1 hour ago, jwulsin said:

You should buy it and do it justice!

"You don't like it? Let's see you do better!" is not a response that I ever expected to see on this forum. 

I understand the pragmatic realities of the site, and that everyone else is making the winning argument. I just wish there was room for more than pragmatism. 
 

16 hours ago, Htsguy said:

Saw the rendering in the biz journal article after my above post.  Wow.  Typical off the shelf Geis mess.  They do all the design work in house and value engineer their projects to death.  

This is your typical response to all of Geis' projects so at least you're consistent!

To be fair to them, the design process in OTR is hemmed in by relatively strict historical design standards that must be met and approved by a historical design review board. 

could argue it both ways...
"not every building can be the flashy admiral with the fancy hat and shiny uniform - sometimes we just need soldiers"  robert a m stern
i wish the ground level had a bit more going on, but otherwise, this is an ok soldier for OTR.

 

to the other point, this is a prominent location... maybe an admiral should have been called in

I like it.  Filling in the "missing teeth" of the neighborhood will add to the overall appeal.   Looks to me like it will fit nicely.  

4 hours ago, zsnyder said:

"You don't like it? Let's see you do better!" is not a response that I ever expected to see on this forum. 

 

Sorry - I didn't mean to come across as so snarky. I'm just frustrated by how damn near impossible it is to get anything built, and nothing will get built if we have to please every person who has a complaint about a project. I'm all for having high standards and it's fine to be an outside critic. But I'm tired of seeing projects die because they can't thread the needle between the vanishingly small window of not too expensive, not too many affordable units, not too dense, but dense enough, not enough parking, not too much parking, not too modern design, not too faux-historic. No one project can be everything to everyone.

IMO the two buildings as rendered would be a great addition to Central Parkway and the CBD. It has the feel of an old factory/manufacturing building reconstituted for apartments in a city environment. No need to make it flashy if they build the two at the same time. It will be seen as contemporary. The overall size, of the two buildings will attract many. Functionally it fits many people's desire for urban living, OTR living and is within walking distance of major attractions. Kroger, the library, OTR, FC Cincinnati, possible new arena, the Emory, Washington Park, Music Hall, the Casino, the YMCA and nightlife. 

 

If you want walkers, it seems like a perfect location. if you want the street cars to become viable this spot would even be more attractive to people. Findlay Market and the Banks will get more business too. i would personally add some sort of protection from the weather, widen the sidewalks, and some sort of natural barrier between the street and CP. Maybe even a coffee shop called Central Perk. 

Yes, adding more residential on Central Parkway may accelerate the timeframe for narrowing the east-west part of the parkway and making it more pedestrian-oriented, much like they are doing to the north-south part in front of TQL Stadium. The last time Central Parkway was rebuilt, which I think was a few years before the OTR renaissance began, the focus was on getting workers from the highways to their parking garages in the CBD as quickly as possible.

 i attempted to soften the building without changing the cost. #1. at the ends of each of the two buildings, I rounded just the four columns. some sort of turret or rounded corners of the buildings would be better. #2. I added awnings that hover close to the building. a real architect could do much better. #3. I widened the sidewalk and added outdoor eating areas that are common in OTR. instead of sitting in the street, they would be on the sidewalk.

17 hours ago, taestell said:

Yes, adding more residential on Central Parkway may accelerate the timeframe for narrowing the east-west part of the parkway and making it more pedestrian-oriented, much like they are doing to the north-south part in front of TQL Stadium. The last time Central Parkway was rebuilt, which I think was a few years before the OTR renaissance began, the focus was on getting workers from the highways to their parking garages in the CBD as quickly as possible.

Couple this with COVID's impact on reducing office in the core, I think there is a really strong case for what you are suggesting.

At the same time, let's do this:

1 hour ago, Chas Wiederhold said:

Couple this with COVID's impact on reducing office in the core, I think there is a really strong case for what you are suggesting.

At the same time, let's do this:

 

These are great ideas. What's the best way to lobby to have these routes studied?

7 hours ago, RJohnson said:

 i attempted to soften the building without changing the cost. #1. at the ends of each of the two buildings, I rounded just the four columns. some sort of turret or rounded corners of the buildings would be better. #2. I added awnings that hover close to the building. a real architect could do much better. #3. I widened the sidewalk and added outdoor eating areas that are common in OTR. instead of sitting in the street, they would be on the sidewalk.

