May 1, 20187 yr As long as there are vacant buildings, I'd prefer to wait on the infill. As space for development becomes more scarce and property values are higher, you're more likely to get better architecture and ideally taller (within reason) buildings with more residential units or offices. The infill apartments going in on Calhoun between Uncle Woody's and Toppers will be on a 50-foot lot. Today I saw an elevator shaft going up, likely to a fourth of fifth floor. This is the sort of infill we should be getting in OTR, not more single-family houses. But there is no way to easily zone out single-family construction on single lots.
May 1, 20187 yr You don't really realize it until you look at aerial images, but the 1200 block of Vine has had quite a few demolitions and about 1/3 of its street frontage is taken up by parking lots. However, between 13th and 15th (now that Trinity Flats/Mercer Commons/15th & Vine are done and the Kroger site will be redeveloped soon), there is only one small parking lot that isn't planned for redevelopment. I would love to see a new office building built on the parking lot at 12th & Vine some day, and you can guarantee this is on 3CDC's radar. The more annoying lot is the one between Idlewild Woman and A Tavola. Since that one is used by residents of Vine Street condos (probably owned by their HOA?), I have a hard time believing that they will ever agree to "sell back" that lot to 3CDC to be redeveloped.
May 1, 20187 yr I have faith that infill will come to the smattering of vacant lots and surface parking lots in OTR, but I think some real attention needs to be paid to the southern gateway to the neighborhood along Central Parkway. Other than the Emery Building where Coffee Emporium is, there are surface parking lots and some inactive and inhospitable uses fronting Central. The block on Main where the Davis furniture building is located is probably the worst, but even at Vine there is a parking lot in front of the Tarbell mural. Since OTR is becoming more and more of a tourist destination, and most tourists stay downtown, this entrance to the neighborhood is critically important. I don't think we need to get chintzy and put in a giant chandelier over the street (sorry, had to cleveland), but a solid streetwall with active ground floor uses would do wonders. Court Street is about to get a makeover with the Kroger and apartments, and the 3CDC conversion of some of the historic buildings along that street, so that will help ease the entry to OTR on the south side of Central, but I think some real attention needs to be paid to the north side. Even some new streetscaping and maybe some bike lanes along Central could also help. IMO, this is just as important as the Liberty Street road diet project.
May 1, 20187 yr I have faith that infill will come to the smattering of vacant lots and surface parking lots in OTR, but I think some real attention needs to be paid to the southern gateway to the neighborhood along Central Parkway. Other than the Emery Building where Coffee Emporium is, there are surface parking lots and some inactive and inhospitable uses fronting Central. The block on Main where the Davis furniture building is located is probably the worst, but even at Vine there is a parking lot in front of the Tarbell mural. Since OTR is becoming more and more of a tourist destination, and most tourists stay downtown, this entrance to the neighborhood is critically important. I don't think we need to get chintzy and put in a giant chandelier over the street (sorry, had to cleveland), but a solid streetwall with active ground floor uses would do wonders. Court Street is about to get a makeover with the Kroger and apartments, and the 3CDC conversion of some of the historic buildings along that street, so that will help ease the entry to OTR on the south side of Central, but I think some real attention needs to be paid to the north side. Even some new streetscaping and maybe some bike lanes along Central could also help. IMO, this is just as important as the Liberty Street road diet project. Why would someone even put a giant chandelier over a wide Detroit-esque road like Central Parkway? At least in Playhouse Square the chandelier fits in with the theme of that neighborhood (I am not a fan of it, but it's there). Not to mention Euclid is narrow enough with a canyon-like stretch of downtown that has filled in several gaps, including the new residential highrise underway. Fill in central with some nice infill, which they are slowly starting to do. But that huge mess of a gap (Central) needs to be addressed.
May 1, 20187 yr ^ I was just joking about the chandelier. Don't get all worked up. I just meant there isn't a need to do something beyond following the tenets of good urbanism. No need for archways ala Short North or Short Vine to announce your arrival into OTR. The architecture and built form is distinct enough from the rest of the city, that it does all the announcing that would be needed.
