1 hour ago, cbussoccer said:

 

You didn't add the new Crew Stadium and related mixed-use development. Unacceptable!

 

Happy now???

5 hours ago, Clefan98 said:

26 stories is still meh when compared to the original 35 stories. Especially when you consider the current blah design of the  building. 

 

Incorrect.

7 hours ago, GCrites80s said:

We are going to have to start handing neckbeards hammers en masse if we don't want to lose height on these projects.

 

When only losing a quarter of the original height is considered a big win, there’s a problem.  

12 hours ago, jonoh81 said:

 

When only losing a quarter of the original height is considered a big win, there’s a problem.  

I’m pretty sure that overall square footage (and thus DENSITY) has increased from the 35 floor design. If so, then there’s really no honest way to argue the new design is less urban than the old design, which is ultimately more important than height....

Edited July 12, 20195 yr by FudgeRounds
Typo

12 minutes ago, FudgeRounds said:

I’m pretty sure that overall square footage (and thus DENSITY) has increased from the 35 floor design. If so, then there’s really no honest way to argue the new design is less urban than the old design, which is ultimately more important than height....

High five to that!  Urbanity and density isn't solely based on height.  Height is great for postcards, density is great for vibrancy.  I think most people are 'in this' for the activity, options, and density it will bring downtown opposed to how pretty it will look on a postcard.  BTW - do people still send postcards?  lol

Edited July 12, 20195 yr by Scott Krajeski

4 minutes ago, Scott Krajeski said:

High five to that!  Urbanity and density isn't solely based on height.  Height is great for postcards, density is great for vibrancy.  I think most people are 'in this' for the activity, options, and density it will bring downtown opposed to how pretty it will look on a postcard.  BTW - do people still send postcards?  lol

 

Whats a postcard? Haha

It's looking beautiful

^The best!

So, yes, it dropped 7-9 floors. Who cares?

 

• It went from +10,000sqft to the North Market to +11,000 sqft.
• It went from 40,000sqft of office space to 90,000sqft.
• It went from 200 residential units to 150, but + a 210-room hotel.
• It went from 130 underground parking spaces to 352 above ground spaces.

 

It also says "Restaurant and bar concepts and indoor and outdoor spaces including a rooftop venue, ground-floor retail and a wellness facility;" Not sure the square footage vs the ~50,000sqft of restaurants and retail initially.

 

Plus, it reads to me if they find a large office tenant the height could still go up to accommodate.

^ 9 floors is a big reduction...You're talking about 120' or so.

 

And what if they don't find a large office tenant?

15 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

^ 9 floors is a big reduction...You're talking about 120' or so.

 

And what if they don't find a large office tenant?

Why does height matter? If they kept the height and added to the footprint like they did they'd need an additional ~200,000sqft of space used.

 

Considering they more than doubled the initial office space I would say they already have verbal agreements. I'm talking additionally as they said it could still go up pending needing more office space. Sounds to me like 26 floors is the floor here.

11 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

^ 9 floors is a big reduction...You're talking about 120' or so.

 

And what if they don't find a large office tenant?

 

I think the office space situation all comes down to how the project is being handled at all levels. 

 

Millennial Tower has reportedly been struggling to fill commercial/office space however, the majority of the project is just spec design and has truly had some of the most ambiguous timelines I've ever seen. North Market Tower seems to be the opposite, much of the space is already planned for specific tenants, comes with built in revenue by nature of being a market extension, and the timelines are becoming much more definite which all make leasing office much easier. Perspective tenants don't tend to like the game of chance, which seems to actually be the game for Arshot, while Wood and Schiff are major players in the city that know people and actually build. 

 

I think if you take these pieces into consideration, the location and existing desirability of the location, and recent reports are showing that that Class A office space vacancy in downtown is hitting new lows and rents are rising to the the $25-$30 SF range, I imagine they will find some office tenant pretty easily. I could be wrong, yes, but personally I think we could see a slight floor count increase and expect a tenant announcement before construction is complete. 

