27 minutes ago, Troeros2 said:

I get that. But when Galla park can be tried to be shut down as a public nuisance but the 20 year history of violence that has occurred at that shell is perfectly allowed is what really frustrates me.

 

It’s like the entire community, including the city of Cincinnati and 3CDC turn a blind eye to what is occurring at that shell and near that block.

 

Im frustrated because I know that more can be done in the mean time until the rest of otr is developed but nothing is. It’s just a total blind eye like nothing is wrong when people are being harassed when they get gas and experience some sort of outsider violence at that shell on a near daily basis. 

 

It seems like an apples to oranges comparison honestly. Galla Park was allegedly allowing and encouraging illegal behavior. Serving drinks to underage people, for example. Shell is just existing and people are doing illicit things nearby. Of course, if you're an employee at the Shell you're not going to put yourself at risk by trying to confront the drug dealers. It would be different if the Shell was actively encouraging the illegal activity. As far as I know, that's not the situation. And FWIW, the Shell looks shady and I know that crime does occur there. But I've filled up there a lot and never had a negative experience. I think, to a certain extent, there's a sense among white suburbanites that it is more dangerous than it is because a lot of young black people hang out around it.

No it's definitely dangerous at night.  I refuse to ever go there when the sun goes down because it's such a hell hole.  During the day it's fine and you might get hit up by a bum asking for money.  Go at night and you're at risk for much more then that. 

I think the old vine street Kroger in otr is a good example. 
 

Back in the day that Kroger was always home to crime in that parking lot, as well as inside the store.

 

The otr Kroger looked like trash and I think there is a correlation between people causing crime in a place that looks rough and dilapidated versus a fancy location like the court street Kroger. This goes for parks as well. There was way more crime at Washington park when it was dingy over uncared for.  
 

Then obviously 3cdc struck a deal with Kroger to build the new court street Kroger and voila like magic the crime disappeared.

 

3cdc needs to partner with the city and needs to either convince the owner of the shell to upgraded shell that you see in the suburbs that is much more brighter lit and has accessible Dunkin’ Donuts drive thru /subway inside, or allow 3cdc to buy the shell station and strike a deal where udf could transition into that space

Edited June 11, 20214 yr by Troeros2

7 minutes ago, Troeros2 said:

Then obviously 3cdc struck a deal with Kroger to build the new court street Kroger and voila like magic the crime disappeared.

 

It didn't disappear. It just moved to somewhere else. 

 

8 minutes ago, Troeros2 said:

3cdc needs to partner with the city and needs to either convince the owner of the shell to upgraded shell that you see in the suburbs that is much more brighter lit and has accessible Dunkin’ Donuts drive thru /subway inside, or allow 3cdc to buy the shell station and strike a deal where udf could transition into that space

 

This doesn't seem like a good idea since, long-term, this location should be something much more productive than a gas station. I would imagine if 3CDC or the city have long term goals for this location it would be a large mixed-use development, not an auto-oriented space.

43 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

 

It seems like an apples to oranges comparison honestly. Galla Park was allegedly allowing and encouraging illegal behavior. Serving drinks to underage people, for example. Shell is just existing and people are doing illicit things nearby. Of course, if you're an employee at the Shell you're not going to put yourself at risk by trying to confront the drug dealers. It would be different if the Shell was actively encouraging the illegal activity. As far as I know, that's not the situation. And FWIW, the Shell looks shady and I know that crime does occur there. But I've filled up there a lot and never had a negative experience. I think, to a certain extent, there's a sense among white suburbanites that it is more dangerous than it is because a lot of young black people hang out around it.

 

People think it's dangerous because the police get called to an emergency there 1000 times per year, not because there happen to be black people around.

 

The lighting/fencing may have cut down on that a bit over the last couple years but it still isn't remotely safe. It's one of the most crime-ridden single addresses in the city.

 

 

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, Ram23 said:

 

People think it's dangerous because the police get called to an emergency there 1000 times per year, not because there happen to be black people around.

 

The lighting/fencing may have cut down on that a bit over the last couple years but it still isn't remotely safe. It's one of the most crime-ridden single addresses in the city.

 

 

 

 

 

And not 1 public nuisance issued. 
 

It’s just utterly ridiculous.

 

The owner is 100 percent responsible. This is taking place on shells land territory. Any other business would’ve been shut down decades ago.

Maybe because its a gas station and its not that hard to avoid going there.  If you live down here you likely a. don't drive that much or b. commute and get gas somewhere else.  I agree its not great but if really wanted to change things just dont go.

