Generally you should spend no more than 1/3 of your income on housing expenses (mortgage, property tax, HOA fees). That is what is considered "affordable." There are mortgage calculators online where you can put in an income level and it'll tell you how much you can afford to spend on a home. According to this one from Zillow, a household with an income of $70,000/year (e.g. two people making $35,000 each) can afford a home around $289,000.

2 hours ago, troeros said:

 

How is that affordable?

 

If your making 20$ an hour (which is roughly 40-45k a year, maybe have a gf/wife who is making a similar amount with a child) that's not nearly enough to cover expenses for housing, bills, cars payments, health insurance, groceries, day care services etc.

 

50-60k combined salary is definitely middle class range and there are plenty of folks living in Loveland and deer Park who are able to thrive quite well. I honestly can't understand how they would afford otr 

 

I don't know if there are actual definitions out there, but two people making 50k combined seems like it wouldn't fall into "middle class."

Regardless, there are affordable options in OTR using the metric of no more than 1/3 of your income that taestall mentioned. It's a trendy neighborhood. The fact that there's anything available under $250k is abnormal as it is, let alone as cheap as $150k.

The studio I bought 5 years ago in OTR cost me $820/month for mortgage, taxes, and HOA. That would be affordable to someone making $30k a year. Which is not a lot.

2 hours ago, taestell said:

Generally you should spend no more than 1/3 of your income on housing expenses (mortgage, property tax, HOA fees). That is what is considered "affordable." There are mortgage calculators online where you can put in an income level and it'll tell you how much you can afford to spend on a home. According to this one from Zillow, a household with an income of $70,000/year (e.g. two people making $35,000 each) can afford a home around $289,000.

I'm guessing that's if you don't have any student loans, there is literally no way me and my wife could afford that and I consider us middle class. 

1 hour ago, climberguy714 said:

I'm guessing that's if you don't have any student loans, there is literally no way me and my wife could afford that and I consider us middle class. 

 

Yeah, student loans are without a doubt suppressing the housing market nationwide. It's absolutely the case that the already-expensive cities will get even more expensive if student loans are forgiven, so it'll largely be a wash for the budgets of young people. 

 

If you buy a house you can rent out a spare bedroom or two and largely offset your housing costs. That's not possible with a 1-bedroom condo, and most of the quote-unquote 2-bedroom condos in OTR aren't really 2-bedrooms.  Most of the 3CDC 2-bedrooms would be pretty tough to live in with a roommate long-term.  

 

It's not so common in Cincinnati, where housing is relatively cheap, but in the northeast singles living with married couples is somewhat common. 

 

 

 

10 hours ago, jmicha said:

 

I don't know if there are actual definitions out there, but two people making 50k combined seems like it wouldn't fall into "middle class."

 

The median household income in the US is $57,652. So a household making $50k is much closer to middle class than a household making $100k. I looked up our percentile rank one time on one of those online calculators and we were in like the 85th percentile. With student loans, it sure doesn't feel like the 85th percentile. I feel poor sometimes, but a lot of people where I grew up would say that we are rich. No one ever feels rich though, except maybe the ultra-wealthy.

The biggest thing hurting OTR real estate isn't that it's too expensive and unaffordable, it's that Cincinnati overall is still a dirt cheap place to live, and you can live in a nearby neighborhood and get significantly "more house" for the same amount of money. Picking out two listings from Zillow: would you pay $220,000 for a 778 sq ft, 1 bedroom/1 bathroom condo in OTR, or $190,000 for a 1,252 sq ft, 3 bedroom/2 bathroom home near the Pleasant Ridge business district? Personally, I would choose the first, because being as close as possible to the urban core is more important to me than having more space. But a lot of people are choosing the second, because they still would be in a walkable area where they can walk to a couple of interesting restaurants, bars, shops, etc., and just take a $7 Uber to OTR when they want to go to down to the big city. With more development happening in other NBDs around the city (Walnut Hills, Northside, College Hill, maybe Camp Washington) there are now way more options for people who want to live in an upcoming walkable neighborhood.

