Here's the updated plan for 15th and Race:

 

 

"3" is a 34 space surface parking lot. "2" is the single story addition on the corner that jmicha[/member] hated so much, and"4" is the amount of density we'll be getting on the Pleasant Street side (10-11 townhomes, tell me those will be less than a half million dollars each.)  We need a garage as I describe above (built underneath "6" extending to the left of this picture under the street) so that 3CDC has the confidence to build taller on the 15th and Race corner and replace some of the townhomes and parking lot with a larger apartment/condo structure.  Density = affordability! 

I got distracted by 215 Wade Street, those are some interesting floor plans. Curved walls with circular showers and curved soffits above? I'm not sure it fits the historic building but I think that's why I like it so much. Page 12 of the HCB packet above.

 

The Kaufman building renovation does look good though, I am excited to see more renovation along Vine Street north of Liberty. That stretch still feels abandoned, but Vine has amazing potential to create a vibrant street from UC's Campus all the way to Carol Ann's Carousel.

IIRC the city put quite a bit of money into the Kauffman building about 10 years ago to stabilize it.

The Kauffman building will be a great start to that part of Northern OTR on Vine Street.  I think also another building on Vine Street maybe across from there or possibly north of there was also selected for historic tax credits.  I agree, that part of Vine is still very desolate but has the potential to be just like southern OTR Vine Street once it's refurbished, a lot of abandoned buildings in that stretch.

It's really important for 3CDC, Findlay Market, and the City to invest in cleaning up Vine St between Liberty and Clifton Ave. Because Vine St is the primary connection between Uptown and downtown/OTR, it's crucial that it make a stronger impression. That should involve undergrounding utilities, planting trees, new street lights, and expanding the "ambassadors" program to ensure litter is picked up daily.

It's really important for 3CDC, Findlay Market, and the City to invest in cleaning up Vine St between Liberty and Clifton Ave. Because Vine St is the primary connection between Uptown and downtown/OTR, it's crucial that it make a stronger impression. That should involve undergrounding utilities, planting trees, new street lights, and expanding the "ambassadors" program to ensure litter is picked up daily.

 

The litter situation on Vine St. North of Liberty MUST be addressed. The amount of broken glass alone makes the sidewalks nearly impassable, especially when walking a dog or wearing sandals/flip flops.

According to Google Maps streetview there isn't a single tree on Vine north of Liberty... :-(

 

It would be great for the city to preemptively add trees (and bury utilities) so that in a year or two when things start to really pick up along upper vine, the trees are established and not just little spindly twigs.

I am in agreement that litter needs to be cleaned up.  In regards to burying utilities and planting trees... If it is evident the area will be redeveloped in the next 5 years or so, I am certain they will take a piece meal approach.  You have to remember all the heavy equipment on the side walks, and roads, etc. is going to cause damage to that concrete, and they would possibly need to replace again in the near future.  Though it is very bleak on that stretch right now, I am OK with them taking a piecemeal approach as they turn abandoned buildings into occupied buildings.

 

IF the new streetwalk would result in more investment, then do it before.  But I think in this situation it is evident that the whole stretch will be redeveloped within the next 10 years.

Speaking of streetscape improvements...When will Elm St, Walnut St, and Clay Street have there utilities buried similar to how Vine has already done?

 

Also, I hope there are plans to get rid of those ugly wooden snake lights (don't know the official name for that style) on Race Street, and replace them with those nice fancy old style lamps that Vine has already in place.

 

I'm also hoping that maybe one day down the road that some of the more residential streets like clay/pleasant/republic/jackson/etc...will have car traffic restriction in place and become woonerfs (like how they are planning for pleasant st), and have the historic brick underneath the pavement exposed with some nice parklets built. 

The Five Points intersection area and Findlay Playground look like disaster zones every afternoon because there's so much trash everywhere. I'm not 100% certain but I believe it is actually cleaned up every morning, or at least several times a week, by the jail's chain gang and/or a few of the local residents. Every afternoon it is back to looking like a dump, though. I'd wager about 90% of the wrappers of items bought at Jack's on that corner end up on the street within a block. That corner is slightly worse than the chicken bone disaster zone that surrounds the corner of Walnut and Liberty, where at least half the bones of the peg legs and flat wings bought at Tina's end up on the ground.

...ugly wooden snake lights...

