Random question of the day...But those projects that house many lower income residents that are say on Republic street. Is it safe to assume that many of these residents will be kicked out in the near future by the owner of the building(s), and be redeveloped and resold as half million dollar condos instead due to the increase in property value and demand for housing in OTR?

 

And if so, where will these people go? 

Random question of the day...But those projects that house many lower income residents that are say on Republic street. Is it safe to assume that many of these residents will be kicked out in the near future by the owner of the building(s), and be redeveloped and resold as half million dollar condos instead due to the increase in property value and demand for housing in OTR?

 

And if so, where will these people go?

 

It's not safe to say that. It depends on which projects, owners, and funding sources you're talking about.

Random question of the day...But those projects that house many lower income residents that are say on Republic street. Is it safe to assume that many of these residents will be kicked out in the near future by the owner of the building(s), and be redeveloped and resold as half million dollar condos instead due to the increase in property value and demand for housing in OTR?

 

And if so, where will these people go? 

 

Honestly it's not very likely anytime soon. There are so many vacant buildings and empty lots around OTR left to redevelop that going through the process of kicking out existing residents, an action that would not be well received by the neighborhood, wouldn't make financial sense. Many of the leaders in OTR are working hard to ensure things like this don't happen and so far have been successful. Only a handful of the buildings which have seen recent work were occupied and in those situations there was almost always a compelling reason to assist existing residents in finding a new place in the neighborhood. But the inclusion of low-income units in several big projects has actually lead to an increase in housing for low-income residents, not a decrease.

It definitely depends on the owners. OTR Community Housing will likely not sell unless they sell select units in order to add a greater number of units in other areas with cheaper housing stock. A company that has a commitment with state LIHTC (Low Income Housing Tax Credits) for 30 years like Model Group will do what's in their best financial interests and that's sell the properties once their commitment is up. They are sitting on a gold mine with those.

111 E 12th St was just purchased by Wine House OTR LLC. The address of the LLC is for a house belonging to Anthony and Jodi Maieron.

Random question of the day...But those projects that house many lower income residents that are say on Republic street. Is it safe to assume that many of these residents will be kicked out in the near future by the owner of the building(s), and be redeveloped and resold as half million dollar condos instead due to the increase in property value and demand for housing in OTR?

 

And if so, where will these people go? 

 

Honestly it's not very likely anytime soon. There are so many vacant buildings and empty lots around OTR left to redevelop that going through the process of kicking out existing residents, an action that would not be well received by the neighborhood, wouldn't make financial sense. Many of the leaders in OTR are working hard to ensure things like this don't happen and so far have been successful. Only a handful of the buildings which have seen recent work were occupied and in those situations there was almost always a compelling reason to assist existing residents in finding a new place in the neighborhood. But the inclusion of low-income units in several big projects has actually lead to an increase in housing for low-income residents, not a decrease.

 

The majority of the large buildings on Republic are 30 year LIHTC which had a start date around 2008, meaning they will, at a minimum be low income until 2038. Who knows what will happen then, but there's no guarantee they would switch over at that date. If the owner gets more LIHTC to renovate & they are consistently full they could easily stay for another 30 years.

Urban Sites is renovating quite a few buildings in OTR right now. I had the chance to walk through a few of them recently.

 

1405 Clay Street:

 

 

 

 

Some awesome views from 1405 Clay:

 

 

 

1200 Main Street:

 

 

 

 

1208 Main Street:

 

 

 

 

 

Between 1200 and 1208 Main, there will be 19 apartments and 3 street-level commercial spaces.

 

UrbanSites also just purchased several buildings on Main where The Drinkery and Japps are located. They will be converting the upper floors of these buildings to office space.

^LEED Points!

Just walked down on Main Street earlier today. I don't want to say it was "sketchy" walking down there, considering it was noon and all, but I felt sort of out of place. There was a big congregation of homeless people (I'm assuming) and what seemed like crack addicts waiting by some door by Old Saint Mary Church. I'm not sure if there if some halfway house there, or some homeless shelter? I was even asked if I wanted to by some weed just randomly by this really intimidating black man with tattoos all over his body and face.

 

I try to frequent OTR as much as possible nowadays, but I was kinda shocked/disappointed by many of the pedestrians on the street. I'm trying to use my words carefully, but many were either homeless, or crackheads, or very low income residents. And very few where white collard professionals.

 

Of course this on a weekday, but I guess there just aren't many businesses/office workers in Main yet.

^ My guess is that you are going to feel out of place, and probably not much that can be done about it.

 

As for where you saw the homeless folks hanging out, I think that may be where they line up to take showers. At least I know there is some place on Main St. where the homeless go to get clean, brush their teeth, etc.

Mary Magdalen House across from Park + Vine?

