I hope whatever it is preserves Grear alley. It’s a long, brick, great historic alley with some building entrances fronting it and a connection to the little pocket park & Pendleton businesses.

 

I’d actually like to see townhomes fronting the alley. Would be unique to Cincinnati if they did something like that & be like the screenshots of the narrow streets in Philadelphia that someone posted awhile back.

Does anyone know what's happening with these two buildings on the 1200 block of Walnut? There appears to be interior demolition work happening, but I don't remember anything being announced...

^St Mary's owns them.  I've seen nuns going in there. They must have plans for more housing for the religious like they did across the street

^St Mary's owns them.  I've seen nuns going in there. They must have plans for more housing for the religious like they did across the street

 

Correct. They had donation goals set on the their website to rehab those buildings for religious housing for nuns.

 

I just hope they do the right thing and sell the parking lots they own to a developer. They can easily earn a lot of money for those lots.

^St Mary's owns them.  I've seen nuns going in there. They must have plans for more housing for the religious like they did across the street

 

Right now they are just cleaning and stabilizing. That is the long term plan while they seek funding.

I’m sort of curious if we know who purchased those massive sycamore lots? I wonder if it would show up on the Hamilton County property auditor page?

 

I was under the impression that the the Levine law group owned those lots...so I’m curious if there were any property transfers done.

One lot was owned by Arnie Levine and Rick was running it. Sold to TRL Investments on 6/29/2018. I could probably figure out who that is.

 

The other is owned by my former boss Guy Hild as Trustee. The problem with the Hild property is you will never know who Guy is "trustee" for until someone signs a development mortgage. And, note that conveyance of the fee interest on these hugely appreciated properties is a thing of the past. It is trustee to trustee or sale of the LLC interests. I can explain it if anyone cares to learn about it.

I was expecting these lots to take a while to develop...perhaps the Ziegler park garage, along with the future Kroger parking garage by the court house allievated some of the parking demand in that area...

 

Hopefully the developer will do this lot justice. It’s easily the largest lot remaining in otr, and could probably house hundreds of residents. I’m personally hoping for a mix use of ground floor retail, office space, residential. I’m also hoping that this could perhaps allow for some new entertainment options like a Comedy club/boutique movie theater/etc. I’ve always felt like otr needed some Newport on the levee type of entertainment aside from, bars/clubs/restaurants.

It looks like TRL and 1131 Broadway LLC are still under the Levine umbrella (mailing addresses are 322 and 324 Reading Rd). So half the lot is owned by Guy or whoever he is the intermediary for. Unless these entities have formed a partnership of sorts only half the block will be redeveloped.

^Call me crazy, but I think that's a good thing if only half the block gets developed now. Means there won't just be one super block building like would absolutely be there. Means at minimum in the future there'd be two buildings on the block. Not exactly fine grained urbanism, but still better than Banks style donut buildings.

^Call me crazy, but I think that's a good thing if only half the block gets developed now. Means there won't just be one super block building like would absolutely be there. Means at minimum in the future there'd be two buildings on the block. Not exactly fine grained urbanism, but still better than Banks style donut buildings.

 

Agree. The footprint here is slightly bigger than 8th and Sycamore so there is plenty of room for probably 5-6 stories of mixed-use and maybe 2-3 stories of structured parking.

I bet a lot of this new demand came up becasue of all the success in Pendelton, they probably saw "Yep, everything that has happened in OTR can happen in Pendelton too so let's strike now".

 

Very awesome news.

 

Besides 4th and Race and some of the redevelopments that have been in the pipeline for awhile on the 4th street area, this was my next wish list area. Will be great to strike out another massive surface lot.

Regarding 1505 Republic, the HCB staff comments indicate that they want two of the five glass panels to be tinted, "to create a reference to punched openings". I'm not an architect... but that seems like a bad idea to me. I much prefer the original, all-clear glass design.

