I would like to see the floor plans for that house. The photos make the interior spaces look quite awkward. It looks like there's a massive hallway on one of the floors, which I agree with Jake above is a waste of space in a narrow house. My house is 16'-0" wide but the space works out because there aren't any hallways and utilities/closets/etc. are tucked into one corner so there aren't random bump-outs.

 

Maybe it's personal preference, but other than bedrooms and bathrooms - you don't really need to waste space on partitions in compact, urban homes. In remodels, that's not always possible because many walls are bearing walls, but in new construction there's no reason not to just span structure from one side to the other and be smart about where your partitions go.

I would like to see the floor plans for that house.

 

PM me with your email address.

Non-professional opinion here, but I really like that house.

 

They built it right up against the abandoned structure next door so it really fits in, I'm sure they took on additional risk to do that.  They used brick that has an aged look to it.  The cornices aren't super elaborate, but they look nice, and some of the cornices on actual historical buildings aren't super elaborate either.  The front door vs. side door thing is a complete non-issue in my opinion and I do think having the door on the side is more practical for layout and security.

 

I don't see anything wrong with copying the architectural styles of the past, especially in a historic neighborhood, especially when today's styles inspire so much wailing and grinding of teeth.

 

Let the building's nod to 2014 be the fact that the interior isn't divided into tenements for huge families of immigrants. We can leave the cholera and horse poop in the 1870's, but I think they were onto something with their buildings.

 

^ Well said.

 

 

Let's keep our criticism to exteriors and other publicly influencing factors.  It would be embarrassing if the owner of that house, a new neighbor to many of us, was a commenter or reader on Urban Ohio and just spent $600K building the house of his dream to see a bunch of randoms bashing his interior layout.  Interior layout of a custom built home (it's different to criticize poorly built spec condos) has nothing to do with the urban fabric of Elm Street.  I'm happy a vacant lot is now a well scaled home.  Looking forward to the two next door, and hoping the builder fixes those basement window designs by the next one!

Looking at those photos again, it's a shame that the front facade has conduit for the electrical hookup and a gutter downspout.  The house probably could have been built with a roof that slopes continuously to the rear of the building. 

The electric hookup is unfortunate, but if you don't have a utility pole right in front of the house then you can't do an underground service drop.  Putting the conduits on the side would mean anyone going to the front door would walk by them every time, and I think they'd even be more noticeable.  Not many good choices in this scenario unfortunately.  Also for the roof, if it slopes from front to back then you have only half as much usable attic space, and the access needs to be at the front of the house rather than in the middle which is where the stairs usually are.  If there's no attic then you either have a facade that's too tall to allow for roof slope or a roof that's nearly flat to begin with, which opens up more issues. 

^ Also well said.

Hopefully the power lines will be buried along Elm at some point, and the conduits will go away.

Saw on Hamilton County Auditor that Grandin Properties purchased the old Warner Bros building at the corner of Liberty and Central (1600 Central Parkway).

 

I have no idea if the building lends itself to residential conversion, but hopefully they have a plan for the property.

^ Very cool.

 

Grandin will also be developing two brick buildings on Republic St (1300 block) into 12 apartments.  These will be adjacent to the 5 new John Hueber Homes townhomes.

 

Anyone know who Grandin's architect is?  I think they could do better, design wise.

Saw on Hamilton County Auditor that Grandin Properties purchased the old Warner Bros building at the corner of Liberty and Central (1600 Central Parkway).

 

I have no idea if the building lends itself to residential conversion, but hopefully they have a plan for the property.

 

I always thought that building would be great for a Sam Adams tap room. 

Would just need a connector through the subway, though if you already doing that the Liberty St. Subway Station would rock as a tap room. Just think of all the underground fun that could be had if we relocated the water main.

Proposed $40m development at corner of Walnut and Liberty: http://www.wcpo.com/money/local-business-news/grammers-restaurant-would-be-partially-demolished-in-40-million-project

 

Wade is planning eight large apartments and 40,000 square feet of office and commercial space on a 2.2 acre site in the 1400 block of Walnut Street. He hopes to break ground next summer and be ready for occupancy by 2017. The developments wold be called Grammer's Place and Melindy Flats. Portions of the Grammer's facade and all of its bar would be preserved, but the remainder of the restaurant complex would be razed to make way for a 157-car parking garage that would support the surrounding development.

