Some info on 3CDC's latest condo offerings: http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2016/01/19/3cdcs-otr-condos/78695026/

 

Thirty-six condos in the latest phase of projects from 3CDC are listed for sale on the market as of early January, organization spokeswoman Anastasia Mileham said. The number includes three units now under contract.

 

The newer developments – Belmain, Mercer III, Olson, Osborne and Parksite – have prices ranging from $145,000 to $650,000.

• • A lot of new developments were discussed at the OTR Community Council meeting last night.
    
    • OTR Community Housing - Morgan Apartments: Rehabbing 15 units on West Clifton near the steps of Philippus Church. Rehabbing OTRCH units at 19-27 W. Court, 53 E. Clifton, 2 E. McMicken, and 1900-1904 Vine Street. Applying for LIHTC. Model Group is a partner in this project.
      
    • OTR Community Housing - Carries Place: Rehabbing 44 units near 15th and Elm. Applying for LIHTC. Model Group is a partner in this project.
      
    • Cornerstone Properties - Abington Flats: Rehabbing 20 units at 33 Green Street and 30 units in 1500 block of Race and Pleasant. Some commercial spaces managed by 3CDC. Requesting historic tax credits.
      
    • Source 3 Development - Liberty & Elm: Large project rehabbing 4 buildings and creating infill. Over 100 units total (don't remember the number). Building 165-180 car garage for this development and nearby developments to use. All market rate apartments. Worked with OTRCC Board of Trustees as well as OTR Foundation. OTR Foundation still has issues with the proposed development. Membership voted to postpone approval of them pursuing a PD for the site until February. There were concerns about the scale of the development as well as the garage facing Logan Street (we've talked about this on the board, here). They would be preserving the Freeport Alley, but eliminating the portion of Campbell Alley/Street that dead ends into Freeport. OTR Foundation had issue with that. Members were split on the issue and ultimately decided to push it back a month when there was less to consider and more time for the developers to answer questions.
      
    • Grandin Properties - Streitman Building: Large building at the corner of 12th and Central Parkway. Proposed to be office and commercial units. Will secure parking in CET parking and Washington Park garage. 3CDC is confident they have the capacity to lease additional parking during the day. Not enough for the entire development, so they are securing parking from the CET garage as well to meet city code without building their own parking lot/garage. Seeking support for development and parking plan. Was approved.
      
    • Republic Street Rooftop Bar Update: Residents nearby are appealing a dicision by HCB to allow the rooftop bar. OTRCC BoT got approval from members to support the appeal.
      
    • The fence blocking Findlay Playground from Vine Street is being removed to open up the space. This will make it more inviting and discourage drug dealing and drinking in the park. The police are going to start monitoring the park more once the fence is removed. Currently it creates a choke point where they cannot quickly get into the park.

 

Very long meeting with a lot of developments being presented.

Cincinnati Metropolitan Housing Authority could bring huge development with grocery store to Central Parkway

 

“The housing authority wants select a master developer 'with a proven track record in developing and/or serving as the master developer/redeveloper for urban/downtown development projects who have the funding or ability to acquire funding for large scale projects and can work in partnership with the authority.'”

ryanlammi[/member] in case there are others as ignorant as I, could you post information about how one becomes a member of the OTRCC?

 

Also, slight correction - I think that Carries place is developing only 7 of the units at the W 15th location, with the remainder north of Liberty (W. Clifton?)

This is great news since that could be such a high-profile location. Here's the RFQ: https://www.cintimha.com/Data/Sites/1/PDF/solicitation20154026rfq.pdf

 

I'm a bit perplexed by how "market-driven" their goals seem to be, since the CMHA mandate is clearly to provide affordable housing:

 

Development Goals for the Site include:

1. Development of mixed use space for a specialty grocery store, supportive retail, office and/or restaurant space, including a moderate-to-high upscale residential community which may include rental apartment buildings or condos and/or for-sale condominiums.

2. Alternatively, the development of a different signature project that takes full advantage of Downtown Cincinnati and OTR location and compliments newer nearby development.

 

Anybody know the inside politics of CMHA on this?

CMHA also owns the corner parking lot at the corner of Vine Street, adjacent to the giant mural of Jim Tarbell. The RFQ says that parcel is part of the project, so presumably a developer could make use of that parcel which has 45' of frontage on Vine St.

 

Very curious to see what gets proposed for the site.

Cincinnati Metropolitan Housing Authority could bring huge development with grocery store to Central Parkway

 

“The housing authority wants select a master developer 'with a proven track record in developing and/or serving as the master developer/redeveloper for urban/downtown development projects who have the funding or ability to acquire funding for large scale projects and can work in partnership with the authority.'”

