This is great news... even if it doesn't come to fruition, it is great to see that the owners of 309 Vine wanting to continue investing more in downtown Cincy: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/10/18/exclusive-iconic-downtown-skyscraper-eyed-for-103.html?ana=e_cinci_bn_exclusive&u=pSqExZKEC4SO1qd%2Br7QXPVws%2FLn&t=1539893600&j=84499771

Just now, jwulsin said:

This is great news... even if it doesn't come to fruition, it is great to see that the owners of 309 Vine wanting to continue investing more in downtown Cincy: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/10/18/exclusive-iconic-downtown-skyscraper-eyed-for-103.html?ana=e_cinci_bn_exclusive&u=pSqExZKEC4SO1qd%2Br7QXPVws%2FLn&t=1539893600&j=84499771

 

Good news indeed. With floor plates that small and currently rated Class C office it would be very tough to find an office user so residential would be great. And adding ~400 more residents to 4th street would be nice as well. 

Iconic downtown skyscraper eyed for $103 million conversion

 

One of the most recognizable office buildings in Greater Cincinnati could get new life by being transformed into hundreds of apartments.

 

The Union Central Life Insurance Co. Building, also known as the Fourth & Vine Tower or Central Trust Tower, is being eyed for a conversion to 262 apartments. Jonathan Holtzman, chairman and CEO of City Club Apartments LLC, submitted an application asking for $5 million in Ohio Historic Preservation Tax Credits for the potential project. The expected total investment for the project is nearly $102.9 million.

 

The proposed project includes rehabilitating and adapting the 31-story tower at 9 W. Fourth St. into a mixed-use project with ground floor retail, second floor commercial space and 262 residential apartments. The goal of the project is “to preserve one of Cincinnati’s vital historic and visual landmarks.” A development team is yet to be assembled.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/10/18/exclusive-iconic-downtown-skyscraper-eyed-for-103.html

 

Whoa. 

That's an enormous investment in one project. Speaks to how strong the market likely is for that type of conversion.

 

This takes office space off the market and clears out one of the largest possible tower conversions in the city, inching future demand for residential and office space towards large scale new construction. Huge win for the city.

 

Hopefully they can also restore the tip. Get back those few hacked off feet.

Hopefully this can lead to additional office development in the urban core too as they take out additional class B and C space in the area and force space like the 5/3 Center and USBank Center into B space, they can upgrade the urban core product too with a couple high rises.

I really, really, really hope this happens. It's just what that part of downtown needs! 

Great news! I was really surprised to read that this building is 73% vacant. 

^No doubt they haven't been seeking tenants for awhile. 

This, combined with the 4th and Race project, could really help transform this part of 4th St. Removing old, obsolete office space from the market is a positive thing, and with a lower vacancy rate for office space, maybe we will finally see the office pad at the Banks built on spec. 

20 hours ago, jmicha said:

Hopefully they can also restore the tip. Get back those few hacked off feet.

 

Anybody know when and why the tip was removed? I agree it'd be neat to get the top restored. Here's a small photo I found... anybody have a better, high-res version of the tower with the original top?

Meh, this is all I got:

 

 

 

The pyramid at the top was melted down and donated to the war effort in 1917. 

This really need to happen. 

^ Yes!  FWIW,  the Business Journal's editor followed up the original article with his own comments about it in his daily wrap-up, which was entitled: "A downtown game changer?" 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/10/19/five-things-you-need-to-know-today-and-a-game.html

 

On a different note entirely, I'm wondering if this development might be stymied by the "usual suspect," John Cranley.  This treacherous mayor has tampered with so many other downtown developments, I'm very afraid that his destructive influence may carry over here.  Am I wrong?

It may be Crancelled if it doesn’t line the pockets of his old guard donors. @jmecklenborg any insight as to whether this puts a dent in the Third Street cabal’s long term strategy?

I don't think these guys (Lindners, Williams bros) are interested in developing apartments.  The big money has always been in building Class A office towers because they cost about the same to build as an apartment tower but you can collect much higher rent.  When rich people control a local political machine, they control height limits, which just happen to coincide with the land they already own.  There is still space for office towers to be built on Third St. and the Joseph family is still holding onto its big lot waiting for Amazon II. 

