1405 Clay St will be redeveloped by Urban Sites into 4 one-story residential units and a 995 sqft commercial unit on the first floor. Urban Sites claims to have an LOI from an operator for the commercial space to put in a bar / pub concept.

 

http://city-egov.cincinnati-oh.gov/Webtop/ws/council/public/child/Blob/41383.pdf?rpp=-10&m=5&w=doc_no%3D%27201401480%27

There is this design in Washington, D.C. that has a "green" canopy and was built as part of a redevelopment project: https://goo.gl/maps/3FfMP

 

Another consideration towards a small size: tanker trucks that need to refill the storage tanks.

The check cashing place at Reading, Liberty and 471 would be a decent place to move the Shell to

 

Great point, I'd argue someone would do just as much business there, if not more, than the current location (if for nothing else, it has a less sketchy vibe).

I live a couple blocks from the Liberty gas station and will avoid it and have only gone when I really need gas and don't want to risk waiting until I'm elsewhere. It's just so crappy. Half the machines don't even work most of the time, their prices are always way higher than everyone else, and their setup looks like garbage and is insulting to literally everyone who lives in OTR, old or new residents.

I'm pretty sure the Liberty Shell is the only place I've bought gas in the last 5 years, except for one time in Loveland while visiting family.  Their prices are lower than the Shell, Marathon, and BP around UC's campus. I agree that it's crappy, but it's close.

 

The problem with moving the Shell is that it'd be a petroleum brownfield site and the cleanup costs would make it more expensive than any other vacant lots in OTR, of which there are quite a few. There are several other empty/underutilized plots on just Liberty that should be priorities, such as the cell phone store and the former Washington Park construction staging site.

The environmental requirements to build on a former gas station are HUGE.  It would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars just to prep the site for development.  I doubt it will be replaced, but it could be improved.  First, I would put a decent looking 3-4 foot high fence (that can't be sat upon) along Liberty at the property line. 

 

Also, things will change when 3CDC & Urban sites develop their properties on Moore St.

Let's keep discussions of the Shell Station in the Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: General Development and News (non-3CDC) thread.

 

Thanks

Also, things will change when 3CDC & Urban sites develop their properties on Moore St.

 

I may be wrong, but I don't believe 3CDC or Urban Sites own any property on Moore.

I may be wrong, but I don't believe 3CDC or Urban Sites own any property on Moore.

 

Urban Sites owns 1508 Moore St.

 

3CDC owns 1510 and 1512 Moore St.

 

Rhineland Redevelopment (Mike Morgan) owns 1612 and 1616 Moore St.

Oh I was thinking of the properties north of the Shell/Liberty, not the properties south of Liberty. I didn't even really realize that was still Moore Street. I never thought about what the name of the street was there, but it never really clicked for me because it is so cut off from the rest of Moore.

^I've always thought that the southern portion of Moore Street could be an interesting study into pedestrian only streets in OTR. From 15th to Liberty it could become a pedestrian way with townhomes off of it and street retail in new development built up to Liberty. Same for 15th from Vine to Republic. It functions great with the barriers so might as well make it permanent and put the street to use, even if it's just painting the surface like they do in NYC.

Maybe they can put a 3-story building in front of the Liberty gas station?

 

^ That's an improvement I guess, but it's still a lousy building since it's completely blank at the street corner itself.  If they want to keep the typical gas station layout then simply doing a better design of the canopy would help a lot (though I admit being on Liberty the scale of a single-story building isn't quite right). 

 

Covington:

http://goo.gl/maps/3PdNr

 

Savannah:

 

 

^I was literally thinking of that exact gas station in Savannah. I always loved passing by that when I lived down there. It was scaled correctly, nicely detailed, had street presence, and was still fully functional without sacrificing much in terms of urbanity.

 

The existing Shell just has so much pavement for very few pumps and a tiny building that is mostly served by people walking up and not parking. Even as a gas station it does an awful job of utilizing its site to the fullest.

Taft's Ale House is really coming along (finally). 3CDC's latest photo update here:

 

It's looking really good from outside. They've been leaving lights on at night and seeing inside really livens up that corner. The plaster work looks pretty impressive as does the tiling. I can't wait to get inside and check it out in person.

Lechay's is just about open.  The place looks surprisingly small.  It looks like it's just the ground-floor space. 

It is. The other three floors are office. There are also a handful of other ground-floor spaces occupied by other businesses.

Now the Taft Ale House people just need to figure out something to do with the steeple to get rid of the feeling that something is missing. How about a big statue of Taft raising a mug/stein to the Queen of the West? Maybe he could be riding a flying pig.

It's funny that I can't remember but I think the steeple was already gone before the 2008 wind storm.  I remember when the corner store was in the basement in the late 90s but for whatever reason I can't remember what the steeple looked like, if it had one then. 