 

Right now this abandoned location is a prime spot for drug dealers/users and various other riffraff causing trouble.  If you don't believe me try walking by in the late afternoon to see the drug dealing first hand.  Better yet, talk to the people at Tender Mercies as I know they've not been happy with the activity in Doerr Alley.  Having that site rehabbed would be a godsend.

This is great news since that could be such a high-profile location. Here's the RFQ: https://www.cintimha.com/Data/Sites/1/PDF/solicitation20154026rfq.pdf

 

I'm a bit perplexed by how "market-driven" their goals seem to be, since the CMHA mandate is clearly to provide affordable housing:

 

Development Goals for the Site include:

1. Development of mixed use space for a specialty grocery store, supportive retail, office and/or restaurant space, including a moderate-to-high upscale residential community which may include rental apartment buildings or condos and/or for-sale condominiums.

2. Alternatively, the development of a different signature project that takes full advantage of Downtown Cincinnati and OTR location and compliments newer nearby development.

 

Anybody know the inside politics of CMHA on this?

 

Not sure about the politics of it but the article makes it sound like this development is a CMHA investment looking for a return that they can use on affordable housing:

The proceeds the agency gets from the development would be invested in redeveloping affordable housing, but Johnson said it’s too early to say where.

ryanlammi[/member] in case there are others as ignorant as I, could you post information about how one becomes a member of the OTRCC?

 

Also, slight correction - I think that Carries place is developing only 7 of the units at the W 15th location, with the remainder north of Liberty (W. Clifton?)

 

You may be correct about Carries Place.

 

Meetings are the fourth Monday of every month (no December meeting) at the OTR Rec Center (1715 Race Street) at 6pm. Membership costs $2 annually. You can sign up at any meeting. Nonmembers can attend meetings as well.

 

www.otrcommunitycouncil.org

Interesting that Ndukwe is involved in the Central Parkway CMHA deal. Here's a November 2015 Cincyopolis post from Kathy Holwadel about his other recent projects: https://cincyopolis.wordpress.com/2015/11/04/another-score-for-former-bengal-chinedum-ndukwe/

Rendering of the CMHA site: http://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/new-site-emerges-for-potential-downtown-grocery-store

 

 

 

Wow that would be a hell of an addition to the Central Parkway streetscape. Bigger and taller buildings along Central would do a lot to make the street feel more right sized. Hope this development happens!

10 or so stories along Central Parkway would be great. The current site is very low-density so this will be a nice addition and add some much needed life and density to a street that isn't very active at the moment.

This view is incredible.

 

Hopefully the final product will be that tall and will not get NIMBYed down.

This is exactly the sort of scale that Central needs so as to not feel like a traffic gutter. It could be a really nice boulevard if it gets the right massing along it.

 

I like that the streetcar makes an appearance in that rendering!

A bit more info from the CBC:

 

Plans for $28M OTR grocery store development move ahead

 

The Kingsley + Anchor team is proposing a total of 40,000 square feet of retail/grocery space, 70,000 square feet of office space and 235 parking spaces on the site. [...]

 

Anchor Properties notes in the documents it is “proud of its long term relationship with grocers The Kroger Co. and SpartanNash Foods.” Anchor Properties has developed five Kroger stores in the past 20 years. It’s also working with Kroger to develop an urban store near the University of Cincinnati.

I am so surprised to come in here and see people actually liking this thing. It is soooo generic and boxy. Very uncreative. Investment is great but we really need to move beyond a 'happy with ANY development' mentality. Cincinnati is so far beyond that at this point. Lets hope this gets some rethinking. The thing on the corner is about the cheapest/most suburban way possible to articulate a corner. And it's completely unacceptable to remove Doerr Alley for a ramp.

 

 

Yeah, this thing looks pretty gross. 

 

What's equally disturbing about that aerial is all of the space SCPA wastes for a surface parking lot.  For those who remember what was there before, they tore town about 8 small buildings facing 12th St. to build that parking lot and school.  Those buildings would now be worth a ridiculous amount of money, especially if they had commercial storefronts that could open to the park.  The south edge of the park is the the only dead part of the park, and that's because of SCPA's ridiculous design.   

I really don't have an issue with it, especially since it adds SOOOO much to downtown cincinnati, and OTR. This looks like would fit right in any major city quite honestly. Chicago, Toronto, etc all have urban grocery stores that look exactly like this.

 

I know we should want more/expect more design wise, but guys we are finally getting a LEGIT urban grocery store. This is literally coming at a time in the span of 6 years, after OTR was nominated the nations most dangerous neighborhood in all of America in 2009, and downtown cincinnati was a wasteland.

