I don't want to know what people are going to say about some of the architecture we see right now (not necessarily infill in OTR, but other places).  Stuff built in OTR was clearly built to last.  I don't know that post-war tract housing (or suburbs built in the 70s and 80s) was built to last. 

 

Not built to last, but easily repairable.

Tell me if I'm wrong, but is the general consensus is that everything past the Vine Street Kroger in OTR is sort of no mans land still? Tried walking there with my family to kind of explore OTR and can't tell you how sketchy and just weird it felt. Got alot of weird looks, and alot of the buildings looked in rough shape.

 

I guess you got to start somewhere with the revitalization process, but I'm sort of wondering why hasn't development kind of pushed through yet when it comes to the stretch past kroger? Or does everyone follow 3CDC, and until they decide to announce there next big project along that stretch no developer will take there own initiative in rehabbing those old buildings and putting new retail and condos.

 

 

Last time I checked, 3CDC does not own many buildings north of Kroger. Actually, the number of parcels they own north of Liberty in general, compared to south of Liberty, is surprisingly small.

There are some smaller projects going on and the Findlay Market area is seeing some rehabs, but overall, it's still pretty underutilized and there aren't many businesses. 15th/Race should help change that.

That area past the Kroger and leading up to the Kroger definitely needs a lot of work.  I will say though there are some things in the pipeline it seems.

 

On the NW Corner of 15th Street and Vine Street intersection, I believe a private developer is turning the former Schmitty's store into 12 apartments.

 

On the SW Corner, stretching about 4 buildings south on Vine (The last undeveloped building) up to the corner, then west on 15th about 3 properties they have shown renderings of an office development which will include new construction and old.  Here is the latest rendering on that:

 

http://wvxu.org/post/3cdc-project-updates#stream/0

 

On the SE and NE Corner of 15th and Vine, 3CDC also owns those buildings but haven't heard when they will start rehabbing.  Also they own a few of the buildings across the street from there on the west side of the 1500 block of Vine.

 

Honestly I am a bit surprised they haven't finished off Vine Street before working on 15th and Race.  I am certain there is a good reason though, and probably because they want the commercial sector stronger before going for 15th and Vine commercial, IMO.  Then the other Vine Street projects should go quicker after that.

Tell me if I'm wrong, but is the general consensus is that everything past the Vine Street Kroger in OTR is sort of no mans land still? Tried walking there with my family to kind of explore OTR and can't tell you how sketchy and just weird it felt. Got alot of weird looks, and alot of the buildings looked in rough shape.

 

I guess you got to start somewhere with the revitalization process, but I'm sort of wondering why hasn't development kind of pushed through yet when it comes to the stretch past kroger? Or does everyone follow 3CDC, and until they decide to announce there next big project along that stretch no developer will take there own initiative in rehabbing those old buildings and putting new retail and condos.

 

 

 

Nope, not no man's land.  I run up Vine to Liberty and then over to Reading.  I also walk up to the Moerlein Tap room, and Findlay Market.  Each of these involve going north from where I live on Vine up past the Vine Street Kroger. 

Tell me if I'm wrong, but is the general consensus is that everything past the Vine Street Kroger in OTR is sort of no mans land still? Tried walking there with my family to kind of explore OTR and can't tell you how sketchy and just weird it felt. Got alot of weird looks, and alot of the buildings looked in rough shape.

 

I guess you got to start somewhere with the revitalization process, but I'm sort of wondering why hasn't development kind of pushed through yet when it comes to the stretch past kroger? Or does everyone follow 3CDC, and until they decide to announce there next big project along that stretch no developer will take there own initiative in rehabbing those old buildings and putting new retail and condos.

 

 

 

Nope, not no man's land.  I run up Vine to Liberty and then over to Reading.  I also walk up to the Moerlein Tap room, and Findlay Market.  Each of these involve going north from where I live on Vine up past the Vine Street Kroger. 

 

Certainly not everything, and depending on the time of day, there are several active areas north of liberty - Most notably Rhinegeist, Findlay Market, and the Moerlein Brewery. Development is underway but there are areas that can feel empty at certain times and thus not as safe. Walking up Vine or Race north of Liberty on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon when Findlay is in full swing is probably a more comfortable time for families than a weekday evening.