I've got a better idea. get rid of the aluminum panels and make it all brick. Also make windows with more panes. Then it looks great.

13 hours ago, columbus17 said:

I've got a better idea. get rid of the aluminum panels and make it all brick. Also make windows with more panes. Then it looks great.

i didn't specify materials and where would one get a brick awning? get yourself a pensnil and illustrate your "more panes". 

On 11/15/2024 at 8:12 PM, columbus17 said:

I've got a better idea. get rid of the aluminum panels and make it all brick. Also make windows with more panes. Then it looks great.

Agreed on both points but especially the windows. Classic factory style grid windows would make it look more like a historic factory, similar to the Baldwin building's residential conversion. 

or do a better contemporary version if it cant be all brick.  morris adjmi-style

i added the windows (don't look close) and a parapet.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2024Nov 18 by RJohnson
rework rendering

That parapet does wonders for the look of the building. I understand the intent of the angled out brick, but without a change in color/material at the top, it really doesn't create the "cap" on the building.

Edit: 👇

i added the windows and a parapet.

Those black spandrels cannot survive this redesign-by-committee. Just cop to the precedent and use brick.

9 hours ago, ryanlammi said:

'The missing piece': Potential sites, cost for a new Cincinnati arena unveiled

By: Chris Wetterich, Cincinnati Business Courier

 

 

STORY HIGHLIGHTS

• A new arena would cost between $675 million and $800 million.
• Public funding may cover 70% of the costs.
• Sites near the Duke Energy Convention Center are considered the most desirable.

A new arena to replace the 50-year-old Heritage Bank Center will cost $675 million to $800 million and could be built at several sites in the urban core, with sites west of Duke Energy Convention Center and Town Center Garage south of TQL Stadium viewed as the most desirable, according to a new study.

 

But constructing a new arena could require new taxes, a major obstacle in a region where a sizable portion of the public still feels burned by the 1996 Hamilton County stadium sales tax.

 

The Cincinnati Regional Chamber spearheaded a comprehensive study put together by MSA Sport, Populous, the Machete Group and Turner Construction – and released for the first time publicly Monday, Nov. 18.

 

READ MORE

 

9 hours ago, RJohnson said:

i added the windows (don't look close) and a parapet.

 

 

 

Be sure to add a mural that doesn't make any sense if you want it to fit in with the rest of the neighborhood. 

 

 

That building is mural proof. More points against it? 

Also, look at the latest in the Montgomery thread for even more inspiration about which sliders to enable on this design.

Haha, I literally just came here to share a rendering of the Montgomery project:

 

6 hours ago, Lazarus said:

Be sure to add a mural that doesn't make any sense if you want it to fit in with the rest of the neighborhood.

Your wish. with bus wrap-style mural.

Edited November 19, 2024Nov 19 by RJohnson
edit copy

7 hours ago, Lazarus said:

 

Be sure to add a mural that doesn't make any sense if you want it to fit in with the rest of the neighborhood. 

 

 

 

Somebody should keep a running list of things you hate. I wouldn't have bet that murals were on the list honestly, so kudos for surprising me.

Urban Sites completes first building in $12M scattered site OTR project

By Brian Planalp – Staff reporter, Cincinnati Business Courier

Nov 21, 2024

 

Urban Sites is putting the finishing touches on its latest project in Over-the-Rhine just as it starts work on another, signaling the strength of the neighborhood’s redevelopment momentum after the Covid-19 pandemic.

 

The firm, headquartered on Sycamore Street, is midway through a $12 million scattered-site redevelopment effort that involves 12 buildings and 55 residential units.

 

The effort is technically two separate projects. The first involves the renovation of five buildings into market-rate apartments:

1400 and 1408 Walnut St.

106 and 110 E. 14th St.

1400 Clay St.

Urban Sites used state and federal historic tax credits for these buildings, on which work is underway, wrapping up or recently completed.

 

The second project involves the renovation of seven buildings into income-restricted apartments:

1307, 1329 and 1415 Main St.

120 E. 14th St.

1412, 1439 and 1443 Walnut St.