 

Things are finally happening. OTR is alive. The riverfront is alive, slowly the CBD is coming back alive (though slower), nearby historic neighborhoods like Northside, and soon Walnut Hills are coming back alive. We are finally getting some much public transportation in the street car. Things are happening!

 

And think how quickly all of this has occurred in a such short period of time. It's mind boggling. I'm just appreciating all of this is happening, so quickly. Cincinnati is FINALLY becoming a city again, and not just a suburban paradise.

 

 

edit: That said as far as design goes, since this is within the historic OTR boundaries, doesn't that mean that the developers will have to go through the historic board and get the design approved? At the very least, they can make the building look a little more in line with other OTR buildings as far as dimensions are concerned.

I am curious to see what happens to the parking lot at the corner of Central Parkway and Vine (which is part of the land CHMA owns). It would be great it they could put a building there but there might be some opposition from people who don't want the Tarbell mural to be blocked.

It is a great idea, but I doubt it would actually happen.  For one, CMHA doesn't even own the middle of the block, it is shared parking by all the surrounding properties, and to build a grocery and a garage on top, I think you would need a full block, not a partial block like that shown.

None of what is being presented makes that out to be a hurdle they must get over. The resulting parking garage is larger than the lot there. Maybe all those businesses are on board and want that additional parking behind their building.

In terms of critiquing the design, have at it... but just remember how preliminary all of this is. If CMHA moves forward with Anchor (they're still in negotiations until March 1), the design process wouldn't begin until March. So... take this preliminary drawing with a HUGE block of salt, temper your expectations, and realize that what gets designed will change dramatically based on the outcome of the negotiations, zoning requirements, and historic review.

 

Once CMHA agrees to start negotiations with the development team, Kingsley + Anchor expect discussions to take until March 1. At that time, the second phase of design and approval would begin. That’s expected to last until October. The third phase, financing and leasing, is expected to begin April 1 and end in December. The fourth and final phase, permitting and construction, would start in November and end in June 2018.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/01/26/plans-for-28m-otr-grocery-store-development-move.html

I am curious to see what happens to the parking lot at the corner of Central Parkway and Vine (which is part of the land CHMA owns). It would be great it they could put a building there but there might be some opposition from people who don't want the Tarbell mural to be blocked.

I agree. I love the murals throughout downtown and OTR... but I worry that they will cause resistance to developing the empty lots they face. Almost without exception, the walls they are painted on used to face a building that was torn down (which is why they have no windows). The parking lot at Central/Vine that CMHA owns would provide 120 feet of frontage on Central Parkway and 45 feet of frontage to Vine St, which is a huge opportunity for street level activity, if properly designed. If the garage is going to be so large, then removing those 14 surface parking spaces ought to be considered a mandatory. From a design perspective, it would also allow the building to "step up" to its full height. If it's constructed with 3-4 stories at Vine St, it will be less jarring to step up to the 9 story height than if the surface parking remained and it just shot straight up to 9 stories, with no connection to the surrounding buildings.

The building directly north of the parking lot at Central Parkway and Vine is 4 stories. The new construction "Gateway" development is 5 stories. I would like to see the parking lot redeveloped to 5 stories at the corner.

 

I really like the scale of this development, though. Central Parkway needs tall buildings.

 

And I don't really care how much the grocery story building fits with the historic zoning. It's surroundings currently are a parking lot, SCPA, one historic brick building, and downtown skyscrapers. A development at Central Parkway and Vine would be more important to fit with the context of Vine Street than the grocery building.

I wonder if Kroger's acquisition of Mariano's influenced the design it has that kind of grey and silver motif you find on all their groceries:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8805274,-87.6473208,3a,75y,318.94h,97.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sosU_98u6lon_7EHhCUHp9Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

http://cdn.cstatic.net/images/gridfs/534d7420f92ea14db602389a/broadway-marianos-2.png

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/storyimage/CG/20140127/CRED03/140129792/AR/0/AR-140129792.jpg

 

Even their suburban stores:

http://www.dailyherald.com/storyimage/DA/20130702/news/707029754/AR/0/AR-707029754.jpg&updated=201307030734&MaxW=800&maxH=800&updated=201307030734&noborder

The parking lot at Central/Vine that CMHA owns would provide 120 feet of frontage on Central Parkway and 45 feet of frontage to Vine St, which is a huge opportunity for street level activity, if properly designed. If the garage is going to be so large, then removing those 14 surface parking spaces ought to be considered a mandatory. From a design perspective, it would also allow the building to "step up" to its full height. If it's constructed with 3-4 stories at Vine St, it will be less jarring to step up to the 9 story height than if the surface parking remained and it just shot straight up to 9 stories, with no connection to the surrounding buildings.

