In a memo sent out today, 3cdc is trying to purchase the alabama fish bar building on race st in otr, and wants to own and redevelop the property

 

 

Wonder if they will also do something with the lot to the west of it.

In a memo sent out today, 3cdc is trying to purchase the alabama fish bar building on race st in otr, and wants to own and redevelop the property

 

That place is the best!!! Did the business close??

I am surprised 3cdc wants to renovate something north of Liberty. 

I really wish they weren't voting on both the residential parking permits for OTR and the removal of parking minimums at the same time.  I am afraid those two items will be lumped together.  Removal of parking minimums needs to happen regardless of what happens with residential parking permits.

In a memo sent out today, 3cdc is trying to purchase the alabama fish bar building on race st in otr, and wants to own and redevelop the property

 

That place is the best!!! Did the business close??

 

Alabama's is my favorite restaurant in OTR. I hope 3CDC doesn't try to pull a Smitty's with it.

What does that even mean? Can't tell if you're attempting to blame 3CDC for Smitty's moving or what.

Yeah, didn't Smitty's burn down their buildings due to their substandard wiring?  How was that 3CDC's doing?

Yeah, that's exactly why I'm confused. They caused a fire with their questionable upkeep and their second location that they have since moved from isn't a 3CDC building either. Not entirely sure where the blame being placed on 3CDC comes from.

Great news:

 

Alabama Fish Bar: Over-the-Rhine restaurant's building to be redeveloped. Can you still get your fish?

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2018/09/18/alabama-fish-bar-could-get-new-neighbors/1337062002/

 

Developers say they have no plans to uproot the fried fish hot-spot, known for its steamy thick-battered cod, whiting and ocean perch dinners served with white bread and fries for just under $10...

 

Representatives of the redevelopment group are slated to appear before Cincinnati City Council on Wednesday, seeking approval for a long-term lease on the empty top floors of Alabama's building at 1601 Race St., as well as the vacant building next door at 124 W. Liberty St.

 

Though, I love Alabama's but I'm not so sure I'd want to live upstairs. I think you'd end up smelling like fried fish all the time.

Vote on OTR plan, repeal of parking minimums expected today

 

The Cincinnati City Council is expected to vote Wednesday on two plans: One would repeal city regulations that require a certain amount of parking spaces for development in downtown and Over-the-Rhine, while the other would set aside a certain number of on-street spaces for OTR residents.

 

Council’s Zoning Committee, composed of council members Greg Landsman and Amy Murray and Vice Mayor Christopher Smitherman, voted on Tuesday to send both plans to the full council for a potential vote at 2 p.m. today.

 

The OTR Community Council continues to object to the plan to set aside 500 on-street spaces for neighborhood residents at $60 per year with an unlimited number of passes because the ordinance will allow the city manager to change those amounts without council approval. It also believes the plan has not received enough community input. Today, there are no on-street spaces in OTR set aside for residents. The city has residential parking districts in Clifton, Columbia Tusculum and Pendleton.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/09/19/vote-on-otr-plan-repeal-of-parking-minimums.html

I'm really happy they're staying, but yeah. I lived at 15th and Race and sometimes the wind would blow the smell over and for whatever reason the smell of fried fish is just not something my body enjoys. Thankfully it was usually covered by the smell of beer brewing which is a smell I quite like (from afar). Wouldn't want them to ever go anywhere though.

City Council eliminates parking minimums in 3 neighborhoods, passes OTR plan

 

Developers working in downtown, Over-the-Rhine, Pendleton and adjacent parts of the West End will no longer have to include parking as a part of their projects, the Cincinnati City Council decided in an 8-1 vote on Wednesday.

 

Council also voted unanimously to set aside 500 on-street spots in Over-the-Rhine for residents, an ordinance opposed by Mayor John Cranley.

 

The two ordinances have been under discussion for most of the summer, with developers and small businesses pushing for the parking minimum repeal because of a tightening urban core with less room for surface parking lots.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/09/19/city-council-eliminates-parking-minimums-in-3.html

The elimination of parking minimums is huge for OTR, Pendleton and downtown.  This obviously helps apartment and condo builders but it will also be a great help to restaurants/bars as well.