May 1, 20187 yr ^No one is getting worked up. I was just curious as to the analogy of Central Parkway and Playhouse Square which didn't make much sense. Seriously though, that gap is a clear divider between downtown and OTR.
May 1, 20187 yr The chandelier/gateway feature could go over Walnut or Vine or Main, in theory. That is where a gateway would go, not over Central. The analogy was used because it's a placemaking tool that I don't think is necessary here.
May 1, 20187 yr Yeah I got that. I don't think the arches in the Short North are a bad thing at all, they are part of what makes the neighborhood. The chandelier is newer, and again, not a fan, but it fits in with the theme of the theaters. OTR is more traditional where a placemaker outside of a historical marker would not be warranted.
May 1, 20187 yr I always hated those arches when I lived in Columbus. You shouldn't have to visually mark the neighborhood you're in, the neighborhood itself should be able to do that. I was annoyed by the same type of thing in Nashville as well where they had all these signs about "The Gluch" which is just another part of downtown. But I guess when all your different neighborhoods look the same you have to put up signs to tell them apart.
May 1, 20187 yr ^I thought those arches go back over a hundred years, don't they? Maybe the current ones aren't exact replications, but there's historic precedent for them, no? http://www.mainstreetpainesville.org/
May 1, 20187 yr ^I thought those arches go back over a hundred years, don't they? Maybe the current ones aren't exact replications, but there's historic precedent for them, no? They were installed around 2006 but they couldn't get the lights working for like a year. When I lived there in 2007 the lights weren't working and the issue was becoming a bit of an issue, except the Short North wasn't a big deal at the time. There are a pair of 1980's-era arches over Short Vine in Cincinnati that somehow survived the recent redo. https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1297517,-84.5095996,3a,75y,7.92h,108.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syPQyrZ9O8bvoMBVodzcNAQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
May 1, 20187 yr ^I thought those arches go back over a hundred years, don't they? Maybe the current ones aren't exact replications, but there's historic precedent for them, no? They do and yes, there is a historical precedent. Photo is too large but: http://www.shorpy.com/files/images/4a19388a.jpg Amywho, back to OTR... "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
May 1, 20187 yr ^I thought those arches go back over a hundred years, don't they? Maybe the current ones aren't exact replications, but there's historic precedent for them, no? They do and yes, there is a historical precedent. Photo is too large but: http://www.shorpy.com/files/images/4a19388a.jpg Amywho, back to OTR... Are those streetcar wires going over and through the arches? What the? I'm certain they go under, it's just the perspective.
May 1, 20187 yr Ah, you got me before I deleted the post. I looked at it more and see where the active wire goes under the foreground arch.
May 1, 20187 yr Well, the Main Street OTR business district applied for funding to install a gateway type structure at Main and Woodward. So there's that. It was brought up at the OTRCC meeting in April.
May 1, 20187 yr I have a feeling it was once a common way to light streets. There's an image of some from my hometown on the homepage of this website. http://www.hiddenmarietta.com/
May 1, 20187 yr https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/if-promowest-loses-bid-for-concert-venue-at-the-banks-it-may-partner-with-fc-cincinnati-in-west-end Sounds like promo West May build a concert venue in the WE alongside the fcc stadium, in conjunction with 3cdc. So no emery renovation?
May 2, 20187 yr Where would they put it? The ballet site? And if they did hopefully there would not be an fc game and a concert at the same time or that area would be a nightmare (although the increased pedestrian traffic would be good).
May 4, 20187 yr Owners of Senate announced on FB that they’re moving ahead with the new restaurant at the corner of Race and Liberty: https://m.facebook.com/senatepub/posts/10156260156148638 Did this get approval by the HCB? Last time it went before the Board (several months ago), I thought it was rejected due to (absurd) parking requirements. Based on the rendering I like how it looks and I like that they’ll have a high visibility patio on Liberty.
May 4, 20187 yr Owners of Senate announced on FB that theyre moving ahead with the new restaurant at the corner of Race and Liberty: https://m.facebook.com/senatepub/posts/10156260156148638 Did this get approval by the HCB? Last time it went before the Board (several months ago), I thought it was rejected due to (absurd) parking requirements. Based on the rendering I like how it looks and I like that theyll have a high visibility patio on Liberty. Facebook comments never disappoint in entertaining me.