Main is not as nice of an experience these days as Vine or even Race. It does get a little intimidating, although not as much as the corner of 12th and race, even in the middle of the day. Those dudes aren't aggressive, but yeah, sketch city. Good for a free contact high though!

 

The curious thing about Main for me is that it's 2 blocks away from Vine, but they are completely different scenes. One is almost completely whitewashed gentrification and the other is party street.

Main is not as nice of an experience these days as Vine or even Race. It does get a little intimidating, although not as much as the corner of 12th and race, even in the middle of the day. Those dudes aren't aggressive, but yeah, sketch city. Good for a free contact high though!

 

The curious thing about Main for me is that it's 2 blocks away from Vine, but they are completely different scenes. One is almost completely whitewashed gentrification and the other is party street.

 

Why would you say that is though?

 

I know of that many of the restaurants are big draws for the lunch and dinner crowds on vine and such. There's not that many restaurant places on Main, but rather pizzerias and bars, and some small cafes and specialty shops.

 

Granted, I feel that once Ziegler park is renovated, that maybe that will ignite restaurants to take up shop on main.

 

But it is kind of strange why Main is still like that, even though it's probably one of the most redeveloped streets in OTR

^IMO the distinction is because the redevelopment on Vine has been done by 3CDC, while they have done very little on Main.  Things that have been done on Main have been done over a longer, gradual period of time.  I always tell people that Main is a lot grittier than Vine, and I mean that in a good way.  There are shops and places to eat and drink on Main that would never be brought over to Vine, because it doesn't fit the aesthetic.  In a lot of ways, Main has not been redeveloped as Vine and Race have--it just never got to the level of vacancy that the other streets did, and it has had fits and starts of various small developers, business owners, and residents doing their own projects.

 

If I was being honest, I enjoy walking Main more than I do any other street in OTR.  To me, it has an authentic urban quality that the development on Vine just doesn't have (because so much money has been poured into the development on Vine). 

^ MOTR is our favorite bar, hands down. Nearly always interesting music, and the crowd varies in amazing ways based on who is playing. MOTR would never exist on Vine. I agree, it's difference should be celebrated and not worried about.

Main is not as nice of an experience these days as Vine or even Race. It does get a little intimidating, although not as much as the corner of 12th and race, even in the middle of the day. Those dudes aren't aggressive, but yeah, sketch city. Good for a free contact high though!

 

The curious thing about Main for me is that it's 2 blocks away from Vine, but they are completely different scenes. One is almost completely whitewashed gentrification and the other is party street.

 

Why would you say that is though?

 

I know of that many of the restaurants are big draws for the lunch and dinner crowds on vine and such. There's not that many restaurant places on Main, but rather pizzerias and bars, and some small cafes and specialty shops.

 

Granted, I feel that once Ziegler park is renovated, that maybe that will ignite restaurants to take up shop on main.

 

But it is kind of strange why Main is still like that, even though it's probably one of the most redeveloped streets in OTR

 

Last week I was eating lunch at Pho Lang Thang and overheard these two guys talking at the next table over. One mentioned he was at Lachey's (12th & Walnut) and saw some bar on Walnut north of Lachey's, "in the middle of nowhere" as he put it. I was trying to figure out what bar it was -- I thought they were talking about the old Biff's or Grammer's or somewhere north of Liberty. Then he started talking about this bar having video games. I realized they were talking about 16 Bit, which is located at Walnut & Mercer, less than 2 blocks north of Lachey's.

 

My point is that a lot of people who visit OTR do not venture far from their main destination. And they think that something 2 blocks away from an established area is "in the middle of nowhere".

 

Right now we have a bunch of somewhat isolated areas with a lot of activity -- Broadway Commons, the new Alumni Lofts apts., the 12th & Main businesses, the 14th & Main businesses.  It's going to take a few years to fill in the gaps between them and make it feel like one big thriving neighborhood. Urban Sites adding office space above Japps and The Drinkery is going to be huge. Ziegler Park is going to be huge.

Main is not as nice of an experience these days as Vine or even Race. It does get a little intimidating, although not as much as the corner of 12th and race, even in the middle of the day. Those dudes aren't aggressive, but yeah, sketch city. Good for a free contact high though!

 

The curious thing about Main for me is that it's 2 blocks away from Vine, but they are completely different scenes. One is almost completely whitewashed gentrification and the other is party street.

 

Why would you say that is though?

 

I know of that many of the restaurants are big draws for the lunch and dinner crowds on vine and such. There's not that many restaurant places on Main, but rather pizzerias and bars, and some small cafes and specialty shops.

 

Granted, I feel that once Ziegler park is renovated, that maybe that will ignite restaurants to take up shop on main.