 

Cobraheads :)

The Five Points intersection area and Findlay Playground look like disaster zones every afternoon because there's so much trash everywhere. I'm not 100% certain but I believe it is actually cleaned up every morning, or at least several times a week, by the jail's chain gang and/or a few of the local residents. Every afternoon it is back to looking like a dump, though. I'd wager about 90% of the wrappers of items bought at Jack's on that corner end up on the street within a block. That corner is slightly worse than the chicken bone disaster zone that surrounds the corner of Walnut and Liberty, where at least half the bones of the peg legs and flat wings bought at Tina's end up on the ground.

 

I don't understand why people have to litter so badly in that area. Is it correlation with people and their perceived environment? So if the place looks like trash (blight, vacant lots, dilapidated buildings, etc) people who live there are more likely to not care and trash there environment?

 

I also don't understand why North Liberty of OTR is so damn dark. It seems like it's a basic human service to produce proper lighting, but at night that stretch of Vine is pitch black at times. That seems like a basic civic service, but is being completely ignored by the city.

Ever since the city sold the streetlights to Duke, it's gotten much harder to have burned out lights fixed.  They want you to give them a pole number rather than an address or description (since they work during the day and have no way of knowing which lights are or aren't working), and it's a very frustrating process. 

The Five Points intersection area and Findlay Playground look like disaster zones every afternoon because there's so much trash everywhere. I'm not 100% certain but I believe it is actually cleaned up every morning, or at least several times a week, by the jail's chain gang and/or a few of the local residents. Every afternoon it is back to looking like a dump, though. I'd wager about 90% of the wrappers of items bought at Jack's on that corner end up on the street within a block. That corner is slightly worse than the chicken bone disaster zone that surrounds the corner of Walnut and Liberty, where at least half the bones of the peg legs and flat wings bought at Tina's end up on the ground.

 

I don't understand why people have to litter so badly in that area. Is it correlation with people and their perceived environment? So if the place looks like trash (blight, vacant lots, dilapidated buildings, etc) people who live there are more likely to not care and trash there environment?

 

I also don't understand why North Liberty of OTR is so damn dark. It seems like it's a basic human service to produce proper lighting, but at night that stretch of Vine is pitch black at times. That seems like a basic civic service, but is being completely ignored by the city.

 

Those areas you say are "pitch black" still have street lights that meet the minimum level of service requirements (which I believe are set by ODOT). But those standards are inadequate for creating urban environments that feel well lit, safe, and attractive. When the city simply follows the standards, we end up with super bright cobraheads spread too far apart, which makes the space between the lights darker (as compared with the evenly illuminated streetscape from lot of smaller lights, spaced more closely together). To go above the minimum lighting standards (more lights allow for each light to be less bright, decorate poles), somebody has to cough up extra money.

^ Plus i bet these standards are set only for cars. Pedestrian lighting seems to not have really factored into the mix in the past (excluding our wonderful little yellow lamps). https://www.facebook.com/CincinnatiYellowLamps/

 

I always have a hard time in general understanding how OTR got as bad as it did in the first place. In European countries you don't really have war zone like ghettos like cincinnati/other American cities have.

 

I remember when I was a teen, and me and a few friends from UC decided to drive down to OTR during the late 90's when it was REALLY bad. It was kind of a cool/scary adventure of sorts driving down those OTR streets and just seeing the horror's of it all. I just never understood how a city, and the people who govern the city and manage it can allow for such conditions. Was cincinnati just really broke and on the verge of a detroit like bankruptcy at a time during the late 90's/early 2000's?

 

I never understood why the city itself was so poor that they couldn't purchase these old buildings and rehabilitate it themselves. I never understood why it meant that if you were poor and underprivileged in America that such poor horrid living conditions like that was deemed okay? It just couldn't wrap my head around it. That there were actual good and honest families living in such a wasteland.

 

Driving down OTR literally felt almost 3rd world country esque. The vacant lots, the crumbling buildings ready to fall. The dirty streets and side walks. No one gave 2 damns about that neighborhood or it's residents, and I felt horrified that such horrid conditions could exist in Cincinnati, let alone America.