21 minutes ago, Traveler Joe said:

Maybe because its a gas station and its not that hard to avoid going there.  If you live down here you likely a. don't drive that much or b. commute and get gas somewhere else.  I agree its not great but if really wanted to change things just dont go.

Yes but there are many out of towners renting Airbnb’s trying to explore otr and our city. Many away fans for fcc matches book hotels and Airbnb’s near otr as well. 
 

So your telling me if a tourist wants to visit otr/downtown and needs gas we should just say hey feel safe in the rest of our city, but pleas avoid our community  gas station when it gets dark because there is a high chance you might be a victim or witness a crime in front of you and your family. 
 

This is such a small city thinking mentality. Otr has made such great strides in the past decade and we are finally luring people, not just from greater Cincinnati but from different states as well. These people drive cars and will need gas..but your saying we should just tell them to ignore the shell and turn a blind eye to the crime but feel comfortable during the trip in otr?

 

 

18 minutes ago, Troeros2 said:

This is such a small city thinking mentality.

 

IDK. I visit my cousin in Chicago, and whenever I don't drive, she tells me to get off at a specific L stop because the other one is pretty sketchy. They're almost equidistant, but it's just a heads up to people unfamiliar with the area. This isn't some small city mentality. 

 

I'm not arguing against it getting shut down eventually, but it needs to be well planned or else it's going to make other areas of the neighborhood worse. I would personally rather have one bad spot than a bunch of scattered bad spots throughout the neighborhood (we currently have like 3 or so areas I avoid when it gets dark). I wouldn't want more places interrupted because we tried to shut down the Shell Station. It needs to be well planned.

1 hour ago, Troeros2 said:

drive thru 

please not in downtown.

I feel that although the shell station is bad. I think the annoyances from vehicles is worse. I don’t know if there’s a term for what I’m trying to describe broadly, but it’s the motorcycles redlining, atvs, dirt bikes, and cars with deafening external speakers. 
 

I don’t know how many times I’ve been walking or driving in Cincinnati and had plug my ears or even go a different route. Just to avoid damaging my ears or avoid hitting someone on a dirt bike running through lights. 

I hope it gets cleaned up but I'd be disappointed if it were no longer a gas station. It's a super convenient location to get gas. And with how busy the pumps always are, obviously a lot of people use it. 

6 hours ago, Troeros2 said:

This is such a small city thinking mentality. Otr has made such great strides in the past decade and we are finally luring people, not just from greater Cincinnati but from different states as well. These people drive cars and will need gas..but your saying we should just tell them to ignore the shell and turn a blind eye to the crime but feel comfortable during the trip in otr?

Honestly, I only care about tourists to the extent that they bring our city/county money, and I don't think that gas station will stop tourists from coming.  Fixing crime is much more important than catering to the few hundred FCC tourists that stay in OTR rather than decide to just push them into a different resident's block.

7 hours ago, Troeros2 said:

Yes but there are many out of towners renting Airbnb’s trying to explore otr and our city. Many away fans for fcc matches book hotels and Airbnb’s near otr as well. 

 

 

 

I don't think I'd miss the hordes of bachelorette parties who can't parallel park descending to the basin.  Do you want a neighborhood for the people who live there? Or for the people who cosplay an urban life one night a week?

Tear it down!  Tear it down!  And bonjour...

 

Does anyone know if Liberty and Elm is still going forward? Seems like the project has gone quiet again.

7 minutes ago, westcoast323 said:

Does anyone know if Liberty and Elm is still going forward? Seems like the project has gone quiet again.

It is. It’s suppose to start sometime this month. 

1 hour ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

It is. It’s suppose to start sometime this month. 

Glad to hear that. I feel like between this proposal and the last proposal this site has been in hiatus for over 6 years.

On 6/11/2021 at 10:17 PM, Traveler Joe said:

 

I don't think I'd miss the hordes of bachelorette parties who can't parallel park descending to the basin.  Do you want a neighborhood for the people who live there? Or for the people who cosplay an urban life one night a week?

 

If we want businesses to remain viable in the neighborhood, OTR needs the tourism traffic. Those businesses just aren't going to make it on OTR residents alone. At this point OTR has to be one of the largest tourist destinations in all of Cincinnati. I think there is a stat that Washington Park gets like 3 Million+ visitors/year.

1 hour ago, d_burnham said:

 

If we want businesses to remain viable in the neighborhood, OTR needs the tourism traffic. Those businesses just aren't going to make it on OTR residents alone. At this point OTR has to be one of the largest tourist destinations in all of Cincinnati. I think there is a stat that Washington Park gets like 3 Million+ visitors/year.

