That condemned warehouse at 42 W McMicken near the top of race that was/is that "Tinderbox" venue changed ownership last week. Anyone know whats going on there? That building to me seems like an interesting opportunity at the tip top of OTR.

My friend was the "owner" and founder of Tinderbox. It was shut down due to the fact that that building is condemned. The roof is partially collapsed and the entire structure is unsound with the exception of the front portion housing the apartment unit.

 

I talked to a couple who were looking into buying the property and were willing to put about a million into it but that's honestly nowhere near enough. I haven't heard anything about that since however.

 

The building is good looking but honestly is probably a goner. It's in absolutely horrific shape. It would need to be entirely rebuilt structurally which is hardly worth it since the majority of the building isn't of any particular interest. Losing the streetfront, however, would be a shame.

 

Tinderbox is in the process of being moved to a new location that can legally house people. The founder, Stuart Wilson, is a really interesting guy with some great ideas about what he wants Tinderbox to do. I should ask him for an update. He was looking at a warehouse in South Fairmont last time I talked to him.

My friend was the "owner" and founder of Tinderbox. It was shut down due to the fact that that building is condemned. The roof is partially collapsed and the entire structure is unsound with the exception of the front portion housing the apartment unit.

 

I talked to a couple who were looking into buying the property and were willing to put about a million into it but that's honestly nowhere near enough. I haven't heard anything about that since however.

 

The building is good looking but honestly is probably a goner. It's in absolutely horrific shape. It would need to be entirely rebuilt structurally which is hardly worth it since the majority of the building isn't of any particular interest. Losing the streetfront, however, would be a shame.

 

Tinderbox is in the process of being moved to a new location that can legally house people. The founder, Stuart Wilson, is a really interesting guy with some great ideas about what he wants Tinderbox to do. I should ask him for an update. He was looking at a warehouse in South Fairmont last time I talked to him.

 

Thanks for the update. I agree, I would miss the streetfront.

 

I wonder if they could choose to not rebuild the entire structure. As in - demo the back half, then stabilize the front portion and build a new north exterior wall - effectively shortening the building and creating a courtyard in the back. I'd imagine a million bucks could do that. I've seen some warehouse conversion projects in other cities that have done that.

^That's certainly a possibility. I just looked it up and they are indeed the ones who purchased it. I'm super excited to see what they do. They had good ideas and weren't interested in tearing it down. Glad to see it'll be saved.

I wonder if the hooker barricades affected the property value much? On one hand, the barricades curbed prostitution on the street and probably gave it a cul-de-sac like aura. On the other hand, you need barricades to stop prostitution on the street. It sold for a decent price given the condition of the building.

As far as I'm aware, the value was almost entirely based on the apartment fronting the street with the entire rear, 16,000 square foot warehouse being worth essentially nothing.

 

They're well-off people who were looking for a longterm investment and weren't concerned with the current state of the street but rather what it'll likely become over the years.

CincyShirts.com is opening a storefront at 1435 Main near Melindy Street.

Smitty's moved out of their store at 15th and Vine this weekend. They're setting up shop at Green and Vine. The owner of their former location is preparing the building for renovation into 13 condos.

 

Hueber Homes put up a fence around the vacant lot at 1527-1529 Republic and has begun digging for what appears to be a future foundation. Not sure what the plan is here but I have a feeling it's a single family home.

 

Fencing has gone up around the buildings at the Northwest corner of 15th and Pleasant. No demolition has happened yet however.

 

The owners of the plot just south of the new construction on Elm just south of 15th are beginning their search for an architect. Single family home as suspected.

 

The bar and yoga studio at 14th and Republic is coming along nicely.

 

Pontiac is also coming along. It appears there will be something in the basement since there is an open stair leading down there.

 

The two story addition to the garage on 14th by Urban Expansion is coming along. I'm really curious what their exterior treatment will be for the addition.

 

I'm not supposed to actually share this information but there's a very large, 20+ townhome project in the works up by Rothenberg.

 

3CDC's new headquarters is looking quite nice.

 

Taft's Ale House is in the process of receiving new windows. Exterior painting is almost complete as well and interior plaster work is ongoing.

 

The Mercer actually doesn't look bad now that it's fully put together. Each individual item is tacky but as a whole it actually works. I know that's not going to be a common opinion but I'm not as offended by it as I was when it was still a work in progress.

 

Homage looks really great. I love the all black storefront. There's something really nice about it.

