9 hours ago, Troeros2 said:

I understand crime exists and to some extent is a reality of living in an urban environment..especially in America due to our gun laws. 

 

Reply in the gun rights thread.

2 minutes ago, Troeros2 said:

but the people that are partying on the streets were never planning on going out to a bar in otr…they were planning to dominate and overtake the streets of Otr. Big difference.

What is your source?

 

7 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

Does that kill this project?

3 minutes ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

Does that kill this project?

I think City Council can choose to bring it up anyways, but would need 7 votes to pass.

Interestingly, the lawyer for OTRCH, who wanted this wet rehab unit for 44 addicts located in the brewery/entertainment zone (does that make sense?) was none other than Sean Suder of Liberty and Elm fame.

Moved Main Street crime discussion to Cincinnati: Crime & Safety Discussion.

It's interesting how there's always a justification why not to build in OTR. If market rate is proposed...it should be affordable instead! If affordable is proposed...it's too dense/there's not enough parking/we should put it somewhere else!

1 hour ago, taestell said:

It's interesting how there's always a justification why not to build in OTR. If market rate is proposed...it should be affordable instead! If affordable is proposed...it's too dense/there's not enough parking/we should put it somewhere else!

EXACTLY.  This is why I've evolved into a YIMBY.  Yeah, I have my preferences on what should be built and how dense etc, but there is always someone who opposes one aspect, and the way the zoning code here is written, most projects need some kind of variance, which just leads to the possibility that a NIMBY can kill it.

Just got an email from the City with this:

Here's the survey

 

https://forms.office.com/pages/responsepage.aspx?id=0b9Vb2k2_UGg48mNVq2zn_--pdDxNJNJhLuSucAlEA5UNVQ2SDZHWkJEVlBZSzQzNDRMOUY2WkVJVS4u

^Any idea what is meant by "the City may limit sidewalk space in the 1300 and 1400 blocks of Main Street"?

 

 

21 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

^Any idea what is meant by "the City may limit sidewalk space in the 1300 and 1400 blocks of Main Street"?

 

 

Probably means they're not going to allow the block parties anymore.  Aka no grills or chairs allowed on the sidewalks and everyone needs to keep it moving/not hang around.  

CPD had a press conf on this around 4pm supposedly on the plan for Main St but I missed it.

 

Plan is to restrict auto parking on Main from Liberty to Central Parkway. Invest in boom boxes, they are coming back!

Edited August 11, 20222 yr by 1400 Sycamore

3 hours ago, 1400 Sycamore said:

CPD had a press conf on this around 4pm supposedly on the plan for Main St but I missed it.

 

Plan is to restrict auto parking on Main from Liberty to Central Parkway. Invest in boom boxes, they are coming back!

so main st is essentially becoming a woonerf? 

I just heard all the changes - fantastic news all around. Back in the day no one would care about increase shootings in otr and little or nothing would be done. 
 

great progress to see some action a week later. Even better the 2 criminals were found so quickly. Otr still isn’t necessarily yet there in terms of safety that everyone wishes it would be, but there is no denying that surveillance and the city taking more action is heartening. 

10 hours ago, Troeros2 said:

Back in the day no one would care about increase shootings in otr and little or nothing would be done. 

Still confused why you keep saying this. At no point has any neighborhood resident ever said “oh well, shootings, we just gotta live with it.” 

2 hours ago, taestell said:

Still confused why you keep saying this. At no point has any neighborhood resident ever said “oh well, shootings, we just gotta live with it.” 

not saying the residents didn’t care…but the amount of police presence this past year alone obliterates what cpd had presence wise in otr previously. There is a clear need to take immediate action, versus having 20 round table discussions about how much of tragedy the shootings are. 

Saturday night update…block parties are complete gone. Huge cops and swat presence. Otr felt dead honestly, but it was nice…felt super calm and was really relaxing to walk through. Hopefully this continues.

I got a text from a friend who went to the FC Cincy game and they also said it was “dead” and not at all in a good way, Lame Vibes and no energy at all. I also spoke to a buddy of mine who is bartender on main st. and he also said money was bad. But a week after a mass shooting I expected it to be on the slow side, things will pick back up soon. 
 

Also to the “Block Party” Folks please read lol:
The Banks and OTR changes:

 

“Multiple city departments will help police in both areas, Curp said. Public service vehicles may block certain roads to control traffic, and the city is instituting a parking restriction on Main Street starting at 8 p.m. Friday.

Theetge said while there will be an increased police presence, that does not mean an "increased police enforcement." She said officers will not stop people from hanging out in front of businesses, and noted the city does not have a law against loitering. Instead, she said the department's goal is compliance — "compliance for businesses, compliance for patrons and civility and compliance to the crowds that come down to these areas."

