Couple Questions:

 

1. Approximately how many buildings and properties sit vacant in ORT?

2. How much surface level parking is there in OTR (acres or sq. feet)?

 

 

1. Approximately how many buildings and properties sit vacant in ORT?

2. How much surface level parking is there in OTR (acres or sq. feet)?

 

Before I throw anything out, let me ask a question.  Are you trying to draw a correlation between number of units that could go into OTR to surface space needed for parking?  The reason I ask is that you will come to a false conclusion unless you take into account garage spaces both contained in buildings and ancillary garages like the one that will be going up on Vine.

1. Approximately how many buildings and properties sit vacant in ORT?

2. How much surface level parking is there in OTR (acres or sq. feet)?

 

Before I throw anything out, let me ask a question. Are you trying to draw a correlation between number of units that could go into OTR to surface space needed for parking? The reason I ask is that you will come to a false conclusion unless you take into account garage spaces both contained in buildings and ancillary garages like the one that will be going up on Vine.

 

I would assume that the question is to determine redevelopment potential; e.g. if we rehabed all the vacant buildings and used surface lots for a higher and better use, what would be the number of units

thomasbw has it.... I'm writing a paper for an econ class and want to look at the redev. potential of just the vacant/abandoned properties.

The streetcar feasibility study has the info for downtown and otr, but i don't know if it breaks them out individually

 

http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/pages/-17762-/

Yeah... I've read through the study like 6 times looking for that information... unfortunately, the Steetcar study gives dollar amounts for the redev potential cause by the streetcar. I'm just interested in the hard number of units/properties.

The city was supposed to track the number of residential units in the neighborhood, to determine compliance with the OTR Comprehensive plan.  Unfortunately, the disbanding of the planning department in 2001 put the kibosh on that. 

 

Currently, there is an project spearheaded by the Over-the-Rhine Foundation and OTR Comprehensive Housing to collect, track, and publish a database with this information, along with additional details such as rental rates, type and amount of housing subsidies, amount of commercial space, historic style, and condition of building.  A collection instrument was developed in conjunction with UC, to be able to be used by volunteers.  Currently, a portion of the data base is being built with data collected by 3CDC (south of Liberty, west of Main) and Findlay Market (north of Liberty, west of Vine), though the information is a couple of years old.  Other development focused non-profits such as the OTR Chamber, Brewery District CURC, Central Vine St Business Association, and Merchants on Main are involved as well, along with the city.

 

I think the first draft of database should be usable by the end of summer, and the intent is for it to be publicly accessible like CAGIS.

 

I think I have the numbers for Findlay, but I have to find them.

I found the following numbers. Are they accurate?

 

In the OTR and downtown areas along the proposed [streetcar] loop, there are over 97 acres of land that is vacant or used for parking that could yield over 3,700 in new residential units. In additional, there is the potential for over 1,500 new residential units in already existing vacant buildings.

I think I have the numbers for Findlay, but I have to find them.

I believe Dan McDonald pulled together all of that info for Findlay.  I will see him tonight and will try and remember to ask if he has it.

I listened to Explore Cincinnati's podcast yesterday from May 27th. Jake Meclenbourg (sorry about the spelling) was saying that there is a $15k mortgage that essentailly never needs to be repaid. Is that something that is offered by 3CDC or is that a gov. program that goes along with the $8K tax refund?

This blog post may help out:  http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/kbenfield/revitalizing_overtherhine_part.html

Thanks!

there is a $15k mortgage that essentailly never needs to be repaid.

That was a program for a couple of units in Centenial and 10K for a unit in Bremen.  The money would have to be repaid if when the unit sold there was a profit.  If not, then no.  That is how I understand it.

 

Is that something that is offered by 3CDC or is that a gov. program

Private grant money.  Once again, that is how I understand it.  Additional grants are available for units in City Home.

Was down in OTR today and noticed a 'Leased' sign hanging in the window of the retail space across the street from Lavo.  When can we expect an announcement Michael? 

good question....its some burger place....not really sure on the actual name

I don't know if that lease has been signed completely or not or if there is an LOI on the space.  I will see what I can get from Kathleen.

good question....its some burger place....not really sure on the actual name

 

I wouldn't be so sure of that.  From what I have heard, it's not really a burger place at all. 

 

I don't know if that lease has been signed completely or not or if there is an LOI on the space.  I will see what I can get from Kathleen.

 

OK thanks.  The sign says 'Leased' so I figured that meant it was a done deal.  It seems to have went up within the past few days. 

I wouldn't be so sure of that.  From what I have heard, it's not really a burger place at all. 