 

MORE

2 hours ago, The_Cincinnati_Kid said:

Urban Sites completes first building in $12M scattered site OTR project

By Brian Planalp – Staff reporter, Cincinnati Business Courier

Nov 21, 2024

 

Urban Sites is putting the finishing touches on its latest project in Over-the-Rhine just as it starts work on another, signaling the strength of the neighborhood’s redevelopment momentum after the Covid-19 pandemic.

 

The firm, headquartered on Sycamore Street, is midway through a $12 million scattered-site redevelopment effort that involves 12 buildings and 55 residential units.

 

The effort is technically two separate projects. The first involves the renovation of five buildings into market-rate apartments:

1400 and 1408 Walnut St.

106 and 110 E. 14th St.

1400 Clay St.

Urban Sites used state and federal historic tax credits for these buildings, on which work is underway, wrapping up or recently completed.

 

The second project involves the renovation of seven buildings into income-restricted apartments:

1307, 1329 and 1415 Main St.

120 E. 14th St.

1412, 1439 and 1443 Walnut St.

 

MORE

 

Great improvement! In the article, Urban Sites says that they have some "dynamite" commercial leases coming to some of these buildings. Eager to see what they are. 

4 hours ago, The_Cincinnati_Kid said:

Urban Sites completes first building in $12M scattered site OTR project

By Brian Planalp – Staff reporter, Cincinnati Business Courier

Nov 21, 2024

 

Urban Sites is putting the finishing touches on its latest project in Over-the-Rhine just as it starts work on another, signaling the strength of the neighborhood’s redevelopment momentum after the Covid-19 pandemic.

 

The firm, headquartered on Sycamore Street, is midway through a $12 million scattered-site redevelopment effort that involves 12 buildings and 55 residential units.

 

The effort is technically two separate projects. The first involves the renovation of five buildings into market-rate apartments:

1400 and 1408 Walnut St.

106 and 110 E. 14th St.

1400 Clay St.

Urban Sites used state and federal historic tax credits for these buildings, on which work is underway, wrapping up or recently completed.

 

The second project involves the renovation of seven buildings into income-restricted apartments:

1307, 1329 and 1415 Main St.

120 E. 14th St.

1412, 1439 and 1443 Walnut St.

 

MORE

Admittedly I don't keep good track but it still surprises me on these more scattered site projects how many buildings are still left to renovate in OTR. However after reading the article it looks like 7 of them were already occupied and they are updating everything. Either case, great to get these new updates and get the buildings in top shape. It looks like these 4 buildings were empty before:

 

1400 and 1408 Walnut St.

106 and 110 E. 14th St.

1400 Clay St.

Edited November 21, 2024Nov 21 by IAGuy39

There are still empty buildings overlooking Washington Park on Race Street in a prime location, let alone the many more vacant buildings around OTR especially north of Liberty. I'm glad to see projects like this, and wish there was a way to focus development more on the currently vacant buildings through incentives and/or property tax on potential value etc. because there are still plenty of vacant buildings to be rehabilitated before anyone has to be displaced. 

Land value tax solves this

1 hour ago, IAGuy39 said:

However after reading the article it looks like 7 of them were already occupied and they are updating everything.

 

Right, it sounds like minimal improvements were made when Urban Sites originally bought the buildings. Now they are getting a full renovation to bring them up to the standards of what is expected in OTR today. I'm definitely excited about the renovations along 14th Street and Walnut Street. This is geographically right in the heart of the neighborhood so it's odd that so many buildings in that area were still vacant or deteriorating.

6 minutes ago, taestell said:

 

Right, it sounds like minimal improvements were made when Urban Sites originally bought the buildings. Now they are getting a full renovation to bring them up to the standards of what is expected in OTR today. I'm definitely excited about the renovations along 14th Street and Walnut Street. This is geographically right in the heart of the neighborhood so it's odd that so many buildings in that area were still vacant or deteriorating.

And then with the former Wade development finally that area of OTR (14th & Walnut up to Liberty & Walnut) can get the treatment it deserves.

One of my neighbors on Wade Street is converting a vacant lot to parking. I don't love this sort of development, but the level of grey infrastructure (and presumably costs) required is pretty amazing. The land and development costs, plus the forever ongoing property taxes plus sewer payments must make this a pretty pricey way to park.