 

Grammer's is "a bastion of German heritage" that once played host to city politicians, Over-the-Rhine business leaders and Hollywood celebrities, including Elizabeth Taylor, Roderick Crawford, Roy Rogers and Dale Evans, said Jim Tarbell, a former city councilman who owned Grammer's between 1984 and 2007.

 

Wade bought Grammer's from Tarbell and closed it after an armed robbery at the restaurant in 2011. He's been acquiring properties near the intersection of Walnut and East Liberty Street since 2007. He sees the redevelopment of the site as a key step in the formation of a 61-unit community of two- and three-bedroom apartments that eventually will include secure parking, interior gardens and a rooftop pool on a future phase apartment building west of Walnut.

 

After WCPO described Wade's plans for the block, Tarbell said he would be inclined to "go to bat big time" for the selective demolition because the scope of Wade's development is worth pursuing.

 

"The most important things are being preserved and are given huge new life," Tarbell said. "The legacy of Grammer's physically is being preserved and extended. The rest of it depends on how they handle it in terms of the history, all the stories and so forth. We'll see how that plays out."

 

Wade aims to honor Grammer's history by incorporating windows, woodworking and relics from the German restaurant throughout the development. And he claims "not a tile" of the former bar will be disturbed.

 

"We're going to incorporate the Grammer's bar into the commercial development," Wade said. "What that turns out to be, whether it's a bar, a coffee shop, an entry, I don't know. But it will be part of the commercial development."

 

 

 

WDC LLC is seeking to demolish the building on the west side of Walnut, where Phase Two of this Grammer's Place project would eventually be built.

One building in the middle of a big parking lot.  I don't see how this building could remain if we want infill on the empty lots.  If the project gets built as currently proposed, the end product would justify the demolition of this one building, imo.

I agree. And it appears that it's lacking most of its original detail anyway. The cornice is missing some pieces and doesn't look fully original and the ground level is completely devoid of a single detail. The only thing of significance on that entire building are the arched windows which would more than likely be salvaged by someone and could be reused somewhere at sometime on some other building.

 

Situations like these are some of the only times I have no problem with demolition. That MASSIVE open lot surrounding this building would make for a much more efficient, substantial infill building with this one building gone.

Not sure where I stand on that but I would say at least wait until Phase Two of their project is imminent.  I could see them wrecking this building down and then the whole damn thing falling through. 

Not sure where I stand on that but I would say at least wait until Phase Two of their project is imminent.  I could see them wrecking this building down and then the whole damn thing falling through. 

 

Yeah, I don't want to see another empty field like the travesty that happened up in uptown for 10 years where USquare is >:(

I can see no reason why they need to demolish this building at this time, unless they plan to use these lots as a parking lot for Phase 1 residents, which is something that we should not allow anyway. Why not wait until Phase 1 is a sure thing before we start knocking down buildings for Phase 2?

I can see both ways.  Probably more than anything, they don't want to have to deal with the upkeep / maintenance / inspections on the building when their plan is to demolish anyways.  Also, construction cost inflation = would cost less now to do the same exact thing they will be doing in 2-3 years anyways.

^Is there a mechanism in place to allow the demolition with some sort of deposit, in case phase 2 never happens?  Say, $1M (arbitrary number) goes into an account from the demolishing party, and they are not allowed to touch it until phase 2 begins.  And if it doesn't begin by some agreed upon date, that money goes to the city, and is to be spent shoring up other buildings in need of rehabilitation.

I hate the idea of demolishing this building. They can find a use for that shitty old post office building at 1429 Walnut, 2 doors North of here and built probably in the 60's (isn't it going to be a bar?) but they can't seem to find a use for this building?

 

They could easily incorporate this building into their Phase 2 plans if they had any desire to do so. Or if they were required to do so.

I don't know the history of this building, but it has survived when everything else around it has long since been demolished. They want to name this phase 2 of the Grammers development after the old Central Turner Hall (IIRC) well then, use this building as some sort of museum or hall of fame for the German Society's that were all over this block. You could have old Turners uniforms, exercise equipment, Boss Cox memorabilia the possibilities are endless. Turner Hall backed up against Wielerts, they were, for all intents and purposes one building. The Germans drank at Wielerts and headed over to Turn Halle and vice versa. You also had the old Swimming pool and Merry go round where OTR Krogers is. And the Winter home for John Robinsons circus, directly behind this building. The building is a relic from those days and could be used in some cool way to call attention to events and times that it was witness to.

