so included in the plan would be sidewalk repair, signage, paving, and buried lines?

 

Any timeframe for completion?

Speaking of which....has the much delayed streetscape been scraped?  Given the questionable economic viability of the city, I didn't know if a project like that would be indefinitely delayed.

 

The streetscaping was pushed back until a spring start instead of this winter.  Vine Street businesses owners requested this delay so that the construction wouldn't interfere with their holiday business.  What you'll see is the streetscaping go from Central Parkway up to 14th Street area in the first phase (eventually extending up to Liberty).

 

and i'd like a gateway. i doubt either of us get our wish soon.

 

From my point of view I think the whole gateway feature idea has been scraped.  I'm not sure it was ever a real possibility to begin with, but you never know I guess.

and i'd like a gateway. i doubt either of us get our wish soon.

 

From my point of view I think the whole gateway feature idea has been scraped.  I'm not sure it was ever a real possibility to begin with, but you never know I guess.

 

You ever see the structures that extend over and across the street in the Short North?  I think something like that would be really nice.

 

EDIT: Fixed quote box

Fairfield is putting one in on Rt 4.  While I made fun of their attempt, I agree this would be cool in a more urban setting like OTR. 

They often have these gateways at Chinatowns

I don't like that idea. First, those arches are very costly. Columbus spent 1.5 million on them through city funds and making High an Improvement District. Though I'm sure it was a good investment for Italian/Victorian Village, I think 1.5 million could be put to better use on Vine street. Hell, for that amount, you could subsidize the hell out of a large organic grocer. Secondly, why create a psychological divide between that street and the others that run parallel? The mix of businesses and residents on Vine aren't much different economically or culturally than on Main. Lastly, those arches on High exist because it's part of the neighborhood's history. Columbus was the "arch city" so those arches make perfect sense in that specific location. From photos I've seen of OTR, I don't recall them existing on Vine but I could be wrong. Given High St.'s width, the arches sort of make the street feel more intimate and visually/psychologically connect both sides of the street better. OTR's streets already have that inherent advantage from being so narrow. Of course more lighting in OTR would definitely be a good thing, but they probably would have to find a way in which it makes sense historically and would cater to all parts of at least the southern half of OTR. Arches exist on Short Vine - for some odd reason, it has done absolutely nothing to help the neighborhood in terms of investment or decrease in crime, but maybe we can blame that on Kroger. I think the Short Vine lights are too spread apart and poorly designed. What are they, orange or something like that? I also noticed the bulbs are too big. At least they make sense on Short Vine for the same reason they make sense on High St. though. Just my opinion!

^ Good points, David.

 

I wouldn't mind some sort of entrance arch though, maybe when entering into OTR.

I tend to agree with many of the points David made.  This would create a barrier of sorts between Vine and the surrounding streets and is not something that would be desirable.  Also the cost of this kind of thing would be pretty high and might be better spent on lighting throughout OTR...an issue that is one of the most pressing if you ask me.

Gateway's don't need to be arches. They can be a variety of things that just say "Hello you're entering something new." Cincinnati has several for the city and not all are arches (though I mean gateway kinda implies arches or an arch). They help identify places and are a piece of art that help create a more interesting and exciting space. You don't need several running the whole street just something to say "This is the gateway quarter, welcome, this is an interesting place that you should check out." It's not essential or "the most pressing" it's just an observation that there is no gateway to the gateway quarter which seems a bit counter intuitive. I guess the whole are is a gateway into OTR or something, but there's nothing wrong with place making.

There are parking lots ACROSS the street. How lazy have we become, that we now require parking lots next to buildings so that they will not have to cross the street? Have crosswalks fallen out of favor? Have our teachers and administrators become incredebly lazy? OTR is one of the best representations of historic urban density in the United States (and the largest national historic district), and any further demolitions will only disfavor the notion that Cincinnati is going all out to protect its treasures.