It's that in-between zone that's tough though.  Pleasant Ridge isn't in any way a "nearby neighborhood" to OTR, nor are Madisonville or College Hill.  They don't have anywhere near the same sort of urban "product" but even if they did, you're tripling or quadrupling your commute to downtown or OTR compared to Walnut Hills or Price Hill.  No it's not as bad as living in Mason or Loveland, but someone looking in the urban core isn't as likely to be tolerant of a 20-30 minute drive, which is how long it can take to get to outer neighborhoods during rush hour.  The inner neighborhoods are in a similar price position to OTR as well, in that you either spend a lot to get a little, or you spend a little but have to then do a full renovation.  It's one thing to be priced out of a core neighborhood and have to move one over (sort of like how Oakley is for those who can't quite afford Hyde Park), but being pushed to the literal edge of the city, if not the suburbs, because everything in between is either a total gut job or half a million dollars is a bummer. 

Honestly, it is a good thing that the "nearby" NBDs are hot as well.  OTR will always have solid demand, but since it isn't THE place for young families to live, it allows for prices that aren't ridiculous.  I'd rather our city have a fairly even spread of investment and interest, which is something a lot of cities don't see.  The positive in that is that an incredible place like OTR isn't completely locking out middle-class people, which is a huge problem in bigger cities in top neighborhoods.

 

Most other cities will have a hot downtown area, and one or two hot neighborhoods near to downtown, and the rest of their inner-ring suburbs look like a tornado ran through there.

Off the top of my head (West to East): Westwood, College Hill, Northside, Clifton, Pleasant Ridge, East WH, Obryonville, Hyde Park, Oakley, Mt Lookout, and Madisonville are all great options within Cincinnati.  There is less area being 'left behind' than being invested in, which itself is a huge win.

Edited August 7, 20195 yr by 10albersa

25 minutes ago, jjakucyk said:

It's that in-between zone that's tough though.  Pleasant Ridge isn't in any way a "nearby neighborhood" to OTR, nor are Madisonville or College Hill.  They don't have anywhere near the same sort of urban "product" but even if they did, you're tripling or quadrupling your commute to downtown or OTR compared to Walnut Hills or Price Hill.  No it's not as bad as living in Mason or Loveland, but someone looking in the urban core isn't as likely to be tolerant of a 20-30 minute drive, which is how long it can take to get to outer neighborhoods during rush hour.  The inner neighborhoods are in a similar price position to OTR as well, in that you either spend a lot to get a little, or you spend a little but have to then do a full renovation.  It's one thing to be priced out of a core neighborhood and have to move one over (sort of like how Oakley is for those who can't quite afford Hyde Park), but being pushed to the literal edge of the city, if not the suburbs, because everything in between is either a total gut job or half a million dollars is a bummer. 

 

If you work downtown, of course commuting from Pleasant Ridge is less convenient than commuting from OTR, and that is one reason why someone might pay more to live in OTR. But I also know quite a few people that live in Downtown or OTR and either work from home or do a reverse commute out to the suburbs every day (including myself and my girlfriend). For more and more people, the choice of where to live has very little to do with where they work, but where they want to spend time when they're not working. In our case, living in Pleasant Ridge would be more convenient (cutting my girlfriend's commute by probably 15 minutes each day) but we're willing to pay more/have less space/have a longer commute because we prefer living downtown.

Urban Sites is going to renovate 1225-1257 Jackson St. with 4,200 sq ft of commercial space and "33 dormitory-style units." I'm not sure exactly what "dormitory-style" means in terms of layout of kitchens/baths/etc.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/08/08/council-approves-incentives-for-otr-housing.html

 

The buildings are currently only 3% occupied, so it'll be good to get more residents and commercial space in that block. I'm curious if they plan to open up any of the brick wall along 13th St: https://www.google.com/maps/place/1257+Jackson+St/@39.1095549,-84.5144654,3a,90y,174.67h,98.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRt00QVEzQjarjRPiv5V1uQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m2!3m1!1s0x8841b3fd7ebf97b3:0x41acf61c96e155ae

 

 

6 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

Urban Sites is going to renovate 1225-1257 Jackson St. with 4,200 sq ft of commercial space and "33 dormitory-style units." I'm not sure exactly what "dormitory-style" means in terms of layout of kitchens/baths/etc.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/08/08/council-approves-incentives-for-otr-housing.html

 

The buildings are currently only 3% occupied, so it'll be good to get more residents and commercial space in that block. I'm curious if they plan to open up any of the brick wall along 13th St: https://www.google.com/maps/place/1257+Jackson+St/@39.1095549,-84.5144654,3a,90y,174.67h,98.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRt00QVEzQjarjRPiv5V1uQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m2!3m1!1s0x8841b3fd7ebf97b3:0x41acf61c96e155ae

 

 

 

Wasn't the article a while back stating that the plan is to add a ground floor cafe/restaurant and a rooftop bar terrace? 