 

I understand that there are a lot of neighborhood "ghettos" like this across america. But I never understood why the city leaders aren't put up to higher standards, and why in a country that's deemed so great and mighty like America proclaims itself to be, has neighborhoods where conditions are almost 3rd world country like. Why doesn't Europe have such abundance of dilapidated neighborhoods, but America does?

 

Random thoughts I know, but I always felt amazed by OTR and how those living conditions were considered okay. Human beings, no matter there race or level of income should NEVER be subjected to such conditions that OTR once faced during it's darkest days. But yet, the majority of cincinnatians didn't really care (I'm sure there were groups that did, but I feel like average suburban family from Montgomery probably cared less about the living conditions of a poor african american family) . It seemed very much so, "Not my life, not my problem."

 

 

TroyEros[/member] - to understand how/why the Cincinnati came to neglect OTR, you have to look at the broader trends (which weren't/aren't unique to Cincinnati) of a) modernism which tried to deliberately erase history, b) the de-urbanization of cities made possible by cars and cheap land, c) institutionalized racism and classism which actively tried to isolate (both physically and socially) immigrants, the poor, and African Americans. As I said, these forces/trends aren't unique to Cincinnati.

 

You said that Europe doesn't have such abundance of dilapidated neighborhoods. Of the 3 forces I listed above, I think Europe has more historic buildings today due to the fact that a) there is so much *more* historic building stock in Europe than in the US and b) there are more subsidies given to small farmers, making it more difficult for cities to encroach on farmland.

 

On the issue of institutionalized racism and classism, almost all European countries have more extensive social welfare systems than we have in the US. That being said, you don't have to be a student of history to see how Europe has experienced and continues to struggle with issues of race, class, and immigration.

 

The idea of historic preservation for its own sake is a relatively new idea in Cincinnati. <a href="http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/">The Historic Conservation Board</a> was only formed in 1980.

 

One thing I would note to you specifically, is that when you <a href="http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,14231.msg812927.html#msg812927">talk about your desire for "gentrification" to move north</a> and more generally about how you hope to see the neighborhood change to get things like <a href="http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,1114.msg804680.html#msg804680">luxery retailors (sic)</a>, I would suggest you think about how that would sound to somebody who has lived in OTR for decades, can't afford can't afford luxury retail, and hears the word "gentrification" to mean the displacement of poor people to somewhere less visible, less desirable. Frankly, it reminds me too much of how people in power talked gleefully about how I-75 was going to eliminate the "blight" of the West End, without regard for what would be lost and where those residents would move.

 

I think you and I - and most people on this forum - agree that we want OTR to change. We want the streets to be clear of litter, abandoned buildings to be renovated, empty lots to get infill, and a retail scene that is broad enough to serve both residents and tourists. I personally am renovating an empty building on the northern edge of OTR. But I think it's important for all of us to be sensitive to the history of how the neighborhood came to be this way and how we can make sure it doesn't become a playground for only the rich.

 

I'm sorry if I sound like I'm lecturing. I don't mean to single you out. But you seem genuinely interested in learning how OTR came to be so neglected. I hope your curiosity will prompt you to keep digging further, asking more questions. 

 

Feel free to reach out or shoot me a private message if you'd like to follow up.

 

 

I love this discussion and it is on of the reasons I really enjoy UrbanOhio, we can all come out and talk about these things.

 

I'd like to defend TroyEros just a bit and not that JWulsin, like you said, was trying to lecture, but I think there is just a small way to bridge the gap

 

We all love OTR and all the great things happening.  I think we all get sick to our stomach a bit when we see these beautiful buildings empty and falling apart in some cases, and know it didn't have to be like this but all the factors you mentioned contributed.

 

I've said it before on here and even said before Council Members and the Mayor in e-mails supporting affordable housing in OTR.  The neighborhood is so big that there is room for both.

 

And alluding to what TroyEros was saying, it is shocking to see the living conditions some of these good families were / are living in. 

 

I truly believe there is room for both luxury and affordable housing.  If there is a way to increase the tax credit for lower income families in OTR we should exploit it.  Some of the living conditions still in OTR where family and children live is in bad shape.  If I had the money and means I would love to go through and revitalize some of these buildings for lower income families.  I really believe in my heart that if these lower income families lived in conditions with clean streets, nice lighting, simple courtyards or pocket parks in areas where we can have them now, and most importantly in updated apartments or condos, etc., that these people would feel much better about their lives and be in a better position to succeed both economically and socio-economically. 