 

Sidewalk reconstruction is set to begin soon on the northern half of the 1400 block of Race Street and turning the corners onto 15th.

 

The townhome at 1535 Republic has begun further interior demolition after initial exploratory demolition.

 

The townhomes at 1531-1533 Republic are under renovation.

 

Good news on the corner building at NW Intersection of Vine and 15th.  I wonder when 3CDC is going to secure finances for the SW Corner of buildings for their office project? 

 

http://www.3cdc.org/our-projects/current-projects/15th-vine/

 

Then the next step is the huge buildings on the SE corner and NE corner of Vine and 15th.  It seems those buildings can hold a ton of people and will be quite attractive being right next to Kroger.  I think once those corner buildings are done you will see 15th Street get all the way revamped.  I don't know how they will address parking in that area though, maybe a Mercer type garage behind the Kroger building with new construction townhomes fronting Walnut?  Will be interesting to see how it all comes together in the coming years.

Sweet Petit Desserts is opening a second Over-the-Rhine location on Tuesday. Owner Taren Kinebrew, who already operates a storefront at 1426 Race St., will open a location at 1407 Vine St.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/11/10/this-cincinnati-shop-is-opening-its-second-over.html

 

I find it hard to believe that Sweet Petit can support two store fronts in a one-block radius. But man... if they can pull that off, more power to them!

^^ lol Epic! I buying this for next summer!

 

I have a feeling this is just temporary and they'll fully move when their lease in Westfalen is up. Their current spot just doesn't get the foot traffic such a niche place would need to be successful. Vine makes so much more sense.

 

If I'm wrong then I'll be amazed. I live above Sweet Petit and never see them open or with customers.

Every time I walk by them when they are open - it's empty. Vine has much more foot traffic. I think they will do better there (for retail).

^^ lol Epic! I buying this for next summer!

 

 

My band started writing a surf song called "Surf Cincinnati" back when Surf Cincinnati was still open.  It was a decent song but not as good as:

 

Every time I walk by them when they are open - it's empty. Vine has much more foot traffic. I think they will do better there (for retail).

 

The story mentioned they will continue to do all the cooking out of the Race St location. I wonder if the Vine St location is large enough to hold their kitchen and store front.

^^ lol Epic! I buying this for next summer!

 

 

My band started writing a surf song called "Surf Cincinnati" back when Surf Cincinnati was still open.  It was a decent song but not as good as:

 

 

Is it bad I want to start a petition to make that the official anthem for the West Side?  (This coming form a West Sider)

I just want to see these guys perform that at a Bengals halftime.  It's kind of amazing that the song has remained "underground" for all these years, that video is at least five years old now. 

Here’s the latest apartment project underway in OTR

Nov 17, 2014, 7:19am EST

Staff Cincinnati Business Courier

 

There will be 14 more apartments and two new commercial spaces in Over-the-Rhine by next summer, Soapbox Cincinnati reports.

 

Urban Sites recently began redeveloping two buildings across from the Emery Theater at 1123 and 1125 Walnut St.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/morning_call/2014/11/here-s-the-latest-apartment-project-underway-in.html

The building at the northeast corner of Walnut and 14th as well as the duplex to the east have recently been painted. I've noted repair work to the roof in the past. It looks like they are doing more than just stabilizing the building as I previously believed.

 

Both are owned by WDC LLC which I believe is owned by the Wade family.

 

EDIT: They filed a permit for: "RENOVATION OF A VACANT APARTMENT BUILDING INTO NEW DWELLING UNITS AND RETAIL SPACE/ HVAC"

 

The permit has not been approved yet. Larry Harris has requested more information, it seems.

Some more information on the new bar across from Salazar:

 

 

4EG adding another bar in Over-the-Rhine

 

"Low Spark will be a roughly 1,000-square-foot bar located across the street from Salazar. Deck said the feel of the bar will be similar to Lackman, which is located two blocks away at West 13th and Vine streets."

 

 

...14th Street is really taking off!

I'm loving the developments happening on the numbered streets. It's really starting to help tie together the disconnect between the north-south corridors, a problem my thesis dealt with.

 

14th has a really nice scale to it. Dead-ending into Vine on one side and the park a couple blocks away in conjunction with its narrow width makes for a really pedestrian-scaled streetscape. It's only going to improve when this bar, the yoga studio, and Picnic and Pantry all open up.

 

I recently got a tour of the Film Center building which UrbanSites will turn into either office space or condos. Check out the full gallery on UrbanCincy.