 

Do you think an existing restaurant or one that is currently under construction could add space and not have to build/lease more parking? Or since they started/existed before this new rule do they still have to abide by the previous parking minimums?  I remember reading about quite a few places that had to cut down their space because or parking requirements.  Specifically I remember Mikey's Late Night/Oddfellows and Dan Wright's new restaurant both had to downsize due to parking requirements. 

Starting October 20th or so, any new project, which would include additions or expansions, will not have to consider the parking regulations. So for most of these, I think the projects are baked from when HCB approved their variances but if they want to expand in the future they will be exempt.

 

I would have to think the regulatory staff will try to fight for the existing parking requirements right up to the moment this is enacted, they have been against this policy because the current policy allows them to leverage the requirements in exchange for concessions.

 

While this is a blow to NIMBY's in OTR, it's also a potential blow to the city's ability to stop potentially undesirable projects from moving forward.

 

What undesirable projects? I don't know, but that was a concern that I heard being raised during this latest push.

https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/september-24-2018-staff-report-and-attachments/

 

 

Latest HCB packet has been uploaded... looks like the former Boys and Girls Club at Liberty/Central (purchased by Fortus Group who is partnering with the elm and liberty project) is going to be demolished and replaced with a parking lot... I am wondering if this is to avoid building the parking garage part of the development?

 

Disappointing to see as that is a major corner and opportunity for some height and density.

Wow...I really hope that's denied. No parking lots should be allowed to be built anywhere in the core, let alone ones of that scale on prominent corners. That's horrible.

I find it hilarious that so many here talk about these projects as though they are some type of super race whose opinions are more important than those of the persons who actually own the land and pay for the development and live with the results. Kind of a nerd elitism.

Sorry but this is the shit that happens when Margy and her crew of OTRCC get involved. They piss off developers so much they find ways around doing what they want because of the unreasonable amount of demands. This parking lot is a big f*** you to the community for dragging out this process as long as they did with so many meetings and hearings. We are seeing the NIMBY crowd winning more and more and this is creating shitty projects from OTR to Oakley.

I find it hilarious that so many here talk about these projects as though they are some type of super race whose opinions are more important than those of the persons who actually own the land and pay for the development and live with the results. Kind of a nerd elitism.

Nobody here is claiming to be a "super race". This is a community forum for sharing ideas and opinions. If you don't want to read other people's opinions, you are certainly welcome to not read them!

Not to mention they seemingly killed the Liberty and Elm project.  The OTRCC is not a positive for the neighborhood. 

https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/september-24-2018-staff-report-and-attachments/

 

 

Latest HCB packet has been uploaded... looks like the former Boys and Girls Club at Liberty/Central (purchased by Fortus Group who is partnering with the elm and liberty project) is going to be demolished and replaced with a parking lot... I am wondering if this is to avoid building the parking garage part of the development?

 

Disappointing to see as that is a major corner and opportunity for some height and density.

 

I would speculate the parking lot is more a condition of getting financing for the development. If you look at the report, they are preparing to build the parking lot into a garage in a future phase. My guess is this:

 

1.) Demo the building for a temporary surface lot/staging area to secure financing for the approved plan.

2.) Phase 2 will be a structured garage as designated in the approved parking lot for Liberty and Elm, with a new mixed-use building fronting Central Parkway.

 

Does anybody have a copy of the latest site plan for the Liberty/Elm project?

I find it hilarious that so many here talk about these projects as though they are some type of super race whose opinions are more important than those of the persons who actually own the land and pay for the development and live with the results. Kind of a nerd elitism.

 

Hey guess what?  When buildings in the core are torn down and replaced with parking lots, it's the rest of us who end up subsidizing that property owner.  The streets, sidewalks, pipes, wires, lights, police, fire, schools, libraries...those don't go away when a building is demolished, but they still have to be operated and maintained.  The property owner however has their taxes reduced to a pittance.  So the burden of all that infrastructure and services falls on the rest of us to cover through our taxes and utility rates.  So yeah, we have every right to be upset when projects get scaled down, canceled, or turned into vacant lots (which parking lots are too).  Your self-righteousness is misplaced and ignorant.