 

Rothenberg rebuilding plans at odds

One neighborhood group wants teardowns; one opposed

By Ben Fischer, Cincinnati Enquirer, December 22, 2008

 

OVER-THE-RHINE - Dueling proposals to renovate Over-the-Rhine's last remaining public elementary school have split the neighborhood over the fate of four nearby buildings.

 

Cincinnati Public Schools is preparing plans to overhaul the now-vacant Rothenberg Preparatory Academy at the intersection of McMicken Street, E. Clifton Avenue and Main Street. The district is still working to purchase all the property it needs for the expansion.

There are parking lots ACROSS the street. How lazy have we become, that we now require parking lots next to buildings so that they will not have to cross the street? Have crosswalks fallen out of favor? Have our teachers and administrators become incredebly lazy?

 

Especially when all the students have to walk to school already.

I see the parking lot issue as more of stance on keeping all school entities safer.  Mostly, I feel that the parking would be for faculty but also guests.  If the school provides an "oasis" or sanctuary for all guests, workers, and parents, no one will complain about lack of safety in crossing the street.  No one will complain about having their car broken into on a neighborhood street.

 

In turn, I believe they think that will make the school more appealing to prospective students' parents, prospective employees, and existing parents and employees.  I don't entirely agree with it, believe me.  I'd rather see the buildings stay as they are, no matter what.  Let's face it though.  That area of the neighborhood won't turn around for at least five to ten years, as the area of East Clifton west to Vine needs a lot of work.  This is there way of saying, "Hey, we're making the entire project a safer and more viable one."

 

Eh.

I live in Indianapolis and drool over Over-the-Rhine's density and architecture. It places Cincinnati far ahead of other Midwestern cities in that aspect. This article upsets me in the fact that (as mentioned above) it's pure laziness. It isn't just about the funds or safety, it is the same behavior that lead us to these hand fulls of surface lots into our downtown areas. A city of Cincinnati's size to have density that Over-the-Rhine has is something unique to the Midwest.

 

They should build around the history. Not destroy it.  :x

They should build around the history. Not destroy it.  :x

Amen!

Once again, we are asked to sacrifice history and beauty on the alter of the automobile. I say keep the other plan and let the fat lazy bastards walk! lol

Once again, we are asked to sacrifice history and beauty on the alter of the automobile. I say keep the other plan and let the fat lazy bastards walk! lol

 

The problem is that the economics of cities have changed since OTR was built. OTR is very unique in that it's so dense but to accommodate the number of people that OTR could potentially hold, it has to happen. Even people who choose to live in such a dense area are going to demand parking or else they won't buy and the city itself requires a number of parking spaces. The only way I could see OTR  avoiding that issue entirely is if they had a subway and light rail or at the very least, stellar bus service that professionals in Cincinnati were suddenly willing to ride. The destruction of OTR is probably the best argument for the streetcar proposal. It's not like parking garages adhere to the historic character of the neighborhood and in and of itself would cause violence to the neighborhood in the same manner a surface lot would. You know what I would love - is if warehouses in OTR could be converted into parking garages, with the economics working well. Kinda like how Portland has gas stations that obviously cater to cars, but they're brick buildings that add to the aesthetics at least.

In turn, I believe they think that will make the school more appealing to prospective students' parents, prospective employees, and existing parents and employees.  I don't entirely agree with it, believe me.  I'd rather see the buildings stay as they are, no matter what.  Let's face it though.  That area of the neighborhood won't turn around for at least five to ten years, as the area of East Clifton west to Vine needs a lot of work.  This is there way of saying, "Hey, we're making the entire project a safer and more viable one."

 

That area of OTR isn't all that bad in terms of crime if you ask me.

^Tell that to the parents of children who would be attending the school.  Parents usually have a greater concern for their own than the broader view we have.

Ok, I will.

