8 minutes ago, OliverHazardPerry said:

If the owners of the Shell can't make money on the shortened hours, I'm not going to be upset when the gas station closes and doesn't get replaced. However, it does serve a legitimate purpose in the neighborhood during the day. The vast majority of the problems here happen after dark so I think that closing at sunset will go a long way. I live pretty close to the Shell, so it will be interesting to see the effect over the next few weeks.

 

Would love to see the whole property redeveloped someday though, there are so many better uses for that huge parcel of land.

even during the day there are problems. Every time I’ve been there in the day it’s just non stop hassling and harassment. 
 

This occurred to my friend, a few years back, and he went to fill up at that early, around 9am, on weekday. 
 

Some person came up to him asking him for money, he politely declined…the guy walks away turns around with a pocket knife..my friend still declines and the guy begins charging him.

 

Luckily he is military so he was able to side swipe the guy and pin him to the ground in 10 seconds and make the person regret who he was messing with…

 

problem with that shell is too much to sum for words. I would argue it’s never safe to stop there. You legit don’t know who you will run into there. It’s a genuine cess pool that contains the very worst elements of otr that unfortunately still exist today.

 

It needs to be torn down for the good of the community. 
 

One might argue that will push crime to a different location in otr, but I seriously doubt either Grant and Findlay Playground being redeveloped there are that many places left for these trouble causing people to run to. 

Edited July 16, 20213 yr by Troeros2

I remember when I was little we were driving in DT Columbus and it struck me for the first time that there weren't many gas stations Downtown (at that time I think there were two, now there is one). I was all like, "What if we run out of gas????" freaking out like we were in Death Valley or something. Dad goes "There's gas right on the other side of the freeway"

Would it be expensive to dig out the gas pipes and redevelop the land for a mixed use development ?

 

I’m seeing this occur all over the suburbs now with speedways or bp shutting down and then digging out the pipes and tearing down the pumps…so I imagine it can’t be too crazy cost wise

1 minute ago, Troeros2 said:

Would it be expensive to dig out the gas pipes and redevelop the land for a mixed use development ?

 

I’m seeing this occur all over the suburbs now with speedways or bp shutting down and then digging out the pipes and tearing down the pumps…so I imagine it can’t be too crazy cost wise

 

The problem with gas stations is that they can end up polluting the soil with leaks from the storage tanks. Which is expensive to abate and replace with clean fill.

There are too many abandoned buildings and empty lots in the surrounding area without those remediation costs that will be cheaper to develop first. I'm guessing the Shell site will have to be acquired by 3CDC in order for the site use to change within the next decade.

maybe consider using part of the parking, create a 24/7 police sub-station and a set of fast charge battery stations.

In the future, most urban parking garages will have electric vehicle charging built in, so there isn’t really a need for gas station-like “charging stations” other than superchargers along interstate highways, which can be far from urban areas.

Many people in far flung suburbs live miles and miles from the nearest gas station and drive a lot more. They get by just fine.

2 hours ago, Troeros2 said:

Would it be expensive to dig out the gas pipes and redevelop the land for a mixed use development ?

 

I’m seeing this occur all over the suburbs now with speedways or bp shutting down and then digging out the pipes and tearing down the pumps…so I imagine it can’t be too crazy cost wise

 

It isn't cheap to remove underground storage tanks, but for this site I doubt it is prohibitive. Assuming the price of the land that Shell sits on is worth near or above 7 figures, the cost to remove the USTs would simply eat away at the proceeds for the seller. Since it's an active gas station, the tanks are maintained and constantly monitored for leaks, so costs shouldn't spiral out of control like they can when USTs have been leaking or when you find a UST you didn't know was there.

 

The real problems occur when you find a tank that is very old and was abandoned and/or is otherwise not properly documented. You sometimes see this where a filling station existed in the early days of automobiles, but was torn down and redeveloped in the 40s, 50s, etc.

