November 28, 200717 yr Just curious, is there any word on what's going to happen with the old SCPA when the new one is open? In all seriousness...I bet the building will be sold off (like many other CPS schools) and that the building will then be converted into some other use (most likely condos and/or apartments).
November 28, 200717 yr I went over the The Gateway Condo information office on my 'lunch break' and talked to the sales guy. He said Robert's restaurant will be open in January, he also said that 46 of the 93 condos are now under contract, and he said they WILL be coming out with 100 or so condos every year for the next 3 years. He said a lot of the buyers have been Boston transplants via the whole P&G Gillette buyout thing. He also said since they have been in the news for the past 5 days or whatever, they have had a lot of interest recently. I went and saw a unit for $85k in the Bremen Lofts. It was alright, certainly the right price for $85k. I like what they are doing, really fantastic. (If this is the wrong thread for this, please move it).
November 29, 200717 yr Author More condos, bigger Millworks win approval BY JANE PRENDERGAST | [email protected] More condos in Over-the-Rhine and the $300 million redevelopment of the former Cincinnati Milling Machine property in Oakley moved forward Wednesday with votes by Cincinnati City Council. Council members unanimously: Agreed to give a subsidiary of the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. (3CDC) $5.3 million in a grant and tax-increment financing to help develop 108 condos in 29 vacant buildings and on vacant lots in Over-the-Rhine. Approved a bigger Millworks Town Center redevelopment plan than one proposed last year. This one, for the southwest corner of Marburg and Ibsen avenues, includes about 700,000 square feet of both office and residential, two hotels and retail. Developers say 3,500 jobs could be created when the project's pieces are in operation. City Manager Milton Dohoney also got a raise from council - 7 percent, or about $14,000 on top of the $188,700 he had been earning. The raise is retroactive to his first anniversary date in August. Meanwhile, Mayor Mark Mallory presented his recommendations to City Council members for next year's city budget. Council's Finance Committee has its first meeting on the budget Monday. His version of the budget keeps all pools, recreation centers and health centers open, but adds money for police overtime and funds more human service agencies. The mayor's budget eliminates two fees proposed in the original document written by City Manager Milton Dohoney - a $5-per-quarter charge for solid waste and a maintenance fee for property owners with gaslights. Mallory said he was able to eliminate those proposed revenue additions and add some other items because the Finance Department's newest estimates of incoming revenue showed about $3.5 million more than anticipated. He proposed restoring $950,000 in human services funding and $75,000 for the Cincinnati Film Commission. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071129/NEWS01/711290376/1056/COL02
December 2, 200717 yr I have a photo of this building from around 1999, it looked like a goner. Glad it's back from the dead. And I'm guessing this was where the recently repaved parking lot is at 12th & Vine. Well, at least they have an ATM there now: It's not visible in this photo, perhaps it's hiding behind the building still standing on the south side of 12th. And it looks like that half block now occupied by the Kroger garage and Gateway condos was one of the first surface lots in the city:
December 2, 200717 yr It's not visible in this photo, perhaps it's hiding behind the building still standing on the south side of 12th. And it looks like that half block now occupied by the Kroger garage and Gateway condos was one of the first surface lots in the city: I can't see 12th St at all in that photo. The northern half of the Gateway condo location looks like a grey blob that could be about anything. I do see the mish-mash that is likely cars parked there though. Anyway, these old photos are always great to look at. Thanks.
December 2, 200717 yr This photo does have some large photos from the era in it like the Cincinnati Club and the American Building. And as you look around there's no end to the row buildings, tens and tens of thousands of them. The new large buildings must have stood out amazingly back then and I think we can understand why people weren't upset by them being torn down by the hundreds for highways and various large developments. The problem today is if 100 are torn down city-wide per year, which is probably about the pace we're at, in 50 years 5,000 will be gone which might be just about all of them. I don't know how many are still in use or at the very least standing, but I'd bet half have been torn town. Also that bank looks a lot more substantial in that image than it probably was in real life.
December 2, 200717 yr What year was this photo taken, can you tell? http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/vinest-1.jpg
December 2, 200717 yr Because the Kroger Building's not there it could be any time between 1931~ and 1957~ but I'd guess mid-1930's based on the style of cars and lack of parking lots. Also it's taken with a 4X5 camera or other camera using sheet film which was more common before the war. Also looking more closely it looks like the area between Court St. and Central Parkway where the Kroger Building now stands is a parking lot. I suppose since so much traffic entered the CBD on Central Parkway it only makes sense that some of the first surface lots would appear there.