Once again, we are asked to sacrifice history and beauty on the alter of the automobile. I say keep the other plan and let the fat lazy bastards walk! lol

 

The problem is that the economics of cities have changed since OTR was built. OTR is very unique in that it's so dense but to accommodate the number of people that OTR could potentially hold, it has to happen. Even people who choose to live in such a dense area are going to demand parking or else they won't buy and the city itself requires a number of parking spaces. The only way I could see OTR avoiding that issue entirely is if they had a subway and light rail or at the very least, stellar bus service that professionals in Cincinnati were suddenly willing to ride. The destruction of OTR is probably the best argument for the streetcar proposal. It's not like parking garages adhere to the historic character of the neighborhood and in and of itself would cause violence to the neighborhood in the same manner a surface lot would. You know what I would love - is if warehouses in OTR could be converted into parking garages, with the economics working well. Kinda like how Portland has gas stations that obviously cater to cars, but they're brick buildings that add to the aesthetics at least.

 

I know all that. But parking is made available, its just not at the front door, its across the street. If these teachers are anything like the ones I had in school, alittle walking will do them good!

Ok, I will.

 

LOL!

Once again, we are asked to sacrifice history and beauty on the alter of the automobile. I say keep the other plan and let the fat lazy bastards walk! lol

 

The problem is that the economics of cities have changed since OTR was built. OTR is very unique in that it's so dense but to accommodate the number of people that OTR could potentially hold, it has to happen. Even people who choose to live in such a dense area are going to demand parking or else they won't buy and the city itself requires a number of parking spaces. The only way I could see OTR avoiding that issue entirely is if they had a subway and light rail or at the very least, stellar bus service that professionals in Cincinnati were suddenly willing to ride. The destruction of OTR is probably the best argument for the streetcar proposal. It's not like parking garages adhere to the historic character of the neighborhood and in and of itself would cause violence to the neighborhood in the same manner a surface lot would. You know what I would love - is if warehouses in OTR could be converted into parking garages, with the economics working well. Kinda like how Portland has gas stations that obviously cater to cars, but they're brick buildings that add to the aesthetics at least.

 

I know all that. But parking is made available, its just not at the front door, its across the street. If these teachers are anything like the ones I had in school, alittle walking will do them good!

 

I'm just saying in general.

This ain't sim city! *poof* Subway!

^Tell that to the parents of children who would be attending the school.  Parents usually have a greater concern for their own than the broader view we have.

 

The parents of Rothenberg students already live in the neighborhood.  It is a neighborhood school, not a magnet school, and is meant to be walked to.

 

And without going into a lot of detail at the moment, the safety issue is a load of bunk.  In fact, having parking across the street and integrating it into the neighborhood provides more activity and eyes on the street than any self-contained parking ever would.  An walkable urban neighborhood does not need more fortresses where you drive in and drive out without experiencing the neighborhood.

Well, I was playing devil's advocate, and arguing on their behalf.  But really, I don't agree with it either, as I mentioned a page back.  Parking across the street would definitely serve the school better.  In fact, those 4 buildings would probably shield the schoolyard from some traffic and neighborhood noise.  It is a bit within its own enclave.

^Tell that to the parents of children who would be attending the school.  Parents usually have a greater concern for their own than the broader view we have.

 

Actually, one of the problems is that there is not enough parent involvement in the schools (and this particular design process).  The OTREPS group is run by OTRCH, and has claimed to speak for all parents while having their own agenda.

Ahh.  Well, my mistake then.  I'm not quite sure what the solution is then.

Once again, we are asked to sacrifice history and beauty on the alter of the automobile. I say keep the other plan and let the fat lazy bastards walk! lol

 

The problem is that the economics of cities have changed since OTR was built. OTR is very unique in that it's so dense but to accommodate the number of people that OTR could potentially hold, it has to happen. Even people who choose to live in such a dense area are going to demand parking or else they won't buy and the city itself requires a number of parking spaces. The only way I could see OTR  avoiding that issue entirely is if they had a subway and light rail or at the very least, stellar bus service that professionals in Cincinnati were suddenly willing to ride. The destruction of OTR is probably the best argument for the streetcar proposal. It's not like parking garages adhere to the historic character of the neighborhood and in and of itself would cause violence to the neighborhood in the same manner a surface lot would. You know what I would love - is if warehouses in OTR could be converted into parking garages, with the economics working well. Kinda like how Portland has gas stations that obviously cater to cars, but they're brick buildings that add to the aesthetics at least.