 

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/over-the-rhine/cincinnati-leaders-expect-more-police-in-otr-and-at-the-banks-in-response-to-shooting

On 8/14/2022 at 1:55 AM, Troeros2 said:

Otr felt dead honestly…   Hopefully this continues.

Really? OTR feeling dead is a good thing? It's almost like some people want OTR to be a museum or a lifestyle center or something. Most of us still want the neighborhood to feel like, you know, a neighborhood that people live in and is full of activity. 

39 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

Really? OTR feeling dead is a good thing? It's almost like some people want OTR to be a museum or a lifestyle center or something. Most of us still want the neighborhood to feel like, you know, a neighborhood that people live in and is full of activity. 

Seconded. It's not a playground. This is our home and neighborhood. 

It felt very safe on Friday but it was sad to see businesses with 10% of the customers that they normally do. I like some of the changes, but there needs to be a middle ground found between the total street closure and total block party chaos. I wonder if there's a way that Main Street could be limited to transit and rideshare only while remaining closed to other private vehicles.

55 minutes ago, taestell said:

It felt very safe on Friday but it was sad to see businesses with 10% of the customers that they normally do. I like some of the changes, but there needs to be a middle ground found between the total street closure and total block party chaos. I wonder if there's a way that Main Street could be limited to transit and rideshare only while remaining closed to other private vehicles.

Why not make Main Street a total European woonerf? I think this could assist increase pedestrian traffic by shutting down traffic and maybe allowing for a Dora entertainment district. 
 

I know maybe local businesses will feel concerned about losing nearby parking for their customers, but I think customers will come in regardless and figure out how to use the nearby Ziegler parking garage and other nearby garages. 
 

I think the key is maybe not necessarily making Otr a police state guarded by swat and assault rifles and bullet proof vests, but maybe create an entertainment woonerf Dora district with entertainment offerings provided by 3cdc, with better street lighting, which could maybe help deter crime? 
 

it works in Europe…I know we have a slew of reasons why it might not work here, but why not give it a shot? 

No more dora districts.  The banks has become a complete clusterf*ck on weekend nights because of the dumb dora. 

1 hour ago, Dcs3939 said:

Seconded. It's not a playground. This is our home and neighborhood. 

that’s funny considering must of the block party attendees aren’t from Otr either. Many of them used to live in otr though but were priced out and found cheaper housing else where…but if your going to use the argument that Otr isn’t a playground then the block parties attendees and organizers are fully making use of Otr as a playground.

OTR has been a defacto DORA district ever since COVID hit. When the state allowed for carryout drinks during the pandemic, a lot of people got into the habit of "taking one for the road". I myself admit to sometimes carrying a drink with me when walking around the neighborhood. And I know several neighbors and friends who live in the area feel the same way. Officially sanctioning it won't really make a difference in my opinion. Cincinnati PD has bigger issues to deal with than open container laws.

 

The craziness of the Banks' DORA zone has much more to do with the types of bars located there, not the allowed open containers. It's mostly college kids and sports fans, who are naturally rowdier than your average crowd. OTR is bigger, more spread out, and has more residents, which will mute the constant party atmosphere that the Banks projects. Heck, Washington Park is basically a DORA already with the bar at the Porch selling alcohol and they don't have issues there.

Edited August 15, 20222 yr by OliverHazardPerry

45 minutes ago, Cincy513 said:

No more dora districts.  The banks has become a complete clusterf*ck on weekend nights because of the dumb dora. 

Gene Rayburn: Dumb Dora is so dumb

Audience: How dumb is she!!!

2 hours ago, Troeros2 said:

must of the block party attendees aren’t from Otr either.

You don't feel safe down there, yet you conducted a census. 

 

1 hour ago, zsnyder said:

You don't feel safe down there, yet you conducted a census. 

 

didn’t conduct a census - this block party event was initially organized in camp Washington in a ware house storage area. This got shut down due to redevelopment of the site, and was thus moved to a new location in otr. Surely some are Otr residents but it’s clear that many are not. 

 

6 hours ago, Troeros2 said:

Many of them used to live in otr though but were priced out and found cheaper housing else where

Don't forget the rest of your post!
 

2 hours ago, zsnyder said:

 

Don't forget the rest of your post!
 

 

again, tastell said this one page back;

 

Anecdotally I have heard that a lot of these crowds are upset about what they view as gentrification of the neighborhood and there is definitely a "take the neighborhood back" attitude to some of these gatherings. I think it's no coincidence that many of these parties are happening right outside Mr. Pitiful's which is a bar that had a sudden dramatic change from a diverse, long-time neighborhood hangout to a college party bar.

