TMUD applications open in June. Not really able to figure out what the time frame for review and approval is. They will be annually awarded. 

 

$80 million tax credit cap annually for urban projects (cities over 100,000 pop) $40 million tax credit cap per project. If more than the $80 million is received in applications, they will be ranked and awarded. Those that are not awarded can apply the following year. In theory, only 2 projects might get the award if they are two significant projects. I'm also not sure if the state can essentially determine a different award amount from what was applied for. 

 

Developers must provide an construction timeline and construction must start within 12 months of the award. 

 

NEOtrans reported in November that up to 30 Cleveland Area Proposals would appear to qualify. That didn't appear to include any in Akron if they have some floating out there. I'm not sure what Cincinnati, Toledo, Dayton etc have in the pipelines.

 

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/11/29-cleveland-area-megaprojects-that-may.html?m=1

 

It seems it may be pretty competitive right out the gate to Super Daddy's point. More than I actually expected tbh. My naivite thought it would be North Market MUP, NuCLEus, maybe Millennial and a couple others perhaps. While I expect that North Market Mixed Use Project (formerly North Market Tower) has a high chance of being ranked near the top and a pretty good chance of getting the credit, my curiosity will be what happens if it misses out on the 2021 credits. Is it further delayed or do they have the financing in place to move forward? Might we see the next update be that they will reapply in 2022 and break ground in 2023. I really hope the answer is groundbreaking in 2022 no matter what. I'd actually like to see that laid out by the investment group but I highly doubt they would show their hand if the project now hinges on this credit. But that is my concern. Can this project be successful without it? In theory it has all the right backers with or without the credit and maybe the credit is just icing on the cake. 

 

I believe previously they stated they pretty much had it all secured but were working out some details. This is similar to what has happened to projects like Millennial and NuCLEus in that funding is often the major factor in delay. 

 

............................

 

And before I get flack for dropping 'Tower'... From Biz Journals July 2019

 

Now termed the "North Market Mixed-Use Project" as opposed to its earlier moniker "North Market Tower," the 28-story project cuts off about seven stories from earlier plans in favor of a 600,000-square-foot development that is wider at its base. 

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2019/07/11/new-shorter-175m-north-market-tower-plan-emerges.html

 

........................

 

edit: and I'm sorry for always harping on the finances. That's just where I largely see the biggest issues for major projects if it isn't a commission issue. I promise I'm still hopeful. Just inquisitive about what is going on behind the curtain. 

Edited February 19, 20214 yr by DTCL11

I think the north market development has a good change of getting it because it is building upon the historic north market. As a generational project, I feel like this is one that stands above some often others. Either way, I think construction will start during 2022 still. 

Edited February 19, 20214 yr by VintageLife
Fixed spelling error

3 hours ago, VintageLife said:

I think the north market development as a good change of getting it because it is building upon the historic north market. As a generational project, I feel like this is one that stands above some often others. Either way, I think construction will start during 2022 still. 

Yeah thats why I think it will between North Market and Centennial in Cleveland for the first credit due to the historic factors of both.

9 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said:

Yeah thats why I think it will between North Market and Centennial in Cleveland for the first credit due to the historic factors of both.

 

Wouldn't that be something if Stark lost out on NuCLEus after initially designing the bill to solely apply to his project. 😂 He is really the reason there was a push for TMUD to begin with. 

1 minute ago, DTCL11 said:

 

Wouldn't that be something if Stark lost out on NuCLEus after initially designing the bill to solely apply to his project. 😂 He is really the reason there was a push for TMUD to begin with. 

Would be amazing, to be honest I'd prefer Centennial done first and then someone else to develop Nuceleus site.

This engineering application was submitted on Friday....

 

 

https://portal.columbus.gov/Permits/Cap/CapDetail.aspx?Module=Engineering&TabName=Engineering&capID1=21ARY&capID2=00000&capID3=00116&agencyCode=COLUMBUS&IsToShowInspection=

1 hour ago, cbussoccer said:

This engineering application was submitted on Friday....