3 hours ago, taestell said:

In the future, most urban parking garages will have electric vehicle charging built in, so there isn’t really a need for gas station-like “charging stations” other than superchargers along interstate highways, which can be far from urban areas.

i can appreciate your observations. but the idea was to put police presence on sight and open opportunities for business in the future. You cant predict the future or when it will get here. Every tom d*ck and harry drives a gigantic 50,000 dollar 4x4 truck  which gets about 17 miles per galloon. Those trucks will still be around for 2o more years. there maybe another white flight exodus or maybe temperatures rise so much that only the poor live in the inner city. who knows how it will all pan out. 

https://www.wlwt.com/article/over-the-rhines-only-gas-station-now-closing-at-9-pm-due-to-dangerous-conditions/37052558
 

Not development news but thought I’d post it since we were talking about the redevelopment of the gas station. 

15 minutes ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

https://www.wlwt.com/article/over-the-rhines-only-gas-station-now-closing-at-9-pm-due-to-dangerous-conditions/37052558
 

Not development news but thought I’d post it since we were talking about the redevelopment of the gas station. 

The resident was mentioning about how unlit so many of the otr streets are at night…

 

out of curiosity why is that?  Is there a problem with the street grid lights in certain parts of otr? 
 

I know when 3cdc takes helm of a certain portion of otr, you get the luxury treatment with really well lit areas and no over hanging tower poles.

 

If it’s the city responsibility for the rest of otr to take care of lighting why aren’t they taking care of this issue?

 

There are some legit pitch black streets, so much so in north of liberty. 
 

Is the city that broke that they can’t just afford to repair the lighting? I thought the city had quite the cushion of funds after the Biden stimulus package. 

There’s fencing up around the vacant lot on the NW intersection of Liberty and Sycamore. Anyone know what’s planned there?

6 hours ago, Guy23 said:

There’s fencing up around the vacant lot on the NW intersection of Liberty and Sycamore. Anyone know what’s planned there?

Is that the Jose Garcia designed building? I remember seeing it as an item for the hcb to approve but never actually saw it any of the packets…I could also be thinking of the wrong lot. 

22 hours ago, Troeros2 said:

The resident was mentioning about how unlit so many of the otr streets are at night…

 

out of curiosity why is that?  Is there a problem with the street grid lights in certain parts of otr? 
 

I know when 3cdc takes helm of a certain portion of otr, you get the luxury treatment with really well lit areas and no over hanging tower poles.

 

If it’s the city responsibility for the rest of otr to take care of lighting why aren’t they taking care of this issue?

 

There are some legit pitch black streets, so much so in north of liberty. 
 

Is the city that broke that they can’t just afford to repair the lighting? I thought the city had quite the cushion of funds after the Biden stimulus package. 

Cincinnati is a "complaint driven city." Until you accept that you will be puzzled and frustrated. I could put up a Ferris Wheel in my front yard and charge admission to unaccompanied minors and operate until someone complains.The City would never bother me.

 

If you want the lights to go on, you have to get a pole number (and a type of pole -wood or metal) and put in a complaint. Then they are Johnny on the Spot. No complaint? It will be dark for years. The opposite of this is NYC where you can complain a thousand times and no one will help. but, if you have a rubber doormat on the sidewalk in front of your place an inspector will come along and write you a $300 ticket.

Edited July 18, 20213 yr by 1400 Sycamore
spelling - thank the CPS

2 hours ago, 1400 Sycamore said:

Cincinnati is a "complaint driven city." Until you accept that you will be puzzled and frustrated. I could put up a Ferris Wheel in my front yard and charge admission to unaccompanied minors and operate until someone complains.The City would never bother me.

 

If you want the lights to go on, you have to get a pole number (and a type of pole -wood or metal) and put in a complaint. Then they are Johnny on the Spot. No complaint? It will be dark for years. The opposite of this is NYC where you can complain a thousand times and no one will help. but, if you have a rubber doormat on the sidewalk in front of your place an inspector will come along and write you a $300 ticket.