On 10/21/2018 at 3:14 PM, jmecklenborg said:

I don't think these guys (Lindners, Williams bros) are interested in developing apartments.  The big money has always been in building Class A office towers because they cost about the same to build as an apartment tower but you can collect much higher rent.  When rich people control a local political machine, they control height limits, which just happen to coincide with the land they already own.  There is still space for office towers to be built on Third St. and the Joseph family is still holding onto its big lot waiting for Amazon II. 

 

 

I could see this actually helping the Lindners for when they eventually redevelop their HQ to an office tower in a few years. 

Why would the Lindners need a new office tower?  Great American is already in the newest and nicest office tower downtown.  

Quote

Why would the Lindners need a new office tower?  Great American is already in the newest and nicest office tower downtown. 

 

They have many other businesses other than Great American.

Carl Lindner, Jr.'s office was in the Provident Bank tower.  I assume that his sons are in that space today, not Great American Tower. 

 

I remember seeing Carl Lindner at the tower groundbreaking in 2008.  He looked bored to pieces.   

The Lindner brothers have their own floor at the top of the Great American tower. There’s literally a staircase in the middle of the executive floor that leads up to only their two offices. They may well have offices in other buildings as well but I know they’re in Great American tower a lot. I got a tour of the tower two years ago and got to see everything except for their floor. 

"The Lindner Brothers"

18 minutes ago, Cincy513 said:

The Lindner brothers have their own floor at the top of the Great American tower. There’s literally a staircase in the middle of the executive floor that leads up to only their two offices. They may well have offices in other buildings as well but I know they’re in Great American tower a lot. I got a tour of the tower two years ago and got to see everything except for their floor. 

 

Carl Lindner, Jr.'s office was in the Provident tower for decades, so they must have moved.   The business with the executive staircase doesn't sound too unusual.  Chiquita had that (I've heard) as did the 580 Walnut Building (incidentally the former home of Great American Insurance). 

 

14 minutes ago, taestell said:

"The Lindner Brothers"

 

Trump only inherited $420 million.  The Lindner boys got a lot more, even after splitting it.  That's why the city needs to drain its emergency fund to build them a parking garage. 

 

Not sure what is on the top floor, but if they don't build a penthouse like this and put glass windows behind the signs they are missing out. I'm sure it is full of boring stuff like AC units and elevator motors, but i'd gladly live among that stuff rent free in order to keep an eye on things for them.  https://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2010/10/20/garden/21WHOss.html

 

 

7 hours ago, Cincy513 said:

The Lindner brothers have their own floor at the top of the Great American tower. There’s literally a staircase in the middle of the executive floor that leads up to only their two offices. They may well have offices in other buildings as well but I know they’re in Great American tower a lot. I got a tour of the tower two years ago and got to see everything except for their floor. 

 

This isn't true. 

 

Stairwells are common (and a popular amenity) in HQs and they share the floor with the other executives.  

They are CEOs of a Fortune 500 company so  their offices are what you'd expect.

1 hour ago, nicker66 said:

 

This isn't true. 

 

Stairwells are common (and a popular amenity) in HQs and they share the floor with the other executives.  

They are CEOs of a Fortune 500 company so  their offices are what you'd expect.

I guess I just assumed it was only their offices up there since the president giving us the tour said something like "we can't go up that staircase, it's where Carl and Craig's offices are."  Suffice to say the Great American tower is very very nice, especially their top floors where the higher ups work.  

I meant Western and Southern in regards to the new HQ. 

Commissioners to vote on property transfer of iconic downtown skyscraper

By Mitchell Parton  – Intern, Cincinnati Business Courier

 

A project to convert one of the most recognizable office buildings in Greater Cincinnati into hundreds of apartments is moving forward.

The Cincinnati Planning Commission will vote Friday on whether to transfer ownership of the Union Central Life Insurance Co. Building to the city from Central Trust Tower Associates, and then re-convey ownership of the property to City Club Apartments LLC in order for the tower to receive Tax Increment Financing (TIF) under the Ohio Revised Code. 

