^Incidentaly, RESTOC also owns this rather prominent building on Race St.:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1101962,-84.5169289,3a,75y,81.23h,100.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssnMottTlnlPrxI_TQlI3Cw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

Per the auditor, they also own the vacant lot to the south (to the right in the above image).  Hyde Park Methodist Church owns the vacant lot at the corner. 

 

The building you see was purchased for $12,000 in 1992 and they were given the vacant lot for free.  They could sell the lot for $150,000 and the building for even more and provide housing to more people in another part of town (they could easily buy a 10-unit building with the proceeds). 

4 hours ago, edale said:

Also, what's up with this building? Prime location across from Washington Park, great views of Music Hall, the building next door sold a condo for over $1 million, yet this building remains boarded up. What gives?

Same as the church immediately to its south and the 36’ wide empty lot at 1330 Race... the parcels are owned by Hyde Park Community United Methodist (1345 Grace Ave, 45208). Would be curious if they are paying property taxes since they’re owned by a church. 

Edited March 21, 20196 yr by jwulsin

These non profits and churches should develop their empty lots and abandoned buildings if they actually cared for the poor/homeless.  If they can't afford to do it themselves they could easily sell the land/buildings to someone who would do it and mandate it be for affordable housing in the deal.  Instead they just allow drug deals to go down on the empty lots and god knows what to go on in the empty buildings.  Bunch of hypocrites.  

Does anyone know the status of the buildings (the former Mercy Housing portfolio) that were bought by 3CDC/Model Group/Brickstone Properties in 2017? Model Group since sold their Brickstone Properties division to a Boston-based nonprofit called POAH Communities. Many of the buildings they own on Main Street are currently boarded up.

And when is the city going to do something about the streetscape surrounding Washington Park on Elm, Race, and 12th? All three streets still have telephone poles with cobrahead lights.

15 hours ago, troeros said:

New 5 story infill project at 1505-1507 Vine St was presented in the latest HCB packet. Interestingly there was no rendering provided in the packet..Anyone know why that may be?

 

https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/march-25-2019-staff-report-and-attachments/

This infill project is part of a larger project, including the renovation of the buildings to its north (1511, 1513, and 1517 Vine) in partnership between Over-the-Rhine Community Housing and 3CDC. More details here: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/12/12/two-over-the-rhine-housing-projects-get-state-help.html

 

Not sure why the renderings weren't included in the HCB packet. 

 

40 minutes ago, taestell said:

Any when is the city going to do something about the streetscape surrounding Washington Park on Elm, Race, and 12th? All three streets still have telephone poles with cobrahead lights.

 

No idea.

 

Related to underground utilities, I reached out to Matthew Andrews at DOTE regarding the possibility of getting utilities buried for Liberty St if/when it gets torn up for the narrowing... and here was his response in December 2017 aiming for a Spring 2019 construction start (LOL).  I appreciated that he took the time to detail out, but I also found very saddening because it makes it seem like there is no system/mechanism in place for implementing underground utilities:

 

Quote

The Liberty Street Safety Improvement Project, Central Parkway to Mansfield Street, will begin construction documents for bidding purposes this December. The goal is to bid the project in the Fall of 2018 with a Spring 2019 construction start date. The bulk of the funding is from the remaining Casino TIF fund. Undergrounding the overhead utilities is a challenging project at best. Two recent undergrounding of utilities projects met a number of issues. The following concerns must be dealt with:

• Funding is required by both public sources (the City) and the affected property owners. All work on private property must be paid for by the property owner or a private source. This work includes hiring an electrician to reattach the electric to the residence or building. This may force the building owner to bring any old “grandfathered” electric up to present codes. This cost is typically unknown until the reattachment. Typical costs for a residence to hook up from an underground line is approximately $ 3,000. Businesses, especially those utilizing refrigeration and air conditioning – i.e., restaurants, can be upwards of $ 30,000 or more.
• Costs for the Liberty Street Safety Improvement Project can easily double or triple with the addition of undergrounding the overhead utilities. Additional funds will be required for construction in areas that were not going to be upgraded immediately (some areas on the north side of Liberty Street) and for Duke and all the other utilities to rerun their lines, multiple conduit and pullbox installations, etc.
• When undergrounding a corridor, Duke typically likes to upgrade their electric mode to a more efficient system (240 volts to a 207 volt three phase system). This system requires the upgrade of older appliances that range from stoves to hot water heaters to air conditioning. These are additional private costs for older buildings.
• The project will need 100 % approval of all property owners. The law does not allow for a utility to disconnect a customer for aesthetic purposes. Agreements by property owners to underground their systems and pay the private costs are not binding and have been rescinded in previous projects of this type. This has caused additional design and construction costs and a substandard project.
• Typical projects of this type take years of negotiating and coordinating with property owners, funding sources, the utilities (all of them – Duke, Spectrum, Bell, City lighting and traffic signals, etc).
• All the north / south lines on Elm, Race, Vine, etc will stay in place leaving that visual “clutter” in place. Only the lines along the north side of Liberty can be removed.
• Transformers that are set on top of utility poles need to be relocated to ground mounted pads. These typically need to be located outside the right-of-way for protection from vehicles. This requires a property owner to allow an area for permanent placement of the transformer, bollards and or fencing and sufficient space for maintenance.  This can be an impediment to future development.

DOTE has two recent Streetscape projects that included undergrounding of overhead utilities. One involved a business district with a few property hold-outs. A company headquartered in the business district had to pay the cost to underground these properties to assure the project was complete. The other Streetscape became an 8 year design process and still had some property owner hold-outs. This resulted in the addition of new poles and overhead lines to continue to power these buildings. Obviously the project was not that successful.  

 

While the Department of Transportation and Engineering is excited for the Liberty Street project and wish we can attempt the undergrounding of overhead utilities also, we do not believe that the project can locate the additional funds or include the design within the schedule of the current project. Thank you for your interest in the project. 

 

Right, burying utilities can be a long and complicated process as we have seen in recent years with Walnut and Short Vine. (Not sure if it was mentioned here, but the poles have finally been taken down on Walnut!)

 

Fortunately there are several places in OTR where it looks like all of the actual utilities have already been buried, and the telephone poles only exist for lighting and the electric lines that power that lighting:

• Elm Street, from 12th to Grant
• Race Street, from 12th and Liberty
• 12th Street, from Elm to Vine

So it seems like they have been planning ahead, and maybe they're just waiting for funding to become available for the construction of a new sidewalk and street lighting, allowing the poles to finally come down.

22 hours ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

Does anyone have any new information on the purposed projects one being the two one story building across from Washington Park being torn down and turned into an apartment building and the other being in 1518 Race street on the empty lot.

 

Last update was in Sept of 2017: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/09/27/steiner-s-washington-park-project-finally-gets-go.html

 

I know there were talks about how one of the property owners (for the one story building being demolished) for the printer shop is having major health issues, which is causing a delay in the timeline. That said, I'm not sure if that's been resolved yet. Also, the HCB gave an Approval for the design for this project and if no building permits are filed by this Summer (The 2 year condition of the HCB) than the approval for the design will expire..which I imagine means that this project will be dead....

Edited March 21, 20196 yr by troeros

On 3/20/2019 at 11:43 AM, troeros said:

 

Why aren't the owners penalized in that case for allowing there owned property to become a public nusinance?

From my experience it is several reasons. 

Firstly, the city is a bureaucracy and the employees only can do so much.  

Secondly the people who own buildings like this are very good at being hard to find and transferring the property right before the City catches up to them.

Thirdly, the City has a hard time serving summons and citations to people or corporations who are out of state

New mixed use low income housing. https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/03/25/new-mixed-use-apartment-project-coming-to-otr.html?iana=hpmvp_cinci_news_headline

52 new units is nice for those handful of blocks!