 

he lives in otr (last he said) and has better eyes and ears on the matter anyone. 
 

so not sure why I’m being singled out in this case, and everyone is ignoring what tastell said as well?

 

 

Where does it say in that ANECDOTE that  "Many of them used to live in otr though but were priced out and found cheaper housing else where"   ?

It doesn't.

This is an example of why I'm "singling" you out. You twist the story to support a narrative and clang the alarm bells. It's pretty much what you do around here.

I come to the development threads to read about development. If I want to read about how scary everything is, I've got the rest of the internet for that. 

I know it sounds elitist and privileged, but "my cleaning person" has lived within a few blocks of this nonsense for 50 years and she says it is a conflict between the local long time residents around the bar district (where she is from) and the crowds coming down from Price Hill, and elsewhere.

On 8/15/2022 at 11:26 AM, Troeros2 said:

Why not make Main Street a total European woonerf? I think this could assist increase pedestrian traffic by shutting down traffic

 

A woonerf isn't a pedestrian-only street.

On 5/23/2022 at 2:11 PM, The_Cincinnati_Kid said:

Magistrate rules in $80 million Liberty & Elm development

By Chris Wetterich  –  Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

May 23, 2022

 

 

An Over-the-Rhine group has no standing to challenge the city’s approval of a massive mixed-use project, Hamilton County Magistrate Anita Berding has ruled.

 

But Berding’s ruling may not be the final world, with the plaintiff in the case, nonprofit real estate firm OTR Adopt, urging Hamilton County Common Pleas Judge Lisa Allen to reject it earlier this month.

 

Kean Development’s project in the northwest corner of Liberty and Elm streets, which also includes the demolished former Boys and Girls Club site, has been ensnared in a court battle over approvals given to it by city regulators for more than a year. The $80 million project calls for 305 units, a 210-space parking garage and 11,717 square feet of retail. It includes two new buildings and the rehabilitation of four historic buildings.

 

MORE

 

Hearing that this may, in fact, be the end for this development. I'd expect this to sit as an empty lot for another 5+ years before another proposal gains traction.

29 minutes ago, taestell said:

 

Hearing that this may, in fact, be the end for this development. I'd expect this to sit as an empty lot for another 5+ years before another proposal gains traction.

Only for it to get shot down again. I’d expect nothing to get build in 10+ years. 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/entertainment/dining/2022/08/16/senate-restaurant-returning-to-over-the-rhine/65406615007/

Senate is returning to OTR. Will be taking over Fourty Thieves space in Holiday. Fourth Thieves will be relocating. 

Edited August 16, 20222 yr by Ucgrad2015
Added link

1 hour ago, taestell said:

 

Hearing that this may, in fact, be the end for this development. I'd expect this to sit as an empty lot for another 5+ years before another proposal gains traction.

Great job by our city. This is why outside developers don’t even bother coming here. 

Way to popular of a area to stay a vacant lot.Development is heading to North of Liberty it can't be stopped for long.

3 hours ago, Cincy513 said:

Great job by our city. This is why outside developers don’t even bother coming here. 

What could the city do differently so that this wouldn’t happen again? Are there any laws or ordinances that could stop NIMBYs from holding up developments with lawsuits?

 

1 hour ago, Guy23 said:

What could the city do differently so that this wouldn’t happen again? Are there any laws or ordinances that could stop NIMBYs from holding up developments with lawsuits?

 

Seems like Klingler is reviving the legacy of Buddy Gray. OTR ADOPT would rather have a vacant lot than a for profit development. The problem is only with the American Rule on attorneys fees. If the loser had to pay the winner's fees as they do in most industrialized nations, these objections would never be filed unless there were substantive errors in the approvals by the HCB. Frankly, in most cases the lawyers know who is going to win and who will lose in the final act of a three act play. But a delay is often as good as a win.

8 hours ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/entertainment/dining/2022/08/16/senate-restaurant-returning-to-over-the-rhine/65406615007/

Senate is returning to OTR. Will be taking over Fourty Thieves space in Holiday. Fourth Thieves will be relocating. 

Not sure how to take this news…senate is being downgraded to a carry out window …and they specifically mention they are looking for a suburban spot for forty thieves…

 

Not sure what’s going on with the ownership and Otr lately but there has definitely been a shift for their new restaurant concepts to go towards suburb location…not sure if that’s due to high rent in otr and bad foot traffic, but it’s disheartening that this ownership group was once such a pioneer for opening new concepts in otr has really shifted elsewhere  

I think Senate reopening in the 40 Thieves location is a great idea for a few reasons. Firstly, I don't think that 40 Thieves really took off and gained traction the way the ownership wanted it to. I love the 40 Thieves food and the atmosphere of Holiday Spirits, but rarely found it to be very busy. By replacing it with Senate, they're going to bring a lot more people to Holiday Spirits, which is in a section of the neighborhood that could really use more foot traffic. Secondly, I think a walk-up window inside a fun bar with pool tables and Skee-Ball is actually a better concept for Senate than the old sit-down gastropub concept.