 

 

https://portal.columbus.gov/Permits/Cap/CapDetail.aspx?Module=Engineering&TabName=Engineering&capID1=21ARY&capID2=00000&capID3=00116&agencyCode=COLUMBUS&IsToShowInspection=

Thanks for posting! After a relatively slow 2020, things are starting to get pretty exciting in Columbus! I can’t believe how much has changed since I’ve lived here, and I feel another 5-6 years, it’ll feel like a whole new city all over again. 

2 hours ago, cbussoccer said:

This engineering application was submitted on Friday....

 

 

https://portal.columbus.gov/Permits/Cap/CapDetail.aspx?Module=Engineering&TabName=Engineering&capID1=21ARY&capID2=00000&capID3=00116&agencyCode=COLUMBUS&IsToShowInspection=

Has this moved back to a 2021 groundbreaking?  Or is the timing of this application still in line with a 2022 groundbreaking?  It just seems like we usually start seeing some activity on site not too long after engineering applications are filed.  Maybe they were waiting for a TMUD credit but the delay in that program has made them to just go ahead and move on without it?

Edited May 3, 20214 yr by TH3BUDDHA

8 hours ago, TH3BUDDHA said:

Has this moved back to a 2021 groundbreaking?  Or is the timing of this application still in line with a 2022 groundbreaking?  It just seems like we usually start seeing some activity on site not too long after engineering applications are filed.  Maybe they were waiting for a TMUD credit but the delay in that program has made them to just go ahead and move on without it?

 

I'm guessing it's still a 2022 groundbreaking. Back in February they filed a different engineering application with the city, and then about a week later we found out groundbreaking would occur in 2022. Previously, we had heard mid-2021. It would be awesome if they could push up the groundbreaking, but I doubt that will happen.

Fun little update for the hight lovers around here like myself...

 

I was able to get ahold of the spec sheet for NMT and the planned height is 356' tall!

Additionally it looks like the plan is to have 217 hotel rooms, 174 residential units, 54,000 sq/ft of office space, and 350 sparking spaces . 

 

For some perspective

375' - New Wexner Hospital Tower

361' - Hilton Tower

356' - North Market Tower 

 

That'll make these the 11th, 13th, and 15th tallest building in the city one complete. 

 

24 minutes ago, DevolsDance said:

Fun little update for the hight lovers around here like myself...

 

I was able to get ahold of the spec sheet for NMT and the planned height is 356' tall!

Additionally it looks like the plan is to have 217 hotel rooms, 174 residential units, 54,000 sq/ft of office space, and 350 sparking spaces . 

 

For some perspective

375' - New Wexner Hospital Tower

361' - Hilton Tower

356' - North Market Tower 

 

That'll make these the 11th, 13th, and 15th tallest building in the city one complete. 

 

I love getting this kind of info! These three will bring Columbus to 17 buildings over 100 meters. Cleveland currently has 17 while Cincinnati has 12 and Indianapolis has 9.

31 minutes ago, DevolsDance said:

Fun little update for the hight lovers around here like myself...

 

I was able to get ahold of the spec sheet for NMT and the planned height is 356' tall!

Additionally it looks like the plan is to have 217 hotel rooms, 174 residential units, 54,000 sq/ft of office space, and 350 sparking spaces . 

 

For some perspective

375' - New Wexner Hospital Tower

361' - Hilton Tower

356' - North Market Tower 

 

That'll make these the 11th, 13th, and 15th tallest building in the city one complete. 

 

Did they cut the retail portion of the building? 

33 minutes ago, VintageLife said:

Did they cut the retail portion of the building? 

 

Nope! The Retail/North market extension is still a key component of the project, just didn't have a breakdown of it. I believe the floor space is still being decided because it all has to be divided into the hotel lobby, residential lobby, market, and atrium.

Edited May 5, 20214 yr by DevolsDance

@DevolsDancedo you have any idea of when groundbreaking will occur? 