 

It is. The other three floors are office. There are also a handful of other ground-floor spaces occupied by other businesses.

 

I assumed because the building is so large that they were going to have an upstairs space.  Does it even have a back room or anything other than what you can see from the street?

 

 

That I'm not sure about. I just know that there are multiple retail spaces on the first floor of the building. It's kind of hard to tell though what is what. Though I saw they removed all the window coverings so I might have to go by and take a closer look.

 

If you use Google Streetview you can go back in time to the 2007 images and you can kind of get a look at the steeple. It looks like it was pretty badly damaged by something (and possible not all there at that time).

Does anyone know if there is a functional churchbell still in Taft's?  Would be cool if there was one that was rung every hour or so and for special events.

Does anyone know if there is a functional churchbell still in Taft's?  Would be cool if there was one that was rung every hour or so and for special events.

 

Speed dating?

Here are the latest apartment projects coming to Over-the-Rhine

Dec 18, 2014, 1:47pm EST

Tom Demeropolis Reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

Urban Sites will start work on two apartment projects in Over-the-Rhine, thanks to Ohio Historic Preservation Tax Credits awarded Thursday to the developments.

 

Over-the-Rhine-based Urban Sites will begin work as soon as possible on 1200 and 1208 Main St., transforming the two vacant buildings into 22 one-bedroom apartments and three street-level commercial spaces, and 1405 Clay St., which will have four apartments and one commercial space. Michael Chewning, chief operating officer and CFO of Urban Sites, said the Main Street project is a more than $3.2 million development, while the restoration of the Clay Street building is a nearly $1 million project.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/12/18/here-are-the-latest-apartment-projects-coming-to.html?page=all

Finally!

 

Does anyone know what is going on at the SE corner of Main and 13th?

 

I know it has to do with the Circle A Market that is moving because their old building is falling down in the back and the city shut them down.

 

I've heard it is simply going to be another convenience store. I've heard it is going to be some kind of ethnic African restaurant, I've heard it is going to be a little grocery store, and I've heard a mixture of those three things.

 

Does anyone actually know what is going in there or when they might open? I know they recently painted the exterior and rebuilt the storefront.

My friend is good friends with the guys who opened the Macaron Bar right nearby and said they were talking to them and the Park and Vine people and apparently it's going to be a bodega (convenient store plus prepared food) of some African variety and that they plan on opening relatively soon but that last part could be anyone's guess.

 

The storefront looks really nice. I'm really pleased with how that turned out.

We need some bodegas in Cincinnati.

 

Since I didn't grow up anywhere near bodegas, this is what I think of every time.

 

(a tiny bit NSFW)

 

I really love all the bodegas in NYC. Every time I'm there visiting friends the convenience factor of not only being able to grab quick, packaged goods but also quick easy meals is one of my favorite things. That alongside food stalls that are open at all hours that will gladly give me a delicious falafel at 5 am. Can we get some of those?

I've popped my head in when I've seen them working (at nights, on weekends) and there is a wall separating the space into two... so it could very well be everything you've heard!

Finally!

 

Does anyone know what is going on at the SE corner of Main and 13th?

 

I know it has to do with the Circle A Market that is moving because their old building is falling down in the back and the city shut them down.

 

I've heard it is simply going to be another convenience store. I've heard it is going to be some kind of ethnic African restaurant, I've heard it is going to be a little grocery store, and I've heard a mixture of those three things.

 

Does anyone actually know what is going in there or when they might open? I know they recently painted the exterior and rebuilt the storefront.

 

The owner of that building (New York Drycleaner building) was the tenant of 1304 Main and was the owner of the Circle A market (which was horrible). His name is Fahdy Isaac.  The City vacated 1304 Main (owned by Mr & Mrs. Adwani) due to structural issues and Fahdy threatened to reopen Circle A in the Dry cleaners building which he owns. But the drycleaners building wasn't up to code so he couldn't.  He spent a long time updating that building and completely rebuilt the storefront.  It turned out WAY better than I think anyone expected.  But in the end, it will come down to how well he manages his building/what tenant he brings in.  It's VERY attractive now for a simple store and would be nice to have something that contributes to the neighborhood and not just a single serve alcohol carryout.

 

Mr & Mrs. Adwani were going through a divorce while the City was going after 1304 Main street for its building code violations.  She ended up with the building, and recently sold it to Fahdy Isaac for $110,000 in April of this year. He hasn't done anything to it yet. I was really hoping someone else would buy it. I don't see how the guy would EVER do anything to the upstairs of either building.

 

 

Has anyone been in the small beer, liquor & grocery markets in detroit?  The floor to ceiling bullet proof glass surrounding the cigarettes, alcohol and employees is a sight to see. 