December 3, 200717 yr Because the Kroger Building's not there it could be any time between 1931~ and 1957~ but I'd guess mid-1930's based on the style of cars and lack of parking lots. We can limit the dates to earlier than 1949 since the Terrace Plaza Hotel isn't in the picture yet.
December 3, 200717 yr ^The photo has to have been taken before 1930. Just below the "Cincinnati" part of the identifying tag (Cincinnati Museum Center) you can see the the Carew buildings clock tower. The Carew Building was the predecessor to the Carew Tower. The American Building was constructed in 1928, so the date is between 1928-1930. Anyway thats my guess. The date could be further narrowed down if someone knows when the Carew Building was demolished for the Carew tower. The bank building was at the southeast corner of 12th and vine, I can recall climbing around its columns and base as a kid. It was every bit as substantial as it appears.
December 12, 200717 yr I don't want to bring anybody down, but I also want to post on this thread some of the buildings OTR is going to lose. Demolition permits were applied for the following property: 23 E. Thirteenth It was actually being listed for $239,000: "Deutche Gegenfeitige Derlicherungs - Gefellechaft von Cincinnati & the Stafford in Historic Over-the-Rhine." I guess there were no takers. LISTING Goodbye: Update: It looks like 23 E 13th was not torn down. In fact it is now for sale as part of a bundle with 1227 Jackson St and 35 E. Thirteenth. The Jackson St and 23 E 13th locations were renovated and 35 E 13th is a two building combo with both the Deutche Gegenseitige Derlicherungs - Gesellschaft von Cincinnati and the Stafford. These two are beautiful buildings that are not remodeled yet. They are all for sale as part of a <a href="http://comey.com/displaylist.asw?listnum=1098531&mls=cincy">package</a> for $1.6M. I'm not sure any one will fork that kind of money over for a half completed set of buildings, but at least they're not yet gone forever.
December 12, 200717 yr ^ Deutche Gegenseitige Derlicherungs - Gesellschaft von Cincinnati and the Stafford are fantastic buildings. The corner one with the German inscription was the original home of the German Mutual Insurance Co. of Cincinnati which is what the inscription means.
January 2, 200817 yr Art Academy's enrollment falls BY CLIFF PEALE | CINCINNATI ENQUIRER December 22, 2007 OVER-THE-RHINE - More than two years after it moved to a renovated building in Over-the-Rhine from its longtime home in Eden Park, the Art Academy of Cincinnati still feels the effects. Enrollment is down to about 145 students this year, compared to about 200 when the school was planning the fall 2005 move.
January 2, 200817 yr FreeStore FoodBank readies for expansion December 27, 2007 | CINCINNATI BUSINESS COURIER OVER-THE-RHINE - The FreeStore FoodBank has applied to the City of Cincinnati for three permits to demolish buildings in Over the Rhine and the West End as part of its ongoing expansion and renovation plans at its Liberty Street Client Services Center. [glow=yellow,2,300]Two of the properties will be demolished to make room for additional parking and access for tractor trailers.[/glow] Redevelopment plans for the third site, now home to a 35,000-square-foot office building, have not been announced. Demolition will be funded by money raised through the agency's $12 million capital campaign, which allocated $6 million for improvements at the center. The center, which operates out of several 100-year-old buildings, served more than 30,000 people this year, up from 12,000 in 2002. Several other buildings are scheduled to be destroyed as part of the FreeStore FoodBank plans following a Jan. 28 review by the city's Historic Conservation Board.