 

 

really gonna be disappointed if its not...

I wouldn't be so sure of that.  From what I have heard, it's not really a burger place at all. 

 

 

really gonna be disappointed if its not...

 

Ha.  Why?  So it has to be a burger place or you're not going to support it?  Or is there another reason you'd be disappointed?

I will still support whatever goes there, no doubt.  I just want a place that is a little more casual that I can afford on a more regular basis.  I'd like somewhere a la rock bottom - but not a chain and with good food....where I can watch games and hang out.

I wish there was a second Zip's location :) But yeah, I echo the comment above. I like Lavomatic and all, and some of the more upscale dining establishments in downtown, but there are times when I crave a juicy hamburger or some American fare from places that don't close down at 5 PM.

I will still support whatever goes there, no doubt. I just want a place that is a little more casual that I can afford on a more regular basis. I'd like somewhere a la rock bottom - but not a chain and with good food....where I can watch games and hang out.

 

Like, as a great example, the old Barrel House brew pub on 12th street.  Good music and good bar food, great beer, and you can pick up a growler for tomorrow night.

I wish there was a second Zip's location :) But yeah, I echo the comment above. I like Lavomatic and all, and some of the more upscale dining establishments in downtown, but there are times when I crave a juicy hamburger or some American fare from places that don't close down at 5 PM.

 

There is a second Zip's location its just not called Zip's.  The Main St. Cafe in Newtown is owned by the same people, and serves the exact same burgers and chili. 

I wish there was a second Zip's location :) But yeah, I echo the comment above. I like Lavomatic and all, and some of the more upscale dining establishments in downtown, but there are times when I crave a juicy hamburger or some American fare from places that don't close down at 5 PM.

 

You can go to Lavomatic and get their Lavo Burger.  Its always on the menu and its not too expensive.  But unfortunately, you wrote it off as an upscale only establishment.  You continue to dissapoint on this forum Sherman. 

It is more upscale than most locations, as I have already posted and indicated. Their "Lavo Burger" is $10 and while tasty, I wasn't filled and I could get more food for my money at another location (e.g. Zip's, Fatburger). Their "Chicken Breast" was also well cooked and nicely displayed, but it was actually far less food than I had imagined, especially for $19 (what I had with you guys that evening). Their "Mac and Cheese" is one of my favorites, but I've rarely gotten that since it's $7 for a pretty small portion.

 

It's good to hang out there once in a while for me, and dine on some food while socializing, but it's not a neighborhood joint that I'd go to often. It's out of my price range, and I suspect that there are a large number of people that'd also like to see other restaurants and eateries compliment the neighborhood that serve a wide variety of food -- not just Lavomatic or other similar dining establishments. Every neighborhood district has variety, whether that is Hyde Park, Mt. Washington and even Covington and Newport, and with prices that fall on all ends of the spectrum.

 

There is nothing wrong with Lavomatic, but it's always great to have a variety of options and price points that people can afford or budget. There are some days when a $5 burger and fries will just do (Five Guys Burger and Fries... mmmmmm!) or something with a little more pizazz or decorum.

 

Edit: Here is Lavomatic at Urbanspoon. Interesting reviews at the least. I contribute and use Urbanspoon quite a lot, and consider it to be a great resource for dining options for any city.

You can go to Lavomatic and get their Lavo Burger.

Or grilled cheese.

 

The sign says 'Leased' so I figured that meant it was a done deal.

A sign is a sign, but a lease is a lease.  Still trying to get clarification.

I wish there was a second Zip's location :) But yeah, I echo the comment above. I like Lavomatic and all, and some of the more upscale dining establishments in downtown, but there are times when I crave a juicy hamburger or some American fare from places that don't close down at 5 PM.

Try some of the following places.  American cuisine, all open past 5pm (most well past 5pm) and all within a short walk from your building.

 

• Courtyard Cafe - 1211 Main Street (11:30 a.m.-10 p.m. Monday-Wednesday; 11:30 a.m.-midnight Thursday-Friday, 5 p.m.-midnight Saturday)
  
• Sully's Saloon - 700 Race Street (Sunday through Saturday 11am - 2:30am)
  
• BlackFinn Restaurant & Saloon - 19 E. 7th Street (11am-2:30am  7 days a week)
  
• Cadillac Ranch Bar & Grill - 38 Fountain Square Plaza (11 a.m.-2 a.m. daily. Kitchen closes at 9:30 p.m.)
  