I’m surprised they have traffic enforcement but don’t have light enforcement task force. You would think lighting is just as important to the urban core than if someone parked in a disabled parking spot illegally. 

4 hours ago, Troeros2 said:

I’m surprised they have traffic enforcement but don’t have light enforcement task force. You would think lighting is just as important to the urban core than if someone parked in a disabled parking spot illegally. 

Then who does the city fine? The city?

8 hours ago, Troeros2 said:

I’m surprised they have traffic enforcement but don’t have light enforcement task force. You would think lighting is just as important to the urban core than if someone parked in a disabled parking spot illegally. 

There is no "traffic enforcement other than a few speed trap days on a couple of spots around town. Other than that you can ignore traffic control devices with impunity. The CPD isn't writing tickets. Because, when they stop a car for traffic they have to do a mountain of race related paperwork to show it is not a DWB stop. Thank the Collaborative.

 

But, Parking Enforcement" is a profit center. The boys there can write about $1000 per hour in parking tickets without even trying. Maybe one of the biggest non tax revenue streams for the City.

 

And, again, if the disabled parking is on their route, they write it. Other than that, only a complaint will do.

Edited July 19, 20213 yr by 1400 Sycamore
Freudian slip.

Yeah, there is virtually no traffic enforcement in the city. People speed excessively on city streets and have become more blatant about running red lights, and CPD does not care. (I sat on Main Street for about 2 hours on July 4 and personally saw about 8 vehicles run red lights.) And thanks to COAST, the city cannot install red light cameras to automatically enforce the law and ticket red light runners.

 

Parking enforcement, on the other hand, is a high priority for the city ever since Cranley turned it into a profit center and dramatically cranked up parking meter rates and reduced free parking hours in the urban core.

I disagree with COAST on pretty much everything, but on the red light camera issue I think they are correct. There have been traffic studies that show that intersections with red light cameras actually increase the number of accidents due to people slamming on their brakes. Also, the idea that you can get a ticket without an actual police officer present strikes me as going against your right to cross-examine your accuser in court. How do they prove that you were driving the car? Would the city be required to provide camera calibration records in order to prove that the machine was functioning correctly before a ticket was enforced? 

 

I agree reckless driving is a problem, but we ultimately solve this problem by putting in traffic calming/Vision Zero measures like the speed humps going in on Main and Vine, road diets, etc. And traffic enforcement on the highways should be left to the state Highway Patrol. CPD is stretched thin already and has much bigger crime problems to focus on. 

 

Another option is to create a traffic enforcement division (like parking enforcement) separate from the police department.

 

Anyways, this is going off topic from OTR development news.

Jacob Trevino is partnering with a local video game developer to open 3 new bars. The first bar will be at 1834 race street in otr and will be a comic book and cock tail lounge. 
 

 

1 hour ago, Troeros2 said:

...a local video game developer...
 

 

 

Chris Bergman

21 hours ago, OliverHazardPerry said:

I disagree with COAST on pretty much everything, but on the red light camera issue I think they are correct. There have been traffic studies that show that intersections with red light cameras actually increase the number of accidents due to people slamming on their brakes.

 

Just a note...

 

"An IIHS study found that cameras reduced the fatal red light running crash rate of large cities by 21 percent and the rate of all types of fatal crashes at signalized intersections by 14 percent."

https://www.iihs.org/topics/red-light-running#:~:text=An IIHS study found that,Cameras don't violate privacy.

 

The study (singular) that I believe you are referring to showed that sudden stop crashes were higher when there were red light cameras, but that angular accidents were also much lower at lights with cameras. Since angular accidents are much more likely to be fatal, the tradeoff is that with the cameras you have more fender benders but much fewer deadly accidents.

Imagination Alley is finally showing real progress after being closed for ever and the new raised crosswalk is lined up with  the park. Should be nice. 