 

 

2 hours ago, FudgeRounds said:

I’m pretty sure that overall square footage (and thus DENSITY) has increased from the 35 floor design. If so, then there’s really no honest way to argue the new design is less urban than the old design, which is ultimately more important than height....

 

Cool, so HighPoint is like the most urban project Downtown has seen, because it has had the highest density of any project in the last 20 years. 

 

I'm glad everyone's fine with mediocrity.  The design got worse, the height dropped... Columbus has no real vision, IMO.  And if height reductions aren't a big deal, consider all the projects since 2000 that have been proposed around the urban core that saw reductions, the many undersized proposals for the location or projects that were canceled outright due to NIMBYism.  How many more buildings would they have added up to?  I'm comfortable saying that the number is high.  Even if you're all fine with the design- yet another box- the city is still facing a massive housing shortage.  One project won't affect that, but dozens and dozens over the years combined?  I just don't understand why things can't get done the way they should be.  Columbus is not really addressing a single urban issue it has, and sooner or later, that's going to come back to haunt them.

Edited July 12, 20195 yr by jonoh81

^The city has had one building over 300 feet (Miranova at 314") built this century, and that was in 2001.

 

The North Market Tower may or may not cross that threshold (no real details given on height that I've seen, maybe I missed them).  The original design had it at 350+ feet, but with the reduction in floors, it may be around 300 ft.  Both Millennial Tower (should it get built) and the Hilton Tower are pegged for 375-380 feet.

 

20+ years without any real addition to the skyline or height above 300 ft is a long time to go for a city that is "booming" and has a housing shortage.

I hate height close to large empty lots.

1 hour ago, DarkandStormy said:

^The city has had one building over 300 feet (Miranova at 314") built this century, and that was in 2001.

 

The North Market Tower may or may not cross that threshold (no real details given on height that I've seen, maybe I missed them).  The original design had it at 350+ feet, but with the reduction in floors, it may be around 300 ft.  Both Millennial Tower (should it get built) and the Hilton Tower are pegged for 375-380 feet.

 

20+ years without any real addition to the skyline or height above 300 ft is a long time to go for a city that is "booming" and has a housing shortage.

 

Yep.  But it's not just the height problem, for me.  You can have great urban neighborhoods that aren't especially tall.  I worry more that projects just aren't maximizing their locations or potential.  The project at Gay and High is awful, not only from its size, but design.  There are so many projects like that.  Of course I am happy that we are seeing bigger projects now, as for a long time we couldn't even get past 5-6 stories even Downtown, but there's still a troubling issue where projects are constantly downsizing and getting built on the cheap.  I just don't get it when vacancies are very low and demand is very high.  I know there are issues with construction labor shortages and higher steel prices, but those issues are national and plenty of other cities with far fewer positives are still managing to get bigger, better and a larger quantity of projects financed and built.  There just seems to be specific, local issues at play. 

Edited July 12, 20195 yr by jonoh81

Well, I know I am a bit late to the game, much appreciated @Gino27! I went ahead and added Gravity II and played with the scale a bit more. Enjoy! 

 

Edited July 12, 20195 yr by DevolsDance

Dang @DevolsDance, that's pretty impressive! 35 stories sure would look nice over there. It sure makes me really hope Millennial Tower gets built. It would do such a nice job of filling in the gaps.

I sure hope they add some good signage at the top or at least some nice uplighting so it could stand out at night. Cincinnati and Cleveland sure do know how to make their skyscrapers look impressive with external lighting.

Interview: Rockbridge CEO Jim Merkel on Planning for a North Market Hotel

 

The unveiling last week of a new plan to redevelop the North Market parking lot was greeted with great interest by those who wondered if the project — first proposed in 2016 — was ever going to move forward.

 

The new design features a tower that is both shorter and wider than the one that was unveiled in 2017.  The primary change in the programming of the building, though, is the addition of a hotel, something that representatives of the city, the North Market, and the development team behind the project have all said is key to its viability.