May 4, 20187 yr Quite entertaining. Hopefully I can get there and take a high resolution panorama of the mural before it's destroyed. But let's not pretend that this is some Shepard Fairey masterpiece.
May 4, 20187 yr Disagree, can we please call for a new bigger and better Steve Urkel mural placed somewhere in OTR?
May 4, 20187 yr Hopefully I can get there and take a high resolution panorama of the mural before it's destroyed. Please do try to get a good panorama of it! This delightfully quirky mural needs to be documented for posterity's sake. I like the large Rothko-esque rectangles on the eastern side of the mural. Not sure if those were part of the artist's vision or just the result of painting over graffiti.
May 4, 20187 yr Better Bus Coalition figure Cam Hardy claims that his 10 year-old self is depicted in that mural. But nothing compares to the old Robocop on Vine or the "G's Only" mural at Findlay Market. I was actually threatened with a knife back in 2003 when I took the below photo. I brought the camera down from my eye and a guy was holding a knife at stomach level about three feet from me.
May 4, 20187 yr The April 9th HCB packet shows details on Dan Wright's Race/Liberty project. The latest submission revised their plan for the empty parcel (1536 Race) so it will NOT be an outdoor patio, but instead will be an entirely indoor space. I think that change was motivated by the complaints about potential noise at night: https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/april-9-2018-staff-report-and-attachments/ The March 12th HCB packets addresses the previous parking "problem" by having 3CDC commit to providing 8 spaces in the lot across Race St: https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/march-12-2018-staff-report-and-attachments/
May 4, 20187 yr The April 9th HCB packet shows details on Dan Wright's Race/Liberty project. The latest submission revised their plan for the empty parcel (1536 Race) so it will NOT be an outdoor patio, but instead will be an entirely indoor space. I think that change was motivated by the complaints about potential noise at night: https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/april-9-2018-staff-report-and-attachments/ The March 12th HCB packets addresses the previous parking "problem" by having 3CDC commit to providing 8 spaces in the lot across Race St: https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/march-12-2018-staff-report-and-attachments/ Very bad precedent to set. Cannot make every bar/restaurant have dedicated parking, reality does not work like that. It's not like all restaurants in CBD or in other NBDs all have specific spaces...if people want to go to a specific place they will figure it out. And this being mainly a bar many people will be taking rideshare or walking from other places nearby.
May 4, 20187 yr The April 9th HCB packet shows details on Dan Wright's Race/Liberty project. The latest submission revised their plan for the empty parcel (1536 Race) so it will NOT be an outdoor patio, but instead will be an entirely indoor space. I think that change was motivated by the complaints about potential noise at night: https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/april-9-2018-staff-report-and-attachments/ The March 12th HCB packets addresses the previous parking "problem" by having 3CDC commit to providing 8 spaces in the lot across Race St: https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/march-12-2018-staff-report-and-attachments/ Very bad precedent to set. Cannot make every bar/restaurant have dedicated parking, reality does not work like that. It's not like all restaurants in CBD or in other NBDs all have specific spaces...if people want to go to a specific place they will figure it out. And this being mainly a bar many people will be taking rideshare or walking from other places nearby. I agree that its not a great policy but the city has already been doing this for the new and renovated office projects like Streitman, 15th and Vine, and Empower's new building. “All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.” -Friedrich Nietzsche
May 4, 20187 yr Yes - but i think a 50,000 square foot office building is materially different than a small bar/restaurant.
May 4, 20187 yr It's totally backwards that we eliminated parking requirements within a certain distance of streetcar stops for residential but not for retail. The opposite actually makes more sense.
May 7, 20187 yr Sorry if this is old..Saw on 3cdc website they updated there project list to include the, "Behlen". Once home to the family-owned and -operated carriage company of Charles Behlen, the Behlen Building will yield prime office and commercial space in Over-the-Rhine. The historic structure will offer the raw industrial aesthetic that urban-minded companies desire, in what will soon be the epicenter of OTR. Located on the southeast corner of 15th and Vine streets, just across the street from 3CDC’s recently completed 15th & Vine office project, which is now home to Sacred Beast, it will be an excellent location for an office or commercial tenant. As well as a rending of the completed rennovations: https://www.3cdc.org/wp-content/blogs.dir/3/files/2018/04/Rosco_resized-600x0-c-default.jpg
May 7, 20187 yr Nice catch! You can see a sliver of the renovated Meiners Flats building on the left side of that rendering as well.