 

Looking at the above image, it appears that the corner of Vine and CP becomes a sort of park with some trees. Would be awesome to see an even taller building there eventually.

Question. What happens with the Vine Street Kroger? I'm to assume if this grocery store follows through, then the Vine Street kroger will outlive it's purpose. Question is though is who owns that block? And I imagine if anything that area will be prime for a Mercer Common type high density development.

Kroger owns the land the Vine Street Kroger sits on and the Wades own the giant lot behind it on Walnut which is already slated for redevelopment (though we haven't heard much about that since the Wades announced their pending divorce).

Has anybody been into the upper floors of the old 3-story warehouse building? If the Vine St Kroger were shut down after the Central Parkway one opens, could the building be re-purposed as office/residential? It would be great to see it incorporated into a larger development, either with the Wade's project facing Walnut, or something new facing Vine.

Well you just might be seeing why the Wade project hasn't happened -- perhaps 3CDC or another developer hatched a deal to take the Wade's property + the Kroger and do a big project that will face Vine and Walnut. 

That wouldn't surprise me. I have to imagine that the Wades might not be interested in that site at the moment with everything else happening and 3CDC taking over the entire site was deemed best and most financially savvy for them at the moment. This site from Vine all the way through to Walnut is gigantic. You could easily house a ton of residential space and office space on that combined site.

3CDC owns 1408-1412 Vine, immediately south of Kroger. Does anybody know if the big structure behind <a href="http://www.cincinnativiews.net/wielerts.htm">Weilert's Cafe</a> is the old beer garden? You can see in <a href="http://wedge3.hcauditor.org/view/re/0800001008600/2015/aerial_imagery_full">the auditor's aerial imagery</a> a huge structure, directly south of the Kroger building. If there's any part of the old beer garden remaining, I'd love to see 3CDC restore the old Wielert's beer garden.

 

While we're talking about that block, has there been any movement on the restaurant/bar at 1429 Walnut? I think it was announced as a collaboration between Cheapside and Rookwood, but I haven't heard much about it in a while.

 

 

I think the building needs to be scaled in the back downwards a little.  Maybe create a step type feel off the back of the building.  Stepping down a little bit towards 12th.  I agree that the ramp isn't ideal and should be tweaked.  I think you could take 75 parking spots off the building easily, though if this new garage means a surface lot nearby gets developed that would be awesome too... (Specifically the one Kroger owns at CP & Vine).

Doerr Alley is already capped at 12th Street, so its only use at the moment is as an entrance to a parking lot.  I'm not sure the loss of the alley entrance at Central Parkway would really be a loss.  Could anyone explain to me what the issue is removing Doerr Alley for use as a ramp?

While we're talking about that block, has there been any movement on the restaurant/bar at 1429 Walnut? I think it was announced as a collaboration between Cheapside and Rookwood, but I haven't heard much about it in a while.

 

I have heard that the Cheapside owners are looking at a different location for a possible restaurant in OTR but nothing is official yet.

Doerr Alley is already capped at 12th Street, so its only use at the moment is as an entrance to a parking lot.  I'm not sure the loss of the alley entrance at Central Parkway would really be a loss.  Could anyone explain to me what the issue is removing Doerr Alley for use as a ramp?

 

People just have a hard on for complaining about parking garages. I'm usually pretty anti parking garage, especially when you have quite a few available garages in OTR anyways.

 

But I also see the practicality, especially since the hope is that this will be a grocery store that will serve the majority of the core, we need available parking since our public transit infrastructure is still so piss poor.

Super unrelated but actor Emilio Esevez wants to move to Over the Rhine.

 

http://www.wcpo.com/entertainment/local-a-e/emilio-estevez-wants-to-call-over-the-rhine-home

 

 

It's not really surprising. OTR will be priced out for many of the average wage folk one day. That's okay though, it's special enough to be priced in the range for special people. I'd rather have this happen, rather than the alternative of another period of disinvestment.

OTR has come a long way, but its not as you are describing, putting this here:

 

To give a little perspective on how "hot" OTR, and the Cincinnati metro is generally, compared to the big boys:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2016/01/25/flip-this-condo-seaport-choicest-new-address-already-sees-units-resold/6fnXmTeGN6Wm0rcuNlWquJ/story.html?s_campaign=email_BG_TodaysHeadline&s_campaign=

 

Unfortunately many of the gentrification alarmists, not unlike the suburban streetcar-haters who are upset about high OTR prices, have seemingly no concept of what the crushing housing costs are like in bigger cities.  Even Nashville and Charlotte, for a 3-mile radius in all directions from their respective downtowns, are at least 2X more expensive than Over-the-Rhine.