 

Columbus Underground recently spoke to Jim Merkel, CEO of Rockbridge, the Columbus-based company that was brought on to develop the hotel portion of the project.  Although Rockbridge is a major player nationally in the hotel development world, a lack of high-profile projects in Columbus has meant that the company often flies below the radar locally.  Merkel knows that that is about to change, and is looking forward to the challenge of developing a new, independent hotel “from scratch” for his hometown.

 

MORE:  https://www.columbusunderground.com/interview-rockbridge-ceo-jim-merkel-north-market-hotel-bw1

 

On 7/13/2019 at 2:51 PM, CBUS_Res said:

I sure hope they add some good signage at the top or at least some nice uplighting so it could stand out at night. Cincinnati and Cleveland sure do know how to make their skyscrapers look impressive with external lighting.

I am hoping for this, too. Something needs to be done to increase the visual appeal of the downtown buildings. Its shocking to me that so many are dark. Something as simple as LED lights outlining the shape would go a long way.

1 hour ago, NightNectar said:

I am hoping for this, too. Something needs to be done to increase the visual appeal of the downtown buildings. Its shocking to me that so many are dark. Something as simple as LED lights outlining the shape would go a long way.

Agreed. Particularly bad is the William Green Building, which essentially disappears at night.

4 hours ago, Imwalle said:

Agreed. Particularly bad is the William Green Building, which essentially disappears at night.

Right? It looks like a creepy abandoned building after hours. A little bit of lighting would do wonders especially since it has nice architecture. 

4 hours ago, Imwalle said:

Agreed. Particularly bad is the William Green Building, which essentially disappears at night.

 

I believe Williams Green is a state office building unfortunately, I just don't think they see any value in exterior illumination or aesthetics anymore. But you're right, it would look awesome with some LED uplighting on some or all of the corner cuts and pinnacle. 

 

Heck, I think we got lucky the Riffe has even the minimal crown lighting it has (which I actually really like). 

We used to be ahead of the curve regionally for lighting say 10 years ago but then got passed by a lot of them.

Its a real shame. Even the prominent slab of concrete that is the Miranova building has basic uplighting; however, it shuts off by 10pm. The skyline essentially goes dark after 10pm outside of Nationwide building 2 and Leveque. The main street bridge has uplighting on the arch cables but half are burnt out or outdated halogen bulbs.

Edited July 24, 20195 yr by NightNectar

24 minutes ago, NightNectar said:

Its a real shame. Even the prominent slab of concrete that is the Miranova building has basic uplighting; however, it shuts off by 10pm. The skyline essentially goes dark after 10pm outside of Nationwide building 2 and Leveque. The main street bridge has uplighting on the arch cables but half are burnt out or outdated halogen bulbs.

 

I don't know what time LeVeque shuts their lights off, but they don't leave them on all night either (which is ridiculous). I think they turn back on at 6am.

7 hours ago, NightNectar said:

Its a real shame. Even the prominent slab of concrete that is the Miranova building has basic uplighting; however, it shuts off by 10pm. The skyline essentially goes dark after 10pm outside of Nationwide building 2 and Leveque. The main street bridge has uplighting on the arch cables but half are burnt out or outdated halogen bulbs.

 

I don’t understand this. A skyline is usually the first impression you have of a city and the fact that hardly any of the buildings have decent lighting just makes downtown seem lifeless after sunset. 

I'm really unsure of the correct terminology with this but.. The downtown development "rule book" (guideline? standards?) should require exterior lighting on all new builds. 80 on the commons is a great example of a new build with a prominent location that could benefit from basic uplighting of some sort. It would really pop when you are at the commons past dusk. 

 

Apologies -- getting off topic here. I digress.

Edited July 25, 20195 yr by NightNectar
Off topic

On ‎7‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 8:09 AM, NightNectar said:

Its a real shame. Even the prominent slab of concrete that is the Miranova building has basic uplighting; however, it shuts off by 10pm. The skyline essentially goes dark after 10pm outside of Nationwide building 2 and Leveque. The main street bridge has uplighting on the arch cables but half are burnt out or outdated halogen bulbs.