 

I know all that. But parking is made available, its just not at the front door, its across the street. If these teachers are anything like the ones I had in school, alittle walking will do them good!

 

I'm just saying in general.

This ain't sim city! *poof* Subway!

 

LOL If only life was that simple. Can you see the sarcasm? lol 

The Segway store is running out of Winter '08.

 

According to the sign in the window, that's when they are opening.

Gateway's don't need to be arches. They can be a variety of things that just say "Hello you're entering something new." Cincinnati has several for the city and not all are arches (though I mean gateway kinda implies arches or an arch). They help identify places and are a piece of art that help create a more interesting and exciting space. You don't need several running the whole street just something to say "This is the gateway quarter, welcome, this is an interesting place that you should check out." It's not essential or "the most pressing" it's just an observation that there is no gateway to the gateway quarter which seems a bit counter intuitive. I guess the whole are is a gateway into OTR or something, but there's nothing wrong with place making.

 

This is very true.  North Halstead in Chicago uses rainbow colored pylons as the gateway marker to the neighborhood.  It defines the neighborhood and lets everyone know it is gay friendly.  A simple pylon  placed at various points along the street would serve the purpose.

The Segway store is running out of Winter '08.

 

According to the sign in the window, that's when they are opening.

 

I talked to the guy opening the store a week or two ago and he said they should be open in February. 

The Segway store is running out of Winter '08.

 

According to the sign in the window, that's when they are opening.

 

I talked to the guy opening the store a week or two ago and he said they should be open in February.

 

really, who buys a segway in the dead of winter?

Gateway's don't need to be arches. They can be a variety of things that just say "Hello you're entering something new." Cincinnati has several for the city and not all are arches (though I mean gateway kinda implies arches or an arch). They help identify places and are a piece of art that help create a more interesting and exciting space. You don't need several running the whole street just something to say "This is the gateway quarter, welcome, this is an interesting place that you should check out." It's not essential or "the most pressing" it's just an observation that there is no gateway to the gateway quarter which seems a bit counter intuitive. I guess the whole are is a gateway into OTR or something, but there's nothing wrong with place making.

 

This is very true. North Halstead in Chicago uses rainbow colored pylons as the gateway marker to the neighborhood. It defines the neighborhood and lets everyone know it is gay friendly. A simple pylon placed at various points along the street would serve the purpose.

 

I agree with this idea.  Definitely not rainbow pylons for OTR, but unique streetscaping or wayfinding systems are nice touches that go a long way.  I wish every city had what Cleveland has in terms of wayfinding.

Cincinnati nonprofit plans housing for homeless in OTR

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/01/05/daily36.html

 

Over-the-Rhine Community Housing is moving forward with plans to build long-term, supportive housing for the chronically homeless.

 

The affordable housing agency has been working nearly all year on the 25-unit development on Odeon Street in Over-the-Rhine. It is calling the project The Jimmy Heath House after the late community activist and photojournalist who was once a homeless alcoholic, said Mary Burke Rivers, the agency’s executive director.

For those not aware, long term supportive housing means that chronically homeless individuals will be housed there, with no requirements to be in an alcohol/drug treatment program or to be employed.  Residents will be allowed to drink alcohol in their rooms.  No restrictions will be placed on them, other then controlling access to the building, which means they can continue to get high/drunk in the park and then go inside to sleep it off.