2 hours ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

New mixed use low income housing. https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/03/25/new-mixed-use-apartment-project-coming-to-otr.html?iana=hpmvp_cinci_news_headline

 

The northernmost of that short strip of buildings will not be part of this redevelopment.  It has been owned by "Joseph House" since 1998.  North of the so-called Joseph House is the former Empire Theater site, which the City seized from Leshawn Pettus-Brown in 2007. 

 

These two buildings still have old owners who quite obviously are refusing to sell:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/1527+Vine+St,+Cincinnati,+OH+45202/@39.1125928,-84.5158799,3a,75y,263.32h,106.01t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sUKCIoOeKTBB-Gbb9XtfuDg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DUKCIoOeKTBB-Gbb9XtfuDg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dsearch.TACTILE.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D86%26h%3D86%26yaw%3D257.48447%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x8841b3fc3c51774d:0x766cd02477f1d75!8m2!3d39.1125684!4d-84.5159773

 

 

 

 

19 hours ago, troeros said:

52 new units is nice for those handful of blocks!

 

The article only mentions 32 units, and I only counted 32, did I miss something? While I would definitely prefer 52, 32 units is still a decent amount of units for that small sliver of the block. I'm thoroughly surprised the Historic Conservation Board didn't try to create a scene. 

1 minute ago, Lucas_uLsac said:

 

The article only mentions 32 units, and I only counted 32, did I miss something? While I would definitely prefer 52, 32 units is still a decent amount of units for that small sliver of the block. I'm thoroughly surprised the Historic Conservation Board didn't try to create a scene. 

There’s an additional 20 units in the buildings to the right of The new building that they will ever renovating.

8 minutes ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

There’s an additional 20 units in the buildings to the right of The new building that they will ever renovating.

 Got it. The way it was worded, I assumed they were considering the renovated buildings next to the new one as the whole project. This is amazing density that OTR needs to continue with! I'm always trying to tell people that density doesn't mean high-rises. And in Mid-sized cities like Cincinnati, I'd rather see density and population added by making units smaller and reducing or eliminating parking in projects. Seems like Cincinnati has been on a roll lately in this regard. 

I think there must be some misunderstanding:

 

The new infill building at 1505-1507 Vine will be 12 Units

 

The Three standing buildings north of there, 1511-1517 Vine will be 20 Units.

 

Total of 32 Units in the project.

The correct number is 32. 12 in new building + 20 in existing buildings= 32. And 3cdc is involved so perhaps this is in the wrong thread.

Edited March 26, 20196 yr by thebillshark

Here's a summary of the units/building from the latest Historic Conservation Board packet, page 11: https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/march-25-2019-staff-report-and-attachments/

 

49 minutes ago, thebillshark said:

The correct number is 32. 12 in new building + 20 in existing buildings= 32. And 3cdc is involved so perhaps this is in the wrong thread.

 

3CDC owns at least one of the buildings, which is why they are "involved".  Restoc owns one building + the pair of vacant lots where the new building will go. 

 

If not for the Joseph House hold-out, the project could have conceivably stretched north to the Empire Theater lot.  Instead, it looks like Joseph House will continue by itself and 3CDC will attempt to acquire the buildings still in pre-3CDC hands north of the lot and combine them into a 20-30 unit project at some future date. 

Being relatively new to town, I am curious what people's opinions are on OTRCH as an organization. I live adjacent to one of their apartment buildings and there are frequent drug deals, loud music at 3AM, littering everywhere, etc. To me, this reflects poorly on the organization, granted I do have very limited experience with them. Obviously affordable housing is a good thing, but I hope their newer developments in more trafficked parts of OTR can avoid these kinds of issues...

30 minutes ago, Largue said:

Being relatively new to town, I am curious what people's opinions are on OTRCH as an organization. I live adjacent to one of their apartment buildings and there are frequent drug deals, loud music at 3AM, littering everywhere, etc. To me, this reflects poorly on the organization, granted I do have very limited experience with them. Obviously affordable housing is a good thing, but I hope their newer developments in more trafficked parts of OTR can avoid these kinds of issues...