 

I am an architect and I agree. That won't achieve what they think it will. It'll just make an awkard striping of the glass and won't convince anyone it takes its inspiration from punched openings. The all glass look works well. It's modern and unoffensive. It is clean and simple. It compliments the neighboring buildings well.

Any idea who owns the Park Haus garage? Again, if this proposed mixed use development on the sycamore lots contains any parking structures I have to imagine the park haus garage days are over.

 

 

I thought the Parkhaus was owned by the county and is primarily used by county employees at the Alms & Doepke building, Courthouse, and County Administration Building. It doesn't seem like it ever was a popular place for visitors to the neighborhood to park for whatever reason.

I thought the Parkhaus was owned by the county and is primarily used by county employees at the Alms & Doepke building, Courthouse, and County Administration Building. It doesn't seem like it ever was a popular place for visitors to the neighborhood to park for whatever reason.

 

Sounds like it would be easier for 3cdc to purchase that building in that case and demolish/redevelop the land.

 

 

I don't understand...why do you want the Parkhaus garage demolished?

I don't understand...why do you want the Parkhaus garage demolished?

 

Because above ground parking garages sucks?  How is it not any different than Pogue Garage on 4th st?

 

If we can take a dedicated parking structure and turn into mixed use with ground floor retail and above ground residential and office units then we should.

Though conceptually I agree, I think that in this scenario and this context that it makes more sense to just let it be, at least until there are no more developable parcels left. It has a ground floor use (even if it's just Subway) and is generally unoffensive as far as garages go. It's a useful piece of infrastructure for the area and unless demand has pushed so far ahead as to require relatively new structures to be torn down, I really don't think it's worth putting much thought into that scenario.

Underground parking is preferable to above-ground garages, for sure, but I don't see how it makes sense to demolish an existing above-ground garage that is in pretty good shape. What made Pogue's Garage bad wasn't just the fact that it was an above-ground garage, it's that it was literally falling apart and was awful for pedestrians due to the sidewalk crossing under the vehicular ramps. I would much rather see a new development with no parking built in that area and all of the residents given parking passes in the Parkhaus garage, which seems to only be full during normal work hours and has plenty of extra capacity on evenings and weekends.

Underground parking is preferable to above-ground garages, for sure, but I don't see how it makes sense to demolish an existing above-ground garage that is in pretty good shape. What made Pogue's Garage bad wasn't just the fact that it was an above-ground garage, it's that it was literally falling apart and was awful for pedestrians due to the sidewalk crossing under the vehicular ramps. I would much rather see a new development with no parking built in that area and all of the residents given parking passes in the Parkhaus garage, which seems to only be full during normal work hours and has plenty of extra capacity on evenings and weekends.

 

the Parkhaus garage constantly has water coming out of it for no reason

^Call me crazy, but I think that's a good thing if only half the block gets developed now. Means there won't just be one super block building like would absolutely be there. Means at minimum in the future there'd be two buildings on the block. Not exactly fine grained urbanism, but still better than Banks style donut buildings.

 

Agree. The footprint here is slightly bigger than 8th and Sycamore so there is plenty of room for probably 5-6 stories of mixed-use and maybe 2-3 stories of structured parking.

 

I don’t think we should go that tall (if I’m reading your comment correctly- 7 to 9 stories total?) The east-west view of the church steeples across OTR is pretty iconic and the Bell Center is an exclamation point to that. A taller building on the pendleton lots would threaten that.

That water has something to do with an underground vault and it's being pumped onto the sidewalk (which I agree is very irritating).  The garage is only 20 years old though and is essentially in brand-new condition.  Yes it's owned by the county and is used for Job & Family Services, the courthouse, and some other surrounding offices.  It's also 100% full every single workday, but 99% empty every night.  They don't give good discounts for evening use, and overnight parking is very restricted because daytime users arrive very early.  It does also have ground floor retail on half of its Sycamore Street side (Subway and also a small office space that I've never seen used), plus some frontage on the Reading Road side as well.  It's really not bad in that respect. 