10 hours ago, ucnum1 said:

Way to popular of a area to stay a vacant lot.Development is heading to North of Liberty it can't be stopped for long.

Fc Cincinnati or 3CDC should buy it so you’d have a big entity that hopefully OTR Adopt wouldn’t want to mess with. 

Be Careful what you wish for….

 

“As city focuses on safety after mass shooting, OTR residents say barricades are deterring people from coming”

 

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/over-the-rhine/as-city-focuses-on-safety-after-mass-shooting-otr-residents-say-barricades-are-deterring-people-from-coming

1 hour ago, 646empire said:

Be Careful what you wish for….

 

“As city focuses on safety after mass shooting, OTR residents say barricades are deterring people from coming”

 

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/over-the-rhine/as-city-focuses-on-safety-after-mass-shooting-otr-residents-say-barricades-are-deterring-people-from-coming

nah what’s deterring people from coming is the violence and mass shooting. No one in their right mind would be excited to party in Otr after the crap that’s been occurring this past month in otr

Walking around at lunch today there are folded up barricades from the Pony down to Indigo Hippo blocking the sidewalk and this was at noon on a Wednesday. People who live and work in the neighborhood didn't just disappear so the lunch crowd is basically the same  number of people as last week, but the feeling on Main Street is really weird and it can't NOT hurt business when your entry door is stuck between sections of chain link fence and next to big cop lights and stuff. (I'm avoiding the fact that you only see OTR as a place to be 'excite  to party' and again are ignoring that it's a neighborhood that people live and work in every day) It's not just about people avoiding Main Street bars at night, which probably is happening, the guy they interview owns a scooter/bike store called Urban Transit that's opening during normal business hours. 

 

The week following the shooting I purposely went and got lunch a couple times on Main street because I was afraid the late night shooting would negatively affect the daytime business, and I didn't notice much of a drop off at Jack Browns or Goodfellas (takeaway is still closed unfortunately). Today however when I went to lunch there are definitely fewer pedestrians on Main as before the barriers were placed. Findlay market was very crowded today, Vine Street was very crowded yesterday as well so it's not that people are afraid of OTR, they are avoiding Main Street for various reasons, but the barriers are definitely one of the reasons. 

Edited August 17, 20222 yr by ucgrady

All of the extra barricades and light towers and temporary chain link fences have the same effect as metal bars over windows. You might think that it makes things safer, but it also has the effect of telling people "this isn't a safe neighborhood" which in turn keeps people away, reduces the number of customers coming to local businesses, reduces the number of eyes on the street. The way OTR was swarming with police last weekend made it feel technically "safe" ("I'm not going to get shot here") but it also made it feel like...not a place where anyone wanted to hang out. If the city keeps this up every weekend, it's going to kill many more local business on Main Street which is going to make the situation even worse.

 

This is why I said:

 

On 8/15/2022 at 10:26 AM, taestell said:

I like some of the changes, but there needs to be a middle ground found between the total street closure and total block party chaos.

 

52 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

Walking around at lunch today there are folded up barricades from the Pony down to Indigo Hippo blocking the sidewalk and this was at noon on a Wednesday. People who live and work in the neighborhood didn't just disappear so the lunch crowd is basically the same  number of people as last week, but the feeling on Main Street is really weird and it can't NOT hurt business when your entry door is stuck between sections of chain link fence and next to big cop lights and stuff. (I'm avoiding the fact that you only see OTR as a place to be 'excite  to party' and again are ignoring that it's a neighborhood that people live and work in every day) It's not just about people avoiding Main Street bars at night, which probably is happening, the guy they interview owns a scooter/bike store called Urban Transit that's opening during normal business hours. 

 

The week following the shooting I purposely went and got lunch a couple times on Main street because I was afraid the late night shooting would negatively affect the daytime business, and I didn't notice much of a drop off at Jack Browns or Goodfellas (takeaway is still closed unfortunately). Today however when I went to lunch there are definitely fewer pedestrians on Main as before the barriers were placed. Findlay market was very crowded today, Vine Street was very crowded yesterday as well so it's not that people are afraid of OTR, they are avoiding Main Street for various reasons, but the barriers are definitely one of the reasons. 

 

Yupp I just went to Main Street to check it out my self and the Barricades are a hot mess.