I think residents of otr are very stubborn on keeping it a residential neighborhood. 
 

The reality is definitely in the middle. I think it’s no doubt that the city and 3cdc wants otr to not just be a destination for Cincinnati suburbanites but also for people all over the Midwest. 
 

Otr alone has more restaurants and bars than any of Cincinnati 52 neighborhoods and if you continue the current trajectory of empty lots and vacant store fronts that will hopefully one day become activated again you will eventually triple of quadruple the amount of restaurants and bars. 
 

These restaurants and bars obviously can’t survive on catering to residents alone. The goal is to make otr a destination and the residents that live there are just part of that equation. 

36 minutes ago, Troeros2 said:

I think residents of otr are very stubborn on keeping it a residential neighborhood. 
 

The reality is definitely in the middle. I think it’s no doubt that the city and 3cdc wants otr to not just be a destination for Cincinnati suburbanites but also for people all over the Midwest. 
 

Otr alone has more restaurants and bars than any of Cincinnati 52 neighborhoods and if you continue the current trajectory of empty lots and vacant store fronts that will hopefully one day become activated again you will eventually triple of quadruple the amount of restaurants and bars. 
 

These restaurants and bars obviously can’t survive on catering to residents alone. The goal is to make otr a destination and the residents that live there are just part of that equation. 

Of course it isn't all of one or the other, but I guarantee you the OTR businesses would prefer a consistent base of people rather than the wild swings that can come from being more focused on tourism (slow winters, bad Cinci publicity/lack of events, pandemics).

Edited June 14, 20214 yr by 10albersa

1 hour ago, 10albersa said:

Of course it isn't all of one or the other, but I guarantee you the OTR businesses would prefer a consistent base of people rather than the wild swings that can come from being more focused on tourism (slow winters, bad Cinci publicity/lack of events, pandemics).

It’s definitely a balance between the two. You need both residents for that consistent business but also the tourist business that helps elevate your business and allows the business owner to make on a busy weekend a month worth of rent. 

4 hours ago, d_burnham said:

 

If we want businesses to remain viable in the neighborhood, OTR needs the tourism traffic. Those businesses just aren't going to make it on OTR residents alone. At this point OTR has to be one of the largest tourist destinations in all of Cincinnati. I think there is a stat that Washington Park gets like 3 Million+ visitors/year.

 

And yet, the existence of the Shell has not kept OTR from becoming a hotbed of tourist activity. 

38 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

 

And yet, the existence of the Shell has not kept OTR from becoming a hotbed of tourist activity. 

And yet, OTR isn't even half way re-developed.  If a developer wants to convince someone to buy a $400+k condo around Liberty and Vine, they might want to clean up this mess of a gas station.  

2 hours ago, Cincy513 said:

And yet, OTR isn't even half way re-developed.  If a developer wants to convince someone to buy a $400+k condo around Liberty and Vine, they might want to clean up this mess of a gas station.  

 

I'm very optimistic that the Shell station itself will be redeveloped in the next decade.

I've been trying to remember where I've gotten gas on my past vacations and honestly I have no recollection of any of them.  And while the Shell station is for sure a place with a lot of issues its not like these same issues don't occur all over the neighborhood anyway.  Yes you might see some crazy things go down there but you might see that anywhere else in the neighborhood, outside of a few blocks of Vine.

56 minutes ago, Traveler Joe said:

I've been trying to remember where I've gotten gas on my past vacations and honestly I have no recollection of any of them.  And while the Shell station is for sure a place with a lot of issues its not like these same issues don't occur all over the neighborhood anyway.  Yes you might see some crazy things go down there but you might see that anywhere else in the neighborhood, outside of a few blocks of Vine.

the shell is a summary of what problems still exist with otr.

 

3cdc started working in otr around 2007-2009?  It’s been roughly 12-14 years and Otr is probably only 30-35 percent rehabbed. There is still an incredible amount of crime that happens on a daily basis in otr and unfortunately there are still streets that you probably don’t want to be caught dead walking in the middle of the night on in otr.

 

Otr isn’t that big, so it’s frustrating that so much time has passed and we are still so far away from what otr could really be.

 

Regardless, I’m still happy with how far we’ve come with otr and I hope that progress will accelerate into the rest of south of liberty and north of liberty in the near future. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

The rehabbed property at 1706 elm street, north of Liberty mind you, is going for a whopping 900k on Zillow. 
 