 

But it is kind of strange why Main is still like that, even though it's probably one of the most redeveloped streets in OTR

 

Last week I was eating lunch at Pho Lang Thang and overheard these two guys talking at the next table over. One mentioned he was at Lachey's (12th & Walnut) and saw some bar on Walnut north of Lachey's, "in the middle of nowhere" as he put it. I was trying to figure out what bar it was -- I thought they were talking about the old Biff's or Grammer's or somewhere north of Liberty. Then he started talking about this bar having video games. I realized they were talking about 16 Bit, which is located at Walnut & Mercer, less than 2 blocks north of Lachey's.

 

My point is that a lot of people who visit OTR do not venture far from their main destination. And they think that something 2 blocks away from an established area is "in the middle of nowhere".

 

Right now we have a bunch of somewhat isolated areas with a lot of activity -- Broadway Commons, the new Alumni Lofts apts., the 12th & Main businesses, the 14th & Main businesses.  It's going to take a few years to fill in the gaps between them and make it feel like one big thriving neighborhood. Urban Sites adding office space above Japps and The Drinkery is going to be huge. Ziegler Park is going to be huge.

 

Well to be fair, before 16 bit, Walnut street was home primarily to the projects row, empty lots, and Grammers Bar that is falling to pieces.

 

16 bit definitely adds life to that stretch, and soon Che (an Argentinian restaurant) will add even more activity to this stretch. But the real kicker will be when Grammers Place is up and ready, that should really put Walnut on the same level as Vine in terms of activity.

 

That said, I'm really hoping Grammers Place is still happening. I know the Wades are going through a divorce and the ex-wife is apparently taking lead on the project, but it's been kind of hush-hush on that front since the announcement of the project last year.

My point is that a lot of people who visit OTR do not venture far from their main destination. And they think that something 2 blocks away from an established area is "in the middle of nowhere".

Yes, I notice that every time I walk past people who are waiting around for their valet parking attendant at Taft's Ale House. They often look like they feel a little out of place, and I'm guessing that they wouldn't want to be walking any where around there to get their own car. But that will be different as soon as the 15th and Race project starts/finishes, just like all of the other streets.

 

But still, I somehow think that Main will be a little different still, even when things are stitched together. I hope so.

I convinced a group of 8 suburban (Cincinnati & Denver) friends to walk from Taft's to Rhinegeist last Thursday at 8:30 PM. We of course had to walk back as they all parked at the Washington Park garage. While we were all alert to our surroundings, I don't believe anyone really felt unsafe.

Yes, I notice that every time I walk past people who are waiting around for their valet parking attendant at Taft's Ale House. They often look like they feel a little out of place, and I'm guessing that they wouldn't want to be walking any where around there to get their own car. But that will be different as soon as the 15th and Race project starts/finishes, just like all of the other streets.

 

Anecdotally, I have overheard a number of people in Taft's saying from they were from Liberty Township or other exurban areas. I'm glad they coming down to enjoy what OTR has to offer, I just wish more would actually walk around an experience the urban environment rather than driving in and driving out.

 

But still, I somehow think that Main will be a little different still, even when things are stitched together. I hope so.

 

I think Main Street will always be grittier and I prefer it that way. The Main Street OTR organization (formerly Merchants of Main) is doing so well because it's a grassroots effort, not something top-down. Second Sunday on Main, which they organize, is doing extremely well and bigger this year than I've ever seen it before.

Insane!  This McMicken St. shell was listed at $45,000 last week...now they've bumped the asking price by $100,000!

http://www.trulia.com/property/1027479878-50-E-McMicken-Ave-Cincinnati-OH-45202

 

$145,000 for an unrentable building on McMicken St. needing at least $200,000 in work?!!!

 

Question.was always curious but how did the historic commission board approve the buildings that 3cdc built on vine? Isn't the general rule is that new buildings need to follow otr general fabric and design?

 

Also will 3cdc ever include retail on 2nd floors like they have on main or will it only be secludes to the ground floor? Seems like a missed opportunity for more density that way.

Second floor commercial space almost never carries the rents with it that are worth it over using that space as residential. That's why you don't see it very often.

 

3CDC followed the historic guidelines for their new buildings. They have a similar scale and massing to the historic fabric of the neighborhood and have a base, middle, and top that are clearly defined which is the general goal of the historic board. They had to make random minute detail changes through the approval process but overall they were met with acceptance early on because they fit the fabric. You don't have to look old to fit in.

So does the historic board have to give a green light in order for a project to happen. For instance the towne properties towne homes that are being built on elm. The historic board said the homes need to be 3 stories instead of just 2.

 

 

Yes, the historic board has to approve your project.  Even if you are just renovating a place (as I am), you submit your plans to the board.  For old buildings, the main concern is the appearance of the façade and maintaining that.  For new buildings, the requirements are a bit harder to quantify, but essentially your building needs to have a bottom, middle, and top, and not be more than a story or so higher or shorter than the buildings you will be next to.  (Among other things.) 