Not sure if this was already posted or not, but saw on Ohio Historic Tax Credit announcements that 1317 and 1319 Republic Street will be a $3 million project for 12 apartments, 51 East Clifton Avenue into 7 apartments for $750k, and Heberle School in the West End into 59 apartments for an $11.2 million project.

 

A lot of the tax credits were dispersed into Avondale.  Another at 4089 Langland Street in Northside

 

Link to the page, click on top link on page:

 

http://development.ohio.gov/media/media_pr.htm

That means that that entire side of Republic between 13th and 14th has gone from abandoned to fully occupied (with the exception of that one little building) in a few years time. That's impressive.

 

From this pretty good video:

 

There's something interesting about how several metros have unique identifiers for small convenience stores. There's an old thread on Urban Ohio about why they are often called Pony Kegs in Cincinnati.

Whats the difference between:

Bodega

Package Liquor Store

Convenience Store

Pony Keg

 

The Bodega has prepared/hot food?

You left out "Party Stores," which is what they are called in Detroit.

I've always been under the impression that bodegas make food of some specific ethnicity to serve alongside typical convenience store stuff in addition to a handful of items that are more "small grocery" and less "corner store."

Bodega as a term originated from stores in Spanish neighborhoods, most of which probably originally did some sort of food prep, but it has basically become a ubiquitous term for any corner store in NYC. Some definitely make food, some are just like the one in the video above, but they all get called bodegas. The owners/employees are the only ethnic thing about most of them.

 

I think the only difference is regional terminology, which is what makes it interesting. Circle A in OTR is pretty similar to a dozen random bodegas in Queens, but if you call it a bodega here most people have no clue what you're talking about. Similarly, if you called a NYC bodega a pony keg, absolutely no one would understand you.

I've popped my head in when I've seen them working (at nights, on weekends) and there is a wall separating the space into two... so it could very well be everything you've heard!

 

Walked by again last night and it looked like it was totally open... so not sure what I saw before.

 

On the Bodega topic. A place that prepares fresh $5-6 hot/cold sandwiches 24-hours would be perfect in that spot. Egg sandwich on a bagel anybody?

I'm impressed.

 

Home Tour: NEW Elm Street Italianate-style in OTR

 

Slide Show

http://www.wcpo.com/news/news-photo-gallery/home-tour-1428-elm-street?_ga=1.169278881.1490663259.1408545840

 

Story

http://www.wcpo.com/home/home-tour/home-tour-elm-street-italianate-style-in-otr-is-a-little-bit-like-being-dropped-into-the-land-of-oz

I'm impressed.

 

Home Tour: NEW Elm Street Italianate-style in OTR

 

Slide Show

http://www.wcpo.com/news/news-photo-gallery/home-tour-1428-elm-street?_ga=1.169278881.1490663259.1408545840

 

Story

http://www.wcpo.com/home/home-tour/home-tour-elm-street-italianate-style-in-otr-is-a-little-bit-like-being-dropped-into-the-land-of-oz

 

I saw that house last time I was in OTR, I was pretty impressed too.  The only thing I'd change is put the entrance in the front, as the side entrance hurts further re-development of a streetwall.  All and all super nice, the interior really reminds me of nice new build condos in Chicago.  Between this and the new project for Republic street - Huber seems to get it.  Maybe in a few years I'll stay at the airbnb there if all goes as planned ;)

I went to all of the houses on the OTR Holiday Home tour and this one was BY FAR my least favorite.  Awkward spaces, weird finishes, boring layout.  There's a window in the middle of the stairwell looks directly into the shower which is really creepy.  There's a random bedroom on the first floor between the bathroom and the garage.  The pantry is nowhere near the kitchen (which has a severe lack of cabinets to begin with.)  The living room is the smallest room in the house and is incredibly uncomfortable.  Actually, the master bathroom is larger than the living room, kitchen and dining room combined.  I just couldn't get into it.  Such a disappointment.

Beyond the interior choices, do people really think the exterior looks even remotely good? I think it looks ridiculous and hurts the character of everything around it. Windows in the basement that don't align with those above, an insulting excuse of a cornice, awkward color choices, etc. etc. THIS is the reason we shouldn't have historic review boards. Because we end up with jokes like this building. It's not old, yet it's trying to, and failing to, be an Italianate row building with a modernized interior. If it was just honest about what it was, incorporated historic massing and materials, yet in a modern way that says, "I was built in 2014, not 1870" then this would have turned out much better. My only desire is that the house that will be built directly next to this will do a better job but I don't have high hopes.

I'm impressed.