3 bedrooms so a somewhat decent sized property, but wow, that has to be a record for asking price for a north of liberty otr property. 
 

looking at Zillow in general north of liberty property is going way up...the majority of the rehabbed homes are going for at least 500k and up. That’s nuts! 

I swear otr residents and otr community council always need to find something to be disgruntled about. 
 

https://www.wcpo.com/news/transportation-development/move-up-cincinnati/many-pandemic-fixes-had-unintended-consequences-streateries-were-one-of-them

21 minutes ago, Troeros2 said:

I swear otr residents and otr community council always need to find something to be disgruntled about. 
 

https://www.wcpo.com/news/transportation-development/move-up-cincinnati/many-pandemic-fixes-had-unintended-consequences-streateries-were-one-of-them

While a lot of the concerns raised in the article are overblown, there is a real issue with equitable sidewalk access. Try to walk two abreast, push a stroller, carry groceries, help your elderly parents walk, or navigate a wheelchair or mobility scooter through many of the narrow spaces created by outdoor seating (even before the streeteries). It is just about impossible at times, even without crowds of people. Throw in utility poles, planters, street trees, trash cans, and cars/trucks parking/driving illegally and our sidewalks just aren't able to function much of the time. The answer for this should be to take back street space for pedestrians and reduce lanes, remove parking, etc but articles like this don't get to the root of the issue, just a scattershot list of complaints. 

Edited June 17, 20213 yr by mcmicken

52 minutes ago, Troeros2 said:

I swear otr residents and otr community council always need to find something to be disgruntled about. 
 

https://www.wcpo.com/news/transportation-development/move-up-cincinnati/many-pandemic-fixes-had-unintended-consequences-streateries-were-one-of-them

This is pretty egregious ‘both sides’ journalism: let’s take something that’s popular with almost everybody, find a few people who are against it, and frame it as controversial.

 

I do sympathize with the wheel chair user but everything else is complete nonsense. I just have to wonder how awful some people are at finding parking. I work in OTR and park there every single day and never have to drive more than a block to find a spot.

7 minutes ago, Guy23 said:

This is pretty egregious ‘both sides’ journalism: let’s take something that’s popular with almost everybody, find a few people who are against it, and frame it as controversial.

 

I do sympathize with the wheel chair user but everything else is complete nonsense. I just have to wonder how awful some people are at finding parking. I work in OTR and park there every single day and never have to drive more than a block to find a spot.

Maybe they've improved it now, but we walked around OTR a month ago and the streateries were very much in the way if there were people walking in both directions on the sidewalk.  Don't get me wrong, I love that we have these and they took some space away from cars, but it was frustrating walking on the sidewalk and we ended up walking in the street multiple times.

I was pretty impressed recently with the streeteries on Vine and Main. There seems to be plenty of room for them now that we took over what was previously parking. We were still creating streeteries before the pandemic, but almost all of them simply took over half of the sidewalk and minimized the amount of sidewalk space for pedestrians.

Someone's gotten hundreds of dollars in fines for expired parking meters?  Maybe download the parking app so you can add time on your phone.  Or just park in one of the multiple garages.  Another guy can't drop his mom off right infront of his front door?  Maybe don't live in OTR then.  And OTRCC? No one takes you seriously because you complain about every single development that is brought up in your neighborhood.  Maybe if you weren't completely unwilling to work with anyone people would start taking you seriously.  

 

What a bunch of idiotic complaints in a completely pointless article. 

Edited June 17, 20213 yr by Cincy513

My favorite is the guy that just moved into the city in April and then is surprised that there are city noises and other people around. Like dude, if you don't want to be around other people or hear noises then don't live in a city. If you expect to be able to park right in front of your house, don't live in a city. If you can't deal with narrow streets and on-street parking, don't live in a city.

If there is truly concerns about pedestrian access through these street eateries than the main artery streets should just become European style woonerfs.

 

It works in Europe and there population is substantially older than ours and somehow they don’t have to worry about how to find parking on their block. 

45 minutes ago, Troeros2 said:

If there is truly concerns about pedestrian access through these street eateries than the main artery streets should just become European style woonerfs.

 

It works in Europe and there population is substantially older than ours and somehow they don’t have to worry about how to find parking on their block. 

