February 6, 200817 yr Some good news, though, it does sound like the Mercer Commons site is close to being sold back to Eagle/Western Southern. That would be fantastic!!!
February 6, 200817 yr When this is all done we will have two big moth-balled performance spaces within about three blocks of each other that should find some productive use. . . The theater in SCPA and the Emery Theater which supposedly has the best acoustics in town.
February 6, 200817 yr One issue with CPS selling the property, is that any building suitable for educational use has to be offered to a charter school first. Hopefully the new administration in Columbus will help change that ridiculous law. That would be a bigger issue if there were not other like properties in the immediate area to help dilute that risk, so if Pendleton was truly concerned with this, then they should advocate for the sale of Rothenburg as well. (Always looking for the angle :wink:) Steve, what are some of the change of use issues with either SCPA or Rothenburg to condos, vs another adaptive use such as office?
February 6, 200817 yr ^ Personally, I think they're both more suited to residential. I think you have a lot more flexibility with residential designs, and the typical classroom modules are good sized spaces to work with. Offices tend to need to be a more flexible floorplate, and seem like they would need more interior demolition (though this can vary based on the specific client). Residential also allows for smaller individual mechanical units, instead of one common system for the building. Sprinklers and elevators would be needed for either. Again, depending on the specific office client, I think that typically a residential use allows for a more creative incorporation of existing details, finishes, etc.
February 6, 200817 yr Offices tend to need to be a more flexible floorplate, and seem like they would need more interior demolition (though this can vary based on the specific client). Residential also allows for smaller individual mechanical units, instead of one common system for the building. Sprinklers and elevators would be needed for either. I see a much higher cost on residential vs (especially single tenant) office. Efficiency of the floorplate may be lower but that efficiency is the same in residential or office but I believe that there may be more flexibility in the office due to the setup of a school that already fits an office type design. Usable area is usable area regardless of the product but the quality of an area can be lower for a work environment vs a live environment. I see office as the most reasonable for reasons of bathrooms, and the common areas in a school that lends itself to that type of conversion. Also, what is the difference in economic impact? Cannibalism from existing residential projects to possibly feeding current developments or better yet, spurring more residential development to meet the new demand initiated by the tenant vs injecting excess residential supply. That being said, I certainly have the minority opinion on this topic. they would need more interior demolition Is this going to be more of a problem, depending on const materials found for a residential project? Aren't we dealing with two vastly different building code requirements? Which brings me to const cost of residential that would include gas lines, additional electric, fire separations, and a whole host of building issues that are not as prevalent in office.
February 6, 200817 yr I was thinking in terms of the building itself, not in terms of the overall neighborhood development. I would love to have offices in those buildings, or even mixed-use. I do worry about the short term impact of such a large residential project on the other projects in the neighborhood, and mixed use is what OTR needs to be a true urban 24-hour neighborhood. In terms of the costs, either use is going to require all new mechanical, electrical, and plumbing systems. Also, either use is going to have some issues with converting the unique spaces in a school. Fire separations are going to be an minimal issue because the building will probably have to be sprinkled whichever use it becomes. If you're looking at just SF cost numbers, then yes residential will cost more. In terms of the architectural integrity, it all depends on how open the office plan needs to be or how many different tenants it needs to incorporate. A single tenant office use would probably be the simplest overall conversion.
February 7, 200817 yr I was thinking in terms of the building itself, not in terms of the overall neighborhood development. One is married to the other in my opinion that is why I feel strongly about use of various properties, especially Rothenburg. Perhaps we could have a world wide headquarters for Hampton Architects located there.
February 7, 200817 yr I was thinking in terms of the building itself, not in terms of the overall neighborhood development. One is married to the other in my opinion that is why I feel strongly about use of various properties, especially Rothenburg. Perhaps we could have a world wide headquarters for Hampton Architects located there. dubai, get in on the action
February 7, 200817 yr dubai, get in on the action Good point, and we could even get a Dubai architect, Denny, to help you design it!
February 7, 200817 yr Does anyone know a good source (book, movie, etc.) that details the history of some of the buildings in OTR?
February 7, 200817 yr "The Bicentennial Guide to Cincinnati" and "Cincinnati Observed" are both very good. They are available at the public library, at the Ohio Bookstore downtown, and of course online as well.
February 7, 200817 yr Does anyone know a good source (book, movie, etc.) that details the history of some of the buildings in OTR? Traffic gave a detailed, inside look :wink: kidding people, just kidding.
February 8, 200817 yr There is a building by building description of the neighborhood in a book by Robert Wimberg, "Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine, A Historical Guide to 19th Century Buildings and Their Residents", published by The Ohio Bookstore, 726 Main Street. It was published in the late 1980s and some of the buildings have since been demolished.