 

3CDC owns 7 buildings between Kroger & Liberty.

A huge glass panel on the Washington Park Garage entrance at Race and 14th was broken this week.  It's the second such incident in the past few weeks. 

^ I suspect that kind of thing happens more often than we realize, but 3CDC stays on top of those issues (replacing broken glass, etc.) to combat negative perceptions that would result if they didn't.

3CDC owns 7 buildings between Kroger & Liberty.

 

They own everything on the Kroger block. And almost none of the rest. Which kind of makes me wonder...what are they thinking about that Kroger block? Do they think Kroger will make a move?

Re: Kroger Block, I just hope they bring back Wielert's Beer Garden where Boss Cox, Rudolph Hynicka, and August Herrmann used to run the city from. It looks like there's room back there for a beer garden.

 

Maybe it could be like Doc Maynard's in Seattle and be the starting place for American Legacy Tours.

My theory from another thread...

 

I suspect that 3CDC will put together some sort of master plan for Vine Street between 14th & Liberty. The Weilert's redevelopment could happen first, but it would make sense for it to be part of a larger plan for that section of the neighborhood. If the rumored Kroger at Central Parkway & Walnut Street gets built, the current [OTR] store could be demolished and replaced with a new Mercer Commons-scale development. (Or Kroger could open a Fresh Fare-type store in the ground floor of this new development.)

Somewhat offtopic, but cool none the less regarding OTR and it's transition that's occurring:

 

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2015/06/12/photographer-liz-dufour-over-the-rhine/71107962/

 

I also really like that quote thats at the beginning of the article.

 

"In all of America, there is no more promising an urban area for revitalization than your own Over-the-Rhine. ... I see in my mind the possibility of a revived district that literally could rival similar prosperous and heavily visited areas.”

 

If cincinnati was smart they would realize the potential gold mine they have with OTR and potential tourism. Highlight it as the largest Historic District in all of America, and highlight it's largest collection of pre-prohibition breweries in all of america and you will have a huge epicenter for tourist and activities. Lack of hotels that are actually in OTR is a bit of an issue though for any real big tourism boom to occur though in otr.

^Cincinnati is smart, it's full of smart people, there are hundreds of people working on this everyday and have been for years. Check out the Over the Rhine Brewery District on Facebook for more information, there is a brewing heritage trail in the works. As for hotels there is already the Symphony Hotel and I could see maybe another boutique hotel opening (also don't forget airb2b's) but hotel space in OTR proper is really not an issue. The streetcar is more than adequate to get tourists into OTR from the downtown hotels which have the capacity to lodge them at the scale that's required.

There is so much potential for continued growth and tourism.  The need to fill in the gap of vacant buildings south of Liberty from Elm to Main Street is number one priority.  It is slowly getting there.  Even driving down Walnut, with the new Barcade open, there is so much more activity there then even last year.  Hopefully Wade gets moving soon on their big development on Liberty and Walnut, that will really close a huge gap.

My theory from another thread...

 

I suspect that 3CDC will put together some sort of master plan for Vine Street between 14th & Liberty. The Weilert's redevelopment could happen first, but it would make sense for it to be part of a larger plan for that section of the neighborhood. If the rumored Kroger at Central Parkway & Walnut Street gets built, the current [OTR] store could be demolished and replaced with a new Mercer Commons-scale development. (Or Kroger could open a Fresh Fare-type store in the ground floor of this new development.)

 

I agree, I think they are waiting to put a big package together.  Also you have to think they may be waiting on Wade with the parking ramp on Liberty and Walnut to help alleviate some of the congestion over there.  I am guessing the ramp will have public money in it so will be shared.

Who owns the hideous building on the southeast corner of Vine and Liberty? If that was torn down and new construction was done on that lot up to Liberty as part of a big project stretching from Weilhert's up to Liberty that would be dramatic.