On the whole Main versus Vine argument, I used to have an office at street level at 14th and Vine.  I will say that the people who think OTR is gentrified have never watched the foot traffic up and down Vine street to Liberty on a weekday from 9 to 5.  If you did, you would think it is a far cry from gentrification. It is evolving, but there's a long ways to go.

On the whole Main versus Vine argument, I used to have an office at street level at 14th and Vine.  I will say that the people who think OTR is gentrified have never watched the foot traffic up and down Vine street to Liberty on a weekday from 9 to 5.  If you did, you would think it is a far cry from gentrification. It is evolving, but there's a long ways to go.

 

I make it my rule to never walk pass the Vine Street Kroger. It's way to sketchy for me there. All of the gentrification stays far way from that Kroger and anything past that on Vine.

 

That will change soon. If you want to see the white washing it all starts near the Mercer, and stuff by Race and Pleasant and of course Washington Park. 

I shop at that Kroger all the time. 

On the whole Main versus Vine argument, I used to have an office at street level at 14th and Vine.  I will say that the people who think OTR is gentrified have never watched the foot traffic up and down Vine street to Liberty on a weekday from 9 to 5.  If you did, you would think it is a far cry from gentrification. It is evolving, but there's a long ways to go.

 

I make it my rule to never walk pass the Vine Street Kroger. It's way to sketchy for me there. All of the gentrification stays far way from that Kroger and anything past that on Vine.

 

That will change soon. If you want to see the white washing it all starts near the Mercer, and stuff by Race and Pleasant and of course Washington Park. 

 

Wrong. Try going in that store and see for yourself. I shop there 3-5 times a week and is the only grocery store I use. Plenty of new residents inside every single time I'm there. It's really not sketchy. The workers there are friendly and helpful and there's always a police officer just inside the door watching the inside and the parking lot.

On the whole Main versus Vine argument, I used to have an office at street level at 14th and Vine.  I will say that the people who think OTR is gentrified have never watched the foot traffic up and down Vine street to Liberty on a weekday from 9 to 5.  If you did, you would think it is a far cry from gentrification. It is evolving, but there's a long ways to go.

 

I make it my rule to never walk pass the Vine Street Kroger. It's way to sketchy for me there. All of the gentrification stays far way from that Kroger and anything past that on Vine.

 

That will change soon. If you want to see the white washing it all starts near the Mercer, and stuff by Race and Pleasant and of course Washington Park.

 

TroyEros you seem really interested in Over the Rhine, but this kind of statement makes me think you don't quite understand it? Vine Street Kroger is fine. 

 

Also "whitewashing" has negative connotations just as much as "sketchy" does.

It's also inaccurate. White washing is appropriating something that is of some other culture and turning into something for white culture. Taking abandoned buildings and giving them new life does not qualify. If OTR was fully occupied and people were being kicked out left and right then it would be white washing. But that's not what's happening.

OTR distillery, event space will bring vision to life

 

“Remember what you think when you first see this,” Michele Hobbs said, pausing, hand on a doorknob, an I-have-an-awesome-secret smile on her lips.

 

Opening the door at the back of the 1939 Over-the-Rhine Tudor house that is the headquarters for her Pet Wants business, she gets the wide-eyed reaction she has come to expect.

 

Calling the space a warehouse – which it is – is like calling a classic Mustang a car: It’s accurate, but boy, does it undersell what you’re about to see.

 

The building dates to 1899, with high ceilings and original wood. It’s large, big enough to accommodate about 400 people, Hobbs figures.

 

As soon as she saw it, she had a vision of what it could be: A band playing. Food trucks. People milling between indoor and outdoor spaces. A glass awning to protect the outdoor space from the ever-changing Cincinnati weather. A big screen showing everything from major sporting events to election night results. A shiny 250-gallon pot still, surrounded by glass, visible from indoors or out. People coming from the last streetcar stop, in front of Rhinegeist two and a half blocks away. More people coming from Central Parkway, using the Central Parkway Protected Bike Lanes, stowing their cycles on an art sculpture/bike rack out front.

 

Cont

I don't know. Its just when I see the residents there...shirtless tatooes all over there face and body with there pants grinding the ground you just get uncomfortable. I'm not a resident of otr. I live in a white suburb. Its just your taught to stay away from people who like thugs and otr has a lot of residents who look like that. Its just something you need to get used to I guess.

No, it's not something you need to get used to, it's something you need to educate yourself on. Not everyone with features you just described is a "thug" or a bad person at all. That's part of the problem faced by urban African American citizens.

No, it's not something you need to get used to, it's something you need to educate yourself on. Not everyone with features you just described is a "thug" or a bad person at all. That's part of the problem faced by urban African American citizens.

 

Amen!  You should chat with the guys out front, TroyEros.  They're actually really friendly.  Ask them for directions or something sometime.

Spare everyone these semantics lessons and holier-than-thou urbanista BS. It's what chases people off this board who are as interested in urban revitalization as the rest of us.