Not to mention they seemingly killed the Liberty and Elm project.  The OTRCC is not a positive for the neighborhood. 

This quote from the CoA review for the proposed Lot seems to indicate otherwise: "The proposed parking lot will be built in association with the previously approved development at the northwest corner of Liberty Street and Elm Street. Under common ownership, the lot will likely initially serve as public parking until the parking lot is needed for the development. Upon completion of the building, the lot will serve the residents of the Liberty and Elm residences. Eventually, a parking garage is intended to serve the development at which point the subject property could be redeveloped to commercial or mixed-use."

^ Key phrases:  will likely, eventually, intended to, could be

I find it hilarious that so many here talk about these projects as though they are some type of super race whose opinions are more important than those of the persons who actually own the land and pay for the development and live with the results. Kind of a nerd elitism.

 

Huge surface lots in the urban core are well-documented negative assets. They starve streets of life, increase rainwater runoff, and as reduce property taxes collected as mentioned above. We have every right to criticize their creation.

I find it hilarious that so many here talk about these projects as though they are some type of super race whose opinions are more important than those of the persons who actually own the land and pay for the development and live with the results. Kind of a nerd elitism.

 

Huge surface lots in the urban core are well-documented negative assets. They starve streets of life, increase rainwater runoff, and as reduce property taxes collected as mentioned above. We have every right to criticize their creation.

 

We need to move to a stormwater charge like they have in Philly and throughout Maryland:

 

http://www.phillywatersheds.org/non-residential-stormwater-information

I find it hilarious that so many here talk about these projects as though they are some type of super race whose opinions are more important than those of the persons who actually own the land and pay for the development and live with the results. Kind of a nerd elitism.

 

Huge surface lots in the urban core are well-documented negative assets. They starve streets of life, increase rainwater runoff, and as reduce property taxes collected as mentioned above. We have every right to criticize their creation.

 

We need to move to a stormwater charge like they have in Philly and throughout Maryland:

 

http://www.phillywatersheds.org/non-residential-stormwater-information

 

And a land value tax instead of a property tax.

^ Key phrases:  will likely, eventually, intended to, could be

 

I'm not responding to your criticism of the building tear down. I was responding to the comment that the Liberty and Elm project was killed. See the first sentence with "will be" in it.

Some of you guys on here remind me of PTSD patients. Scars from the past, make some of you so untrusting about others intentions in an almost paranoia type of way..it's kind of scary, and it's very unique to this cincinnati section from what i've noticed. The columbus/cleveland sections on this forum are way more relaxed for whatever reason when discussing development (for the most part) lol.

 

Like jim uber said, it seems like this parking lot is a temporary lot, and will eventually be replaced with phase 2 of elm and liberty.

 

If the sycamore lots can be redeveloped, then I have faith that this won't be a long term surface lot situation. It also sounds like this is why elm and liberty was held up, so it's good news that this project can finally move forward once the boys and girls club building is demolished.

Proposing to demolish a building, even a non-historic one, to only replace it with a surface parking lot in OTR should 'scare' anyone. We just got rid of parking requirements in the neighborhood, and now we have a proposal for a frickin' surface lot a couple blocks from Findlay Market? Nonsense. If the developer doesn't have the chops to pull off a decent project, then they need to get out of the way, and let someone who's better equipped to develop the site do so. I would definitely imagine if a plan was floated to put a surface parking lot in the heart of the Short North, Columbusites (Columbusonians?) would be similarly pissed.

Proposing to demolish a building, even a non-historic one, to only replace it with a surface parking lot in OTR should 'scare' anyone. We just got rid of parking requirements in the neighborhood, and now we have a proposal for a frickin' surface lot a couple blocks from Findlay Market? Nonsense. If the developer doesn't have the chops to pull off a decent project, then they need to get out of the way, and let someone who's better equipped to develop the site do so. I would definitely imagine if a plan was floated to put a surface parking lot in the heart of the Short North, Columbusites (Columbusonians?) would be similarly pissed.