 

Home Tour: NEW Elm Street Italianate-style in OTR

 

Slide Show

http://www.wcpo.com/news/news-photo-gallery/home-tour-1428-elm-street?_ga=1.169278881.1490663259.1408545840

 

Story

http://www.wcpo.com/home/home-tour/home-tour-elm-street-italianate-style-in-otr-is-a-little-bit-like-being-dropped-into-the-land-of-oz

 

I saw that house last time I was in OTR, I was pretty impressed too.  The only thing I'd change is put the entrance in the front, as the side entrance hurts further re-development of a streetwall.  All and all super nice, the interior really reminds me of nice new build condos in Chicago.  Between this and the new project for Republic street - Huber seems to get it.  Maybe in a few years I'll stay at the airbnb there if all goes as planned ;)

 

I agree that side entrances to this style of building usually hurt the overall feel of the house.  From the street it looks more like a multi-unit building when it lacks a front door.  I immediately imagine a stairwell area pocked with damage from decades of moved couches. 

I went to all of the houses on the OTR Holiday Home tour and this one was BY FAR my least favorite.  Awkward spaces, weird finishes, boring layout.  There's a window in the middle of the stairwell looks directly into the shower which is really creepy.  There's a random bedroom on the first floor between the bathroom and the garage.  The pantry is nowhere near the kitchen (which has a severe lack of cabinets to begin with.)  The living room is the smallest room in the house and is incredibly uncomfortable.  Actually, the master bathroom is larger than the living room, kitchen and dining room combined.  I just couldn't get into it.  Such a disappointment.

 

The interior is 'Such a disappointment'... to you.  And you don't own the house, so who cares?  It's a custom build.  That means it's 100% EXACTLY what the owner wanted.  It wasn't some spec build that is a weird layout and no one is gonna want to buy it.  It's literally exactly the layout the homeowner wanted, since the homeowner hired the builder to build exactly the house he wanted.

 

Regarding the exterior, Yes I would have rather had a door on the front, but generally it fits in to the historic fabric. It isn't an exciting new contribution, but also, once the rest of the block is developed it will blend in decently.  There will be 2 more homes exactly like it next door on the two vacant pads adjacent to this one. So there will be three of these that take what used to be a large vacant lot, and they will now have homes. Perhaps the other two will have front entrances- fingers crossed.

The townhouse footprint (and shoebox-shaped lot size) poses many design/architectural challenges compared to boxier residences on squarer lots which allow for more design options.  I doubt if the design was exactly what the owner would've wanted, but rather what he had to accept given the size and shape of the lot.  I love the deck!

 

It's great that people are willing to make the compromises necessary to live in urban townhouses -- of any vintage. 

The primary design issue with a town house on a narrow rectangular lot is whether or not the house is wide enough to accommodate a hallway.  A house on a 15-foot wide lot will generally not have enough space for a hallway whereas a 20-foot wide structure does have enough width to enable a hallway.  I have a 20-foot wide house on a 25-foot wide lot that does have a hallway on the first and second floors, and I find the hallways to be a waste of space.  In CUF you will see many landlords who have turned the front room of a house with no hallways into a rentable bedroom and they force the tenants to use a side door as the main entrance.       

 

As for custom houses, often the person or couple buying a custom-designed house has little idea why they like the houses that they like.  They make a list of "features", hand them off to an architect, and as long as each of those features appear on the plans, they're convinced that the house will be to their liking.  As for houses, there are hundreds of millions of them around the world, and it's amazing that ugly, unpleasant houses still get built.  You'd think we'd have it figured out by now. 

 

Also a lot of the city's zoning classifications, even fairly dense ones, require 5 feet of side setback.  Whether that's 5' on one side and 0' on the other, or 2.5' on each side doesn't matter, but it's something of an arbitrary limitation that can be quite an encumbrance on narrow lots.  I can see the benefit of doing a side entrance in such a situation though, because you can arrange your internal circulation around an entry/stair node rather than long wasteful halls like Jake describes above. 

Yeah that space was probably intended to reduce the likelihood of block-leveling fires, although a fire during windy conditions can still easily leap that gap.  If there is no space between buildings, then construction of a rear patio, pool(!), or yard maintenance requires bringing the equipment and materials directly through the house. 

 

More likely people might choose to do the side entrance in OTR out of misguided security concerns.  Most old townhouses have extremely heavy exterior doors that can't be kicked in, so I'm not sure why people are in such fear of someone busting through the front door in the middle of the night when a side door in the shadows provides more cover for a burglar to do his thing. 

 

As a side note, Mark Twain's gigantic autobiography has some interesting commentary on the first burglar alarms, which were apparently one of the very first uses for electricity, right up there with the electric light bulb.  We can imagine in the 1890s an army of hucksters wearing ill-fitting suits knocking on every door on the block, peddling the false sense of security that came with the era's primitive burglar alarms fitted to every door and window. 

Our 1875 row house has a side entrance as well as a front. It also has an added 2.5 ft step in about midway where the side entrance is. I see many homes like this and assumed it's partly designed for the greatly increased natural light that it enables. I know I appreciate that.