The new Cincinnati Shakespeare Company theatre is coming along very quickly. It looks like they have most of the concrete poured for the theatre itself and they're constructing the rest of the building around it. I walked by about an hour ago and they are actively welding and moving building materials around with the crane. They must be obligated to meet a tough deadline if they're working this late into the evening.

 

Think it's possible to get a photo update of the Shakespeare theater, and the 15th and Race project (and other development projects around OTR that are currently occurring?). I'm not able to go down to OTR and much as I used to, and I really enjoy your photo updates!

 

Also, on a side note, I wonder when 15th and Vine will start. 3cdc usually has a tendency to not work on multiple projects simultaneously, so I'm guessing they are probably waiting to wrap up 15th and Race before beginning. 

 

 

​Major OTR development along 'best site' on streetcar line gets approval

 

 

The Cincinnati Historic Conservation Board OK’d a major development along the Cincinnati Bell Connector streetcar line on Monday, clearing another hurdle for a mixed-use project at what one of the two developers involved has called “the best site in Over-the-Rhine.”

 

The panel asked for and received one change to the design of the project at Liberty and Elm streets – a change in color of the metal wall of a corner building from red to metallic gray. The developers, Source 3 and 224 West Liberty LLC, agreed to the change after the panel requested it at its Sept. 12 meeting. The Historic Conservation Board’s staff recommended approval of a certificate of appropriateness for the project.

 

More below:

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/09/27/major-otr-development-along-best-site-on.html

 

Last night the OTRCC voted overwhelmingly to officially oppose this development.

Ugh, how annoying. What does this mean for the project?

^ Does that actually matter, though? Is Planning Commission going to reject the proposal even though HCB has already OK'ed it?

Look at that giant zone of wasted space north of City Hall.  Between City Hall and Police Headquarters on Ezzard Charles, there is literally one active user: the Freestore Foodbank.  Other than that, there are 5 blocks of parking lots/garages and an electrical sub-station.  Combine this with the terrible suburban style office building surrounded by surface parking, and it's little wonder why this part of downtown is so dead.  I really wish something could be done with this area, and that we could connect downtown/OTR with the neat little neighborhood west of Central Parkway.  I have a friend who lives back there, and it's actually super cool and the homes are really well maintained and cared for.  Connecting this neighborhood with the rest of downtown and OTR would be awesome. Given that there's basically no commercial over there, it's like a little bedroom community for downtown.

Last night the OTRCC voted overwhelmingly to officially oppose this development.

 

The Over-the-Rhine Community Council has, is, and always will be a complete joke.  Anyone who has ever been involved in the organization knows it.  Luckily, many people in decision making positions have seen their nonsense first hand and will ignore them.

So, were any reasons given?

Planning commission has already given it conditional approval. They will likely be fine.  Though if you feel strongly, you could always write to council when it comes up and say you support the project and are an OTR resident, etc.

Current state of the Liberty & Elm site:

 

 

 

^Your drone shots are amazing and are so much more helpful in visualizing a development vs. Google Maps.  Thank you!

 

P.S.  Most GCs used to pay a guy in an airplane to take pictures.  I'd imagine the larger GCs have a drone to take their own pictures now, but I bet you'd have a chance of selling these to them as they track their own progress. 

The Towne Properties townhomes along Elm are also making progress:

 

15th & Race update:

 

Is Towne Properties also doing the stuff on both sides of 15th? I biked past there the other day and was surprised to see new construction west of the alley.

 

These people will have a short walk to replace their birth certificates, assuming they were born in Hamilton County. 

 

 

Is Towne Properties also doing the stuff on both sides of 15th? I biked past there the other day and was surprised to see new construction west of the alley.

 

Daniels Homes is doing the 9 townhomes on W 15th (5 on the north and 4 on the south). Plans are also to redevelop the firehouse as a residence.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/11/24/10m-townhomes-project-coming-to-over-the-rhine.html

Is Towne Properties also doing the stuff on both sides of 15th? I biked past there the other day and was surprised to see new construction west of the alley.

it is a different development - not Towne

These people will have a short walk to replace their birth certificates, assuming they were born in Hamilton County. 