Any idea who owns the Park Haus garage? Again, if this proposed mixed use development on the sycamore lots contains any parking structures I have to imagine the park haus garage days are over.

 

 

The County owns that one.

That water has something to do with an underground vault and it's being pumped onto the sidewalk (which I agree is very irritating).  The garage is only 20 years old though and is essentially in brand-new condition.  Yes it's owned by the county and is used for Job & Family Services, the courthouse, and some other surrounding offices.  It's also 100% full every single workday, but 99% empty every night.  They don't give good discounts for evening use, and overnight parking is very restricted because daytime users arrive very early.  It does also have ground floor retail on half of its Sycamore Street side (Subway and also a small office space that I've never seen used), plus some frontage on the Reading Road side as well.  It's really not bad in that respect. 

 

The vaults are from the Walker Brewery and are still under the garage.

I agree that for the time being the Parkhaus garage serves a purpose, and is unoffensive compared to some of the other eyesore garages in the cbd.

 

My whole point was that with the massive lots, on top of the ugly tree house bar/otr live structure, on top of the parkhaus garage, much of sycamore street needs appropriate infill that can reconnect OTR and Pendelton into one cohesive fabric.

 

Granted, I'm sure that's still 10-15 years out until we can fully achieve that, but it will nice to see that border shrink with those lots being infilled with new mixed use to begin with.

^Call me crazy, but I think that's a good thing if only half the block gets developed now. Means there won't just be one super block building like would absolutely be there. Means at minimum in the future there'd be two buildings on the block. Not exactly fine grained urbanism, but still better than Banks style donut buildings.

 

Agree. The footprint here is slightly bigger than 8th and Sycamore so there is plenty of room for probably 5-6 stories of mixed-use and maybe 2-3 stories of structured parking.

 

I don’t think we should go that tall (if I’m reading your comment correctly- 7 to 9 stories total?) The east-west view of the church steeples across OTR is pretty iconic and the Bell Center is an exclamation point to that. A taller building on the pendleton lots would threaten that.

 

No. 5-6 tops. Mixed-use wrap around garage. Texas style.

The Parkhaus Garage will be there 20 years from now. Unchanged. The County would not even put renovation of that on an agenda until it is disintegrating.

This is question based from curiosity...but you see large cities constantly have outside investors/real estate developers from predominant countries like China/Israel/Russia, etc...obviously these outside investors and developers play a large role in shaping the growth and density of these cities.

 

My question, if OTR is poised to be amongst the top 5 traveled historic districts in America (which I eventually predict occurring once north of liberty is gentrified in 15-20 years), do we see all of this done by local investors leading the way? Or will foreign investors begin taking the lead for otr eventual phase 2?

Foreign investment is a large scale process. A 100 million dollar project is not a line item on an international real estate investment organization balance sheet. I get calls every week for one or more of the larger properties I am nominee for and never get an inquiry from a foreign investor. In fact, the largest property people think I own and therefore cold call me is about $5MM in value and I don't even get called by national companies. Big Ohio investors, CA now and then.

 

So I conclude that if someone is selling Kings Island or the Kenwood Towne Center, you might see a foreign investor. But, that's about it.

 

When the Jackson Brewery comes out of hiding in a few years, that could be the first really big OTR project, but until then, its only about the little guys.

This is question based from curiosity...but you see large cities constantly have outside investors/real estate developers from predominant countries like China/Israel/Russia, etc...obviously these outside investors and developers play a large role in shaping the growth and density of these cities.

 

My question, if OTR is poised to be amongst the top 5 traveled historic districts in America (which I eventually predict occurring once north of liberty is gentrified in 15-20 years), do we see all of this done by local investors leading the way? Or will foreign investors begin taking the lead for otr eventual phase 2?