 

Columbians?

^^Its just another version of NIMBY. If you don't build something we elites like then someone else needs to take over your site.

Proposing to demolish a building, even a non-historic one, to only replace it with a surface parking lot in OTR should 'scare' anyone. We just got rid of parking requirements in the neighborhood, and now we have a proposal for a frickin' surface lot a couple blocks from Findlay Market? Nonsense. If the developer doesn't have the chops to pull off a decent project, then they need to get out of the way, and let someone who's better equipped to develop the site do so. I would definitely imagine if a plan was floated to put a surface parking lot in the heart of the Short North, Columbusites (Columbusonians?) would be similarly pissed.

 

I understand, but I also view OTR as a project that has another 20-25 years in the making before build out.

 

I still think that North of Liberty, aside from the random scattered rennovations is still mostly in shambles. I think the street diet will be a good starting point connecting the 2 neighborhoods, and I think that we are slowly beginning to see big developers like 3cdc creep onto north of liberty (the alabama fish bar building for instance).

 

That said, there are still stretches of south of liberty that still need attention (everything past 1500 vine, walnut, stretches of pendelton, the sycamore lots, main st business district still is dead aside from the initial few blocks where alladins/pins/lou vino/rosedale resides).

 

I'm not mad for a developer for being patient. OTR still has a long way to go (even if the progress since the gateway quarter project has been amazing to date).

If not liking a surface lot in an urban core makes one "elite" then pretty much everyone is elite. 

Some of you guys on here remind me of PTSD patients. Scars from the past, make some of you so untrusting about others intentions in an almost paranoia type of way..it's kind of scary, and it's very unique to this cincinnati section from what i've noticed. The columbus/cleveland sections on this forum are way more relaxed for whatever reason when discussing development (for the most part) lol.

 

Start here and read about how over the course of 13 years some of our most prolific forumers dreams were crushed into a fine powder and then fed to us in a soupy paste of nightmarish goop!  ;D ;D :(

 

Oh and this one is good too.

Model Group recently demolished the former Chatfield College building near Findlay Market for a "temporary" parking lot for their Market Square developments. How long until anything is built on that lot? How temporary is temporary?

Model Group recently demolished the former Chatfield College building near Findlay Market for a "temporary" parking lot for their Market Square developments. How long until anything is built on that lot? How temporary is temporary?

 

When housing supply doesn’t mean demand? There is a reason why south of liberty is seeing lot after lot redeveloped left and right...and there is a reason why north of liberty has had hardly no new infill construction to date.

 

Having a temporary parking lot where you can perhaps make revenue from Findlay market residents/rhinegeist customers is not a bad way to make temporary revenue until there is an actual demand for new mixed use infill in north of liberty.

 

Hopefully, elm and liberty will be a good start, as well as model group/urban sites, and 3cdc involvement....We all knew this was going to be a 20-25 year project. Hopefully enough of us are young enough to actually see north of liberty revitalized during that time span.

 

 

 

3CDC is funding infill south of Liberty. Most of it is economically unsound without their contribution. When they move north development will ensue.

^ I don't understand this. There is very significant development occurring right now (and has been) around Findlay market without 3CDC involvement. This will accelerate with or without them.

^^The Connector takes the role of 3CDC in adding an economically unreasonable expenditure into a potential development area and stimulating investment. Add the draw of a refreshed Findlay Market to the mix. Go a block and a half off of the Connector track and basically nada. I could also cite the effect of the Ziegler Park and Garage and Jack for the same principal as to the barrage of development east of Sycamore. 

 

These areas do not ignite spontaneously. It took 20 years after City Center Properties pioneering development on Main St. for that area to take off. Compare that to 1000-1600 Vine.

 

 

^ Yes. Believe me, I'm not negating the impact of 3CDC and I think I know and understand that as well as you do.