Amen!  You should chat with the guys out front, TroyEros.  They're actually really friendly.  Ask them for directions or something sometime.

 

I'm not saying that they aren't. But I also realize that I shouldn't act as if everything is sunshine and roses either. Many of these residents are some of the most impoverished in all of Cincinnati, if not Ohio. Just last weekend me and friend of mine got spat on by one of these residents for being in there "hood", and was told that we don't belong here and we should go back  from where we came from (where both upper middle class white guys).

 

Again, not saying that every resident of OTR is like this. I hate generalization. But at the same I know that many of these residents are poverty stricken beyond belief (not saying all, but a good chunk of these residents), and that having neighbors just 1 block away on Republic Street being some of the poorest in the nation, while 1 block on the other side of the street there are brand new luxury condos on Vine with people driving Mercedes and Lamborghini's, whilst dining at The Mercer with there 10,000 dollar Rolex's, while some of these residents are barely scraping by money wise, is sure to stir some type of hate and jealousy.

 

I try to put myself in there shoes. And honestly, I would hate the people that visit OTR. People that drive from the burbs and treat OTR as there touring ground. As if it's THERE neighborhood all of a sudden. My neighborhood becoming some rich mans playground to wine and dine. I would be mad. I would be pissed. I would feel like how the Native Americans when the "white man" came and took our land, and told us to move away from these parts.

 

Again, this is just an analogy, but my point is this. OTR used to be one of the most crime ridden, poverty stricken neighborhoods in all of America. For decades this went on, and for decades many of these residents learned how to survive through all of this. All of the crime, all of the gang violence, all of the chaos that goes on the streets. They learned how to get by with nothing and learned how to navigate there neighborhood. Many of these residents still live here today. Many of these residents are still poverty stricken. And when you have people live in OTR and people visit OTR who have it all, who have everything they wanted (the nice car, the nice house, the nice whatever) in life but never got to have, and come and act as if they own these streets (which I see alot of people do) would drive me INSANE.

 

I tell myself everytime I go down to OTR. This is there land, this is there home, this is there streets. These residence went through things that none of us will ever experience and probably never will (In reference to the endless brutal crime violence that went on during the 90's and 2000's). Be smart, be attentive, but most importantly, be respectful.

 

 

As for Vine vs. Main, newcomers are probably not aware that Vine was totally trashed between about 1970 and 2005 with many future 3CDC condo conversions severely damaged by leaky roofs whereas Main never hit rock bottom. I'm not aware of any condo rehabs or decent apartments that existed on Vine prior to about 2007 (except for the Gateway Condos, which don't count).  Pretty much everything on Vine and on nearby side streets has been done by 3CDC in a loft style that is pretty similar from building to building.  Meanwhile Main St. has a fair number of condos that were created in the 90s and in the early-mid 2000s before the crash by a variety of developers.  The big difference is that the Main St. buildings weren't trashed and so tend to have retained much more of their historic features and the layouts of the condos tend to be more traditional. 

 

Here is a Main St. condo I looked (directly above Liberty's, but when what is now Liberty's was a residential unit) at but foolishly didn't buy in early 2013:

 

 

By comparison here is a circa-2010 3CDC condo on 12th St. also taken in 2013:

 

 

So I found this.

 

Grammer Place Phase 1

 

Renovation of 30 dwelling units and three commercial spaces in 6 historic buildings in Cincinnati’s Over-the-Rhine Historic District. 

Under construction, completion in Fall 2015.

 

-New Republic Architecture

 

 

 

http://newrepublicarchitecture.com/projects/grammer-place-phase-1/

 

So perhaps this is why Grammers Place news has been quiet so far? There working on rehabbing all of the buildings on that row first, before starting new development?

 

Also interesting to note the architecture company is the same company 3cdc has hired to build the towne homes on Elm.

 

 

Amen!  You should chat with the guys out front, TroyEros.  They're actually really friendly.  Ask them for directions or something sometime.

 

I'm not saying that they aren't. But I also realize that I shouldn't act as if everything is sunshine and roses either. Many of these residents are some of the most impoverished in all of Cincinnati, if not Ohio. Just last weekend me and friend of mine got spat on by one of these residents for being in there "hood", and was told that we don't belong here and we should go back  from where we came from (where both upper middle class white guys).

 

Again, not saying that every resident of OTR is like this. I hate generalization. But at the same I know that many of these residents are poverty stricken beyond belief (not saying all, but a good chunk of these residents), and that having neighbors just 1 block away on Republic Street being some of the poorest in the nation, while 1 block on the other side of the street there are brand new luxury condos on Vine with people driving Mercedes and Lamborghini's, whilst dining at The Mercer with there 10,000 dollar Rolex's, while some of these residents are barely scraping by money wise, is sure to stir some type of hate and jealousy.