 

This is pretty common for OTRCH.  To a lesser extent I have the same issues with Tender Mercies although they at least make some effort (albeit not nearly enough).  These non-profits don't make much of an effort to be good neighbors and lash out at people who point out their failings.  Unfortunately, you just have to keep calling the police enough to get them listed as a nuisance property before they'll address the issues.  It'll take a lot of effort and coordination with police to get them to clean up their act sadly.

28 minutes ago, Largue said:

Being relatively new to town, I am curious what people's opinions are on OTRCH as an organization. I live adjacent to one of their apartment buildings and there are frequent drug deals, loud music at 3AM, littering everywhere, etc. To me, this reflects poorly on the organization, granted I do have very limited experience with them. Obviously affordable housing is a good thing, but I hope their newer developments in more trafficked parts of OTR can avoid these kinds of issues...

 

Unfortunately this has very little to do with the otr community housing, and more to do with the generation of poverty that otrch hosts. Many of these people were ex convicts/ex gangbangers, grew up with an absent father and mom had 7 kids to get more social welfare benefits and was hardly involved. Obviously not the case for every individual, but working with underprivileged youths, it's a very common timeline of events. 

 

The reality is that it will be hard to police these folks. It's how they were raised and you can't really do much to stop that now. 

^any subsidized housing will have these issues.  The building next to me is owned by Model Mgt and the tenants play loud music and throw diapers out their windows.  I don't think you can blame OTRCH. 

 

 

Edited March 27, 20196 yr by Jimmy Skinner

I unwittingly bought a house next to a multifamily that is rented to a merry-go-round of people coming out of rehab.  Two different tenants (one of whom had barbed wire tattooed across his forehead) had frequent psychotic episodes.  One was taken out of the place by a police in full riot gear.  That same character came over a month or two earlier to apologize for throwing "stuff" on my roof.  I went up there and it was littered with cigarette lighters, silverware, and one of those springy door stop things. 

 

The landlord acts like he's a victim.  It's like -- dude -- just rent to college students like EVERYONE ELSE in Clifton Heights.  Instead of getting rent checks from the government, you get them from rich parents. 

13 minutes ago, Jimmy Skinner said:

I don't think you can blame OTRCH.

 

43 minutes ago, troeros said:

Unfortunately this has very little to do with the otr community housing

 

While I understand it is a bigger, systemic issue, I still believe that property owners and landlords are at least partially responsible for the actions that occur from their tenants on their property. 

9 minutes ago, Jimmy Skinner said:

^any subsidized housing will have these issues.  The building next to me is owned by Model Mgt and the tenants play loud music and throw diapers out their windows.  I don't think you can blame OTRCH. 

 

 

 

I read a study that stated urban areas with higher rates of poverty and a high stock of abandoned buildings (broken window theory) care less about there environment and thus why we see more litter on the sidewalks and the individuals act more careless.

 

With otr gentrifying and the streets becoming more clean and populated it makes me wonder why these individuals still feel like there environment is a trash bin even though otr is becoming beautiful again? Makes me wonder that many of these individuals are still part of the otr circa early 2000's and for them otr will forever be ingrained as a giant trash bin.  

I'm also pretty disappointed that nothing has happened yet with the properties that 3CDC and Brickstone Properties (now POAH) were going to redevelop. Multiple buildings they own on Main Street are still vacant and boarded up, creating dead spots on the street for questionable activity.

1 minute ago, troeros said:

wonder why these individuals still feel like there environment is a trash bin even though otr is becoming beautiful again?

 

https://www.citybeat.com/voices/kathy-y-wilson/article/13007696/black-trash

This is a recent article I stumbled upon dealing with this issue. A bit more racially charged than our current discussion, but relevant nonetheless. 

1 minute ago, Largue said:

 

 

While I understand it is a bigger, systemic issue, I still believe that property owners and landlords are at least partially responsible for the actions that occur from their tenants on their property. 

 

All I can say is to be vocal. Call the police when you see something, record if you can and send it news stations and then email to otr community housing a link with the video of there so called slum tenants they are housing and how you will go to every local newstation about the elicit activity they permit and how you will destroy there Goodwill and good reputation.

 

It's a harsh tactic but you won't believe how much fear can change an organization behavior.