 

 

As a person outside of real estate it doesn't seem the profits would be in an historic area or anywhere that puts limits on maximum returns. There wont be any Central Park West's happening in OTR so i doubt that type of money ever hits town. 

Out of curiosity, why would Epicurean Mercantile be applying for a new liquor license after they've already announced they're going out of business?

 

Permit, dated Sept. 6: http://city-egov.cincinnati-oh.gov/Webtop/ws/council/public/child/Blob/51248.pdf?rpp=-10&m=1&w=doc_no%3D%27201801344%27

 

Also, unrelated to that, looks like new townhomes are ready to go up 1508-1524 Pleasant Street. Permits applied for last Friday, though I don't remember seeing anything in any planning packet or HCB packet. 

Hopefully they are moving forward with the Counter as a stand alone concept and plan on keeping restaurant/bar in that area. I think their food was really good and they have a cool outdoor seating area.

This is question based from curiosity...but you see large cities constantly have outside investors/real estate developers from predominant countries like China/Israel/Russia, etc...obviously these outside investors and developers play a large role in shaping the growth and density of these cities.

 

My question, if OTR is poised to be amongst the top 5 traveled historic districts in America (which I eventually predict occurring once north of liberty is gentrified in 15-20 years), do we see all of this done by local investors leading the way? Or will foreign investors begin taking the lead for otr eventual phase 2?

 

 

As a person outside of real estate it doesn't seem the profits would be in an historic area or anywhere that puts limits on maximum returns. There wont be any Central Park West's happening in OTR so i doubt that type of money ever hits town. 

 

Foreign money doesn't bother with metros as small as the 3Cs. They don't even pay attention to what's going on in them.

This is question based from curiosity...but you see large cities constantly have outside investors/real estate developers from predominant countries like China/Israel/Russia, etc...obviously these outside investors and developers play a large role in shaping the growth and density of these cities.

 

My question, if OTR is poised to be amongst the top 5 traveled historic districts in America (which I eventually predict occurring once north of liberty is gentrified in 15-20 years), do we see all of this done by local investors leading the way? Or will foreign investors begin taking the lead for otr eventual phase 2?

 

 

As a person outside of real estate it doesn't seem the profits would be in an historic area or anywhere that puts limits on maximum returns. There wont be any Central Park West's happening in OTR so i doubt that type of money ever hits town. 

 

Foreign money doesn't bother with metros as small as the 3Cs. They don't even pay attention to what's going on in them.

 

Miami University has such a huge Chinese and International student population that I keep hoping at least a few either stay in the region or invest in it in some way. The amount of Lamborginis, Ferarris, Aston Martins etc being driven by Chinese students in little ol' Oxford Ohio is crazy. We don't need to woo some foreign investors who have never heard of us, we need to convince the "Crazy Rich Asians" who are already here to stay and invest.

Hopefully they are moving forward with the Counter as a stand alone concept and plan on keeping restaurant/bar in that area. I think their food was really good and they have a cool outdoor seating area.

I'm not sure who paid for the kitchen build out, but I'm sure they're going to find a new use for the kitchen. The outdoor patio area could be a great dining spot, but it was never fully taken advantage of by The Counter. The grocery store part of the EMC space was basically a white box with movable shelves and fridges... so it'll be easy to re-purpose the former grocery space for some other purpose, or multiple purposes since the building consists of four 20' wide storefronts.

Out of curiosity, why would Epicurean Mercantile be applying for a new liquor license after they've already announced they're going out of business?

 

Permit, dated Sept. 6: http://city-egov.cincinnati-oh.gov/Webtop/ws/council/public/child/Blob/51248.pdf?rpp=-10&m=1&w=doc_no%3D%27201801344%27

 

Also, unrelated to that, looks like new townhomes are ready to go up 1508-1524 Pleasant Street. Permits applied for last Friday, though I don't remember seeing anything in any planning packet or HCB packet.