 

What also astonishes me is the disconnect between the rules for creating impervious surfaces and related incentives or disincentives, and the high costs that we all are paying (in our sewer bills) for mitigating combined sewer overflows that still occur all over Cincinnati whenever we have a significant rainfall event.

 

To the best of my knowledge, we still operate under an old set of rules for determining sewer/stormwater rates for developed parcels. I don't think there are any incentives for the developer to install pervious pavement, for example. Why use anything but asphalt, if my sewer/stormwater rates are going to be the same?

 

I know that, for a new residential build, you will get zero credit on your sewer/stormwater bill from installing a green roof, or a large rainwater storage tank, both of which would significantly reduce and delay runoff from hitting the sewer network. Why this has not been fixed by now, defies any logic that I can supply.

 

Edited November 25, 2024Nov 25 by jim uber
duplicate image

I'm more offended by that infill it faces.  Oh Michael Graves...

The county used to have pervious surface credit, but they found over time that it did not perform as expected or was not usually maintained, so they removed the credit.

2 hours ago, CincyIntheKnow said:

The county used to have pervious surface credit, but they found over time that it did not perform as expected or was not usually maintained, so they removed the credit.

I understand that you can't implement a plan based on performance, without spending some money to continuously validate performance.

 

But, Phase 1 of MSDs wet weather program has cost the community $1.5B; Phase 2 was estimated to cost $2.3B and was deemed to be "unaffordable" by the community. 

 

This is a serious problem with serious money flowing into it. The talk is all about a holistic approach but the reality, it seems, is that doing the right thing - preventing or reducing runoff due to parcel level development - is just not getting the serious attention it deserves, IMHO. And it's impacting folks wallets a lot more than the price of eggs.

Vacant building at the corner of Elm and Liberty finally getting renovated. Always thought it would make a great restaurant space. 

Since I was a kid, I always imagined a bike shop there. Great to see it finally saved.

2 hours ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

Vacant building at the corner of Elm and Liberty finally getting renovated. Always thought it would make a great restaurant space. 

I always pictured a really nice steak house or something in 3/4 of the building, and on half of the first floor a nice little dive bar to wait for your table

2 hours ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

Vacant building at the corner of Elm and Liberty finally getting renovated. Always thought it would make a great restaurant space. 

That is owned by the parent company of the new(ish) Christian Moerlein Brewing Company. Not sure if they are doing brewery related or a different concept. I know the rehab of the historic Clyffside Brewery as a taproom next to the production brewery on McMicken  is on the back burner at the moment.

The drawings show it being converted to a large, 2-level restaurant with an enclosed patio at the corner of Elm and Wade. 

 

I was in there years ago when the roofing company still used it and it had wide ramps for horses.  

11 hours ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

Vacant building at the corner of Elm and Liberty finally getting renovated.

Looks like the same owner that is renovating the old Jackson and Clyffside breweries up on hillside at the top of Elm St. 

 

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/i-team/entrepreneur-invests-30m-to-revive-defunct-breweries-from-the-1800s-in-over-the-rhine

That building always reminded me of something from New Orleans, maybe it's the arched ground floor openings and lack of Italianate detail that so much of OTR has, but it feels somehow older and different than the rest of that block. I hope it becomes something really cool and maintains it's very old feel to help anchor that corner. With the large new apartment building going up across the street and the surface lots across from it and the vacant / billboard lot kitty corner from it that will someday be redeveloped; this building will be doing a LOT of work to hold down the historic district bona fides for that whole intersection.

https://www.facebook.com/100064306794633/posts/960612949425589/

 

https://cincinnati-oh.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZAqduGqqzIuEtPWYgnaxXlIvwMlTEaMbypy?fbclid=IwY2xjawGzYKNleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHU2eqTkY6Q3H2YpFaIvNbYhMkgV-1r6UexdvM31sHkCEwB1rqU_ZO1aC7g_aem_evNsX2tC6SG4A9jHYipCCQ#/registration

Edited November 27, 2024Nov 27 by ucnum1

Here's the direct link to the city's page for it:
Proposed use of TIF funds for Crossroads Health Center, Findlay Flats, and Findlay Community Center.