 

I try to put myself in there shoes. And honestly, I would hate the people that visit OTR. People that drive from the burbs and treat OTR as there touring ground. As if it's THERE neighborhood all of a sudden. My neighborhood becoming some rich mans playground to wine and dine. I would be mad. I would be pissed. I would feel like how the Native Americans when the "white man" came and took our land, and told us to move away from these parts.

 

Again, this is just an analogy, but my point is this. OTR used to be one of the most crime ridden, poverty stricken neighborhoods in all of America. For decades this went on, and for decades many of these residents learned how to survive through all of this. All of the crime, all of the gang violence, all of the chaos that goes on the streets. They learned how to get by with nothing and learned how to navigate there neighborhood. Many of these residents still live here today. Many of these residents are still poverty stricken. And when you have people live in OTR and people visit OTR who have it all, who have everything they wanted (the nice car, the nice house, the nice whatever) in life but never got to have, and come and act as if they own these streets (which I see alot of people do) would drive me INSANE.

 

I tell myself everytime I go down to OTR. This is there land, this is there home, this is there streets. These residence went through things that none of us will ever experience and probably never will (In reference to the endless brutal crime violence that went on during the 90's and 2000's). Be smart, be attentive, but most importantly, be respectful.

 

...and your solution is to cross the streets when you see them? I can't imagine why on earth you get spat on. I walk these streets every day, usually dressed up for the office wearing my tie, from McMicken Ave where I live to downtown. I have never once had a negative encounter with anybody hanging out on the streets. I've stopped and chatted with most of them randomly at times and the vast majority are excited about the changes and new people appreciating their neighborhood.

 

I also run a tour shop in Over-the-Rhine. We walk thousands of people north on Vine St every week. (Yes, there are that many tourists in Cincinnati.)  The group that hangs out in front of Kroger always makes it their duty to welcome everybody passing to Over-the-Rhine. They're a lovely bunch. Willie (the one with tight dreads) will bring a water cooler out on hot days and sell water for $1.

 

Dialing it back a bit though, you brought this up by saying that you avoid the Kroger because you fear it. I implore you not to. That store is a wonderful asset to the neighborhood. Go in and check it out next time. We're incredibly lucky to have it.

Amen!  You should chat with the guys out front, TroyEros.  They're actually really friendly.  Ask them for directions or something sometime.

 

I'm not saying that they aren't. But I also realize that I shouldn't act as if everything is sunshine and roses either. Many of these residents are some of the most impoverished in all of Cincinnati, if not Ohio. Just last weekend me and friend of mine got spat on by one of these residents for being in there "hood", and was told that we don't belong here and we should go back  from where we came from (where both upper middle class white guys).

 

Again, not saying that every resident of OTR is like this. I hate generalization. But at the same I know that many of these residents are poverty stricken beyond belief (not saying all, but a good chunk of these residents), and that having neighbors just 1 block away on Republic Street being some of the poorest in the nation, while 1 block on the other side of the street there are brand new luxury condos on Vine with people driving Mercedes and Lamborghini's, whilst dining at The Mercer with there 10,000 dollar Rolex's, while some of these residents are barely scraping by money wise, is sure to stir some type of hate and jealousy.

 

I try to put myself in there shoes. And honestly, I would hate the people that visit OTR. People that drive from the burbs and treat OTR as there touring ground. As if it's THERE neighborhood all of a sudden. My neighborhood becoming some rich mans playground to wine and dine. I would be mad. I would be pissed. I would feel like how the Native Americans when the "white man" came and took our land, and told us to move away from these parts.

 

Again, this is just an analogy, but my point is this. OTR used to be one of the most crime ridden, poverty stricken neighborhoods in all of America. For decades this went on, and for decades many of these residents learned how to survive through all of this. All of the crime, all of the gang violence, all of the chaos that goes on the streets. They learned how to get by with nothing and learned how to navigate there neighborhood. Many of these residents still live here today. Many of these residents are still poverty stricken. And when you have people live in OTR and people visit OTR who have it all, who have everything they wanted (the nice car, the nice house, the nice whatever) in life but never got to have, and come and act as if they own these streets (which I see alot of people do) would drive me INSANE.

 

I tell myself everytime I go down to OTR. This is there land, this is there home, this is there streets. These residence went through things that none of us will ever experience and probably never will (In reference to the endless brutal crime violence that went on during the 90's and 2000's). Be smart, be attentive, but most importantly, be respectful.

 

...and your solution is to cross the streets when you see them? I can't imagine why on earth you get spat on. I walk these streets every day, usually dressed up for the office wearing my tie, from McMicken Ave where I live to downtown. I have never once had a negative encounter with anybody hanging out on the streets. I've stopped and chatted with most of them randomly at times and the vast majority are excited about the changes and new people appreciating their neighborhood.