19 minutes ago, taestell said:

I'm also pretty disappointed that nothing has happened yet with the properties that 3CDC and Brickstone Properties (now POAH) were going to redevelop. Multiple buildings they own on Main Street are still vacant and boarded up, creating dead spots on the street for questionable activity.

 

Sometimes I feel like the only one who cares about any development on main St is urban Sites... Thank God for them at least

52 minutes ago, Largue said:

 

 

While I understand it is a bigger, systemic issue, I still believe that property owners and landlords are at least partially responsible for the actions that occur from their tenants on their property. 

 

I agree.  Unfortunately, the dilemma is that many landlords are operating on razor-thin margins and quite literally can't afford to lose a tenant.  Not even for a month.  Plus, many landlords are intimidated when tenants threaten to pour concrete mix down the drain. 

 

If you're going to rent houses or buildings, you need to have a ton of cash in reserve so you can make repairs immediately and kick people out immediately.  You have to simply not care that someone caused $5,000+ in damage in spite.  You're going to make WAY more than that over time. 

 

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/03/27/thunderdome-group-takes-over-longtime-otr.html?iana=hpmvp_cinci_news_headline

 

Thunderdome group sweeps in and saves kaze from becoming the latest otr resturaunt victim. They will take over the business and evolve the menu/drink menu/patio. 

They could try keeping their bar open til normal hours. I remember going there several times at night to get drinks and food at the bar, only to be told they were closing at like 10PM on a weekend. It's a great, dark bar space, and that patio is awesome too- they just need to utilize them better. Hopefully the new ownership group will be better.

That area is also kind of strangely at the end of development on Vine Street. With all the new development coming online in the next two years (Kroger redevelopment) I would guess that they will get more business then too especially at the bar as people walk to new restaurants further north and wait for seating. Probably a really good move by Thunderdome Group.

Kaze has been treading water since Hideki left to open Kiki in College Hill.

 

Thunderdome buying Kaze is not a surprise but this will be their 6th restaurant in this three-block stretch of Vine Street.

it must be because of the parking

Er maybe it's all of the fickle "foodies" who just go to the new places, forcing "old" places to rebrand or close after 4 years. 

 

Why does anyone get in the restaurant business?  Nobody actually cares about the food, it's just what is new. 

25 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

Er maybe it's all of the fickle "foodies" who just go to the new places, forcing "old" places to rebrand or close after 4 years. 

 

Why does anyone get in the restaurant business?  Nobody actually cares about the food, it's just what is new. 

 

I would argue that familiarity is just as important as the hot brand new concept to hit the block. It's sort of the reason why chains like Maggianos/Cheesecake etc are still popular..people want consistency with the quality of there resturaunt as much as they want the hot new trending resturaunt. 

1 hour ago, IAGuy39 said:

That area is also kind of strangely at the end of development on Vine Street. With all the new development coming online in the next two years (Kroger redevelopment) I would guess that they will get more business then too especially at the bar as people walk to new restaurants further north and wait for seating. Probably a really good move by Thunderdome Group.

 

On weekends, Kaze is one of my go-to places as they usually have little-to-no wait. You can order anything from the food menu in the bar area (including the tables, which have table service) so that's usually what we do. I agree that Kaze and Che (another great restaurant that usually has little-to-no wait) suffer from being at the "northern edge of OTR" in the minds of many suburbanites who visit the neighborhood. It makes me wonder how Quan Hapa is doing as well.

7 minutes ago, taestell said:

 

On weekends, Kaze is one of my go-to places as they usually have little-to-no wait. You can order anything from the food menu in the bar area (including the tables, which have table service) so that's usually what we do. I agree that Kaze and Che (another great restaurant that usually has little-to-no wait) suffer from being at the "northern edge of OTR" in the minds of many suburbanites who visit the neighborhood. It makes me wonder how Quan Hapa is doing as well.

 

I think with Quan Hapa it's kind of at a corner where people turn and go to Washington Park where as Kaza is like kind of on the last line of redevelopment on that side of the block and no foot traffic traveling south, just my opinion.