 

The "Elm Street Health Center" would make a great conversion to condos. You could probably add 200 residents in that building, which is funny because the entire block of townhomes being built next to it will probably have about 35 residents at most.

^Why would you want to have the Health Center leave, though?

^Why would you want to have the Health Center leave, though?

 

Either way, the building could use a major overhaul.  She looks rough inside and out, and the mechanicals have seen better days.

Is Towne Properties also doing the stuff on both sides of 15th? I biked past there the other day and was surprised to see new construction west of the alley.

 

Daniels Homes is doing the 9 townhomes on W 15th (5 on the north and 4 on the south). Plans are also to redevelop the firehouse as a residence.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/11/24/10m-townhomes-project-coming-to-over-the-rhine.html

 

thanks

^Why would you want to have the Health Center leave, though?

 

I want Hamilton County to build a new office building downtown and consolidate their employees there, so they can sell off Alms & Doepke and 800 Broadway (Times-Star Building) to be redeveloped into residential. Same concept for the Elm Street Health Center (although the owner of that one is the City of Cincinnati, not Hamilton County). If we had more cooperation between the city and county, maybe they could build a joint office building so that all of these government services are located conveniently in the same building. Either the city or county could build the building and the other could be the tenant.

 

Historic buildings converted to residential and new construction for office buildings seems to be the winning formula in Cincinnati, and this plan would advance both.

The Towne Properties townhomes along Elm are also making progress:

 

Where is this at?  Elm and ?

15th & Elm

Are they really only going to put a one or two story building on the corner there?  Why wouldn't they make it three stories like all the other buildings? 

Honestly, it should be 4 or 5 stories. Corners should be more prominent than the interior sections of the block. What's the plan for Pleasant Street again? More townhomes? It looks like construction is starting in the northern parcel, but the corner appears a bit further behind.

Pleasant will have 3 story townhomes.

 

You are 100% correct about the corner. Corners are so important, especially on the streetcar route. It needs to be, at minimum, 4 stories. Combine it with the existing 3 story building to be a larger 4 or 5 story building and you're good.

I agree with the sentiment. But I wouldn't say it's a hard lined rule, particularly if the corner building can be commercial and if they utilize the roof in some way. I always liked the way the Marathon building at 16th and Sansom in Philly sat. It works despite it being shorter than everything else.

Grammer's Place Phase 1 site:

 

 

Phase 2:

 

 

Did the source 3 elm and liberty project get approved?

New Infill development is coming to the Northern Liberty side of OTR on Plesant St

 

http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/october-10-2016-staff-report-and-attachments/

 

Pg 94

 

 

It's interesting that we are slowing but surely beginning to see infill rise in the northern liberties portion of OTR. I would still consider the majority of that area is in poor shape, so it's interesting to say the least. I'm guessing the Liberty and Elm, and Findley Marke/Race St projects are really fueling development now in the northern liberties.

^Why would you want to have the Health Center leave, though?

 

I want Hamilton County to build a new office building downtown and consolidate their employees there, so they can sell off Alms & Doepke and 800 Broadway (Times-Star Building) to be redeveloped into residential. Same concept for the Elm Street Health Center (although the owner of that one is the City of Cincinnati, not Hamilton County). If we had more cooperation between the city and county, maybe they could build a joint office building so that all of these government services are located conveniently in the same building. Either the city or county could build the building and the other could be the tenant.

 

Historic buildings converted to residential and new construction for office buildings seems to be the winning formula in Cincinnati, and this plan would advance both.