 

It was in the HCB packet over a year ago. The design has already been approved by the board.

 

It will nice to eventually see Pleasant St become fully revitalized...I hope the idea to make Plesant St a woonerf still occurs. Would make a nice pedestrian stroll from Washington Park to Findley Market.

I don't see anything about Pleasant St in the 8/20 HCB packet. Can anyone provide a link?

I don't see anything about Pleasant St in the 8/20 HCB packet. Can anyone provide a link?

If you're talking about the townhomes that Pdrome513[/member] mentioned, back in December 2016 there were plans shown in the HCB packet:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lj3x0lqej3ywr2g/HCB%20PACKET%2012.19.16.pdf?dl=0

Thank you jwulsin[/member]. I was also wondering about the fate of the lone remaining historic building in this part of Pleasant, as it was not included in the current rehab and infill work at Pleasant and 15th, so it was good to see that it will be rehabbed into 6 condos along with the 5 new townhomes. Other than the Over the Rhine Community Housing warehouse across the street from the new townhomes, Pleasant will be pretty much fully redeveloped south of Liberty! Great news!

Rennen & Beecher Flats

 

 

 

 

by Chad McCann, on Flickr

The fenestration pattern on the corner building is puzzling. You have extra tall narrow windows on 14th and then these giant monstrosities on Race. What the hell? Maybe one of the architects can offer an explanation, but to me it just looks dumb.

It's denoting which side is the front in its most basic form. The thing is that that chunk of the building is trying to pass itself off as a separate building and it's much too narrow to do so. It is a massing that has no precedent in OTR really so it stands out which is probably what you're reading.

 

This whole block is a lost opportunity. These aren't bad buildings, but they're just so lackluster. None of the infill in this block is even remotely noteworthy or memorable. They're also not a large enough scale. The faux granular design is exhausting and is broken into too many tiny pieces to feel even slightly real or organic. Meh.

I think they were going to be a story or so higher but then something came up worrying about the parking. Would have been nice to get an extra story or two on there.

 

Oh well, onto the next one after these. Hopefully 3CDC's next block wide development goes a bit taller.

I think the west block is architecturally successful. It does not impose artificial granularity. The east block, as already mentioned, does the exact opposite very frustratingly. I don't know if people remember, but the corner of Race and 15th was supposed to be a ONE STORY BUILDING... ON THE STREETCAR LINE! Just really unbelievable. I'm happy to to see the extra two stories. The consistency makes this a really solid block. Height would be great, but I'm not nitpicking this one outside of the unsuccessful granularity.

According to buildingcincy twitter account, City Council passed a resolution supporting Messuraca Properties, LLC to receive Ohio Tax Credits for the rehab of 2010, 2012, 2014, 2016, 2022 and 2035 Vine Street

 

 

It could be 34 residential units in total and a minimum of one commercial space per building.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1185791,-84.5173297,3a,75y,42.58h,98.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBJH3hoookrJM2rX6mm72Jg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1196595,-84.5174426,3a,60y,298.05h,96.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srPDi7UQcrhGhAkt4h7TRyw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

 

No progress seems to have been made on these properties. In May 2017 (roughly a year after the City Council resolution), those properties were all sold to "Vine Street Project LLC", address at 724 Betula in N Avondale, which seems to be owned by Tim Harkavy of "Harkavy Properties" (not much info on the web about this company). Anybody know why Ryan Messer and Jimmy Musuraca decided to sell these properties instead of renovate them?

A vacant 50x100 lot at 88 Mulberry just sold for $93,500.  Unbelievably, this lot last sold in 2004 for $85,000.  So with property tax and opportunity cost the 2004-2018 owners lost big money.   

 

In other news, about 10 new houses going up between the various hillside streets.  Dorsey, Goethe, Seitz, Pueblo.   

Photos of the proposed development at 12th & Sycamore:

 

Which corner is this?