Proposed $40m development at corner of Walnut and Liberty: http://www.wcpo.com/money/local-business-news/grammers-restaurant-would-be-partially-demolished-in-40-million-project

 

Wade is planning eight large apartments and 40,000 square feet of office and commercial space on a 2.2 acre site in the 1400 block of Walnut Street. He hopes to break ground next summer and be ready for occupancy by 2017. The developments wold be called Grammer's Place and Melindy Flats. Portions of the Grammer's facade and all of its bar would be preserved, but the remainder of the restaurant complex would be razed to make way for a 157-car parking garage that would support the surrounding development.

 

Grammer's is "a bastion of German heritage" that once played host to city politicians, Over-the-Rhine business leaders and Hollywood celebrities, including Elizabeth Taylor, Roderick Crawford, Roy Rogers and Dale Evans, said Jim Tarbell, a former city councilman who owned Grammer's between 1984 and 2007.

 

Wade bought Grammer's from Tarbell and closed it after an armed robbery at the restaurant in 2011. He's been acquiring properties near the intersection of Walnut and East Liberty Street since 2007. He sees the redevelopment of the site as a key step in the formation of a 61-unit community of two- and three-bedroom apartments that eventually will include secure parking, interior gardens and a rooftop pool on a future phase apartment building west of Walnut.

 

After WCPO described Wade's plans for the block, Tarbell said he would be inclined to "go to bat big time" for the selective demolition because the scope of Wade's development is worth pursuing.

 

"The most important things are being preserved and are given huge new life," Tarbell said. "The legacy of Grammer's physically is being preserved and extended. The rest of it depends on how they handle it in terms of the history, all the stories and so forth. We'll see how that plays out."

 

Wade aims to honor Grammer's history by incorporating windows, woodworking and relics from the German restaurant throughout the development. And he claims "not a tile" of the former bar will be disturbed.

 

"We're going to incorporate the Grammer's bar into the commercial development," Wade said. "What that turns out to be, whether it's a bar, a coffee shop, an entry, I don't know. But it will be part of the commercial development."

 

How is it that Wade can incorporate facades into his developments but 3CDC cannot? I know these are renderings that were drawn, not created on a computer, so some liberties may have been taken in the sketches - but this looks to be a fairly large development. But "8 large apartments?" I don't see that.

Wow. This is a big project. And with the info they have given so far, it seems like a great addition to the neighborhood. They're going to save the historic part of Grammer's and preserve the facades of the existing buildings along Walnut. They have already started fixing up the buildings near the corner of 14th & Walnut.

Aerial of the site today

But "8 large apartments?" I don't see that.

 

Maybe a typo? This is a huge building. Or at least appears to be huge. 8 units would be such a tiny amount for such a huge building. Unless there are other uses taking up a considerable amount of space.

Another U-Square. 

But "8 large apartments?" I don't see that.

 

Maybe a typo? This is a huge building. Or at least appears to be huge. 8 units would be such a tiny amount for such a huge building. Unless there are other uses taking up a considerable amount of space.

Should probably say 8 large apartment buildings. Later on it says 61-unit complex.

The article also mentioned a future phase on the west side of Walnut:

He sees the redevelopment of the site as a key step in the formation of a 61-unit community of two- and three-bedroom apartments that eventually will include secure parking, interior gardens and a rooftop pool on a future phase apartment building west of Walnut.

 

WDC LLC owns a ton of properties throughout OTR, including a dozen or so on Walnut. I assume the future phase would take place on the two giant vacant parcels at 1411 and 1415 Walnut.

 

Another U-Square. 

 

Record-setting pessimism!

 

Based on the fact that it's a historic district I'm going to go out on a limb and say the materials will be quite a bit better than U Square's.

So far this project is a step up from the CR Architects amalgamation that is the U Square @ the Banks Gantry Flats (That is U Square, Current @ the Banks, the Gantry, and DeSales Flats).

How is it that Wade can incorporate facades into his developments but 3CDC cannot? I know these are renderings that were drawn, not created on a computer, so some liberties may have been taken in the sketches - but this looks to be a fairly large development. But "8 large apartments?" I don't see that.

 

3CDC was attempting to do this with a block long project at 15th and Race. Also at 15th and Vine. Baby steps...

Maybe Grammer's will become a Johnny Rocket's.  Or a Waffle House. 

WaHoTR

I can only see the preview picture but you guys are SLIGHTLY right:

 

(its a STEP above U Square at the Gantry flats) - because the article is WCPO I can't see the pic other than on an FB preview.