 

I also run a tour shop in Over-the-Rhine. We walk thousands of people north on Vine St every week. (Yes, there are that many tourists in Cincinnati.)  The group that hangs out in front of Kroger always makes it their duty to welcome everybody passing to Over-the-Rhine. They're a lovely bunch. Willie (the one with tight dreads) will bring a water cooler out on hot days and sell water for $1.

 

Dialing it back a bit though, you brought this up by saying that you avoid the Kroger because you fear it. I implore you not to. That store is a wonderful asset to the neighborhood. Go in and check it out next time. We're incredibly lucky to have it.

 

No, my solution is to politely ackowledge them by giving a head nod and saying hey, or whats up, or just looking down on the ground and keep to myself.

 

I was just trying to make a point that 1 rotten egg ruins the bunch. I'm sure the majority of these residents are kind and welcome the change. But you'll always encounter that "pocket" that despise what's occurring and can be volatile towards said change.

 

That's what I experienced. That pocket. Honestly my biggest fear is being mugged. I have money in my wallet, I wear an expensive watch. I have nice things on me. It would make sense to mug me if I was on an isolated street. Hell, I would mug me if I needed the money.

 

Again, that's my whole point. Many "Cincinnatians" are surburbian folk. Liberty township, Mason, Deerfield, we don't walk. We drive everywhere we go. We don't interact with people ever on the street.  The most we probably walk and interact is at Krogers to do our grocery shopping. This is honestly a new process and world for me. I've never lived in a big city, I've never lived in an urban life style. OTR is like a mini Brooklyn. I just need to learn how to become comfortable with my surroundings and just stop thinking so much.

The way they announced phasing was somewhat odd, but they did state their timeline was to first rehab all the existing buildings. The next phase was the part where Grammar's is followed by the new townhomes followed by the lot behind Kroger.

 

I think it's often a point of misunderstanding when people don't hear public info on projects like this that were announced and think maybe something is wrong. Those initial renderings they showed everyone were extremely preliminary. It's likely that the reason we haven't heard anything is because the architect is working on the project and there isn't anything new to announce. Buildings take a long time to design and if I had to guess the new construction aspects of this project are being worked on behind the scenes and we'll hear something when the design phase is getting closer to a point where the project is closer to a construction timeline.

Financing can also take months to complete as well. Have to factor in time for appraisals and environmental testing as well.

Sometimes I feel like developers would be better off holding off announcing large projects like this because most people don't realize how long of a process it is to go from an idea to a building. But as it stands nothing has happened that would lead to any suspicion towards this project not happening.

Worlds are colliding right here on UO.  I think both sides of what I'm reading here have merit.  Perception is reality.

^Doesn't PR have some influence?  Building buzz?

Amen!  You should chat with the guys out front, TroyEros.  They're actually really friendly.  Ask them for directions or something sometime.

 

I'm not saying that they aren't. But I also realize that I shouldn't act as if everything is sunshine and roses either. Many of these residents are some of the most impoverished in all of Cincinnati, if not Ohio. Just last weekend me and friend of mine got spat on by one of these residents for being in there "hood", and was told that we don't belong here and we should go back  from where we came from (where both upper middle class white guys).

 

Again, not saying that every resident of OTR is like this. I hate generalization. But at the same I know that many of these residents are poverty stricken beyond belief (not saying all, but a good chunk of these residents), and that having neighbors just 1 block away on Republic Street being some of the poorest in the nation, while 1 block on the other side of the street there are brand new luxury condos on Vine with people driving Mercedes and Lamborghini's, whilst dining at The Mercer with there 10,000 dollar Rolex's, while some of these residents are barely scraping by money wise, is sure to stir some type of hate and jealousy.

 

I try to put myself in there shoes. And honestly, I would hate the people that visit OTR. People that drive from the burbs and treat OTR as there touring ground. As if it's THERE neighborhood all of a sudden. My neighborhood becoming some rich mans playground to wine and dine. I would be mad. I would be pissed. I would feel like how the Native Americans when the "white man" came and took our land, and told us to move away from these parts.

 

Again, this is just an analogy, but my point is this. OTR used to be one of the most crime ridden, poverty stricken neighborhoods in all of America. For decades this went on, and for decades many of these residents learned how to survive through all of this. All of the crime, all of the gang violence, all of the chaos that goes on the streets. They learned how to get by with nothing and learned how to navigate there neighborhood. Many of these residents still live here today. Many of these residents are still poverty stricken. And when you have people live in OTR and people visit OTR who have it all, who have everything they wanted (the nice car, the nice house, the nice whatever) in life but never got to have, and come and act as if they own these streets (which I see alot of people do) would drive me INSANE.

 

I tell myself everytime I go down to OTR. This is there land, this is there home, this is there streets. These residence went through things that none of us will ever experience and probably never will (In reference to the endless brutal crime violence that went on during the 90's and 2000's). Be smart, be attentive, but most importantly, be respectful.