9 hours ago, jwulsin said:

Urban Sites is going to renovate 1225-1257 Jackson St. with 4,200 sq ft of commercial space and "33 dormitory-style units." I'm not sure exactly what "dormitory-style" means in terms of layout of kitchens/baths/etc.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/08/08/council-approves-incentives-for-otr-housing.html

 

In the article, Councilwoman Tamaya Dennard specifically says that it'll be good for the Art Institute to have student housing next door, so I suspect that dormitory style means individual rooms with bathrooms, but communal kitchens and living rooms.

Taken 8/10. Middle photo is a house close to Findlay Market.

Edited August 10, 20195 yr by Ucgrad2015
Updated photo placement

Taken 8/10.

Renovation on Race st.

So if they ever build next to the Meiner bldg, and relocate the health center does that mean the new building can be 7 stories or is there a max height limit in the new guidelines? Seems that any lot next to a tall building would get a premium vs a lot next to lower buildings. Such a weird way to value property.

If anyone has strong opinions about the new infill guidelines, the AIA Cincinnati is having another meeting about them on Wednesday. It's free and you don't have to be a member. 

 

https://www.aiacincinnati.org/program/urban-design-salon-draft-over-the-rhine-historic-district-new-construction-guidelines-continued/

 

 

There are some new renderings of the pleasant Street infill by 3cdc... Besides the disappointing lack in density they are mainly single family Condos with a faux historic design with fake brick and cornices galore. 

12 minutes ago, troeros said:

There are some new renderings of the pleasant Street infill by 3cdc... Besides the disappointing lack in density they are mainly single family Condos with a faux historic design with fake brick and cornices galore. 

Do you have a link to the renderings?

2 minutes ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

Do you have a link to the renderings?

 

Just go to hcb Cincinnati website and select the latest date packet, scroll a bit and you'll find it.

25 minutes ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

Do you have a link to the renderings?

 

here you go.  Pleasant street renderings start on page 25.

 

22 minutes ago, troeros said:

Just go to hcb Cincinnati website and select the latest date packet, scroll a bit and you'll find it.

 

If people are going to reference the HCB packets on here, at the least provide a link and page number... Telling people to scroll through a 225 page document isn't helping anyone.

 

2 minutes ago, 10albersa said:

 

here you go.  Pleasant street renderings start on page 25.

 

 

If people are going to reference the HCB packets on here, at the least provide a link and page number... Telling people to scroll through a 225 page document isn't helping anyone.

 

 

My bad

27 minutes ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

Do you have a link to the renderings?

 

https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/august-19-2019-staff-report-and-attachments/

 

Take a look at 1725 Elm... who would rather have windows in their closet over windows in your bathroom? Seems like an easy switch.

Yeah I get sharing the thicker plumbing wall on the back to back restrooms, but it does seem weird on the other floors. That natural light will really help to select an outfit though!

 

I'm glad they are keeping the ghost Paramount Vodka sign on the side of the building. 

On page 45-46 of that HCB  report is the request from Model to demolish a 3 story building on Campbell Alley (1725 Elm Street, Rear).  The wall along the alley is sinking and needs underpinning, however the interior framing was structurally stabilized about 10 years ago and it was re-roofed at that time too.  this building should not be demolished. If the HCB allows this, they are just a rubber stamp.

Art Academy partners with Urban Sites on $8.3 million expansion

By Tom Demeropolis  – Senior Staff Reporter, Cincinnati Business Courier

Aug 14, 2019, 11:50am EDT Updated 53 minutes ago

 

Art Academy of Cincinnati has partnered with Urban Sites LLC to expand its Over-the-Rhine campus.

Art Academy and Urban Sites are renovating 1225-1257 Jackson St. to create 33 dormitory-style units for the college’s students. The units will be Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design certified, so they are eligible for a property tax break worth 60 percent of the taxes on the improvements made to the property. The project also includes two commercial spaces totaling 4,200 square feet for a total development cost of $8.3 million.