 

The people that live in OTR in poor conditions are good people, and they deserve a good home.  They definitely don't deserve to be pushed out via gentrification.  Obviously, some of this is going to happen and is inevitable, but we can at least slow the process or stop the process in some cases by using low income tax credits to give the poor a decent living situation while preserving the buildings we all love.  All of these things are a buffer against the income they are making.  We aren't politicians and I am guessing most of us aren't business owners, so it is hard for us to change incomes, but we can most definitely do all we can to support lower income housing in the neighborhood through revitalization of abandoned buildings for the poor to live in conditions that support them better than what is there currently.

 

Sorry for the ramble, but just some thoughts.

 

What people miss when discussing gentrification is that it is largely caused by federal policy. There is very little that cities (or even states) can do about it. It was federal policy that subsidized suburban growth resulting in the decline of cities and caused property values in places like OTR to become dirt-cheap, which is what allowed them to become a mecca for low-income housing and social services. Now that wealthier people are re-discovering cities and moving back into them, people are blaming cities and developers, which is nuts. The problem isn't that cities are gentrifying, the problem is that we allowed them to decline in the first place.

 

With that being said, I think that the city and 3CDC are doing a really good job of dealing with these problem. Every new 3CDC development incorporates some element of subsidized low income housing. At 15th and Race, 3CDC is currently renovating a vacant building into low income housing, right next to condos that will probably sell for $500k+ each. So I really do not understand all the "boo 3CDC! boo gentrification!" sentiment from the far left.

Does anybody know the status of Hen of the Woods?

 

http://www.henofthewoodsotr.com/

 

I know their (very delicious!) potato chips are being sold at various spots around town. This article from last summer said they were planning on opening a restaurant/bar/market at their Main St location. Have they announced an opening date yet?

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/07/31/underground-chef-bringing-restaurant-and-market-to.html

 

 

What people miss when discussing gentrification is that it is largely caused by federal policy. There is very little that cities (or even states) can do about it. It was federal policy that subsidized suburban growth resulting in the decline of cities and caused property values in places like OTR to become dirt-cheap, which is what allowed them to become a mecca for low-income housing and social services. Now that wealthier people are re-discovering cities and moving back into them, people are blaming cities and developers, which is nuts. The problem isn't that cities are gentrifying, the problem is that we allowed them to decline in the first place.

 

 

Drop the mic here! Good stuff. Here's my meandering thoughts:

 

It was a tsunami of circumstance that led us to where we were circa 2001. Post-war land-use policy was in the bag for government and corporate desires. Plus, WWII taught us to make an industry of...ANYTHING. Cars, houses, real-estate.

 

And that anything was disposable, even if it wasn't. Diapers, appliances, 19th century architecture. This special brand of futurism and consumerism drove the ideal of suburbia with all its fresh newness...cities be damned.

 

Poverty had always been present but its also had a growing subsidy since the 1930s. Social programs are necessary but they've created a poverty of the mind and morality that we've seen in action in the inner city (OTR) and in rural America (Appalachia).

 

This poverty of the mind and morality is what takes a bad situation (undervalued, un-diverse enclaves) and makes it worse (with poor education, filth, disenfranchisement, hopelessness).

 

 

TroyEros[/member] - to understand how/why the Cincinnati came to neglect OTR, you have to look at the broader trends (which weren't/aren't unique to Cincinnati) of a) modernism which tried to deliberately erase history, b) the de-urbanization of cities made possible by cars and cheap land, c) institutionalized racism and classism which actively tried to isolate (both physically and socially) immigrants, the poor, and African Americans. As I said, these forces/trends aren't unique to Cincinnati.

 

You said that Europe doesn't have such abundance of dilapidated neighborhoods. Of the 3 forces I listed above, I think Europe has more historic buildings today due to the fact that a) there is so much *more* historic building stock in Europe than in the US and b) there are more subsidies given to small farmers, making it more difficult for cities to encroach on farmland.

 

On the issue of institutionalized racism and classism, almost all European countries have more extensive social welfare systems than we have in the US. That being said, you don't have to be a student of history to see how Europe has experienced and continues to struggle with issues of race, class, and immigration.

 

The idea of historic preservation for its own sake is a relatively new idea in Cincinnati. <a href="http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/">The Historic Conservation Board</a> was only formed in 1980.