January 2, 200817 yr FreeStore FoodBank readies for expansion December 27, 2007 | CINCINNATI BUSINESS COURIER OVER-THE-RHINE - The FreeStore FoodBank has applied to the City of Cincinnati for three permits to demolish buildings in Over the Rhine and the West End as part of its ongoing expansion and renovation plans at its Liberty Street Client Services Center. [glow=yellow,2,300]Two of the properties will be demolished to make room for additional parking and access for tractor trailers.[/glow] Redevelopment plans for the third site, now home to a 35,000-square-foot office building, have not been announced. Demolition will be funded by money raised through the agency's $12 million capital campaign, which allocated $6 million for improvements at the center. The center, which operates out of several 100-year-old buildings, served more than 30,000 people this year, up from 12,000 in 2002. Several other buildings are scheduled to be destroyed as part of the FreeStore FoodBank plans following a Jan. 28 review by the city's Historic Conservation Board. Destroy is the right word. While there are numerous vacant lots and existing parking around, Freestore wants to continue to destroy the neighborhood by tearing down buildings for surface parking lots and loading docks. With CPS wanting to tear down Rothenberg to the north, "good intentions" will kill this neighborhood. Freestore serves 21 counties and over 54,000 unique clients a year from this location. They bring over 1.5 million tons of food through this facility a year. It is about the worst possible location for a facility that size, yet they want to grow. There is constant problems of littering and traffic from clients. They freely admit that the only reason they want to stay in OTR is because of the exposure to the public. They love the fact that the TV shows images of people lining up each year at Christmas and Thanksgiving (almost all from outside of OTR), that is the image they want to portray. At the preliminary hearing before the HCB, they stated that this was the right place for their clients and staff, and that they needed to be good stewards of their investors. Not a single word of concern for the residents and neighbors. Not one of these agencies cares a damn about the neighborhood they are located in. This map shows Freestore (red), the buildings they want to tear down (yellow), the buildings CPS wants to tear down (yellow north of McMicken), and existing surface parking in the neighborhood (blue). Why don't we cave in the the suburbanites and bulldoze the whole neighborhood? :x (Sorry, I'm a little cranky this morning, I just had to pay $100 to the city because I had my trash cans out a day early, while I watch the hookers, drug dealers, and people getting shot in the bar across the street continue about their merry way)
January 2, 200817 yr Destroy is the right word. While there are numerous vacant lots and existing parking around, Freestore wants to continue to destroy the neighborhood by tearing down buildings for surface parking lots and loading docks. With CPS wanting to tear down Rothenberg to the north, "good intentions" will kill this neighborhood. Freestore serves 21 counties and over 54,000 unique clients a year from this location. They bring over 1.5 million tons of food through this facility a year. It is about the worst possible location for a facility that size, yet they want to grow. There is constant problems of littering and traffic from clients. They freely admit that the only reason they want to stay in OTR is because of the exposure to the public. They love the fact that the TV shows images of people lining up each year at Christmas and Thanksgiving (almost all from outside of OTR), that is the image they want to portray. At the preliminary hearing before the HCB, they stated that this was the right place for their clients and staff, and that they needed to be good stewards of their investors. Not a single word of concern for the residents and neighbors. Not one of these agencies cares a damn about the neighborhood they are located in. This map shows Freestore (red), the buildings they want to tear down (yellow), the buildings CPS wants to tear down (yellow north of McMicken), and existing surface parking in the neighborhood (blue). Why don't we cave in the the suburbanites and bulldoze the whole neighborhood? :x (Sorry, I'm a little cranky this morning, I just had to pay $100 to the city because I had my trash cans out a day early, while I watch the hookers, drug dealers, and people getting shot in the bar across the street continue about their merry way) Wow, I had no idea. Good insight though. I'm glad to see the art academy moving in; I just don't think decreasing enrollment has much to do with the building or neighborhood, more to do with the fact that there's not much of a market for small art schools when you have DAAP and other colleges at state schools that are more respected for less than half the price.
January 2, 200817 yr And for the fun of it, here is the stellar piece of architecture they plan on putting in for the loading dock:
January 2, 200817 yr (Sorry, I'm a little cranky this morning, I just had to pay $100 to the city because I had my trash cans out a day early, while I watch the hookers, drug dealers, and people getting shot in the bar across the street continue about their merry way) ????? Just for putting your cans out early? Little Harsh!
January 2, 200817 yr ^ "Sec. 729-7. Setting Out Containers. It shall be the duty of every owner, tenant, agent, lessee, occupant and person in charge of any and every building, premises, or place of business in the city which does not abut on an alley, or which abuts an alley which is not accessible to trucks operated by the division of sanitation, or which is an unimproved alley, to place in properly closed regulation containers, all waste that is to be collected by the division of sanitation. Such containers shall be placed not more than three feet from the curb or curbline in front of any and every such building, premises or place of business no earlier than 5:00 p.m. on the day before the scheduled day of collection, but at least one-half hour before the time of collections; and the waste shall in all cases be kept outside of any fence, wall, enclosure, dwelling or building on the day of collection. Any exception to Section 729-7, because of unusual or extraordinary conditions, must be approved by the superintendent of the division of sanitation. Any city resident who is physically handicapped to the extent that such resident cannot set the week's accumulation of waste at the curb for collection can request and receive set-out service." The city won't allow for a warning, even. I appreciate the intent, but as usual the implementation sucks. The fun thing is if my cans are 4' from the curb they can't cite me for this, but maybe another section. I'd be curious how this is enforced in other parts of the city.