 

Nationwide One at least has a lighted logo at the top of both side of the building and uplighting that lights up the edges ~halfway up the building, more or less.  Nationwide 2 is east side of High Street and not really part of the skyline - think you're referring to Plaza 3, which yes does have lighting at the top of the building.

I really think we can forget about the Millennial. It's been four years now and if Arshot can't find enough tenants to fill 50K of Class A office space when everyone agrees there's a shortage of Class A office space downtown, then either they aren't trying very hard or have just given up.

Can we please get back on topic?  This is not the "Uplighting" thread and it's not the Millennial Tower thread.  Those threads exist if you feel compelled to comment.  

As we all know a cemetery is located beneath the North Market parking lot. Would I be safe to assume that the timeline recently set forth for construction of the new tower will include the excavation and proper removal of the remains beneath? I only hear mention of the cemetery but nothing about the developers having plans to address that issue publicly.  

10 hours ago, jeremyck01 said:

Can we please get back on topic?  This is not the "Uplighting" thread and it's not the Millennial Tower thread.  Those threads exist if you feel compelled to comment.  

I apologized for diverting 

4 hours ago, 4N6science said:

As we all know a cemetery is located beneath the North Market parking lot. Would I be safe to assume that the timeline recently set forth for construction of the new tower will include the excavation and proper removal of the remains beneath? I only hear mention of the cemetery but nothing about the developers having plans to address that issue publicly.  

 

That exact question was asked on Columbus Underground in the comments section, probably by you, and the answer was given by another forumer:

 

3 months have been built into the timeline to address an archeological dig.   screenshot below:

 

 

Edited July 26, 20195 yr by jeremyck01

5 hours ago, jeremyck01 said:

 

That exact question was asked on Columbus Underground in the comments section, probably by you, and the answer was given by another forumer:

 

3 months have been built into the timeline to address an archeological dig.   screenshot below:

 

 

 

Nope, that is not me on Columbus Underground but thank you for pointing me to that comment. 

Update on the tower from Columbus Biz First: https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2019/09/24/developers-update-north-market-tower-plans-see-how.html?iana=hpmvp_colum_news_headline

 

- Floor count down to 26

- Will top out at 333 feet

- 90,000 sq ft retail

- 150 residential units

- 11,000 sq ft market space

- 210 room hotel

- 325 space garage

- Construction to begin mid-2020 and wrap up late 2022

- Still has to go before the Downtown Commission and the city's Historic Resources Commission for review and final approvals

 

"They won't continually reduce height," they said.

 

The new rendering looks nothing like the original that "won" the contest.  Why even hold the contest at all?

On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 12:47 PM, casey said:

Fantastic! Very glad that Wood/Schiff were chosen. They are top-notch developers that do absolutely world-class work. (Actually, so do Pizzuti and NRI, but this proposal was clearly the most exciting).

 

On completion, 'Market Tower' will not only become the new tallest residential building in Ohio (supplanting Miranova), but will also be the largest tower built Downtown since the Franklin County Courthouse was completed in 1991.

 

On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 12:07 PM, ColDayMan said:

From the article...

 

While the height — at 400 feet, it would be about the height of the Borden Building — is what is going to stand out to many, it wasn’t a deciding factor for the city.

 

So it'll be slightly shorter than Three Nationwide.  I'll take it!

 

Reading these initial takes is so sad.  If it stands at 26 stories / 333 feet (and I'm doubtful it will), it would only be slightly taller than Miranova and become (barely) the 2nd building over 300 feet since 2000.

I like it.

The project is still moving along which is a good sign, it seems they have really worked to make this happen. I know we all want taller but for me, while it may not be the grandiose design we saw back in 2017, it's still the tallest structure we've seen downtown in a decade and a great design/mix of uses for the area. 

 

I think that this project could ultimately serve as a test of waters for many prospective developments, if the project is built to scale and is successful, I expect to see things take off. This will be the first large scale, private, mixed use tower in Columbus, if it all works out I think it could signal to lots of people with their perspective eyes on the city that we can support such things.  

Edited September 24, 20195 yr by DevolsDance