 

One thing I would note to you specifically, is that when you <a href="http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,14231.msg812927.html#msg812927">talk about your desire for "gentrification" to move north</a> and more generally about how you hope to see the neighborhood change to get things like <a href="http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,1114.msg804680.html#msg804680">luxery retailors (sic)</a>, I would suggest you think about how that would sound to somebody who has lived in OTR for decades, can't afford can't afford luxury retail, and hears the word "gentrification" to mean the displacement of poor people to somewhere less visible, less desirable. Frankly, it reminds me too much of how people in power talked gleefully about how I-75 was going to eliminate the "blight" of the West End, without regard for what would be lost and where those residents would move.

 

I think you and I - and most people on this forum - agree that we want OTR to change. We want the streets to be clear of litter, abandoned buildings to be renovated, empty lots to get infill, and a retail scene that is broad enough to serve both residents and tourists. I personally am renovating an empty building on the northern edge of OTR. But I think it's important for all of us to be sensitive to the history of how the neighborhood came to be this way and how we can make sure it doesn't become a playground for only the rich.

 

I'm sorry if I sound like I'm lecturing. I don't mean to single you out. But you seem genuinely interested in learning how OTR came to be so neglected. I hope your curiosity will prompt you to keep digging further, asking more questions. 

 

Feel free to reach out or shoot me a private message if you'd like to follow up.

 

 

My main reason for wanting luxury retailers and gentrification continuing northbound into OTR is that I don't see it happening anywhere else.

 

The CBD for whatever reason just cannot support anything. Restaurants constantly fail in the CBD, retailers constantly fail in the CBD. Just retail in general, for whatever reason just sucks and crumbles in the CBD.

 

But for whatever reason OTR is able to have these businesses and restaurants flourish. I want Cincinnati to elevate as a city. Whenever tourists go to another city they WANT those luxury retailers. For Cincinnati to seriously step up, and become a serious travel destination city, we need a night life district, and a luxury shopping district. All of the big cities, like Toronto, NYC, Boston, San Fran, Miami, Chicago they are LUXURY. They are also one of the most traveled to cities.

 

I guess my point is, is that in order for Cincinnati to eventually reach this tier of "top level" city in America, we need wealth in our urban core. We need luxury retailers, we ultimately need very rich residents, and alot of them.

 

Pushing out poor families and residents sucks. But it also sucks that these areas become breeding grounds for crime, and dilapidated conditions due to poverty. I know for instance if OTR never became an island for poverty, we would see much more buildings intact than we do today.

 

I don't know if there is a balance. I'd like to hope so, but I don't see a future for Cincinnati which doesn't involve extreme wealth in it's neighborhoods.

 

Downtown business districts all have trouble with retail and restaurants.  Without a respectable residential population, restaurants can only survive on lunch and retail also loses out on evening and midday "housewife" shopping.  So all that can make it are high-volume high-turnover mostly fast food chains and stores that can handle the lunch crush.  I think this is changing as more residential developments and conversions have happened, but even the Chicago loop would completely die after about 7:00 pm, while north of the river it would be hopping until who knows when.

 

This is why Hyde Park is such a restaurant and to a lesser extent retail mecca, because it has a lot of residents, workers, and stay-at-home folks making decent money.  Bedroom suburbs don't have the daytime worker population to support so many good restaurants while retail (also of the higher-volume cheap chain variety) relies more on weekend shopping. 

I have a new post up at UrbanCincy with some of my recent photos. Here are some of the ones related to non-3CDC projects.

 

Ensemble Theater:

 

New Central Parkway development:

 

Queen City Radio and Strietmann Biscuit Company:

 

 

Just passed  the Ensemble. Looks like they are getting ready to start construction:

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last I heard from the Cincinnati Metropolitan Housing Authority (CMHA) a couple of weeks ago, the "New Central Parkway development" has stalled.  According to them, "[t]he negotiations with the developer for this property are still ongoing without a time frame for a final agreement".  Here's hoping they do something soon as the open air drug dealing and now shootings on their property is getting old.

Looking questionable at 1132 Race Storefront

Looking questionable at 1132 Race Storefront

 

According to xumelanie[/member] that cardboard sign has been there a while and a quick peep through the window makes it clear it would be a while before any bar would open there.  I know there are outstanding building issues being ignored by the owner at this property and his adjoining 1130 Race property.  I'm going to have to follow up with Building Inspections and the Law Department to see if we're in any danger of the bar reopening at this point.