January 2, 200817 yr Yeah that's probably almost as much as my speeding ticket (I was going 75 on the highway during new year's eve) come on, everyone goes 75, it's the normal flow of traffic. If officers actually pulled people over consistantly after say...62 on a 55 or 72 on a 65 (taking into consideration margin of error), then people wouldn't speed so much. The trashcan thing is ridiculous though. If that happend to me I'd end up screaming at the city; they subcontracted Duke energy to replace infrastructure in front of our driveway, didn't even give us a notice before hand and blocked our cars in. We couldn't move them until cement dried a few days later. Can I fine them? They also tow cars on the street without giving people prior notice that they're about to do work. No posted signage anywhere to warn people. Injustice!
January 9, 200817 yr Opening gates for future development BY GEOFF PIPOLY | DOWNTOWNER January 8, 2008 OVER-THE-RHINE - The corner of 12th and Vine streets is a very different place as 2008 rolls in than it was even two years ago. The brownstone buildings that populate the street corner many of them over a century old which were dilapidated, vacant symbols of a neighborhood in decay, are now vibrant, multicolored symbols of the urban renaissance underway in Over-the-Rhine. The agent of change responsible for the rapid transformation in Cincinnati's most historic area is the Gateway Quarter District, and the initiative is positioned to continue expanding, taking the transformation beyond 12th and Vine streets to the rest of OTR. Phase II of the urban redevelopment project has already begun, and this phase will continue into 2008 and beyond, adding hundreds of new residential units along the way in the transitional neighborhood.
January 9, 200817 yr Man I can't wait to see what the gateway quarter is going to be like in 3-5 years. Does the planned streetcar go through any parts of the gateway quarter?
January 9, 200817 yr Yes. The streetcar will run down 12th St. from Main to Elm. The Gateway Quarter is centered at 12th and Vine. In fact, I don't think that the streetcar would even be considered if it were not for the 'Q'. Street Car Route Gateway Quarter
January 9, 200817 yr There is even the potential of the streetcar running along 12th & 14th instead of Central & 12th. This would push further into OTR and further into the upcoming Gateway Quarter expansions. Central Parkway really provides nothing (in terms of destinations aka dots) for the streetcar to connect...however by bumping it up to 14th you hit more residential, go further up on Main Street and put more of 3CDC's projects within spitting distance of the line.
January 9, 200817 yr Going across 13th and through the park seemed cool when it was floated, but it seems to have been shot down. 14th is much narrower than 13th for some reason, and I don't think it could work. Plus 14th ends/jogs at Vine, which would be a kink.
January 10, 200817 yr Where do discussions actually stand with regards to the streetcar? Is this something that is actually being seriously considered? it would be absolutely great...
January 10, 200817 yr Where do discussions actually stand with regards to the streetcar? Is this something that is actually being seriously considered? it would be absolutely great... Yes this is seriously being considered...right now it is awaiting final approval of the full Finance Committee and from there I believe it will go on to City Council for a final vote. Both the Finance Committee and City Council have a majority vote for this to pass...it just needs to be put on the agenda for the Finance Committee.
January 10, 200817 yr Where do discussions actually stand with regards to the streetcar? Is this something that is actually being seriously considered? it would be absolutely great... This thread pretty much covers everything streetcar related: Cincinnati streetcars and light rail **Edited to be more concise**
January 10, 200817 yr [Yes this is seriously being considered...right now it is awaiting final approval of the full Finance Committee and from there I believe it will go on to City Council for a final vote. Unfortunately, someone on the finance committee is trying to hold up the project. I encourage you to send letters to everyone on council supporting the project.
January 10, 200817 yr Unfortunately, someone on the finance committee is trying to hold up the project Who DAT!? I want names!!! :x
January 10, 200817 yr ^Well the chairman of the Finance Committee is the only one with authority to get items put on the agenda.
January 10, 200817 yr Great article by Geoff, he is a true go getter who is also very involved in Main Street issues as well.
January 15, 200817 yr [cross posted in CPS thread] Some great news! Rosa Blackwell recommended renovating historic Rothenberg School (instead of demolishing it) in Over-the-Rhine last night at the BOE meeting. Note that this is not final until the board votes to accept her recommendation, but this is a HUGE victory for the neighborhood and the schools.