• Arnold's Bar & Grill - 210 E. 8th Street (Monday, Tuesday & Wednesday 3-10, Thursday & Friday 3-11, Saturday 5-11)
  
• Rock Bottom Brewery - 10 Fountain Square Plaza (Sun-Thur: 11am-10pm, Fri & Sat:  11am-midnight)

 

Those should get you started in terms of American cuisine.  Some are more expensive than others, but they are all pretty reasonable and in an average dinner price range.  If you're looking for something other than American cuisine then there are a host of other options all open past 5pm.

^ Living on 7th, I can tell you for a fact that Sully's and Blackfinn do not have their kitchen open all day on Sundays. In fact, last Sunday we tried the 5 closest places we could think of for a sandwich, Diner on Elm, Izzy's, Cafe Martin, Blackfinn, and Sully's and none had their kitchen open at 2:30pm.

Courtyard Cafe's hours arent consistent.  They just shut down some time because nobody goes there.

 

Sully is horrendous.  It's like eating off the floor at my college frat house - complete with the stale beer smell.  Same with Blackfinn.

 

Cadillac is far overpriced.

 

Rock Bottom is disgusting and their service is by far the worst downtown (IMO).

 

Arnolds is cool, the food is ok.

 

Overall, i'm pretty negative on all of the places you listed.

The point is that there are plenty of places open up past 5pm.  Whether you like them or not is a subjective analysis.

The point is that there are plenty of places open up past 5pm.  Whether you like them or not is a subjective analysis.

Just Crepes on Court.  Open till 8 I believe.

Yeah, Just Crepes is open until 8, and has now hours on Saturday (Sunday too?). I've been to all of the locations you listed Randy, but I'm not sold on many because they are either over-hyped and have poor food quality, or are over-priced for the portions you get (in my opinion). And some, like Sully's, have inconsistent kitchen hours. I've been in Sully's mid-day on a Saturday and the kitchen would be closed because of a lack of traffic (sadly). Courtyard really does shut down -- as in, you walk in and no one would be there to help you at all. The kitchen would be vacant yet the front door would be unlocked.

 

I was talking to a neighbor who just moved into my old unit at the Emery today. He's new to downtown but has the same complaint, that there is not enough dining options available without having to go to Uptown or elsewhere. He appreciates the diversity of local establishments, but many do not have hours that are suitable for those after rush. Even most of the chains, such as Subway, Penn Station, Arby's, Chic-Fil-A, close by 6:30 or 7, some even earlier than that. I was trying to find a place in DT on Monday around 7 PM, and had to settle on Skyline by QCS because it was the only cheap and quick option available.

 

A few fast-food/quick service restaurants would be nice after rush, even if it is to 9 PM.

Good evening or morning - depending on what side of the day you're on. 

 

As for the Duveneck space.. hang tight.  The tenant, I imagine, will want to make this news splash. 

 

Yes, to feed your curiosity somewhat - this place intends to 'feed the collective bellies' long after 5pm.  And from the musings around this board - I think many will be thrilled.

That's good to hear and thanks for the heads-up. I've longed for a place similar to Melt in Northside for its fare and something reasonable in price like Zip's, so my finger's are crossed that it's something of a mix :)

^ Living on 7th, I can tell you for a fact that Sully's and Blackfinn do not have their kitchen open all day on Sundays. In fact, last Sunday we tried the 5 closest places we could think of for a sandwich, Diner on Elm, Izzy's, Cafe Martin, Blackfinn, and Sully's and none had their kitchen open at 2:30pm.

 

We've noticed the same thing, especially with Cafe Martin.  It can be hard to get something to eat around 3 PM on a Sunday.  We've also had several experiences when we walked into a restaurant only to find that their kitchen is closed until 5. 

 

I see where Sherman is coming from with Lavomatic.  It does seem more upscale than your average neighborhood restaurant.  I also would like to see a new place open that is very casual, casual enough that I don't feel stupid wearing a t-shirt and shorts.

One thing is for sure, if this place opening in Duveneck can be

 

a) somewhat casual

b) have good service and above average food

c) be reasonably priced

d) have expanded hours

 

They are looking at a huge hit.  There is a massive void in downtown for a place like this.  If you can honestly look at the places Rando listed above and see yourself sitting around on a Sunday evening saying "_____ (sullys, rock bottom)sounds good" then I think you're in the minority.

 

I just want a place that I can grab a beer and some casual food and watch a basketball game if I want to.  Hopefully this place does that.

Once again, whether you like those places or not is irrelevant.  The statement was made that there were no American cuisine options open downtown past 5pm.  That is false.

 

I certainly agree that a local, more casual feeling place in OTR is needed.  I would assume that as the neighborhood continues to repopulate that you'll see places like Courtyard Cafe establish more standard hours.