In the history of the changing face of OTR, this building was home to a lot of the Appalachian community's activities. It was literally and figuratively the locus of the Appalachian Identity in OTR. It was home to the Appalachian Identity Center throughout the 1970's,80's,and 90's. So it is linked to the story of OTR's past and can be a part of it's future, which is experiencing change once more. An interesting aside to this, is that before the Appalachian Center moved to this building, it was formerly housed in the old building (green one) at the SWC of Walnut and Mercer. Which we all know was torn down a few years ago.

In the history of the changing face of OTR, this building was home to a lot of the Appalachian community's activities. It was literally and figuratively the locus of the Appalachian Identity in OTR. It was home to the Appalachian Identity Center throughout the 1970's,80's,and 90's. So it is linked to the story of OTR's past and can be a part of it's future, which is experiencing change once more. An interesting aside to this, is that before the Appalachian Center moved to this building, it was formerly housed in the old building (green one) at the SWC of Walnut and Mercer. Which we all know was torn down a few years ago.

 

It never ceases to amaze me when buildings like this and the house Christie's/Lenhardt's was in are not on the historic register. Shouldn't CPA be nominating these left and right?

 

If any of you know of buildings with a story like this that aren't registered, please try to draw some attention to it.

This building is on the register. It's part of the OTR Historic District.

This building is on the register. It's part of the OTR Historic District.

 

Doesn't a building with a story get an individual designation of some sort? I don't know, I guess I just expect being registered to provide some sort of protection. But it doesn't seem to offer much protection in this city. I guess that's because the preservation board is pressured to be developer friendly?

Register listing really only protects things in that further review is needed if federal funds are being used to demolish the structure.  It's also more a matter of guidelines that kick in regarding alterations if federal funds are used as well. 

Were the owners of the Bavarian Brewery requesting federal funds for demolition?

 

It seems to me that in other cities historic registry has more teeth. Am I imagining that?

Different states/cities do things differently.

 

Everywhere in the country, being listed on the National Register prevents federal funds from being used to demolish buildings unless approval is specifically given. No other protection is automatically granted. Some municipalities or states may opt to require approval at the local level to demolish a building on the National Register. Cincinnati has no such requirement.

 

Cincinnati has its own list of historic structures that provides additional protection. Often times these overlap with the National Register, but not always.

 

OTR is protected locally and nationally. Any building in the city's OTR Historic District must receive approval from the city before major renovation or demolition begins.

 

Regarding the Bavarian Brewery: either Covington protects all National Register structures, or they have a separate list of historic buildings and the Bavarian Brewery was on that second list. I'm not sure how Covington works.

 

EDIT:

 

Here is a list of historic districts the City of Cincinnati has designated for protection.

Here is a list of individual historic structures the City of Cincinnati has designated for protection.

^The Bavarian Brewery complex is also massive, hugely visible, architecturally unique, and known to be in decent shape as it recently held a functioning restaurant, bar, arcade, dance club, and bowling alley.  That building in OTR has history, looks to be salvageable, and should be preserved if possible, but it's not really in the same category as the Bavarian Brewery.

^The Bavarian Brewery complex is also massive, hugely visible, architecturally unique, and known to be in decent shape as it recently held a functioning restaurant, bar, arcade, dance club, and bowling alley.  That building in OTR has history, looks to be salvageable, and should be preserved if possible, but it's not really in the same category as the Bavarian Brewery.

 

I wasn't saying it was in the same category, just referring to the processes of getting a demo permit.

 

Thanks for the clarifications, ryanlammi[/member].

Just as a followup, Covington runs things the same way as Cincinnati. You can see here.

 

And a large portion of Covington is in a local historic district. Pretty impressive, actually. Not sure how often they grant demolition permits for buildings in the zone, but the ability to protect their buildings is definitely there.

Just as a followup, Covington runs things the same way as Cincinnati. You can see here.

 

And a large portion of Covington is in a local historic district. Pretty impressive, actually. Not sure how often they grant demolition permits for buildings in the zone, but the ability to protect their buildings is definitely there.

 

Unfortunately their city leadership seems not to recognize Covington's architecture as a liability rather than an untapped asset.  It is among the best-preserved historic areas in the United States but they have people like Stephen Frank running their show. 