There is so much potential for continued growth and tourism.  The need to fill in the gap of vacant buildings south of Liberty from Elm to Main Street is number one priority.  It is slowly getting there.  Even driving down Walnut, with the new Barcade open, there is so much more activity there then even last year.  Hopefully Wade gets moving soon on their big development on Liberty and Walnut, that will really close a huge gap.

 

It's funny you mention the increased activity on Walnut.  I moved in at Vine and 14th in 2011.  Back then, the activity was basically limited to Vine up to 13th street (Lackman was really the far end).  I remember thinking how if we could just get activity to increase up to, say, 14th, things would be going great.  Now there is activity all the way up to 15th on Vine and Race, the park is done, there is activity from Central up to Mercer on Walnut--which was always the quietest part--and Main keeps chugging along.  The pace of things is really impressive. 

Who owns the hideous building on the southeast corner of Vine and Liberty? If that was torn down and new construction was done on that lot up to Liberty as part of a big project stretching from Weilhert's up to Liberty that would be dramatic.

 

From their website, "Crossroad Health Center is incorporated as Christian Community Health Services, Inc."

 

http://www.crossroadhc.org/

 

It would be great for them to do a partnership with 3CDC where they sell their land for cheap, and are then given really cheap rent for a long time to continue their mission there.

 

I imagine a 5-6 story building. Retail on the first floor and a mix of office (and maybe residential) for Crossroads and other tenants on the floors above.

Look out, it'll probably get bought out by Crossroads Church.  As an annex to Crossroads @St. Francis. 

All this growth in OTR and we still have to suffer with having Cranley as a mayor.

^ Well, a small percentage of Cincinnatians are resentful of the growth in OTR because it isn't happening in their neighborhood. And those are the same people who show up to vote at every election no matter what.

Crossroads church has no affiliation with St. Francis nor the Crossroad Health Center.

There is so much potential for continued growth and tourism.  The need to fill in the gap of vacant buildings south of Liberty from Elm to Main Street is number one priority.  It is slowly getting there.  Even driving down Walnut, with the new Barcade open, there is so much more activity there then even last year.  Hopefully Wade gets moving soon on their big development on Liberty and Walnut, that will really close a huge gap.

 

I think our top priority should be pushing the development forward all the way up to Mohawk. Some of the most interesting spaces in Over-the-Rhine are North of Liberty. Once the neighborhood is stable the gaps will get filled in, but a lot of the buildings NOL are holding on by a thread. If we lose those, we lose all potential to use those as leverage for tourism and neighborhood development.

^ I couldn't agree more. We have got to rescue what remains of the old.  When it's gone, it's gone forever.

the health clinic is "Crossroad Health Center" (not the plural "Crossroads" of the church)

^noted. thanks

There is so much potential for continued growth and tourism.  The need to fill in the gap of vacant buildings south of Liberty from Elm to Main Street is number one priority.  It is slowly getting there.  Even driving down Walnut, with the new Barcade open, there is so much more activity there then even last year.  Hopefully Wade gets moving soon on their big development on Liberty and Walnut, that will really close a huge gap.

 

I think our top priority should be pushing the development forward all the way up to Mohawk. Some of the most interesting spaces in Over-the-Rhine are North of Liberty. Once the neighborhood is stable the gaps will get filled in, but a lot of the buildings NOL are holding on by a thread. If we lose those, we lose all potential to use those as leverage for tourism and neighborhood development.

 

I don't disagree at all.  I think it will continue moving up Vine Street and up towards Findlay Market.  In my opinion I don't understand why 3CDC would go after new construction on Race Street when they have all those buildings on Vine around Kroger.  Why not let the Streetcar and Market ramp up for new construction and possibly go bigger and better with the condos?  It seems a done deal, however, so not much to do.

 

In regards to what I was saying on south of Liberty, for tourism sake and people who aren't used to the area, getting south of Liberty filled in will allow people to roam between Main and Elm Street with no issues.  I think there are still issues in some crime and blight pockets in between.  You don't want to turn newcomers off on the area based on first impression.  This is what I was getting at.  Get that whole district in sync.  It will take a very long time. 