Urban Sites just closed on 1535-1539 Elm St, directly across from the streetcar stop south of Liberty.

3CDC converting OTR apartments to condos

 

 

Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. is converting an Over-the-Rhine apartment building into condominiums.

 

More below:

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/09/02/exclusive-3cdc-converting-otr-apartments-to-condos.html

OTR's tiny homes finally for sale

Sep 2, 2016, 2:23pm EDT

Andy Brownfield

Reporter

Cincinnati Business Courier

 

Tiny homes that have been in the works for Cincinnati's Over-the-Rhine neighborhood since 2014 are now on the market.

 

Bradley Cooper and his Start Small Homes have listed the two tiny 690-square-foot houses on Peete Street for $194,900 apiece.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/09/02/otrs-tiny-homes-finally-hit-the-market.html

So source 3 elm and liberty project was in the latest HCB. I can't exactly understand if the design was approved or not? There were a lot of letters that continues to pan the design.

 

In all honesty though the new rendering looks pretty decent to me. Brick facade, and is also including cornices with their buildings, that's already better than most infill in OTR. Apparently the overall height of the project hasn't changed much either, which I guess is a good thing and a bad thing depending on how you want to look at it.

Also, the garage building on E 13th street is submitting plans for a rear addition, and a pergola. The developer wants to build a store front, and have a back patio for what I'm assuming is a bar/restaurant. Good use of that space in all honesty, and will be great to see that street see more pedestrian activity, and hopefully more development with rehabs of the existing cluster of buildings that are in pretty bad shape there. 

^^LIberty and Elm was recommended for approval by the board. Good thing, in my opinion. Unlike folks at the esteemed OTR Foundation, I do not have any problem at all with the "excessive massing" of the project. It seems that prerequisite for membership there must include some litmus test about your expressed boundary for "excessive massing." I was a little more surprised to see that BILT architects also objected to the development because of "excessive massing." It's all just a bit dumb. We need human beings up here on Elm st.

I know in the past this project was compared to the uptown u square project, but looking at the renderings, I can't help but feel that this project has much more thought behind it, especially in regards with blending the historical features of OTR.

 

It doesn't feel just simply slapped together is what I'm saying. At the very least it should blend more with the surrounding buildings compared to he Mercer Commons building, or the Gateway Garage building on Vine Street. Plus its nice to have a project that cares about density.

 

 

It's 100% slapped together. It's taking a large structure and copy-pasting various faux-historic details onto it 2-dimensionally so that it "appears" like many smaller buildings.

 

It's all a bunch of BS. It's a terrible design that could have been a good modern building but once again the Historic Conservation Board ruined any of that potential by insisting a building needs to have watered down elements of a historic italianate building.

 

It's garbage. This building will look bad and the Historic Conservation Board should feel partially responsible for it.

 

It's BARELY a step above U Square. Take U Square, give it metal paneling instead of EFIS and you basically have this mess.

I don't know. I'm just an average joe who knows nothing about the in's and out's of architecture (other than what I've learned through these forums of course).

 

To me it looks like a mixture of classic (with the brick facade, cornices) features of OTR, with some modern touches. Just going off the rendering it looks like it should at least somewhat blend in with the existing brick buildings found on elm street.

 

I don't think it looks perfect, but at the same time I think saying it looks garbage and only a touch above the U-Square is a bit harsh. U-Square looks completely uninspired. At least this project feels like it's taking inspiration from OTR's existing fabric.

 

Again, I know nothing. But that's just my average joe, "eye's" talking.

Can someone post the latest rendering again as a refresh? I looked through the thread & google and couldnt find it. THANKS!!!

 

But it's not being inspired by anything in OTR. It's just taking a super vague concept of "cornice" or "materiality" and slapping it on. Being inspired by historic architecture doesn't mean taking its elements, boiling them down to the most boring version of themselves, and tacking it onto a large structure in a manner which tries to create a faux streetscape of multiple buildings.