May 7, 20187 yr I’m still somewhat surprised the green building the right of Kroger is taking so long to rehab. Strange 3cdc is skipping over the cluster for the time being.
May 7, 20187 yr Wielert's (the green building) and the building immediately to the north will probably be incorporated into the larger redevelopment of the Kroger site, which is only in the very early planning stages from what I understand.
May 7, 20187 yr Awesome, they have The Meiners and Rosco up and also the Elm Industries up on their website now. In regards to that cluster of buildings, I think they will probably tackle that with the redevelopment of the Kroger building after the new one is completed. Just my guess on that, but maybe something structurally or they need to reinforce those buildings with a new structure, or they want to tie it all into one floor plate with whatever the new building is.
May 7, 20187 yr I have to imagine the vine st Kroger will close sometime in 2019..or is it 2020? Hopefully the infill will match the density as the Meiner building!
May 7, 20187 yr ^I'm not sure, they have completion of the new Kroger tower for September 2019, I guess it depends if Kroger will go to work right away on their new grocery?
May 8, 20187 yr Also, we can assume that there has been some attempt to purchase the land fronting Walnut so as to enable a huge development across the entire block. Circa-2013 this land was part of the Grammer's Place apartments, which have never broken ground. Getting across the entire block would enable construction of a huge parking garage with access points on both streets.
May 8, 20187 yr For some reason I thought I had read that 3CDC has purchased a lot of the buildings from Grammar's awhile back, or maybe I saw it on Hamilton County Auditor, but too lazy to look up. Edit: Looks like a bunch of different owners: 080-0001-0127-00 WDC LLC 1400 WALNUT ST 05-05-2015 $0 080-0001-0106-00 1401 WALNUT ST LLC 1401 WALNUT ST 08-20-2015 $475,000 080-0001-0105-00 OTR HOLDINGS INC 1405 WALNUT ST 06-24-2015 $0 080-0001-0126-00 BSG2 LLC 1406 WALNUT ST 05-09-2012 $140,000 080-0001-0125-00 WDC LLC 1408 WALNUT ST 03-05-2013 $285,000 080-0001-0124-00 URBAN SITES LLC 1410 WALNUT ST 06-08-1998 $0 080-0001-0094-90 WDC LLC 1411 WALNUT ST 04-07-2008 $460,000 080-0001-0123-00 BSG2 LLC 1412 WALNUT ST 12-08-2011 $80,000 080-0001-0184-00 BSG2 LLC 1414 WALNUT ST 04-12-2013 $197,500 080-0001-0091-90 WDC LLC 1415 WALNUT ST 04-07-2008 $460,000 080-0001-0122-00 BSG2 LLC 1416 WALNUT ST 04-12-2013 $197,500 080-0001-0121-00 BSG2 LLC 1420 WALNUT ST 05-09-2012 $140,000 080-0001-0090-00 1423 WALNUT STREET LOT LLC C/O CINCINNATI CENTER CITY DEVELOPMENT CORP 1423 WALNUT ST 07-14-2017 $0 080-0001-0119-00 WDC LLC 1426 WALNUT ST 09-06-2007 $500,000 080-0001-0231-00 9487 DRY FORK ROAD LLC 1429 WALNUT ST 02-18-2016 $0 080-0001-0117-00 WDC LLC 1430 WALNUT ST 09-06-2007 $500,000 080-0001-0081-00 BAUM WILLIAM H & WILLIAM 1431 WALNUT ST 06-23-1998 $0 080-0001-0077-00 BALLARD MATTIE 1433 WALNUT ST 04-28-2006 $30,000 080-0001-0116-00 WDC LLC 1434 WALNUT ST 09-06-2007 $500,000 080-0001-0076-00 BSG2 LLC 1435 WALNUT ST 10-01-2008 $450,000 080-0001-0115-00 WDC LLC 1436 WALNUT ST 09-06-2007 $500,000 080-0001-0190-00 WDC LLC 1436 WALNUT ST 09-06-2007 $500,000 080-0001-0058-00 ST FRANCIS-ST