 

MORE

Was about to post this, looks like this is really going to move forward.

 

Great news to get more life into 4th street and this is a really big investment.

 

Hopefully this helps in inject more life into these buildings too to help build up this street:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0997521,-84.51391,3a,75y,176.48h,124.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWRxpX_AU9aLAf71x1R2FSw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0998397,-84.5133045,3a,75y,350.79h,117.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYHFaaH1IpmO5RHtSrtYWLQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0993803,-84.5165518,3a,75y,162.09h,122.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shnkqhg9AsAXPXB6tGwr_RA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

I think these buildings are in the works:

 

Textile Building:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0994739,-84.5157373,3a,75y,227.82h,118.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1st2wT4o8rAYMZRtHM4QLufw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

Textile Building Cincinnati: US Bank lease ends in November this year, and another tenant lease ends in 2020, but no word yet from current owners on plans:

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/03/06/what-are-new-owners-planning-for-this-historical.html?ana=cincinnati_local12_bd

 

Ingalls Building:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.099975,-84.5126322,3a,75y,26.7h,133.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srSpSrNhhHWKG8aAHtXfqmQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

Ingalls Building Cincinnati: I believe people have talked that there is a lot of work going on in this building, are they making it into a hotel?

 

Fourth and Walnut Center:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1002121,-84.5110256,3a,75y,145.05h,136.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svWIybZDb1L2aSK55Wbq0-g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

Fourth and Walnut Center, Cincinnati: Awared $5 Million in Historic Tax Credits for Hilton Hotel Conversion, has anyone seen any activity of construction starting here?

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2018/12/12/downtown-building-gets-tax-credits-hotels/2288467002/

 

Tri-State Building Cincinnati:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1010557,-84.5113001,3a,90y,79.49h,126.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEwMTDFH1EMTrJzCTpB6DkA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

Couldn't find any recent news but I thought this project was a go for a hotel, any updates?

 

 

Tri-State building renovation is in progress. I believe that one will be a Kimpton hotel.

12 minutes ago, taestell said:

Tri-State building renovation is in progress. I believe that one will be a Kimpton hotel.

You are correct, however no progress at the Tri-State/Traction building in awhile.

Tons of work at the Jewelry Exchange building.

Ingalls building is still under going demo.

4th and Walnut is tied up in city permitting issues...

Not sure what is happening with the other 7th and Race building where Towne Place was proposed. 

1 hour ago, savadams13 said:

You are correct, however no progress at the Tri-State/Traction building in awhile.

Tons of work at the Jewelry Exchange building.

Ingalls building is still under going demo.

4th and Walnut is tied up in city permitting issues...

Not sure what is happening with the other 7th and Race building where Towne Place was proposed. 

Demo is being done right now but it's moving very slowly.  Like you said though the Jewlry Exchange building across the street is moving along nicely.  Pretty much all the framing is up and drywall is starting to be installed. 

2 hours ago, savadams13 said:

You are correct, however no progress at the Tri-State/Traction building in awhile.

Tons of work at the Jewelry Exchange building.

Ingalls building is still under going demo.

4th and Walnut is tied up in city permitting issues...

Not sure what is happening with the other 7th and Race building where Towne Place was proposed. 

 

 

Thanks for the updates. Bummer on 4th and Walnut, wonder what the issues are? Does it seem like they can get moved through?

53 minutes ago, IAGuy39 said:

 

 

Thanks for the updates. Bummer on 4th and Walnut, wonder what the issues are? Does it seem like they can get moved through?

Without going into alot of details it has to do with vertical circulation. The building being historical doesnt have a large cab elevator for a stretcher. Also there is only one interior stairwell in the tower and then a major exterior stairwell up the east side of the tower. Egress is a sticking point at the moment...

19 minutes ago, savadams13 said:

Without going into alot of details it has to do with vertical circulation. The building being historical doesnt have a large cab elevator for a stretcher. Also there is only one interior stairwell in the tower and then a major exterior stairwell up the east side of the tower. Egress is a sticking point at the moment...