2 hours ago, cbussoccer said:

@DevolsDancedo you have any idea of when groundbreaking will occur? 

 

Trying to find out but have no concrete answer yet. Hope to hear soon. 

Edited May 5, 20214 yr by DevolsDance

I recently asked someone on CU that is on the North Market Board of Directors, he said they are still planning on breaking ground this fall.

356 feet is much higher than I expected. This along with the Hilton expansion will really stand out and make the biggest impact in the skyline in 30 years.

Question for those who know how these things work:

 

With the price of lumber and materials skyrocketing, do projects like these get affected if they were proposed/planned a long time ago? Like are they locked into a certain price point of materials from when they started planning and financing the project?

 

I ask because I was certain some projects would get reduced in scale because of the prices of supplies right now, including this one, so that height "confirmation" is good news, imo.

There may not be a ton of lumber in this but other commodities are also affected for sure. The price of the tower goes up with every delay.  

 

As an example, the average 1500 SF home now costs 34k more to build just as a result of the increase in wood material costs alone. Now apply that to steel that is also increasingly impacted on a tower. 

 

I would be interested to see what the final total will be compared to original estimates. 

 

With that, financing is really good right now even compared to what it was when it was announced so that helps balance increased costs over time. 

Edited May 11, 20214 yr by DTCL11

Electrical materials have also gone up outrageously. Hearing PVC is next.

Do construction companies speculate on the price of materials like lumber just as transportation companies speculate on the price of fuel? 

There's some speculation involved but no speculation was ready for the skyrocketing prices. I can't imagine anyone imagined or prepared commodities and construction materials to jump up to 500% as is the case for wood. The average bulk unit of wood cost $343 last may. Today that same unit cost almost $1700. 

 

Steel has nearly doubled in price in a year. 

3 minutes ago, DTCL11 said:

There's some speculation involved but no speculation was ready for the skyrocketing prices. I can't imagine anyone imagined or prepared commodities and construction materials to jump up to 500% as is the case for wood. The average bulk unit of wood cost $343 last may. Today that same unit cost almost $1700. 

 

Steel has nearly doubled in price in a year. 

Speculation alone definitely wouldn’t offset the costs, but it could help soften the blow along with more favorable financing. Regardless, I’m sure the increased price tag will be a tough pill to swallow. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dispatch.com/amp/5661932001

 

After being delayed by the pandemic, a plan to develop the North Market parking lot is back, and bigger.

A 31-story tower anchors the new design for the mixed-use project to be located on a one-acre lot just east of the Downtown food market. The 700,000-square-foot tower would be the tallest built in Columbus since 1990, edging out the 28-story Hilton hotel being built a stone's throw away.

The North Market tower – five stories higher than the one announced two years ago – is the most dramatic element of a project that has grown in other ways, including cost, from an estimated $192 million to about $300 million.

 

Nice to see an increase and looks great. Build it now! 

Awesome! I think this looks better than the initial proposal. I wonder what the final height will be.

 

According to CU, construction won't start until summer of 2022 assuming approvals are granted. JUST BUILD THE THING ALREADY!!

2 minutes ago, cbussoccer said:

Awesome! I think this looks better than the initial proposal. I wonder what the final height will be.

 

According to CU, construction won't start until summer of 2022 assuming approvals are granted. JUST BUILD THE THING ALREADY!!

Agreed, the previous modification really strayed away from all the glass, so I'm glad to see a large portion of the glass returned.  I really enjoy the mix of hard materials with the glass a lot in tiered projects like this.  I also think it will compliment the Hilton tower nicely.  I'd love to see a development eventually that is not so sharp angled/boxy (kind of like Market Square Tower in Indy), but I still really really like this updated proposal!!!

The whole project is so much better and bigger. I noticed the hotel portion is taller. I count 19 floors including the rooftop compared to 13 on the previous rendition. I’m super excited for this project it is so much better now. I’m assuming it will be between 400’ and 420’. 

Oh God yes. So much better aesthetically. Reminds me of some of the builds in West Loop and I am here for it. 