 

EXCLUSIVE: Owners explore major development at Findlay Market farm site

Jan 16, 2015, 6:52am EST

Chris Wetterich Staff reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

 

The 1.5-acre city block bordered by Liberty, Elm, Green and Logan streets has an interesting combination of uses today: A charter school, a parking lot, four vacant buildings and an urban farm.

 

But a development group of six led by Steve Tino of Jaymar Cole Investments and REM Group, real estate management companies, has big plans for the site, which was identified by the Courier as one with major development potential for our cover story today on properties along the streetcar line.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/01/16/exclusive-owners-explore-major-development-at.html?page=all

This makes me really happy to hear. This site is begging for something major. I'm really hoping they go towards the residential focused idea. We need residents north of Liberty bad. And with Model Group's big office project on Race by Findlay this would be a good compliment.

 

I also like the sounds of one level of underground parking and, what sounds like, another level that's hidden behind ground floor stuff and then 4 floors of residences or office space. Not as intrusive as the parking plan at, say, 15th and Race. Which is good.

 

The scale as described seems perfect for fronting Liberty. It would really help shrink that spot. It feels entirely too open right now. So much so that it's uncomfortable to occupy any part of Elm or Liberty right there.

 

Can't wait to hear more.

 

Edit: I'm stupid and didn't see the massing models. That handling of the parking fronting Logan is...unfortunate. Granted Logan right there isn't overly pedestrian, but it could be if that half of the site was also fronted with residential.

Hopefully they'll do a golfball drop on the site before redevelopment occurs.

 

 

Very exciting to see those renderings. With this project on Elm and the Grammer's place project at Walnut, Liberty Street would be bookended by two significant projects that could really transform Liberty Streeet. This would be an ideal time for the city to push forward on the <a href="http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/dote/dote-projects/liberty-street-complete-street-project/">Liberty Street Complete Street Project</a>. 

 

I like the massing of the project and how it matches the height of the existing buildings on the site. Does anybody know anything about the REM Group? Have they done anything else in the region?

 

 

 

 

A 3CDC owned building at 18 W. 13th has an LLC applying for a liquor permit, so I would expect a new bar at this location. Circle Hospitality Group LLC is applying for the liquor permit and I believe the name of the bar would be "Remus Pharmacy."

 

http://city-egov.cincinnati-oh.gov/Webtop/ws/council/public/documents/Record?rpp=10&upp=0&m=5&order=native%28%27doc_no%2FDescend%27%29

^That's the retail space in Tea Company Townhomes which they stated awhile back would potentially house a bar. Sounds like that is coming to fruition.

Yikes... I'm not happy about the parking garage fronting Elm. Hopefully there's at least some retail on the ground floor on the Elm side...

^Take a look at those schematic plans again. I'm seeing both schemes with residential fronting Elm. The garage is behind that and fronts Logan (which is in and of itself also unfortunate).

I like the name. George Remus is one of my favorite historical Cincinnatians.

Considering the size of Liberty and the corner lot, there's an opportunity to punctuate that corner with something at least a little taller than the rest.  It's an important corner, especially with the one-way traffic on Elm aimed right at it, so it deserves to have a little more of a wow factor. 

^Take a look at those schematic plans again. I'm seeing both schemes with residential fronting Elm. The garage is behind that and fronts Logan (which is in and of itself also unfortunate).

 

My mistake. For some reason I had it shifted one block over in my mind. Keeping the garage access on Logan is ideal.

Logan St doesn't have much going for it now, especially with the huge windowless back wall of the Boys & Girls Club. It already feels like an alley, so it's the best location for garage access. Logan St ought to be made 2-way to facilitate traffic in and out of the garage.

massing looks pretty good

 

^Take a look at those schematic plans again. I'm seeing both schemes with residential fronting Elm. The garage is behind that and fronts Logan (which is in and of itself also unfortunate).

 

Looks to me like the parking garage fronts Elm on the ground floor of the residential scheme.

Very Cool.  I like the residential scheme better.  Looks like it could accomodate larger housing units and shrinks the parking garage.  In addition more residents mean more 24/7 street activity. I see what natininja is saying about the Elm Street street level garage on slide 7 of 8 of the article.  It would be better if the ground floor had an additional commercial space there to wrap the garage on the Elm St. side.