 

Surprisingly, I'm actually in favor of projects like this, as studies have shown the overall costs to the public (via policing, jail time, hospital costs) are higher then providing a safe place to live for these individuals.  However, this is absolutely the wrong place for it.  Locating individuals with substance abuse problems in a neighborhood still fighting to get rid of drugs is ludicrous, and won't help either the individuals or the neighborhood.  I'm not sure what 3CDC hopes to gain out of this particular project, but as with other recent moves such as the relocation of the transitional housing to East McMicken Street, I can't help but think this is wasting millions of dollars that could be spent in a more productive way.

OTR Community Housing and the Drop Inn Center still own tons of vacant buildings.  While sitting on these, they are proposing to take on buildings that they don't even own.  Look at these vacant buildings that they own all around OTR: 1519 Pleasant, 202 Mulberry, 1528 Elm, 209 Mulberry, 1412 Republic, 28 W 13th, 20 W 13th, 1636 Main, 1405 Republic, 1930 Vine, 208 Peete, 1500 Elm, 1522 Elm, 1433 Elm, 220 East Clifton  This is an incomplete list but gives you an idea about the extent of the problem.

You have to wonder what 3CDC is thinking on this one. They're absolutely shooting themselves in the foot.

 

I would be up in arms if I was one of the new condo owners down there. I'm sure this isn't what they signed up for.

You have to wonder what 3CDC is thinking on this one. They're absolutely shooting themselves in the foot.

 

I would be up in arms if I was one of the new condo owners down there. I'm sure this isn't what they signed up for.

 

lol ... they know what they're doing and everybody knows what's going on.

You have to wonder what 3CDC is thinking on this one. They're absolutely shooting themselves in the foot.

 

I would be up in arms if I was one of the new condo owners down there. I'm sure this isn't what they signed up for.

 

lol ... they know what they're doing and everybody knows what's going on.

 

Hey, I'm all for diversity, but keeping these folks around an area that you're aggressively trying to turn around is madness. It seems to me they're making concesions to the old-time OTR activists and NAACP, to show them that they're not just for gentrification.

It seems to me they're making concessions to the old-time OTR activists and NAACP, to show them that they're not just for gentrification.

 

It does certainly come across that way, but I wonder if they got something in return for their help in this project.

^ Makes sense. Hopefully 3CDC is making this concession in order to secure their support for more meaningful projects, a little Quid Pro Quo.

 

 

Saw the "Green Depot" sign reappeared on Vine St, this time one door south.  Anybody have any details?

Where at? I drove down Vine this morning but didn't spot anything different.

It's just a small sign in the window.  If you are at Vine and 13th, it's directly south of the building on the corner.  If you stand in front of Joseph Williams home and look across the street, it's just left of the building on the corner, and just right of the mosque (or whatever that is).

its been in that window as long as I can remember. 

I really thought that it was in the corner building that they're currently renovating.  Then it disappeared for a while...now it reappeared in the storefront next to it.

 

I could be wrong though.

Fourteenth and Vine hits the market

 

http://www.building-cincinnati.com/2009/01/fourteenth-and-vine-hits-market.html

great news!

Great that they hit the market, but lets be honest...even the OTR/downtown market is succumbing to the economy.  While I would assume sales are more likely in these areas, sales on a whole have to be really depressed.

Projects to watch in '09

 

 

Critical projects are moving forward in Over-the-Rhine. Despite the recession, Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. (3CDC) says its financing and plans are secure. Not so certain: How the economic downturn will affect the sale of new condos and the fate of businesses in new storefronts.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090123/BIZ01/301250002

Park plans meet skepticism

By Lisa Bernard-Kuhn • [email protected] • January 23, 2009

 

OVER-THE-RHINE - Michael Black says he can rent a room for $75 a week at a place on West 12th Street.

 

But this isn't one of those weeks.

 

"This is my first week back on the street," says Black, 50, enjoying the day with friends in Washington Park on Race Street.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090123/BIZ01/901250304/1055/NEWS