 

 

This would be a huge addition to this area.  I know that Urban Sites is doing a lot of work on Walnut and also on East 15th Street.  It looks like it will take awhile before it is all occupied but will be a welcome addition and keep the momentum going.  There are a lot of sketchy areas in between Vine and Main Street and this helps to tie it in together even more.

or work towards improving the already improving music scene down there.

 

The Woodward Theater is going to open in October. Same owners as MOTR. So far they have We Were Promised Jetpacks confirmed for October, and San Fermin playing in November. Their site is not active yet, so I don't know if others are playing. The music scene is going to get a lot better in Cincinnati once the Woodward is open.

 

A few photos from the "Pints for Paint" event at Woodward Theater:

 

 

 

They have already hosted a handful of concerts there.

 

The scale of this thing is all off.  I trust the materials will be better but the way the Grammer's facades are dwarfed by the new building behind it almost makes me nauseous.  That "Rookwood Wall" is a ridiculous gimmick too. 

 

Count me in the "not a fan" category.

Re: the Grammer's plan: I'm gonna go ahead and say I'm not a fan in general of plans for new construction that would completely envelop or consume old buildings in OTR.  I'd rather see each building come back on its own (or in a group like Westfalen.)  I'd also like to see new construction to fill in every surface parking lot in the neighborhood. Small additions to structures to make this work would be OK too.  Basically I think they got the neighborhood right the first time around.

 

I understand the appeal to the builder of a super block like this though- economies of scale, especially for including things like elevators and parking garages. But I don't think I would like for it to become the preferred style of development.

 

On the other hand, I also really really want the pace of redevelopment to greatly accelerate.

Yea this plan looks pretty sweet. I like incorporating the old facades.

I disagree with the idea that the scale is too big. Liberty isn't what it first was. It's super wide, and as such needs much larger buildings lining it in order to help undo the openness which its expansion created.

 

It's not 1860. We shouldn't pretend it is. We shouldn't think building like it's 1860 makes sense. This is a perfect example of romanticizing idea of what OTR is and what it actually is. It's 40% of a historic neighborhood and 60% open, ugly, underdeveloped space or vacant. There's no actual reason we should think that 60% should look like it did before it was torn down. Aiming for such will result in a really awful neighborhood filled with ugly row buildings that look like that crap that was just built on the 1400 block of Elm Street or the things built on Republic Street a few years back. Europe should tell us that the best way to celebrate the old is to compliment it with the new, not try to mimic the old and fail at doing so, insulting the old in the process.

 

The way we function as a society isn't the same as when OTR was first developed. Therefore we should update the way we use space accordingly.

^ Agreed, OTR has a handful of quite large buildings already that fit just fine (Emory Theater, Hamilton County Job & Family Services, old Woodward High School, the new SCPA [kind of], YMCA, Hudepohl, and of course Music Hall).  These new buildings that try to look like a bunch of row houses not only don't convince, but they've been done so many times it's a cliché all its own.  I'd still prefer to see more granular development on a small scale, but today's reality isn't very conducive to that.  I applaud the city for relaxing parking minimums and embracing mixed-use zoning, but there's still quite onerous building codes, energy efficiency standards, fire protection regulations, and even the historic district reviews which are all important, but they do disadvantage the smaller developers.  The financing/lending world also hasn't caught up with the times either, and they want comps within a block, parking parking and more parking, and no risk whatsoever.  Again, that disadvantages the small players. 

 

So the choice does somewhat boil down to either big developments or nothing.  I know it's not that simple, and there are some small players out there doing good work, but there's not enough to satisfy demand really.  So what would really help is to have these architects and developers build something that just is what it is, rather than pretending to be something else.  That doesn't mean it's anti-urban or out of character; how it meets the ground and sidewalk and the materials and fenestration are all still very important.  Not only are there plenty of examples of buildings that work in OTR that I mentioned before, but also several blocks south into downtown.  That's where the inspiration should be coming from for these larger projects, because that's how neighborhoods like this evolved in the first place.  Remember that downtown of the latter half of the 19th century had buildings much like OTR does today, but it kept growing. 

 

The one fly in the ointment here is how to handle the existing buildings without turning them into cartoons or shadows of their former selves.  That's not an easy proposition, and it's one the preservation community has yet to find a really good solution for. 