 

I'm still concerned about these timeliness though. We were all but ASSURED it was going to start this fall come hell or high water and they pulled another Arshot. 

 

'We know it's another delay.... but look! Updates!'

 

Edited September 1, 20213 yr by DTCL11

Jeff Edwards has his hand in a lot of significant downtown projects. More here:

 

Quote

Rockbridge also announced today that Jeff Edwards, CEO and President of the Edwards Companies, is now a partner in the project. Merkel confirmed that Schiff Capital Group and Wood Companies – the two local developers that put together the original 2017 proposal for the North Market parking lot – still maintained “some economic incentives, but are not involved in the project on a day-to-day basis.”

 

One other detail shared by Merkel is that the development could be in line to receive a new state tax credit (passed last year as Senate Bill 39) that is designed specifically to incentivize, “transformational mixed use development projects” in the state.

https://www.columbusunderground.com/31-story-north-market-proposal-to-be-heard-by-commissions-bw1/

Excellent news! I think the renderings look great. This is a project I’ve been excited about for a long time, and I’m glad it’s getting even better. I just hope they actually start building it next year. 

This thread is over four years old after a "contest" was held, the winner's design will not be constructed (the latest update does look very good), and we're looking at a summer 2025 timeframe of being finished provided there are no further delays.

 

This thread will have been active for at least 8 years from the time the first design was chosen to when this final design is finished (again, if no more delays).

 

Brb heading over to the Millennial Tower thread.

18 minutes ago, Pablo said:

Jeff Edwards has his hand in a lot of significant downtown projects. More here:

 

https://www.columbusunderground.com/31-story-north-market-proposal-to-be-heard-by-commissions-bw1/

 

The Dispatch mentioned this in their article as well:  "Rockbridge, which has been involved in developing hundreds of hotels nationwide, added Jeff Edwards, CEO and president of the Columbus development firm The Edwards Companies, as a partner in the project."

 

They also mention that "developers also plan to apply for tax credits allowed under Ohio Senate Bill 39 for 'transformational mixed use development projects.' "

 

 

Here is the project breakdown from https://www.dispatch.com/story/business/2021/09/01/north-market-lot-become-31-story-office-hotel-residential-tower/5661932001/

 

The building will house several components in three connected sections, including:

• 170 apartments, including some lower-cost workforce housing, in the 31-story portion 
• A 212-room independent hotel in the 20-story portion 
• 60,000 square feet of offices, down slightly from 90,000 originally planned, in a nine-story section 
• a 350-space parking garage under the apartments 
• Rooftop amenities on all three sections including a "speakeasy," pool and spa accessible to members of a club; a dog park on the roof of the apartment section; and a ballroom and event space on top of the nine-story portion.

In addition, the project involves adding 11,000 square feet onto the east side of the North Market, expanding the market's space by about 50%.  The space would be split into 3,900 square feet for merchants, 4,400 square feet of event and public space, and 3,200 square feet of outdoor space. ... The North Market is designed to benefit financially as well from the plan.  Under the proposal, the city would transfer the parking lot to the developers.  In exchange, the developers will commit funds to the North Market to compensate for lost parking revenue in addition to hotel bed-tax revenue from the project.

I think the article also affirms that in all honesty, this is our NuCLEus project. It has become pretty evident that the financing for the project is not coming through unless there is major investment from a tax program or otherwise. 

 

It's unfortunate but this appears to be the reality. And I'm not holding my breath for TMUD. It's going to be way more competitive than I think most assume. With a handful of awards a year, there could be 50+ applications to compete with. The revision of the law made so many projects eligible. NeoTransits account, over 30 in NEO Ohio alone may qualify. 

 

I'll stop there. Don't want to get too far down the negativity path before I get ganged up on.... again... 

North Market tower project adds a new partner, three more stories and affordable housing units

 

The North Market tower, plans for which were unveiled in 2019 after years of anticipation, is taking steps toward breaking ground in 2022, including adding a partner to the development team and increasing the project scope by about $100 million.