 

Are they building a new street eatery by the Mercer? Couldn’t tell by their ig page but it seemed like it…

"The study (singular) that I believe you are referring to showed that sudden stop crashes were higher when there were red light cameras, but that angular accidents were also much lower at lights with cameras. Since angular accidents are much more likely to be fatal, the tradeoff is that with the cameras you have more fender benders but much fewer deadly accidents."

 

Excellent find, thank you for the correction! A reduction in fatal crashes is a good tradeoff for an increase in fender benders.

 

Either way, red light cameras aren't coming back any time soon within Cincinnati, they're currently banned via charter amendment. And the city would have to get voter approval to allow them again.

Edited July 20, 20213 yr by OliverHazardPerry

53 minutes ago, Troeros2 said:

Are they building a new street eatery by the Mercer? Couldn’t tell by their ig page but it seemed like it…

They are building the raised crosswalk attached to the existing bumpout and there are new retractable shade canopies over the outdoor seating but no, it's not being physically expanded from what was already there. 

10 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

They are building the raised crosswalk attached to the existing bumpout and there are new retractable shade canopies over the outdoor seating but no, it's not being physically expanded from what was already there. 

oh I see..does this city plan on building more street eateries?

8 hours ago, Troeros2 said:

oh I see..does this city plan on building more street eateries?

Yes. There are new funds to pay for additional streeteries, but now that COVID emergency declarations have been lifted certain hoops have to be jumped through in order to get there. Personally, I have everything ready to go for my streetery but because my business exists within 100ft of a residential zone, I now have to submit a bunch of paperwork to go before the historic conservation board in mid September in order to get approved. So, ultimately, I will end up losing two months of prime outside seating since they can no longer bypass certain ordinances. You'll see more slowly popping up over the next few months. 

8 hours ago, Happenstance said:

Yes. There are new funds to pay for additional streeteries, but now that COVID emergency declarations have been lifted certain hoops have to be jumped through in order to get there. Personally, I have everything ready to go for my streetery but because my business exists within 100ft of a residential zone, I now have to submit a bunch of paperwork to go before the historic conservation board in mid September in order to get approved. So, ultimately, I will end up losing two months of prime outside seating since they can no longer bypass certain ordinances. You'll see more slowly popping up over the next few months. 

Does anyone know what will happen to them in the winter months? Are they allowed to add heated tents on those spaces? 

19 hours ago, DEPACincy said:

The study (singular) that I believe you are referring to showed that sudden stop crashes were higher when there were red light cameras, but that angular accidents were also much lower at lights with cameras. Since angular accidents are much more likely to be fatal, the tradeoff is that with the cameras you have more fender benders but much fewer deadly accidents.

I also wonder (I'm sure there's data somewhere out there) if the increase in fender benders eventually tapers off after people get used to not pushing red lights. Because the reality is that if you had to slam on our brakes to stop for a light that was changing, you were either a) speeding or, more importantly to the point I'm making b) didn't actually need to stop because you were too close to the intersection when the light turned.

58 minutes ago, jmicha said:

I also wonder (I'm sure there's data somewhere out there) if the increase in fender benders eventually tapers off after people get used to not pushing red lights. Because the reality is that if you had to slam on our brakes to stop for a light that was changing, you were either a) speeding or, more importantly to the point I'm making b) didn't actually need to stop because you were too close to the intersection when the light turned.

 

Yea, I think this is a very good point that I never considered.

1 hour ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

Does anyone know what will happen to them in the winter months? Are they allowed to add heated tents on those spaces? 

My understanding is that they will remain in place year-round, and I can't imagine why heated tents would be prohibited in the winter. 

The yellow/red light delay is so long no one could ever have a T Bone accident from anything other than a blatant red light disregard. When I go through a yellow (which I always do) I am half a block past the light before traffic starts to move the other direction. On the other hand, every weeny will be slamming on their brakes to avoid a ticket creating more whip lash insurance fraud. There is no trade off. Red light cameras are a menace.