 

...and your solution is to cross the streets when you see them? I can't imagine why on earth you get spat on. I walk these streets every day, usually dressed up for the office wearing my tie, from McMicken Ave where I live to downtown. I have never once had a negative encounter with anybody hanging out on the streets. I've stopped and chatted with most of them randomly at times and the vast majority are excited about the changes and new people appreciating their neighborhood.

 

I also run a tour shop in Over-the-Rhine. We walk thousands of people north on Vine St every week. (Yes, there are that many tourists in Cincinnati.)  The group that hangs out in front of Kroger always makes it their duty to welcome everybody passing to Over-the-Rhine. They're a lovely bunch. Willie (the one with tight dreads) will bring a water cooler out on hot days and sell water for $1.

 

Dialing it back a bit though, you brought this up by saying that you avoid the Kroger because you fear it. I implore you not to. That store is a wonderful asset to the neighborhood. Go in and check it out next time. We're incredibly lucky to have it.

 

No, my solution is to politely ackowledge them by giving a head nod and saying hey, or whats up, or just looking down on the ground and keep to myself.

 

I was just trying to make a point that 1 rotten egg ruins the bunch. I'm sure the majority of these residents are kind and welcome the change. But you'll always encounter that "pocket" that despise what's occurring and can be volatile towards said change.

 

That's what I experienced. That pocket. Honestly my biggest fear is being mugged. I have money in my wallet, I wear an expensive watch. I have nice things on me. It would make sense to mug me if I was on an isolated street. Hell, I would mug me if I needed the money.

 

Again, that's my whole point. Many "Cincinnatians" are surburbian folk. Liberty township, Mason, Deerfield, we don't walk. We drive everywhere we go. We don't interact with people ever on the street.  The most we probably walk and interact is at Krogers to do our grocery shopping. This is honestly a new process and world for me. I've never lived in a big city, I've never lived in an urban life style. OTR is like a mini Brooklyn. I just need to learn how to become comfortable with my surroundings and just stop thinking so much.

 

Cheers! We're glad you're trying. Thank you acknowledging that you're maybe doing it wrong. You'll be fine. Don't worry about getting mugged. People aren't looking to work you over and take all your stuff. The petty crimes that do happen occur because they're easy. Don't leave your phone sitting on a surface in public. Don't leave anything valuable visible in your car. Don't go flailing your wallet around in the open. Other than that, your fine. No one is going to beat you down and steal your watch. LOL. Some idiot kids might try jumping at you to scare you on some random side street (which has happened to me a few times) but once you realize that they're just kids being stupid and just trying to get a rise out of you for fun they're pretty easy to roll yours eyes at an ignore.  Remember, the streets are our living room. All the stuff that usually happens inside in the suburbs usually happens outside in the city.

 

It is an entirely different lifestyle from the suburbs and it takes some adjustments. But if you're ready for it, go exploring and don't let strangers sway you. Go inside the Kroger. You'll see that it's actually a wonderful little store.

Yeah but I think they often do it way too early. During the development phase of drawings there isn't much exciting happening for the public to see meaning that buzz they created early on fizzles out. I don't know if I have an answer for what the best timing is, but it seems like most developers jump the gun with project announcements.

I think a lot of times American cities try to overlay a suburban lifestyle on an urban neighborhood. We do this because the vast majority of this country lives a suburban lifestyle. Part of the charm and integrity of Over-the-Rhine is that it's one of the few truly urban areas in the country. "Urban" has many connotations, so let me explain my definition.

 

This isn't a distinction between white or black, poor or rich, young or old... It's a distinction between living socially in the streets versus living independently in our homes.  You don't barbecue in your backyard and invite over specific people, you barbecue on the sidewalk and invite over anyone who walks by. You don't go to the grocery store once per week and stockpile food in your car, you go to the grocery store every day and buy only what you need.  Most of our grandparents lived urban lifestyles until there was a sea change in public opinion driven by many issues in urban America. Over-the-Rhine held onto its urban culture through massive demographic shifts. Today we're experiencing another shift, but it's still the same old urban neighborhood it's always been. In urban areas you're almost always guaranteed to run into people you don't understand at all. It's a fact of life that people who live in urban areas deal with every day.

 

Folks here really don't read the Enquirer? This has been up a few days and I haven't seen it posted.

 

OTR distillery, event space will bring vision to life

 

Opening the door at the back of the 1939 Over-the-Rhine Tudor house that is the headquarters for her Pet Wants business, she gets the wide-eyed reaction she has come to expect.

 

Calling the space a warehouse – which it is – is like calling a classic Mustang a car: It’s accurate, but boy, does it undersell what you’re about to see.

 

The building dates to 1899, with high ceilings and original wood. It’s large, big enough to accommodate about 400 people..."

 

 

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/entertainment/2015/07/30/otr-distillery-event-space--bring-vision-life/30888329/