JOSEPH CATHOLIC WORKER HOUSE 1437 WALNUT ST 07-12-1996 $30,000 080-0001-0057-00 BSG2 LLC 1439 WALNUT ST 10-01-2008 $450,000 080-0001-0055-00 BSG2 LLC 1441 WALNUT ST 10-01-2008 $450,000 080-0001-0113-00 WDC LLC 1442 WALNUT ST 09-06-2007 $500,000 080-0001-0054-00 BSG2 LLC 1443 WALNUT ST 10-01-2008 $450,000 080-0001-0196-00 OTR HOLDINGS INC 1445 WALNUT ST 01-17-2012 $5,000 080-0001-0112-00 WDC LLC 1446 WALNUT ST 09-06-2007 $500,000 080-0001-0052-00 OTR HOLDINGS INC 1447 WALNUT ST 01-17-2012 $70,000 080-0001-0111-00 WDC LLC 1448 WALNUT ST 09-06-2007 $500,000 080-0001-0110-00 WDC LLC 1450 WALNUT ST 09-06-2007 $500,000 094-0007-0145-00 NIDAL INC 1600 WALNUT ST 05-29-2008 $250,000
May 8, 20187 yr For some reason I thought I had read that 3CDC has purchased a lot of the buildings from Grammar's awhile back, or maybe I saw it on Hamilton County Auditor, but too lazy to look up. Edit: Looks like a bunch of different owners: 080-0001-0127-00 WDC LLC 1400 WALNUT ST 05-05-2015 $0 080-0001-0106-00 1401 WALNUT ST LLC 1401 WALNUT ST 08-20-2015 $475,000 080-0001-0105-00 OTR HOLDINGS INC 1405 WALNUT ST 06-24-2015 $0 080-0001-0126-00 BSG2 LLC 1406 WALNUT ST 05-09-2012 $140,000 080-0001-0125-00 WDC LLC 1408 WALNUT ST 03-05-2013 $285,000 080-0001-0124-00 URBAN SITES LLC 1410 WALNUT ST 06-08-1998 $0 080-0001-0094-90 WDC LLC 1411 WALNUT ST 04-07-2008 $460,000 080-0001-0123-00 BSG2 LLC 1412 WALNUT ST 12-08-2011 $80,000 080-0001-0184-00 BSG2 LLC 1414 WALNUT ST 04-12-2013 $197,500 080-0001-0091-90 WDC LLC 1415 WALNUT ST 04-07-2008 $460,000 080-0001-0122-00 BSG2 LLC 1416 WALNUT ST 04-12-2013 $197,500 080-0001-0121-00 BSG2 LLC 1420 WALNUT ST 05-09-2012 $140,000 080-0001-0090-00 1423 WALNUT STREET LOT LLC C/O CINCINNATI CENTER CITY DEVELOPMENT CORP 1423 WALNUT ST 07-14-2017 $0 080-0001-0119-00 WDC LLC 1426 WALNUT ST 09-06-2007 $500,000 080-0001-0231-00 9487 DRY FORK ROAD LLC 1429 WALNUT ST 02-18-2016 $0 080-0001-0117-00 WDC LLC 1430 WALNUT ST 09-06-2007 $500,000 080-0001-0081-00 BAUM WILLIAM H & WILLIAM 1431 WALNUT ST 06-23-1998 $0 080-0001-0077-00 BALLARD MATTIE 1433 WALNUT ST 04-28-2006 $30,000 080-0001-0116-00 WDC LLC 1434 WALNUT ST 09-06-2007 $500,000 080-0001-0076-00 BSG2 LLC 1435 WALNUT ST 10-01-2008 $450,000 080-0001-0115-00 WDC LLC 1436 WALNUT ST 09-06-2007 $500,000 080-0001-0190-00 WDC LLC 1436 WALNUT ST 09-06-2007 $500,000 080-0001-0058-00 ST FRANCIS-ST JOSEPH CATHOLIC WORKER HOUSE 1437 WALNUT ST 07-12-1996 $30,000 080-0001-0057-00 BSG2 LLC 1439 WALNUT ST 10-01-2008 $450,000 080-0001-0055-00 BSG2 LLC 1441 WALNUT ST 10-01-2008 $450,000 080-0001-0113-00 WDC LLC 1442 WALNUT ST 09-06-2007 $500,000 080-0001-0054-00 BSG2 LLC 1443 WALNUT ST 10-01-2008 $450,000 080-0001-0196-00 OTR HOLDINGS INC 1445 WALNUT ST 01-17-2012 $5,000 080-0001-0112-00 WDC LLC 1446 WALNUT ST 09-06-2007 $500,000 080-0001-0052-00 OTR HOLDINGS INC 1447 WALNUT ST 01-17-2012 $70,000 080-0001-0111-00 WDC LLC 1448 WALNUT ST 09-06-2007 $500,000 080-0001-0110-00 WDC LLC 1450 WALNUT ST 09-06-2007 $500,000 094-0007-0145-00 NIDAL INC 1600 WALNUT ST 05-29-2008 $250,000 WDC LLC is Martin and Marilyn Wade, whom are currently getting divorced. I'm sure an offer has been made but until the assets are separated and the divorce finalized you probably won't see any movement on any of these properties.