 

If 3CDC could just roll up Vine Street with the buildings they own, and allow the market dictate new construction, I think that would be best.  The buildings on Vine are very big and tough rehabs, and the corridor needs to extend to UC.

It would be great for them to do a partnership with 3CDC where they sell their land for cheap, and are then given really cheap rent for a long time to continue their mission there.

 

I imagine a 5-6 story building. Retail on the first floor and a mix of office (and maybe residential) for Crossroad Health Center and other tenants on the floors above.

 

I love this idea. Kind of similar to what I hope happens with the Peaslee Center project at 14th and Sycamore.

If the Historic Tax Credits go away its definitely going to be a lot harder to redevelop buildings whether its 3CDC or not.

I think that is the legislators plans.  They are bought by suburban communities, and those communities want to maintain the status quo.  Having the center city redevelop doesn't help their status quo.

Liberty street road diet desperately needs to happen if we want to keep development going north; right now it's a scar in the neighborhood.

thomasbw[/member] or mcmicken[/member] - Can either of you comment on where the Liberty Street road diet stands today?

Widened Liberty in its current condition adds to the NYC feel of OTR similar to Canal or Hudson St. or the bottom "gashed" blocks of 10th Ave. 

 

Liberty street road diet desperately needs to happen if we want to keep development going north; right now it's a scar in the neighborhood.

 

A Liberty road diet and corresponding redevelopment consistent with the Brewery District Master Plan would certainly do wonders for increasing development north of Liberty. However, development is already happening up there, and will continue with the streetcar and the shrinking opportunities to the south. I agree that Liberty is a detriment that could be a catalyst, but development will continue to push out from the Findlay Market area and around the Streetcar regardless.

Not only that but there are now three plans for Liberty-fronting development in the coming years, two on the south side, one on the north side. These will help bridge the development gap quite a bit. Part of the problem isn't so much that Liberty is gigantic, but it's that once you cross it to the south you are greeted by large swaths of empty lots and parking lots. In essence you're doubling the length of the no-man's land between the two sides of OTR.

OTR Candy Bar coming in July: https://mobile.twitter.com/otrcandybar

 

Right across from Findley Market 1735 Elm Street Over-The-Rhine

 

Good to see more local businesses to start opening up North of Liberty.

Here's what I would do if I was a developer:

 

I'd buy the single story warehouse shown below at 130 W McMicken Ave. next to St. Phillipus Church and build a 7-10 story residential apartment building complete with underground parking. 

 

 

• It's tucked into the side of the hill so I think you could get away with the additional height without offending anybody. 

• It's a large site

• It would provide a few hundred residents in the Findlay Market area to support new businesses and keep others open on weekdays and until 9PM

• It would do this all in one motion without having to wait for the slow pace of historic renovations to add residents

• It's near Streetcar Stops

• It would have the size to be a self-contained development with parking and security systems, which is important until McMicken St. can develop further

• The existing structure is the kind of one story structure that, even if it is considered "contributing" it's not contributing much and taking up a large area so it is the kind of thing we should consider sacrificing to rebuild a functioning neighborhood

 

God damn OTR is so beautiful:

 

 

 

It's literally as if someone threw you back into 1940's Chicago or NYC.

NYC not Chicago and areas like Hoboken still look like more intact versions of otr. There were neighborhoods of similar scale in Chicago but the architecture was different. These days those areas are mostly highrises or massive failed urban renewal projects.

 

Cincinnati though is a totally unique city :)  OTR when done will be a neighborhood that ALL of Cincy should be proud of.

So 3CDC has been award 87 Million Dollars of New Market Tax Credit today for there developments in OTR. First time in YEARS they have been awarded this: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/06/15/3cdc-official-funding-drought-is-over.html

 

Now would it be safe to assume that the 87 million dollars will help accelerate 3CDC and potentially other developers to grow in OTR at an even faster rate now with the new awarded funds?

3CDC got only about half of that $87 million.  Cincinnati Development Fund got the other half.

 

"Cincinnati Development Fund and Cincinnati New Markets Fund, the private equity fund operated by Cincinnati Center City Development Corp., were awarded $42.35 million and $45 million, respectively"

3CDC got only about half of that $87 million.  Cincinnati Development Fund got the other half.