Basically y'all want Kaldi's circa the riots.

a) somewhat casual

b) have good service and above average food

c) be reasonably priced

d) have expanded hours

 

My boss used to say that business is a triangle of good, fast and cheap. You can only hit two at a time.

 

 

im not saying fast or cheap...just more casual and more moderate

The demographics aren't there yet. I think what you are seeing in OTR is the emergence of a restaurant industry, like lichen growing on a rock on a new volcanic island. If you planted a tree there, it would die a spectacular death. These places that have intermittent schedules are pushing and testing the market.

I think you are all talking about a place like we used to have on Race called Mullanes.  Stay tuned, they may be re-opening...

The demographics aren't there yet. I think what you are seeing in OTR is the emergence of a restaurant industry, like lichen growing on a rock on a new volcanic island. If you planted a tree there, it would die a spectacular death. These places that have intermittent schedules are pushing and testing the market.

 

Well, most (if not all) of the locations listed were in downtown. A lot of restaurants depend on the lunch and early dinner crowd, and you'll find that as you wander north from Fountain Square, the hours for many of these venues decline. For instance, the Skyline Chili near QCS is open until 8 PM and is open on Saturday and Sunday, but the location closer to Vine and OTR is open basically until 5 PM Monday through Friday.

Skyline at 7th & Vine (2 blocks south of the one you referenced) is open later and on weekends if my memory serves me right.  The Skyline by QCS serves alcohol, so it's no wonder why they're open later.

Skyline at 7th & Vine (2 blocks south of the one you referenced) is open later and on weekends if my memory serves me right. The Skyline by QCS serves alcohol, so it's no wonder why they're open later.

 

The 7th and Vine location is only open until 4 PM on Saturdays and usually closed on Sundays.  The only time I have seen them open on Sunday is during a Bengals home game. 

 

It is sad that you can't eat Cincinnati style chili in downtown on a Sunday or for dinner on a Saturday night.

^They were opened around 6pm the other day when I walked past, but then again I've had issues with them and their hours before.  They keep all their suburban locations open until about 1 or 2am.

I thought that Skyline was franchised, so I'm not sure if there is an overarching 'they'.

there is a $15k mortgage that essentailly never needs to be repaid.

That was a program for a couple of units in Centenial and 10K for a unit in Bremen.  The money would have to be repaid if when the unit sold there was a profit.  If not, then no.  That is how I understand it.

 

Is that something that is offered by 3CDC or is that a gov. program

Private grant money.  Once again, that is how I understand it.  Additional grants are available for units in City Home.

 

That is mostly correct;  the idea is a "soft second" mortgage that only needs to be repaid if we (the owners of the Bremen unit) decide to sell before 5 years of occupancy and turn a profit on the sale--after 5 years the second mortgage is completely forgiven. That being said I probably wouldn't sell if I was offered double what I paid, we like our place and the neighborhood that much.  But the special mortgage was definitely what attracted us to the unit in the first place and it fit our grad student budget perfectly.  If there's money to do this again for future units in the GQ I absolutely encourage it because it's a great idea.

 

One thing is for sure, if this place opening in Duveneck can be

 

a) somewhat casual

b) have good service and above average food

c) be reasonably priced

d) have expanded hours

 

They are looking at a huge hit. There is a massive void in downtown for a place like this. If you can honestly look at the places Rando listed above and see yourself sitting around on a Sunday evening saying "_____ (sullys, rock bottom)sounds good" then I think you're in the minority.

 

I just want a place that I can grab a beer and some casual food and watch a basketball game if I want to. Hopefully this place does that.

 

This fits with what I'm looking for too.  Basically a Grammer's open every day with an expanded bar food type menu and a good selection of beers on tap.  If it creates the right kind of atmosphere (not too sports bar, not too stuffy) it could pull in both the casual passerby and theatre/symphony crowd simultaneously.

If the Gateway Quarter is ever to really take off, then 3CDC needs to follow through with their plans to RENOVATE WASHINGTON PARK. A healthy and safe urban park in that setting is just what the doctor ordered. It is sooo underutilized, its pathetic. Why are they dragging their heels with this  project? its been several years now....

^They are not dragging their feet.  They are in final design phase.  Then comes construction drawings, then bidding and scheduling the work to fit with Music Hall schedule etc.  Construction of the garage may start this fall/winter.  I think their budget is in the 30 million dollar range.

 

Also, I wouldn't say it is really underused.  I have done head counts there, and it almost always has around 100 people in and around it.