I would agree. The Health Center on Elm is there because we no longer had use for the historic school, and nobody wanted to live there/make the investment for historic rehab, so it's a by product of that old model of social services re-use, clustering the programs in low income neighborhoods (i.e. the Buddy Grey plan). Now that the neighborhood is seeing increased investment, the city would be well served to see whether it would make sense to maximize this market position and sell the aging building off and do what Travis suggests. It's not particularly well suited as a health clinic, and many of the people using its services drive there (the parking lot is always packed, and they pack Wade Street as well). Just because it's "always been there" (relatively speaking), doesn't mean it "should" be there.  This is one of those arguments that the self-annointed Guardians Against Gentrification like to use. What should really be examined is where the citizens that are dependent on the services come from. This is one of my big complaints about the Freestore on Liberty. People drive from all over to go there.  Why locate in a congested block on Liberty where they are cramped and want to tear down historic structures in order to expand a driveway? There's no reason to be on Liberty when the vast majority of the people drive in from great distances.

 

Yet I digress.

 

Re the Clinic, I'm just speculating, anecdotally. I don't have information on the clinic's demographics or anything, but rather just observations from someone who has rehabbed and sold two single family homes on Wade Street (one, at 221 Wade, we sold for $599,000, and I will say that a lot of prospective buyers were turned off by the clinic/parking lot. My impression was sort of a "well, then I guess this area is not for you, honestly." The new owner of 221 Wade relocated from NYC. He never saw the clinic parking lot as a big deal at all).

Also from that HCB packet, Urban Sites wants to put a rooftop deck on top of the Mixx building (1203 Main St).

Also from that HCB packet, Urban Sites wants to put a rooftop deck on top of the Mixx building (1203 Main St).

 

I just looked through the construction documents provided they do not show a roof top deck above the fifth floor. They do show rear decks at the second, third and fourth floors though.

And the Film Center building on Central Parkway is getting converted to residential.  Is this new news? I remember the Warner Brothers building was being converted to residential use, but I think this is the first of me hearing about the the Film Center building.  I have to say I'm surprised and impressed with the rehabs moving up Central Parkway. Given the width of the street, its distance from the heart of OTR and the proximity to the West End, I assumed CP would be a relative dead zone for years to come. But with Queen City Radio/Streitman Building rehabs to the south, and the cluster of rehabs (including the little college that took over the building at CP and Liberty) near Findlay Market, Central Parkway is becoming pretty active! Great to see, as the street serves as the welcome mat to OTR for many people coming from the West Side over the viaduct.

 

Also, the addition to the house on Milton Street looks awful. It doesn't match or mesh with the existing structure at all.  I like the look of the home on Pleasant, but laughed when I saw "man cave" in the floor plans and construction documents! That seems so...unprofessional for such documents.

I toured the Film Center building back in Nov. 2014 but Urban Sites wasn't sure what to do with it back then. I was expecting it to be turned into office space. Apartments are probably better for the neighborhood but it's going to be a challenging renovation.

I toured the Film Center building back in Nov. 2014 but Urban Sites wasn't sure what to do with it back then. I was expecting it to be turned into office space. Apartments are probably better for the neighborhood but it's going to be a challenging renovation.

 

The info in the HCB packet says that part of the building will be kept for office space, but it will be white boxed because they haven't been able to identify an office user.  I think only the two story portion that fronts Central Parkway will be the only portion that's converted to residential, but I could be mistaken about that.

I toured the Film Center building back in Nov. 2014 but Urban Sites wasn't sure what to do with it back then. I was expecting it to be turned into office space. Apartments are probably better for the neighborhood but it's going to be a challenging renovation.

 

The info in the HCB packet says that part of the building will be kept for office space, but it will be white boxed because they haven't been able to identify an office user.  I think only the two story portion that fronts Central Parkway will be the only portion that's converted to residential, but I could be mistaken about that.

 

No only the ground floor facing Logan Street will be converted into office, the rest will be entirely residential as I read it. (The first story facing CP would be a floor above the office space due to elevation difference)

OTR is the coolest neighborhood in America.  Just imagine what it could be 15-20 years from now assuming the momentum continues along with streetcar expansions. 

OTR is cool, but not necessarily the  coolest in America.  I'm happy to see where it will be in 10 to 15 years too :).