January 15, 200817 yr I know we have our differences on this Mike, but I see the following: 1. a historic building is saved. 2. a currently vacant building is reoccupied. 3. CPS doesn't waste time and money finding another site. 4. the kids get a fantastic school sooner rather than later.
January 15, 200817 yr I know we have our differences on this Mike, but I see the following: 1. a historic building is saved. 2. a currently vacant building is reoccupied. 3. CPS doesn't waste time and money finding another site. 4. the kids get a fantastic school sooner rather than later. agreed, and that is certainly one way to look at it and if this is the way it pans out than I will jump on the bandwagon but I see the following: 1. A Great Non-Profit that was considering the site has decided to build a new building instead and leaving downtown. 2. The 200 plus people they could have brought will not A. Have lunch on Main at places like Kaldi's or Courtyard or the soon to come Martinos B. Go to Happy Hour at Miltons, Mr. Pitifuls, or the soon to come Speakeasy C. Purchase a home or rent an apartment in the general vicinity D. Go to any art gallery on Main or Pendleton, or spur any new boutique shops 3. A historic building would have been saved under this senerio as well 4. An empty building would have been reocupied while retaining a business in the downtown area But as I said, this ship has now sailed so yeah school! The general economic impact that Cincinnati neighborhood schools have on their surrounding communities are......well never mind, yeah school!
January 15, 200817 yr I would have loved to see a business/reputable non-profit move in there as well, but it has always been slated to be renovated as a school. I think we can both agree CPS mishandled the whole situation, by delaying Rothenberg's renovation, recommending it's demolition, and general lack of communication. The general economic impact that Cincinnati neighborhood schools have on their surrounding communities are......well never mind, yeah school! On a general note, I know that CPS schools (at least of the neighborhood variety) are not held in high regard. I would like to think that renovating Rothenberg is a positive step in building them back up to a respectable, important part of the neighborhood that is a draw for families, businesses, and the like. I want to be able to send my kids to the public school, that's what everyone in the 'burbs claims is their rationale. A good public school system is an economic draw. It's not going to be easy, but I think it's important to fight for.
January 15, 200817 yr you and I are going to have to disagree in this specific case. A CPS neighborhood school is not a draw for those families in the 'burbs' a magnet school is. I just really feel that we have focused our efforts in the wrong direction here. Does it help Vernon Rader? Does it help North Main? Does it help Doug Spitz? Are those people with children in the burbs going to move to OTR so they can put their kids in Rothenburg? Will current families with children on streets such as Mulberry put their children in Rothenburg? I seriously doubt it. Rothenburg existed as a school before, and to what benefit? Vine St. Elem exist as a school now and to what benefit? A good public school system is an economic draw. The system yes, a specific neighborhood school that will be as lack luster as the rest of CPS's neighborhood schools is not. Otherwise, how is their curriculum going to differ, how will their teaching methods differ? They will not and the "system" will stay the same. We were trapped in a mode of thinking that was firmly 'in the box.' This is where the uphill battle is in OTR. We say we are the creative class but can not visualize anything other than the stated obvious--a school has to be a school. And this happens beyond just this one building, we repeat the same line of thinking because it is generally coming from the same people over and over again and to what avail...change? progress? not in my opinion. delaying Rothenberg's renovation, recommending it's demolition, and general lack of communication. How much longer do you think the delay will be now that one levy has gone down, and how much longer when the next goes down as well? GBBN was the one who stated that it was cheaper to build new than renovate, and if it were true that CPS recommended the demo then why would "Rosa Blackwell recommended renovating historic Rothenberg School (instead of demolishing it)" Rothenberg was never going to be torn down. These are fear tactics that "we" put out there to get "our" way. Am I wrong? it has always been slated to be renovated as a school So was Bloom but the way Rothenburg had been explained to me was the "neighborhood demanded it" and stepped on its own foot in the process by missing other opportunities that they did not care to entertain.
January 15, 200817 yr A renovated school wasn't what I was hoping, I wanted CPS to sell it off and it get turned into condos etc. Vine st should have been the area school. Next battle-Freestore Foodbank! 8-)
January 15, 200817 yr well considering the city does not take into consideration proximity to schools in their decisions to fund such programs, Rothenburg doesn't help us there either.
January 15, 200817 yr 1. A Great Non-Profit that was considering the site has decided to build a new building instead and leaving downtown. Not to jump in between neighbors but is the non-profit co. your eluding to, the Red Cross? Aren't they building new in Hyde Park? http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=333.msg240901#msg240901
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