 

"Cincinnati Development Fund and Cincinnati New Markets Fund, the private equity fund operated by Cincinnati Center City Development Corp., were awarded $42.35 million and $45 million, respectively"

 

Ah I see. Still, I imagine this would promote even further accelerated growth in otr no?

I am curious to see which project(s) 3CDC puts this funding into.  The Mercer Commons Phase 3 and 15th & Vine projects appear to be stalled because they did not receive this funding for the past two years. Perhaps they will use this money to accelerate those. Alternatively, I heard that they had been seeking New Markets funding for the Ziegler Park/Cutter Playground project. That project could really help development in the eastern part of OTR and Pendleton.

More working being done at the Queen City Radio site. Today there doing environmental cleanup and remediation and removing the underground storage tank on the site...makes me wonder if this is to make way to use that location for a potential court yard/garden?

 

 

I am curious to see which project(s) 3CDC puts this funding into.  The Mercer Commons Phase 3 and 15th & Vine projects appear to be stalled because they did not receive this funding for the past two years. Perhaps they will use this money to accelerate those. Alternatively, I heard that they had been seeking New Markets funding for the Ziegler Park/Cutter Playground project. That project could really help development in the eastern part of OTR and Pendleton.

 

Hold on I'm a bit confused..is there more to phase 3 for mercer commons aside just the Towne Homes there currently building?

 

And what's 15th and Vine, I looked on 3cdc current projects list and 15th and Vine is no where to be mentioned? What was that project supposed to be about?

3CDC got only about half of that $87 million.  Cincinnati Development Fund got the other half.

 

"Cincinnati Development Fund and Cincinnati New Markets Fund, the private equity fund operated by Cincinnati Center City Development Corp., were awarded $42.35 million and $45 million, respectively"

 

Ah I see. Still, I imagine this would promote even further accelerated growth in otr no?

 

CDF funds many projects in OTR, and has for years.

I am curious to see which project(s) 3CDC puts this funding into.  The Mercer Commons Phase 3 and 15th & Vine projects appear to be stalled because they did not receive this funding for the past two years. Perhaps they will use this money to accelerate those. Alternatively, I heard that they had been seeking New Markets funding for the Ziegler Park/Cutter Playground project. That project could really help development in the eastern part of OTR and Pendleton.

 

Hold on I'm a bit confused..is there more to phase 3 for mercer commons aside just the Towne Homes there currently building?

 

And what's 15th and Vine, I looked on 3cdc current projects list and 15th and Vine is no where to be mentioned? What was that project supposed to be about?

 

Troy, I wrote this the other day about 15th and Vine.  They don't list it right now so I don't know if it is in the back burner, but it was on their site for a long time and they may possibly revive now since I believe they had mentioned when they lost out on the credits last year that they would put it on hold, something of that sort:

 

That area past the Kroger and leading up to the Kroger definitely needs a lot of work.  I will say though there are some things in the pipeline it seems.

 

On the NW Corner of 15th Street and Vine Street intersection, I believe a private developer is turning the former Schmitty's store into 12 apartments.

 

On the SW Corner, stretching about 4 buildings south on Vine (The last undeveloped building) up to the corner, then west on 15th about 3 properties they have shown renderings of an office development which will include new construction and old.  Here is the latest rendering on that:

 

http://wvxu.org/post/3cdc-project-updates#stream/0

 

On the SE and NE Corner of 15th and Vine, 3CDC also owns those buildings but haven't heard when they will start rehabbing.  Also they own a few of the buildings across the street from there on the west side of the 1500 block of Vine.

 

Honestly I am a bit surprised they haven't finished off Vine Street before working on 15th and Race.  I am certain there is a good reason though, and probably because they want the commercial sector stronger before going for 15th and Vine commercial, IMO.  Then the other Vine Street projects should go quicker after that.

 

Read more: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,16431.3010.html#ixzz3dA62GjoF

Here's the story from last summer where 3CDC announced they were scrapping the office building that was supposed to be part of Mercer Commons Phase 3.