 

Quote

Crossroads Health Center

Crossroads Health Center plans to relocate to 1715 Republic (City-owned) from its current Liberty and Vine location. The project would include adjacent properties at 1710-1712 Race (City-owned) and 34 Green (3CDC-owned). The 1715 Republic site consists of two buildings. The southern building is the current OTR Recreation Center, which plans to relocate one block north and would be the new Findlay Community Center (below). The northern building houses various City partners, including the Corporation for Findlay Market and Golden Gloves. The 1710-1712 Race site is existing surface parking, and 34 Green includes one vacant building. The project began in 2021 when the City entered a professional services contract with 3CDC as a development manager, including 1715 Republic. As part of the services, 3CDC partnered with Crossroad Health Center, planning and designing the relocation. 3CDC has presented to the Over-the-Rhine Community Council (OTRCC) and Downtown Residents Council (DRC), and both entities have voted to support the City's financial support for this project.

 

The plan is to renovate the southern building at 1715 Republic for the new 21,000 square foot Crossroads Health Center. The northern building on 1715 Republic and the building on 34 Green would be demolished, and in combination with the 1710-1712 Republic, would provide approximately 108 public parking spaces. All parking would remain City-owned property, and proceeds would support the operations of the new Findlay Community Center. The project is anticipated to cost $14.8 million, of which the applicant is requesting up to $4.4 million in City funding, some or all of which will come from tax increment financing (TIF) funds.

 

Findlay Flats

The applicant (3CDC) plans to renovate ten buildings at the corner of Elder and Vine, including 6/12 Elder, 1724-1734/1801-1809 Vine, and 1801-1810 Republic. All properties are vacant and currently owned by 3CDC. This project would create seven street-level commercial spaces and 45 new residential rental units, 15 of which will be affordable housing for individuals earning 80% or less of the Area Median Income. The development will include 18 studio units, 20 one-bedroom units, four two-bedroom units, and three three-bedroom units, ranging in size from 482-1,477 square feet. The rent range is expected to be $1,078-2,318 per month. 3CDC has presented to OTRCC and DRC, and both entities have voted to support the City's financial support for this project. The project is anticipated to cost $24.7 million, of which the applicant is requesting up to $6.7 million from tax increment financing (TIF) funds.

 

Findlay Community Center

The applicant (3CDC), on behalf of the City, plans to construct a new Community Center at 1811 Vine to replace the OTR Recreation Center that is currently located one block south (see above; Crossroads Health Center). The proposed site is located on the existing open park land known as Findlay Playground and is City-owned property. The project began in 2021 when the City entered a professional services contract with 3CDC as a development manager, including 1811 Vine. Since then, 3CDC has convened regular steering committee meetings to obtain feedback on the project from various community partners. 3CDC has presented to OTRCC and DRC, and both entities have voted to support the City's financial support for this project.

 

The plan includes the construction of a new infill development consisting of a new recreation center known as the Findlay Community Center. The facility will consist of a two-story building totaling 65,000 square feet. The center will provide recreation and wellness services, including a gymnasium, running track, indoor pool, fitness center, roller rink, childcare center, multi-purpose rooms, administrative space, rooftop outdoor fitness space, and play areas. The project is anticipated to cost $46.8 million, of which the applicant is requesting up to $22.0 million in City funding, some or all of which will come from tax increment financing (TIF) funds.

 

 

Do the plans presented to the committee get posted online?

16 hours ago, taestell said:

Do the plans presented to the committee get posted online?

Here's what was presented to the OTR Community Council in November: https://otrcommunitycouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/The-Lockhart-Community-Engagement-11_25.pdf

1 hour ago, jwulsin said:

Here's what was presented to the OTR Community Council in November: https://otrcommunitycouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/The-Lockhart-Community-Engagement-11_25.pdf

 

Is all that parking on Clay Street private?

 

The 'courtyard' at Walnut and Liberty is unfortunate. Building up to the sidewalk should be required IMO.

If you're interested in the design of the Lockard project, the project team (Urban Sites, City Studios Architecture, and Triversity Construction) is hosting a design engagement meeting tomorrow (December 18th) at 5-6pm at 1212 Main St.

 

They claim to want to reconnect Walnut and Main, so they put a large parking lot at the rear of the building between the two streets, and the structure doesn't even engage with Liberty. And on top they're preserving the parking lot across the street. This whole thing is a mess.