20 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

I would argue that familiarity is just as important as the hot brand new concept to hit the block. It's sort of the reason why chains like Maggianos/Cheesecake etc are still popular..people want consistency with the quality of there resturaunt as much as they want the hot new trending resturaunt. 

 

I have worked in many restaurants in many roles.  Like 15+ years of working in restaurants.  The food is the least important factor in determining whether the place stays in business long-term. 

 

We have discussed this before on this site but rule #1 is a place NEEDS TO LOOK LIKE IT'S OPEN.   Is Scotty's open?  I don't know.  I've never seen the door open or close.  Is Kaze open?  Maybe.  Is Quan Happa open?  Yes.  The lights are on and I can see people eating.  No.  The lights are on but the crew is cleaning up.   

 

Put a sign on the sidewalk.  Prop the door open.  Let us know you're open and what you serve. 

 

 

16 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

I have worked in many restaurants in many roles.  Like 15+ years of working in restaurants.  The food is the least important factor in determining whether the place stays in business long-term. 

 

We have discussed this before on this site but rule #1 is a place NEEDS TO LOOK LIKE IT'S OPEN.   Is Scotty's open?  I don't know.  I've never seen the door open or close.  Is Kaze open?  Maybe.  Is Quan Happa open?  Yes.  The lights are on and I can see people eating.  No.  The lights are on but the crew is cleaning up.   

 

Put a sign on the sidewalk.  Prop the door open.  Let us know you're open and what you serve. 

 

 

 

To add to this, I like Kaze but I forget exists sometimes. When I'm thinking of places to eat it is the places with prominent sidewalk presence that pop into my mind. Kaze just kind of blends in. 

Kaze has a great patio and a great bar, but I agree about the hours needing to extend later. Some people are also turned off by Japanese because they think it's all sushi, while others come to Kaze expecting only a sushi place and don't find it. They need to be a little more clear on what their specialty is and focus on that. Having a little bit of everything is pretty un-Japanese, and I think their menu could use a little focus. That said I think they have some great food, and great cocktails and a great space, so I'm glad to see they aren't going away. 

Echoing what others have said but they definitely need to make better use of the bar and patio.  The bar is one of the cooler ones in OTR imo but they always treated it as just a part of the restaurant.  

Moved off-topic posts about poverty and SE Ohio into this thread:

 

 

 

So the ownership group of OTR Live/Tree House are opening their 3rd Club concept called "Copa OTR". It will be a night club/resturaunt in the day and be the first otr establishment to serve hookah. Should be announced relitavely soon. 

 

I'm happy that otr has found a niche with entertainment, and Cincinnati as a whole has become regarded as one of the better cities in the Midwest for great night life offerings.

 

That said, this will technically be OTR's 4th night club and south of liberty alone already has more than 40 bar establishments. 

 

At some point there will have to be a serious conversation on whether we want otr to be a functional family neighborhood, or if we want otr to be a mini Las Vegas. 

Do you know where they're planning on opening their new location?  With their bad history I really hope it doesn't open near us.

7 hours ago, troeros said:

So the ownership group of OTR Live/Tree House are opening their 3rd Club concept called "Copa OTR". It will be a night club/resturaunt in the day and be the first otr establishment to serve hookah. Should be announced relitavely soon. 

 

I'm happy that otr has found a niche with entertainment, and Cincinnati as a whole has become regarded as one of the better cities in the Midwest for great night life offerings.

 

That said, this will technically be OTR's 4th night club and south of liberty alone already has more than 40 bar establishments. 

 

At some point there will have to be a serious conversation on whether we want otr to be a functional family neighborhood, or if we want otr to be a mini Las Vegas. 

Lol or it can be both, just like it and Newport were to some degree in the distant past.

Edited April 4, 20196 yr by climberguy714

14 hours ago, bfwissel said:

Do you know where they're planning on opening their new location?  With their bad history I really hope it doesn't open near us.

Its the building right next to Tree House. Used to be VLT Acadamy. Signs are already up in the windows.