Edited July 21, 20213 yr by 1400 Sycamore

I get the desire to have heated tents, but I do think it's going to be really ugly to have a bunch of tents on the streets for 4 months of the year.

 

Hopefully they just go forward with heat lamps, and maybe wind screens. We'll see what happens in November/December, though.

19 hours ago, OliverHazardPerry said:

"The study (singular) that I believe you are referring to showed that sudden stop crashes were higher when there were red light cameras, but that angular accidents were also much lower at lights with cameras. Since angular accidents are much more likely to be fatal, the tradeoff is that with the cameras you have more fender benders but much fewer deadly accidents."

 

Excellent find, thank you for the correction! A reduction in fatal crashes is a good tradeoff for an increase in fender benders.

 

Either way, red light cameras aren't coming back any time soon within Cincinnati, they're currently banned via charter amendment. And the city would have to get voter approval to allow them again.

 

Same trade-off as roundabouts vs. other types of intersections, if I'm not mistaken. You see a small increase in fender benders (especially at first as people get used to them) but they virtually eliminate deadly high-speed T-bone accidents.

19 minutes ago, 1400 Sycamore said:

The yellow/red light delay is so long no one could ever have a T Bone accident from anything other than a blatant red light disregard. When I go through a yellow (which I always do) I am half a block past the light before traffic starts to move the other direction. On the other hand, every weeny will be slamming on their brakes to avoid a ticket creating more whip lash insurance fraud. There is no trade off. Red light cameras are a menace.

 

Or you could drive the speed limit, keep an appropriate distance between you and the person in front of you, and not blow through yellows and we would all be safer.

10 hours ago, Happenstance said:

Yes. There are new funds to pay for additional streeteries, but now that COVID emergency declarations have been lifted certain hoops have to be jumped through in order to get there. Personally, I have everything ready to go for my streetery but because my business exists within 100ft of a residential zone, I now have to submit a bunch of paperwork to go before the historic conservation board in mid September in order to get approved. So, ultimately, I will end up losing two months of prime outside seating since they can no longer bypass certain ordinances. You'll see more slowly popping up over the next few months. 

Well I’m glad to hear it’s in the works regardless..I’m sure even in the winter it will be helpful to have that additional outdoor space and I imagine heated tents can be implemented then. 
 

Out of sheer curiosity which otr establishment do you own?

21 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

I get the desire to have heated tents, but I do think it's going to be really ugly to have a bunch of tents on the streets for 4 months of the year.

 

Hopefully they just go forward with heat lamps, and maybe wind screens. We'll see what happens in November/December, though.

I don't think tents are inherently ugly. And I'll take that view over street parking any day!

2 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

I don't think tents are inherently ugly. And I'll take that view over street parking any day!

 

Mixed about that, honestly. If the tents are 10 feet tall, that's going to really obstruct the view of the storefronts/architecture in a way that a 5-foot car doesn't. I hope they don't just put tall white tents in front of every restaurant. I think it's fine when they close down an entire street and put that right in the middle of the street, but I am a little concerned about the ones that are adjacent to the sidewalk.  We'll see what happens.

20 hours ago, OliverHazardPerry said:

"The study (singular) that I believe you are referring to showed that sudden stop crashes were higher when there were red light cameras, but that angular accidents were also much lower at lights with cameras. Since angular accidents are much more likely to be fatal, the tradeoff is that with the cameras you have more fender benders but much fewer deadly accidents."

 

Excellent find, thank you for the correction! A reduction in fatal crashes is a good tradeoff for an increase in fender benders.

 

Either way, red light cameras aren't coming back any time soon within Cincinnati, they're currently banned via charter amendment. And the city would have to get voter approval to allow them again.