 

Let it be modern. Let it be truly inspired by the historic context by utilizing design mehodology, graining, etc. as the inspiration, not actual specific stylistic details. Let it take inspiration from the other large floor plate buildings in OTR. There's no reason anyone should be trying to make a building of this size relate to the general narrow building stock of OTR. It relates far more in scale to things like Rhinegeist, the Art Academy, the YMCA building (not in height obviously), the Apex Furniture Building, Jackson Brewery, the Guild Haus building, Rothenberg Academy, etc. Why aren't those serving as the inspiration?

 

I just think this building is exactly what happens when you romanticize architecture and force that romanticized viewpoint onto a modern building that has very little in common with being historic other than proximity to old bulidings.

Jmicha I think your standards are higher, which isn't a bad thing of course.

 

Infill is always a tricky subject, especially when you are dealing with these massive supersized lots. I agree with your statement that it can elevate above, and be "truly inspired", rather than be inspired in such a finicky way.

 

That said, I still think it looks rather decent. At the very least it's better than the Gateway Garage project, and the Mercer Commons project, and is a project that is high density and will be home to hundreds of new residents to that block of elm. Again, in no way, shape, or form do I think this project is ideal. But at the same time, I still even with all of it's "faux" inspiration, it will still look rather solid on that block of elm.

For those who are curious, Source 3 development Elm and Liberty project is on page 101 of the packet

 

http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/september-12-2016-staff-report-and-attachments/

 

The design is final.

 

Apparently a mural will go up on the garage facade as well to hide the blankness of it.

My standards are high. I'm never going to pretend otherwise. But it's because I'm in the industry. I KNOW New Republic has really talented people on their team and that this is so incredibly far from their best work it's sad.

 

And that's not purely the Historic Board's fault. The developer is also likely giving them a tough budget to work within and I can pretty much guarantee there are a lot of "design by committee" situations happening here.

 

But affordably built, contextually appropriate, modern buildings are found all over the world. My standards are high because I know we can do so much better and that the historic buildings in OTR deserve a better new neighbor.

I don't know how much the budget is truly shoe stringed though. They had plenty of opportunities to downscale the entire project but are pretty keen on keeping the project high density.

@jmicha I completely agree with your opinions about new OTR infill. I don't think all of the blame is on the board though. The OTR foundation, citizen groups, and even certain architects complain about "excessive massing" (can we please just leave mass as a noun?) and inadequate "rhythm" on a single lot scale so that it reinforces the board position and historic guidelines. If those same groups were calling for change then I'd think we could get it but it seems really difficult otherwise.

Big OTR office project gets key city incentive

Sep 13, 2016, 6:17am EDT

Chris Wetterich

Staff reporter and columnist

Cincinnati Business Courier

 

The developer of a massive Over-the-Rhine office project will save $3.1 million in property taxes over the next 12 years as it develops the former Strietmann Biscuit Building at 221 W. 12th St. into an office building.

 

The City Council’s Budget and Finance Committee approved a Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design incentive for Grandin Properties on Monday with final approval expected to come at Wednesday’s council meeting.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/09/13/big-otr-office-project-gets-key-city-incentive.html

That's great news on the Strietmann Building and also, $65k per annum in streetcar operations money.

Ed Moss, the owner of Scwartz's Point jazz club passed away on Sept 9. At this point, it's not clear what will happen with Schwarz's Point.

 

Sad news for the Moss family, and I hope the community rallies to support this community treasure.

Ed Moss, the owner of Scwartz's Point jazz club passed away on Sept 9. At this point, it's not clear what will happen with Schwarz's Point.

 

Sad news for the Moss family, and I hope the community rallies to support this community treasure.

 

I probably first saw him play 20 years ago.  Unfortunately a number of the jazz players from that time have died of lung cancer...if you remember how the old Blue Wisp was before the smoking ban, it would come as no surprise.  Not sure what he died of, but that smoky environment was unbelievably unhealthy. 

 

There's a Go Fund Me page for his funeral expenses. I hope the Society Jazz Orchestra can keep working at Schwartz's Point. It definitely needs a responsible owner to make big updates, but hopefully it can continue to serve as a hole-in-the-wall jazz club.

 

https://www.gofundme.com/Ed-Moss

The bodega in the former New York Dry Cleaners building (13th & Main) is now open, although it looks like only 1/3rd of their store is stocked with inventory at this time.

That's good news. Hopefully it's run better than its earlier version a couple buildings north. I'll have to check it out.