Doerr Alley is already capped at 12th Street, so its only use at the moment is as an entrance to a parking lot.  I'm not sure the loss of the alley entrance at Central Parkway would really be a loss.  Could anyone explain to me what the issue is removing Doerr Alley for use as a ramp?

 

But it is still open. All that would be required is to remove that fence blocking it from 12th Street. The parking lot you refer to is going to be developed by this proposal, giving us an opportunity to reinstate a proper urban alleyway. I understand that it is just one alley, but OTR has 'privatised' a lot of alleys over the past 10 years which has set a really bad precedent. Left unabated, OTR will keep losing them and miss out on the immense benefits that alleyways and laneways provide towards a walkable and vital urban way of life.

 

Plus, ya know, that ramp is.....shockingly banal.  :? 

I don't have a problem with the ramp in this case, its pretty much a standard feature of urban groceries.  Even in more transit rich cities one of the few things people will do by car is get groceries though not everyone - and I think this place covers all bases.  I don't like the loss of an alleyway but this is pretty much a means to an end to getting something that is a much desired asset.

 

I'm no fan of the design, but I'll admit its in line with contemporary architecture in larger cities.

OTR has come a long way, but its not as you are describing, putting this here:

 

To give a little perspective on how "hot" OTR, and the Cincinnati metro is generally, compared to the big boys:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2016/01/25/flip-this-condo-seaport-choicest-new-address-already-sees-units-resold/6fnXmTeGN6Wm0rcuNlWquJ/story.html?s_campaign=email_BG_TodaysHeadline&s_campaign=

 

Unfortunately many of the gentrification alarmists, not unlike the suburban streetcar-haters who are upset about high OTR prices, have seemingly no concept of what the crushing housing costs are like in bigger cities.  Even Nashville and Charlotte, for a 3-mile radius in all directions from their respective downtowns, are at least 2X more expensive than Over-the-Rhine.

 

I'm well aware. That's why the key word in there was, "One day".

 

There's not that many neighborhoods that are as beautiful as OTR in the Midwest. I predict the property value will only continue to increase over the years.

Anyone have any ideas where the loading ramp would be.... That could be a problem for the neighbors...

If the ramp in its proposed location is a must, which I don't believe it is, and we must lose a vital asset in an alley, then lets incorporate it into some sort of structure. Can we at least attempt to hide it? It isn't clear to me why this hasn't been attempted with this proposal.

 

I'm no fan of the design, but I'll admit its in line with contemporary architecture in larger cities.

 

Aspects of it, perhaps. Particularly the 'glass factory' craze that's been so popular. But that corner articulation and strict boxyness is not contemporary, and looks like something off the Horseshoe Casino.

I'm not sure why were being so critical of this concept art. It's simply that, a concept. It's just a general gist of what can be built there. 

 

I imagine there's going to be quite a few design iterations to match the guide lines set by the Historic Board for what's appropriate for OTR.

3CDC owns 1408-1412 Vine, immediately south of Kroger. Does anybody know if the big structure behind <a href="http://www.cincinnativiews.net/wielerts.htm">Weilert's Cafe</a> is the old beer garden? You can see in <a href="http://wedge3.hcauditor.org/view/re/0800001008600/2015/aerial_imagery_full">the auditor's aerial imagery</a> a huge structure, directly south of the Kroger building. If there's any part of the old beer garden remaining, I'd love to see 3CDC restore the old Wielert's beer garden.

 

Out of curiosity, I walked around the empty lot behind Kroger and grabbed a few pictures of the structure behind Wielert's. You can see a portion of a very ornate gable on the 2nd floor, which is bisected awkwardly by the roof of the extension, which was presumably put on at some later date (I'd guess in the 20s or 30s). Doesn't look like anything from the original beer garden remains, but nonetheless it would make for a great outdoor dining/drinking space if they removed that dilapidated roof.

^I sat on that dilapidated roof and watched the demolition of Turners Gym in the Summer of 74'.  I'm not ashamed to admit that, my 10 year old self shed a few tears over the whole affair.

^I sat on that dilapidated roof and watched the demolition of Turners Gym in the Summer of 74'.  I'm not ashamed to admit that, my 10 year old self shed a few tears over the whole affair.

 

What was the Wielert's building used for at that time? Do you remember?

It doesn't really stand out to me, I can't recall.  I remember it being home to Teen Challenge in the late 70's early 80's. Then it was a church for many years. I remember that the southern portion (open space and the building in the rear was a garage