 

Maybe it will be better known to people outside of Cincinnati, that would be nice.

I don't know a neighborhood that has elements of Boston North End (Pendleton) and mixtures of Brooklyn and Greenwich village in NYC. It's very easy coast transplanted in the Midwest.

 

If anything it's probably the most striking urban neighborhood in the Midwest. I too think a truly revitalize otr has the potential to be a tourism destination

I took photos this past weekend that I'll post tonight or later this week.  It was the first time I simply walked around with a camera in years and it was pretty interesting to see how all of the smaller non-3CDC developers and of course the individual rehabbers are doing different things on each block.  Luckily no one entity got control of too much of the neighborhood so there really is going to be a lot of variety in the infill, even if specific houses or strips of them aren't outstanding. 

 

And speaking of 3CDC in the non-3CDC thread, it'll be interesting to see when the big parking lot in the middle of early 3CDC condos between Vine, 12th, and Republic is redeveloped.  Now that many of the surrounding blocks are filling in completely, the value of those parking lots might rise so high that they can be replaced with underground garages with new housing above. 

I don't know if anyone can confirm the validity of this, but I was told from someone who claims to be in the know with downtown real estate....He said that the Sycamore lot is a hot territory because of its location and the recent redevelopment by 3cdc on Sycamore street,  and that Towne properties is apparently trying to expand their OTR/Downtown portfolio apart from their current elm street condos project. I asked which developer was looking at the lot but he said he couldn't tell me just yet.

 

It seems like he was hinting about Towne properties being a player for those lots but I don't know.

 

 

The Sycamore lot owned by the Joseph family?

I think it's the Levine family. And they're not too interested in developing those lots because they make so much from parking revenue. But if somebody made them an offer they could not refuse...

When 3cdc opens their garage you think that will still be the case? Their are literally 2 garages then. I can't imagine how the lot would remain profitable, especially since it's out in the open, compared to a more secure underground garage.

I think it's the Levine family. And they're not too interested in developing those lots because they make so much from parking revenue. But if somebody made them an offer they could not refuse...

 

Are these people so inept at managing money that they don't think they can make more money in the future once these lots are sold? I mean, once you have money, it's pretty easy to make more of it.  Take a big payment for your parking lots, buy a safe stock, invest in real estate, open a business- whatever. I've never understood the philosophy of just sitting on surface parking lots because they make good money.  There are plenty of other ways to passively create income, and many have a much greater upside than simply owning a parking lot.

The thing is that parking lots are essentially zero risk and have a higher payout than other safe investments as you listed. If you can guarantee you'll still pull in millions (and they do) without having to do a single thing and with essentially no operating costs above the parking lot management company then it makes really good business sense to hold onto that and then reinvest the income from that passive form into something that requires more active management that might be a bit risky but has the chance for higher payout. And if that high risk investment doesn't work out, just wait another year and you'll get your stable millions from the parking infrastructure you always have in your back pocket.

Every year, those lots bring in hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue. There is no expense to running them other than the kiosk that sells tickets, resurfacing the lot every few years, and property tax. It's hard to think of another business that prints money with less effort or risk.

 

Parking lots that are near courthouses are especially profitable. If people are running late for a court date, they will pay any amount imaginable to park in a surface lot as close as possible to the courthouse.

 

If the city or county wanted to encourage development of these lots, they should place a special tax or fee on surface parking lots located within the urban core. Actually, I think MSD is doing something along these lines to try to account for the extra stormwater runoff that comes from large surface lots.

 

Until they do so, the parking lot owners will sit on their risk-free investments until somebody like 3CDC comes to them and offers huge sums of money to buy them.

I don't mean to argumentative, but do any of you have any actual numbers for parking?

 

Take for example, 209 East Court St. Most all of the spaces are monthly and I think they are still $60.

 

The property is 8000 square feet and that translates to about 30 cars. It is assessed at 862000 and even with half of that being tif, the taxes are 29000.

 

It requires snow and debris removal, some security, blacktop and striping and if there were hourly parkers, attendees.