 

Jim Merkel, co-founder and CEO of Rockbridge, said the team at Rockbridge is gearing up to tackle this "transformational," nearly $292 million project. The development team behind the effort now includes Jeff Edwards, CEO and president of the Edwards Cos., Merkel said.

 

Other partners had included Schiff Capital Group and Wood Cos., which are now no longer partners but are still “economically invested in the project,” Merkel said.

 

Merkel said Edwards, who did not respond to a request for comment on his involvement, adds an important element to the development.

 

"This project is an extremely ambitious project. We're passionate about creating a transformational project that meets the needs of the city as well as the North Market," Merkel told Columbus Business First. "To put a 700,000-square-foot mixed-use building together takes a lot of resources and with Jeff's commitment to downtown, his residential acumen and a desire to build transformational projects, he was a natural partner for the project and helping make it happen."

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2021/09/01/north-market-tower.html

 

24 minutes ago, Columbo said:

They also mention that "developers also plan to apply for tax credits allowed under Ohio Senate Bill 39 for 'transformational mixed use development projects.' "

I was wondering if this was the case.  I noticed in many of their quotes, they mentioned how "transformational" this will be.

Just to compare the previous render to the new one. 

50 minutes ago, DarkandStormy said:

This thread is over four years old after a "contest" was held, the winner's design will not be constructed (the latest update does look very good), and we're looking at a summer 2025 timeframe of being finished provided there are no further delays.

 

This thread will have been active for at least 8 years from the time the first design was chosen to when this final design is finished (again, if no more delays).

 

Brb heading over to the Millennial Tower thread.

Well to be fair if you check the Sherwin-Williams HQ tower thread, it started in 2007(not four years old, but 14 years old)with a first post talking about a possible 60-70 story tower, so it could be worse-just putting it in perspective and all. (this is not an attack on that project-more like a "good things come to those that wait" take)

 

*keeping fingers crossed for the "transformational" tax credit.

 

And I LOVE the new project design and upgrade in size!  

Edited September 1, 20213 yr by Toddguy

7 minutes ago, WagChase said:

Just to compare the previous render to the new one. 

Sooo much better!!!!

 

I wonder what the height will be....and I also wonder if this will impact the chances of Harmony Tower happening?

 

*Now we just need someone to "stick in" the new Hilton Tower in this new rendering! lol

 

Compared to the previous design, this one is sharp!

Edited September 1, 20213 yr by Toddguy

I think they will definitely go for the TMUD, they'd be dumb not to, but I don't think the project is hinging on this.  They still have all partners in play plus the addition of Edwards.  My guess is they are delaying the start to at least attempt the application/win of the TMUD, and if it doesn't get awarded to them, they will still move forward.

 

As for how long this has taken, it's pretty standard considering all other large projects, plus there has been a pandemic in the middle.

 

 

3 hours ago, WagChase said:

So excited for this project. Unfortunately the Vine Street façade of the garage has seemed to significantly devolve... Like, is it completely open from the SW corner?! The mural is nice but we can NOT have a visible parking garage (even if it is literally facing another parking garage...). Also the little cantilevered masonry portion sticking out of the south façade is... strange. Obviously a lot of time and effort went into the North facade and that view facing the market plaza, which I appreciate, but did they just... forget about this south façade?

11 minutes ago, jebleprls22 said:

So excited for this project. Unfortunately the Vine Street façade of the garage has seemed to significantly devolve... Like, is it completely open from the SW corner?! The mural is nice but we can NOT have a visible parking garage (even if it is literally facing another parking garage...). Also the little cantilevered masonry portion sticking out of the south façade is... strange. Obviously a lot of time and effort went into the North facade and that view facing the market plaza, which I appreciate, but did they just... forget about this south façade?

I was going to post the same thing. That parking garage is huge and would be complete shame to just leave visible. Hopefully the commission says the same thing. 