February 8, 200817 yr 3CDC pursuing $81M in federal, state tax credits Money would help agency revitalize OTR, downtown BY LUCY MAY | CINCINNATI BUSINESS COURIER February 8, 2008 CINCINNATI - The Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. will seek $75 million in New Markets Tax Credits to continue its redevelopment work in Over-the-Rhine and downtown north of Fifth Street. The economic development agency, known as 3CDC, won a $50 million New Markets Tax Credits allocation in 2004. But the agency essentially has used up those credits on its revitalization of Fountain Square and development of condos and commercial space in Over-the-Rhine, said 3CDC President and CEO Stephen Leeper.
February 8, 200817 yr Thanks for the info, I'll check those out. Did anyone else attend the kickoff for phase III of the Gateway Quarter today. The mayor spoke, 3CDC and the development teams all had people there. It was a good turnout, and nice to see the AM/PM market come down. The plans for Trinity Flats look pretty cool.
February 9, 200817 yr ^^If it were residential it wouldn't be at $150K for a building with it's history I would say that $350K wouldn't be out of the question. I know that downtown desperately needs cheaper condos but this is just my opinion I also would like to see the building adapted for office space and much of the outside footprint reclaimed for commercial space.
February 10, 200817 yr >Hopefully that can SPCA can be sold as When I was a kid I thought the SCPA and SPCA were somehow the same organization. I only had a vague idea in my mind of both buildings. I was also confused by the NCAA and NAACP. Then NWA released their first record, forcing the NWA to change to WCW.
February 10, 200817 yr This is a very random and possibly stupid question - but what is that large building taking up the block between Sycamore and Broadway north of East 13th street?
February 10, 200817 yr ^That is the current SCPA (School for Creative and Performing Arts), and was the old Woodward High. The school is moving to a new building at Elm and Central Parkway in fall 2009 and the discussion above is about what will happen to that building when CPS sells it.
February 10, 200817 yr Trinity Flats - Did I miss that somewhere on this page? Never heard of it. I'm pretty sure it is one of the buildings in the next 3CDC phase. Some of those floorplans/renderings would be nice though...
February 10, 200817 yr Do any of the threads have any pictures of what, looks to be newer infill buildings on Walnut north of Central?
February 10, 200817 yr Model is doing Trinity Flats where the tear down just took place at 14th and Vine and part of the Q. I will make sure the renderings get posted on here. Do any of the threads have any pictures of what, looks to be newer infill buildings on Walnut north of Central? Mercer Commons?
February 10, 200817 yr Check out some of these photos: http://gallery.rrdphoto.com/gallery/4313148_5M3We
February 11, 200817 yr The new building we went through - I believe it's called Trideca Flats? I couldn't find it anywhere on the internet. I believe Model Group was doing it, but it wasn't on their website. I couldn't even find the name when I Google'd it. I don't know if I'm even spelling it right! Someone help!
February 11, 200817 yr The new building we went through - I believe it's called Trideca Flats? I couldn't find it anywhere on the internet. I believe Model Group was doing it, but it wasn't on their website. I couldn't even find the name when I Google'd it. I don't know if I'm even spelling it right! Someone help! That is an Urban Sites building. You recieved one of the first inside glimpses of what is coming so you will not find it anywhere yet. The name comes from the triangular decks that will be on the building, they are not installed yet. To get the others take on the tour, here is a list provided by Kevin. Some have posted, others we are still waiting to see. There are some great accounts of first impressions in these post and I encourage everyone to comment on the various threads so that we may hear some feadback from you. I am hoping to do one of these for every time a new phase is announced. * Building-Cincinnati * Buy Cincy * Cincy Images * CityKin * ekalb * Get Cincy * Jackie Danicki * Joe Wessels * Northern Kentucky News * Queen City Survey * RRD Photo Blog * The 'Nati Life * Urban Cincy (sorry I could not figure out how to provide a link on these)
February 12, 200817 yr Some (tentative) good news today. The Historic Conservation Board denied the Certificate of Appropriateness for the proposed Freestore/Foodbank demolitions of 1606 Walnut, 1608 Walnut, 1630 Walnut, and 104 Corwine. This doesn't mean that they won't be back, but it's a start.
February 12, 200817 yr ^That is pretty AWESOME! I'm glad it's brick...and I'm really glad that they incorporated some neat looking balconies. The corner feature on the building is also a nice touch.
February 12, 200817 yr Don't like the corner feature much but it is 10 times nicer than what was there before. Also it makes a nice lookout tower for the residents to see drug deals going down closer to Krogers and they can call the cops and clear the thugs off that street.