May 8, 20187 yr How long is this divorce going to take? I remember hearing that they were getting divorced 5~ years ago, back when Grammer's was closed.
May 8, 20187 yr My views have evolved over the last few years and now I would be against the demolition of 1415 Walnut (the purple building) as part of any larger project here. My views on the keys to “good urbanism” have distilled to two main points 1. Building entrances that engage the sidewalk 2. Granularity - specifically fine granularity- is key. (1 and 2 are related but that’s for another post.) Historic buildings and districts, besides being pretty, have the hidden effect of maintaining fine granularity in an era where developers would rather consolidate whole blocks at a time. It’s the reason more pedestrians are drawn to OTR over the CBD, and there is more opportunity for small business, small developers, and entrepreneurs in OTR vs. the CBD- simply because the building spaces and real estate are of a scale they can take on. Keeping the building at 1415 maintains granularity at the site. When development happens at the site I hope it is split into several new buildings instead of one big structure. www.cincinnatiideas.com
May 8, 20187 yr Hopefully they can keep the front of the building like they did with the 15th and Vine office project. But keeping the entire building would prevent a garage form being built there and completely chop up that large empty space.
May 8, 20187 yr On all this, it seems that 3CDC does own a couple lots that could be used as drive in's to a garage, but I guess we would have to look up a CAGIS (sp?) map to see how much space those other lots take up if it's feasible to create a parking ramp behind the Vine Street buildings
May 8, 20187 yr On all this, it seems that 3CDC does own a couple lots that could be used as drive in's to a garage, but I guess we would have to look up a CAGIS (sp?) map to see how much space those other lots take up if it's feasible to create a parking ramp behind the Vine Street buildings It might be cost-effective to use the back part of the Kroger building (3-story warehouse) as a parking structure. That would keep the parking in the middle of the block, allowing the empty parcels around it to get built up (on Vine, 15th, and Walnut). The buildings on the empty parcels could include ramps as appropriate/necessary (e.g. from 15th St, the ramp would go the ground level parking, from Vine St the ramp would go to the second level, and from Walnut, the ramp would go to the third level).
May 8, 20187 yr taestell[/member] got any drone shots of the block in question? www.cincinnatiideas.com
May 8, 20187 yr Keeping the building at 1415 maintains granularity at the site. When development happens at the site I hope it is split into several new buildings instead of one big structure. Yeah there is an opportunity here to do one style of building to one side of this small building and another style on the other. And by that I mean styles that actually look solid unlike the plastic building where the 16-bit bar is.
May 8, 20187 yr taestell[/member] got any drone shots of the block in question? There's a bit visible in this shot: https://www.urbanohio.com/forum/index.php/topic,16431.msg863379.html#msg863379
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