5 minutes ago, VintageLife said:

I was going to post the same thing. That parking garage is huge and would be complete shame to just leave visible. Hopefully the commission says the same thing. 

It would be cool if they had some sort of material on the garage that could be painted on so they could just keep going with the mural to have it wrap around the side of the building to cover up the garage as well.

22 minutes ago, jebleprls22 said:

So excited for this project. Unfortunately the Vine Street façade of the garage has seemed to significantly devolve... Like, is it completely open from the SW corner?! The mural is nice but we can NOT have a visible parking garage (even if it is literally facing another parking garage...). Also the little cantilevered masonry portion sticking out of the south façade is... strange. Obviously a lot of time and effort went into the North facade and that view facing the market plaza, which I appreciate, but did they just... forget about this south façade?

The cantilevered brick was strange to me at first as well but as I continued to look at the design, it became apparent that they are really looking to "stack" the glass portion on top of the brick. I think the view from high and vine would be nice to see how that portion will appear to run "through" the glass portion. 

Im no architect so my terminology is likely awful but that is how I perceived it. 

33 minutes ago, jebleprls22 said:

So excited for this project. Unfortunately the Vine Street façade of the garage has seemed to significantly devolve... Like, is it completely open from the SW corner?! The mural is nice but we can NOT have a visible parking garage (even if it is literally facing another parking garage...). Also the little cantilevered masonry portion sticking out of the south façade is... strange. Obviously a lot of time and effort went into the North facade and that view facing the market plaza, which I appreciate, but did they just... forget about this south façade?

While I agree, I am glad that this "relatively minor" thing is what is the most troubling thing here with this new design- and it is probably easy to remedy as well to make it look less "naked and exposed". JMHO.

 

*So happy they dumped the "offset window jumble" of the main tower and decided on glass.

 

*the mural they used looks like a psychedelic Jesus about to be eaten by a psychedelic shark. lol And I would be ok with that...controversial and all lol.

Edited September 1, 20213 yr by Toddguy

4 hours ago, DarkandStormy said:

This thread is over four years old after a "contest" was held, the winner's design will not be constructed (the latest update does look very good), and we're looking at a summer 2025 timeframe of being finished provided there are no further delays.

 

This thread will have been active for at least 8 years from the time the first design was chosen to when this final design is finished (again, if no more delays).

 

Brb heading over to the Millennial Tower thread.

I wonder if the new state law played any role in MT’s potential comeback behind the scenes or if it’s actually fully, completely dead at this point.  Definitely leaning towards the latter.  

Edited September 1, 20213 yr by jonoh81

40 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

I wonder if the new state law played any role in MT’s potential comeback behind the scenes or if it’s actually fully, completely dead at this point.  Definitely leaning towards the latter.  

I feel like we would’ve heard at least something by now…but who knows. I’ll be pretty happy if we can just get this and Harmony built this decade lol

4 hours ago, Gnoraa said:

I think they will definitely go for the TMUD, they'd be dumb not to, but I don't think the project is hinging on this.  They still have all partners in play plus the addition of Edwards.  My guess is they are delaying the start to at least attempt the application/win of the TMUD, and if it doesn't get awarded to them, they will still move forward.

 

As for how long this has taken, it's pretty standard considering all other large projects, plus there has been a pandemic in the middle.

 

I agree with this. If you have a project that qualifies for the TMUD, you would be stupid to not apply. But this project was planned out well in advance of the TMUD coming into existence, so I doubt it's something they absolutely need to make the project happen. 

 

10 minutes ago, amped91 said:

I’ll be pretty happy if we can just get this and Harmony built this decade lol

 

I'm still feeling pretty iffy on Harmony, but if we can get this and Harmony built along with Hilton 2, it would be very significant. It would really fill out and extend our skyline when viewing it from the west. 

6 hours ago, WagChase said:

Just to compare the previous render to the new one. 

All around I agree with the rest of you all about liking the new version compared to the old, but I really liked the bottom glass market area on the old version… feel like it would have offered great weather coverage  for markets that happen there. Wonder why they did away with that