 

The Barcelona "Superblock" concept is probably more appropriate refence point. Woonerfs seem to be more applicable to residential sides streets, not arterials or collectors.

https://www.fox19.com/2021/06/20/male-shot-otr/?fbclid=IwAR2I1ZdynU5Ghkg_ne0SIhbIPWZuXcpxXrm_nGSPfYw1UID0mU0-91Ww1AE
 

Not a good look unfortunately. Man shot on 13th and main in broad day light. 
 

This year has been really rough with violence in otr and Cincinnati in general. 
 

Just sucks for families out enjoying their afternoon and have to witness violence like this. 
 

At some point you have to wonder how these criminals can be so dumb to commit crimes in south of liberty where there are surveillance cameras on every street corner. 

1 hour ago, Troeros2 said:

https://www.fox19.com/2021/06/20/male-shot-otr/?fbclid=IwAR2I1ZdynU5Ghkg_ne0SIhbIPWZuXcpxXrm_nGSPfYw1UID0mU0-91Ww1AE
 

Not a good look unfortunately. Man shot on 13th and main in broad day light. 
 

This year has been really rough with violence in otr and Cincinnati in general. 
 

Just sucks for families out enjoying their afternoon and have to witness violence like this. 
 

At some point you have to wonder how these criminals can be so dumb to commit crimes in south of liberty where there are surveillance cameras on every street corner. 

I, for one, would be relieved if you would tone down all the fear-mongering  and histrionics you  bring to this forum. It's getting to the point where I don't want to open a thread if I see that big T next to it. This is a friendly opinion/suggestion. I'm not attempting to influence policy.

@Troeros2if you want to post about crime, post in the Cincinnati crime topic. This topic is about development in OTR, not crime.

 

Also, no mention about how bad you feel for the 14 year old boy who was shot, but you're quick to express condolences to the potential witnesses. Weird priorities IMO.

I know this is a fake second story and it will be a restaurant/bar but I really like the brick detail and quality of this infill project at Ziegler park. It looks like the second story is tall enough that it could be filled in the future (possibly) and in the meantime it really anchors the corner well. One of the few times the historic board added height to a project and it’s very successful IMO.

8 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

I know this is a fake second story and it will be a restaurant/bar but I really like the brick detail and quality of this infill project at Ziegler park. It looks like the second story is tall enough that it could be filled in the future (possibly) and in the meantime it really anchors the corner well. One of the few times the historic board added height to a project and it’s very successful IMO.

Agreed! I like it a lot. That little bit of texture with the brick “cornice” makes a dramatic difference with the overall feeling of the building. If that design had all flat brick, it would look way worse. 

Does this building have a defined end user or will it be for lease? 

The Wilkomen projects from Model and 3cdc have been killing it with their design infill.

 

All of them have that nice brick facade with their scattered infill projects.

 

I really hope this is the new trend for 3cdc and we will see this type of infill quality from now on. 

Last chance to email city council expressing your support to allocate money to save the first Lutheran church bell tower. The budget hearing later today (Wednesday) which has 1 million dollars potentially allocated for the first Lutheran church bell tower will be voted upon Wednesday afternoon. 

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQYWGQXh0Bd/?utm_medium=copy_link

At 1713 Main St (the triangular parcel bound by Main/Peete/Antique), the old garages were recently torn down (streetview), which implies construction is moving ahead on the new infill residence. This project went before HCB on Nov 9, 2020... not sure if designs have been updated/revised since then: https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/november-9-2020-staff-report-and-attachments/ 

 

 

 

 

The church at 1419 Elm Street is proposed to be renovated into 4 apartments. The Rhine Group is developing this project, and they are applying for Historic Tax Credits. 

 

Detailed plans in the latest HCB packet, starting on page 24: https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/june-21-2021-case-materials-and-staff-report/

City council approved allocating 1 million dollars for the first Lutheran church bell tower!

1 hour ago, Troeros2 said:

City council approved allocating 1 million dollars for the first Lutheran church bell tower!

Uh city council approved a motion to find 500k from the 2021 surplus budget.Sounds like the cost was brought down and most of the funding has been raised.

 

https://cincinnatioh.legistar.com/MeetingDetail.aspx?ID=867383&GUID=3D97C584-4DEA-41D7-BC92-3879B2652528&Options=info&fbclid=IwAR1vEuMWtUkXM1xxMAmxli-yi5ZDbl2rJfsMKJ9aE2pOCqS1CjtAqStIHMM

 

Looks like maybe bye bye Bell Tower.Sounds as if funds are not secured in 30 days its demolition and the Bell tolls no more.Time get the golden goose out.

 

https://m.facebook.com/flccincy/photos/a.265865420184952/3743492539088872/?type=3&source=48