February 12, 200817 yr hopefully this rendering has glazed over the finer architectural details which do this corner justice. it seems through their website that this company has some experience in OTR which means they are familiar and hopefully senstitive to the architecture of the neighborhood. though rudamentary, that rendering does do a good job of illustrating a restored continuity to that street. one way or another a welcomed addition for sure
February 12, 200817 yr First Impressions are a Wonderful Thing BY BRAD HAWSE | URBANCINCY February 11, 2008 OVER-THE-RHINE - The dynamic, eclectic, increasingly safe micro-neighborhood known as the Gateway Quarter is the latest chapter in seemingly unending book of urban revitalization efforts in Cincinnati. The Gateway Quarter is reinventing Over-the Rhine in many ways. The work by Cincinnati Center City Development Corporation (3CDC) continues to bring quality redevelopment efforts to an area town that has seen better days. I had the opportunity, along with some other members of the Cincinnati blogging community, to take a tour of the latest projects that 3CDC is developing. It is important to note that in previous attempts to revitalize OTR, the incrementalized approach helped incorporate many constituencies in the effort, but in the end, did not create that critical mass of residents, that would sustain growth. The new approach, by 3CDC, is to buy up a large portion of entire blocks, in order to create a more complete developmental pattern. It seems as though 3CDC understands that perception is OTR’s biggest enemy and that in order to change that they would have to condition their developments to create positive energy, and positive perception. They have done a wonderful job so far. All of the units that we toured, Centennial Row, Duncanson Lofts, Gateway Condos, and Duveneck Flats, were all very unique in their unit layout and design. As we walked through all of the different options it was apparent how distinctive this kind of tour was. They were selling the neighborhood, as much as the actual units. Instead of each developer promoting their property to the buyers, this group was able to come together, and create a cooperative environment that should set an example for other development corporations. It is hard not to get wrapped up in the vibrant, effervescent reaction that these developments give off. I feel confident that the work will continue, that the momentum is gaining, and that even now, this is a neighborhood that we should be proud of. Pictures of the building interiors/surroundings are on the way...
February 12, 200817 yr ^ Thats great i really like the blending of the old with the new, and having balconies will really add character and life to the neighborhood. Is this the project that is projected to be finished in the fall?
February 12, 200817 yr Trinity Flats rendering: The size and proportions are good. Storefronts, good. Strong corner, good. Not so sure about the round tower. It could come together with good details. Thanks for posting, I've been wondering about this.
February 12, 200817 yr Here is a crappy angled shot I took of the floor plans amidst the teardown of the AM/PM
February 12, 200817 yr Thanks guys for posting the drawings. The floor plan is pretty interesting. What is fascinating to me is that this is going on that corner. 14th and Vine has been a disaster for as long as I can remember. This project is transformational. I was also noticing that Model just completed a rehab across Vine Street from this that is a low-income project. Interesting that they are still pursuing both paths in the same block. I think it's great.
February 12, 200817 yr I don't like that round corner or the balconies in those renderings at all. The beauty of OTR is how well preserved it is. These buildings are still gorgeous (even if run down) 100+ years after their construction, and I'm afraid that the new architectural elements that are being grafted onto the exterior of these buildings will look very dated in 20 to 30 years. I love the fact that these old gems are finally being restored, but I wish that the developers would stick to working with the interiors and leave the classic facades alone. That being said, I'm okay with this being done to a couple of buildings, because it might lend some variety to the area, but I certainly hope that this won't be the norm as OTR revitalizes. It just seems like this is chipping away at the historical character that we all love about OTR.
February 12, 200817 yr Trinity Flats is new construction, no new elements being grafted onto existing structures.
February 12, 200817 yr Oh, it is? I thought that it was a rendering of the building(s) in the picture that Michael Redmond posted just above in the thread. In that case, I love it! My mistake entirely! Thanks for setting me straight.
February 12, 200817 yr Oh, it is? I thought that it was a rendering of the building(s) in the picture that Michael Redmond posted just above in the thread. In that case, I love it! My mistake entirely! Thanks for setting me straight. No, I was beaten to the punch on posting Trinity Flats. I posted Tridecka, which is just north of Duveneck. Trinity Flats is a new const piece where they just took down a block building at the corner of 14th and Vine. It will continue to get a bit more confusing as more and more buildings are announced. I do not know if has been mentioned on here or not but a new store, I believe simply called outside, will be opening on the 12th street side of 12th and Vine. They will primarily focus on outdoor furniture. I do not know of the opening date yet. Great writeup UncleRando, "It is hard not to get wrapped up in the vibrant, effervescent reaction that these developments give off. I feel confident that the work will continue, that the momentum is gaining, and that even now, this is a neighborhood that we should be proud of."
February 12, 200817 yr Oh, it is? I thought that it was a rendering of the building(s) in the picture that Michael Redmond posted just above in the thread. In that case, I love it! My mistake entirely! Thanks for setting me straight. Yup you can see images of the buildings that were taken down here: http://www.citykin.com/2008/02/demo-of-vine-street-buildings.html
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