You said it quite well. We have moments of inspiration for large-scale buildings in OTR and nearby in Downtown, we should be using those as a starting point if we want to be contextual (which I think we all agree is important in an urban setting). This development might end up looking fine, but it's falling into the "row building on a large scale" trap that the historic board has basically set up to happen every time something large-scale comes into the picture.

 

Edit: So it's more clear, contextual doesn't mean style. It means massing, scale, graining, usage, etc.

I disagree with the idea that the scale is too big. Liberty isn't what it first was. It's super wide, and as such needs much larger buildings lining it in order to help undo the openness which its expansion created.

 

It's not 1860. We shouldn't pretend it is. We shouldn't think building like it's 1860 makes sense. This is a perfect example of romanticizing idea of what OTR is and what it actually is. It's 40% of a historic neighborhood and 60% open, ugly, underdeveloped space or vacant. There's no actual reason we should think that 60% should look like it did before it was torn down. Aiming for such will result in a really awful neighborhood filled with ugly row buildings that look like that crap that was just built on the 1400 block of Elm Street or the things built on Republic Street a few years back. Europe should tell us that the best way to celebrate the old is to compliment it with the new, not try to mimic the old and fail at doing so, insulting the old in the process.

 

The way we function as a society isn't the same as when OTR was first developed. Therefore we should update the way we use space accordingly.

 

Don't forget that Liberty is supposed to have a road diet.

Road diet just means less driving lanes, not a reduction in width. It'll be more pleasant for sure, but it'll still be a massive ROW that needs to be dealt with accordingly.

 

The wider the street the larger the buildings need to be to create the sense of enclosure that makes people comfortable enough to want to, say, occupy cafe seating on the sidewalk. Other ways this can be achieved or enhanced is with street trees which also help reduce the perceptional width of a major ROW.

I disagree with the idea that the scale is too big. Liberty isn't what it first was. It's super wide, and as such needs much larger buildings lining it in order to help undo the openness which its expansion created.

 

It's not 1860. We shouldn't pretend it is. We shouldn't think building like it's 1860 makes sense. This is a perfect example of romanticizing idea of what OTR is and what it actually is. It's 40% of a historic neighborhood and 60% open, ugly, underdeveloped space or vacant. There's no actual reason we should think that 60% should look like it did before it was torn down. Aiming for such will result in a really awful neighborhood filled with ugly row buildings that look like that crap that was just built on the 1400 block of Elm Street or the things built on Republic Street a few years back. Europe should tell us that the best way to celebrate the old is to compliment it with the new, not try to mimic the old and fail at doing so, insulting the old in the process.

 

The way we function as a society isn't the same as when OTR was first developed. Therefore we should update the way we use space accordingly.

 

Don't forget that Liberty is supposed to have a road diet.

 

I've heard the road diet project is on hold.

I disagree with the idea that the scale is too big. Liberty isn't what it first was. It's super wide, and as such needs much larger buildings lining it in order to help undo the openness which its expansion created.

 

It's not 1860. We shouldn't pretend it is. We shouldn't think building like it's 1860 makes sense. This is a perfect example of romanticizing idea of what OTR is and what it actually is. It's 40% of a historic neighborhood and 60% open, ugly, underdeveloped space or vacant. There's no actual reason we should think that 60% should look like it did before it was torn down. Aiming for such will result in a really awful neighborhood filled with ugly row buildings that look like that crap that was just built on the 1400 block of Elm Street or the things built on Republic Street a few years back. Europe should tell us that the best way to celebrate the old is to compliment it with the new, not try to mimic the old and fail at doing so, insulting the old in the process.

 

The way we function as a society isn't the same as when OTR was first developed. Therefore we should update the way we use space accordingly.

 

Don't forget that Liberty is supposed to have a road diet.

 

I've heard the road diet project is on hold.

 

Not surprised, its a good idea and the Mayor is (mostly) allergic to them.

 

Don't forget that Liberty is supposed to have a road diet.

 

There's almost no chance lanes on Liberty shrink.  Cranley is OBSESSED with making sure no projects reduce lanes ever ever ever.  I think the road diet will end up being large bumpouts and center medians.  There is almost no chance they remove a lane.

The perspective drawings are awkward, there are some scale and vanishing point issues causing that. I think showing the building from unrealistic angles isn't helping the case either. Until there's something more solid I'd put these drawings into the same category of those initial Banks renderings. Who knows what we'll actually end up with.

More info on the project(s): 

 

Rookwood Pottery owner plans $75 million development in Over-the-Rhine

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/11/26/rookwood-pottery-owner-plans-75-million.html?page=all