 

I'm just saying that their impact has occurred and that redevelopment of North of Liberty will continue, continuing outward from the Findlay market node, even if they chose not to invest significantly. I just came back from Findlay down pleasant street and it's clear that street will be 90% fully build out/rehabbed within a year.

 

I don't expect 3CDC to not invest north of liberty, however. I think their impact will help turn around the areas on Vine street by the park to the east of Findlay, over say a 5 year time frame whereas otherwise it might take 10.

 

^^ I assisted in the sale of 23 properties north of Liberty in the past year, mostly north and west of Findlay Market. I am sure you are right about Pleasant Street, but, again, 3CDC has their hand in that too.

 

What I think will interest people the most is when the area along McMicken is developed. The Apex Building may be a predicate depending on what they do with the upper floors after Northern Row is opened.

 

And, as I have said before, someday, not today, The Jackson Brewery will be the Crown Jewel.

 

Finally, for "get in on the ground floor action" E. Clifton, Peete, Hust, etc. is the place. I'm too old to care, but theat area will be really cool in a few years if something triggers development.

I'm still hoping that as OTR revitalizes, especially as it cross north of liberty we will begin to see more immigrants decide to rent in otr as well.

 

Can't tell you how many Indians/Asians/Muslims live in Sharonville/West Chester. There are literally parts of sharonville that have 2 indian grocery store, a few indian resturaunts, an asian grocery store, an asian bakery and an asian resturaunt all within the same strip mall.

 

The best part is that many of them are on visas and work for p and g, and none of them want to live downtown. Hopefully that will one day change, because it will be a missed opportunity if otr is nothing but overpriced resturaunts and bars.

I'm still hoping that as OTR revitalizes, especially as it cross north of liberty we will begin to see more immigrants decide to rent in otr as well.

 

Can't tell you how many Indians/Asians/Muslims live in Sharonville/West Chester. There are literally parts of sharonville that have 2 indian grocery store, a few indian resturaunts, an asian grocery store, an asian bakery and an asian resturaunt all within the same strip mall.

 

The best part is that many of them are on visas and work for p and g, and none of them want to live downtown. Hopefully that will one day change, because it will be a missed opportunity if otr is nothing but overpriced resturaunts and bars.

 

while I'd LOVE for there to be Indian/Asian grocery stores, bakeries, and restaurants in OTR (or a halal butcher!), it's rare for a critical mass of immigrants to establish themselves into a rapidly gentrifying neighborhood that's much more expensive. You see immigrants establishing themselves en masse in older outer suburbs like Sharonville because they're relatively cheap and have suburban school systems.

Latest planning commission has a request from Model Group to gate off Goose Alley, next to Findlay Playground. Goose Alley is wide enough for cars and there are already a few garages that open onto Goose Alley. I don't like gated alleys, but given the current state of Findlay Playground, I understand why Model is requesting this.

 

https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/planning/about-city-planning/city-planning-commission/sep-21-2018-packet/

It claims to be a 5 year lease. If that's the case, I have no objection to this. If it becomes a semi-permanent situation with continuous renewals then I would be against it.

Some of you guys on here remind me of PTSD patients. Scars from the past, make some of you so untrusting about others intentions in an almost paranoia type of way..it's kind of scary, and it's very unique to this cincinnati section from what i've noticed. The columbus/cleveland sections on this forum are way more relaxed for whatever reason when discussing development (for the most part) lol.

 

Years and years of Cincinnati shooting itself in the foot despite its "embarassment of riches" leads to this mentality.  Cincinnati's local culture is so bonkers compared to the rest of the country that surrounds it and things that are givens elsewhere are difficult endeavors in Cincinnati which lead to people who don't quite follow the norm being frustrated with everything to the point of being pretty darn distrustful.

Large building near Findlay Market will be demolished for parking lot

 

 

The former Boys & Girls Club at 1621 Logan Street in Over-the-Rhine will be demolished and become a parking lot.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/09/25/large-building-near-findlay-market-will-be.html

David Mann voted against eliminating OTR parking requirements because he thought that if parking wasn't mandated by the government, private developers wouldn't build it. A few days later he is already being proven wrong.