Remember the main reason why they were banned was not about safety, but more to do with lack of due process, and the regressive nature of enforcement that tended to be disparate against low income and minority populations

^ Nah, it was about COAST wanting to starve municipalities of revenue, nothing more. Let's not even entertain the idea that COAST has some kind of commitment to helping minorities.

1 hour ago, Troeros2 said:

Well I’m glad to hear it’s in the works regardless..I’m sure even in the winter it will be helpful to have that additional outdoor space and I imagine heated tents can be implemented then. 
 

Out of sheer curiosity which otr establishment do you own?

Standard Beer at 15th and Pleasant. Hoping to get this project done before October with there being six home FC games in the final five weeks of the season. Would be great to have that extra capacity!

13 minutes ago, Happenstance said:

Standard Beer at 15th and Pleasant. Hoping to get this project done before October with there being six home FC games in the final five weeks of the season. Would be great to have that extra capacity!

Oh nice! Love your place! 
 

Capacity issues are already a challenge in itself with otr small square footage buildings so I can see why you would that extra space with the street eateries. They really do make a difference for adding extra capacity and I’m sure that helps revenue as well.

 

Best of luck!

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2021/07/21/gelato-shop-opening-in-over-the-rhine.html
 

uGo gelato at 1733 elm street. Wouldn’t normally be a big deal but this appears to be a chain with locations in DC and Miami. 

18 hours ago, Troeros2 said:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2021/07/21/gelato-shop-opening-in-over-the-rhine.html
 

uGo gelato at 1733 elm street. Wouldn’t normally be a big deal but this appears to be a chain with locations in DC and Miami. 

 

Excited to try this when it opens. I feel like a lot of the ice cream in Cincinnati is hard serve, and only able to find soft serve seasonally. 

1 hour ago, RealAdamP said:

only able to find soft serve seasonally

Perhaps a dumb question, but I thought soft serve refers to the stuff served out of machines, like what's sold at Dairy Queen or McDonald's. Would the gelato from uGO also be considered "soft serve"? This is a sincere question, as I don't know much about the technical distinctions between these categories. And is what Dojo Gelato serves different from what uGO is planning?

Edited July 22, 20213 yr by jwulsin

Over the last few days, there were a few announcements of new businesses moving to or opening near Findlay Market. I'm especially glad to see Cincinnati Magazine moving their offices, and I'd love to see more offices relocate to this area.

• Cincinnati Magazine moving their offices to 1818 Race: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2021/07/22/cincinnat-magazine-moves-to-otr.html
• uGO Gelato opening at 1733 Elm: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2021/07/21/gelato-shop-opening-in-over-the-rhine.html
• Cosmic Gorilla opening at 1834 Race: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2021/07/20/gorilla-cinema-new-concepts.html

 

21 hours ago, taestell said:

^ Nah, it was about COAST wanting to starve municipalities of revenue, nothing more. Let's not even entertain the idea that COAST has some kind of commitment to helping minorities.

COAST was certainly a player at that time. They were certainly against it, but if you remember back to that time, they were not the only party involved, there were others that spoke out against it. Many African American leaders were against it at the time for the reasons that the burden of revenue would be unequally paid by minorities in the community. Think about it, even at that time (around 2006-2008 period I believe) COAST certainly had more power, but it was still not super strong in the city limits. They would not be able to move the needle on their own. Now, I believe Smitherman was in charge of the NAACP at that time so that certainly played a role, however, To say COAST was solely responsible is incorrect, but yes, they were actively against it against it too. 

44 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

Perhaps a dumb question, but I thought soft serve refers to the stuff served out of machines, like what's sold at Dairy Queen or McDonald's. Would the gelato from uGO also be considered "soft serve"? This is a sincere question, as I don't know much about the technical distinctions between these categories. And is what Dojo Gelato serves different from what uGO is planning?

Gelato is definitely not soft serve ice cream. Soft serve typically is non-dairy product that is poured out of machines in cones. Gelato is placed in tubs and then scooped out, making it hard serve