Thanks for the details, do you know if they will be able to figure this out?

 

It's weird, understood you need to update building codes to current but if the building was still being used as it was you would think they could keep it that way/grandfathered in, but understand they need to update to current code.

City approves property transfer of iconic downtown skyscraper

 

 

The Cincinnati Planning Commission voted unanimously Friday morning to recommend a property transfer that will make way for a major redevelopment of an iconic downtown skyscraper.

 

The city will gain ownership of the Union Central Life Insurance Co. Building from Central Trust Tower Associates and re-convey ownership of the property to City Club Apartments LLC. This way, the tower will be eligible to receive Tax Increment Financing (TIF) under the Ohio Revised Code. 

 

The proposed project includes rehabilitating and adapting the 31-story tower at 9 W. Fourth St., also known as the Fourth & Vine Tower or Central Trust Tower, into a mixed-use space with ground floor retail, second floor commercial space and 262 residential apartments. 

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/06/07/city-approves-property-transfer-of-iconic-downtown.html

City set to OK deal to rehab PNC Tower; will contain affordable housing

 

Cincinnati City Council is expected to approve a deal on Wednesday that will result in a $103.5 million rehabilitation of an iconic piece of the city’s skyline, PNC Tower on Fourth Street, which will include a loan from the city, while the developer will offer some apartments at below market rate rents.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/06/24/city-set-to-ok-deal-to-rehab-pnc-tower-will.html

 

Will the PNC logo come off the building? 

And will the Central Trust Bank logo return?

 

32 minutes ago, ink said:

Will the PNC logo come off the building? 

 

Would love to see the Central Trust Bank logo return. Reminds me of the Lowe's hotel in Philly where they restored the historic PSFS sign on top:

 

 

38 minutes ago, taestell said:

And will the Central Trust Bank logo return?

 

I highly doubt it because PNC pays a pretty penny for the naming rights on the building. If your a landlord and your getting money just for a corporate name illuminated up top why get rid of it? 

Bring back the top!

 

It would look just fine without the PNC logo.

 

It will also be nice not to have a PNC Center and a PNC Tower. 

Is City Club taking over the entire tower or will some of the existing office tenants remain? The article mentioned that the building is currently 70% vacant but doesn't specify whether City Club will only be taking over that 70% or the entire building.

12 minutes ago, taestell said:

Is City Club taking over the entire tower or will some of the existing office tenants remain? The article mentioned that the building is currently 70% vacant but doesn't specify whether City Club will only be taking over that 70% or the entire building.

Originally the whole building was being converted to apartments, but i dont see why they couldnt do office tenants in the lower floor plates that are wider than the upper floors. 

I feel like the business courier article would have stated if office space was remaining in the building, but maybe not. I think it'd be a challenge to mix office and residential in this building. They'd have to have a separate elevator for the residential portion, unless they expect residents to be cool with anyone just gaining access to the residential floors. Wider floor plans on the lower floors could present challenges for residential conversion. But this is the same development team that did the low rise building next door, and that building has really large floor plates iirc, so they must have a similar strategy for the Central Trust Building's lower floors, I'd imagine.

It's possible that there is a continuous shaft in the center of the tower up to the point, and that shaft can be converted to a freight elevator or express elevator to upper floors.  The Woolworth Building in NYC is very similar and that's what was done there.  

City Club is officially the new owner of Fourth and Vine tower. 

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/09/05/exclusive-iconic-downtown-cincinnati-office-tower.html?iana=hpmvp_cinci_news_headline

 

Development will bring:

 

1. Mixed-use space with ground floor retail, second floor commercial space

 

2. 262 new residential apartments

 

3. Focus on international design, boutique hotel style amenities, time saving services, fiber technologies and wellness.

 

Great, great news! Hopefully this translates to a CBD that is much more active after the afternoon workers head home to the burbs.

Yes, great news!! Also adding to this is the 4th and Race project, and the other projects on that 4th Street Corridor, really starting to fill in now!