 

MORE

^They used a photo of the school itself, not the building that will be renovated.  Here is the strip that they discuss in the article:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1095321,-84.5142044,3a,75y,216.64h,111.65t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stSpcDzOdJGOFKLiMMLBrnA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

Also, I've been meaning to ask this for awhile, but does anyone know what is going on with this building?  It was partially rehabbed into 6 apartments back when Jim Tarbell owned it, but it appears that nothing has happened, except for the Rookwood store, since he sold it around 2011-2012:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1086597,-84.5140315,3a,75y,291.38h,111.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAmXOH2RhJ6ovyz-urmuRTw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

He also owned the windowless "warehouse" building next to it.  

^looks like new windows have gone into 1209 Jackson St... not sure what other work has been done. 

42 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

^looks like new windows have gone into 1209 Jackson St... not sure what other work has been done. 

 

I just searched and Jim Tarbell sold both buildings to a pair of LLCs under the auspices of...Martin Wade.  

 

So that explains why the Rookwood store opened there on Jackson -- Wade owned Rookwood Pottery, or at least a large share of it, along with that building.    

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/over-the-rhine/shootings-near-grant-park-leave-neighbors-afraid-for-their-children-calling-on-city-to-act

 

So what is the solution? Most of OTR shooting this year have happened at this park. It's clear that this is ground zero.

 

Findley Playground is closed because of crime...is it time to do the same for Grant Park? 

 

It's just sad that neighborhood residents feel the urge to stay hidden inside or move our of otr completely...this just gives me so many circa 2004 OTR vibes even with all the positive momentum that has happened in the past decade.

speaking of that...has there been any movement to actually do anything to findlay playground?

If you close Grant Park the shootings will happen around Hanna Playground instead. This isn't solving the problem. 

9 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

If you close Grant Park the shootings will happen around Hanna Playground instead. This isn't solving the problem. 

 

So what's the solution? I imagine policing that area more won't be the solution either....I just don't understand why this area has allowed to become so lawless. Many of the residents say these are outsiders that are causing the violence but why are they making this their new home?

^If we knew an easy solution, this wouldn't be a problem.

18 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

So what's the solution? I imagine policing that area more won't be the solution either....I just don't understand why this area has allowed to become so lawless. Many of the residents say these are outsiders that are causing the violence but why are they making this their new home?

You’re coming at it like the shooters pick the places to shoot up. They don’t, they pick the victims, and the victims are where they are. Now that OTR development has hemmed these folks into basically one remaining area, it’s just natural that that’s where violence is. 

6 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

^If we knew an easy solution, this wouldn't be a problem.

 

I would argue that if you take someone else's life through an act of violence then it should be an automatic sentencing of life in prison/death penalty. Eye for an eye. 

 

Unfortunately, many criminals who commit murder on the streets know that if they are caught it would equate to a sentence of 15 years of even less. 

37 minutes ago, seaswan said:

speaking of that...has there been any movement to actually do anything to findlay playground?

 

No.  10 months of inaction at this point.  

14 minutes ago, troeros said:

Unfortunately, many criminals who commit murder on the streets know that if they are caught it would equate to a sentence of 15 years of even less. 

 

While true for some, I think a lot of these murders are spur of the moment things where they aren't doing a cost/benefit analysis in their head.  Something triggers them and they react.

 

We also can't keep closing parks due to violence, the best way to keep criminal activity down is to have feet on the street, and with less destinations to walk to north of liberty, you invite more crime.  The best solution for now would to be to give those 2 parks the Ziegler treatment.

Edited August 21, 20195 yr by 10albersa

20 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

I would argue that if you take someone else's life through an act of violence then it should be an automatic sentencing of life in prison/death penalty. Eye for an eye. 

 

Unfortunately, many criminals who commit murder on the streets know that if they are caught it would equate to a sentence of 15 years of even less. 

Very few people expect to get caught. You commit murder either through a moment of intense passion where you don't think about the consequences, or you think you will get away with it. Studies have repeatedly shown that harsher penalties have a diminishing effect. People don't plan their finances 2 months ahead of time, they aren't conceptualizing the difference between a 30 year sentence and life sentence or death penalty.

1 hour ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

No.  10 months of inaction at this point.  

 

Not true at all. Quite a few people working in the resource marshaling & planning stages on this one. I'm sure there will be more to come soon and all the folks in this forum will be great people to have your ideas and efforts involved!

 

I renovated and live in a house a block from Grant Park and am part of a partnership that owns a bunch of properties around it so I'm very invested and active in the direction we're going up this way. We've been working directly with the City and CPD at the highest levels during the recent crime spike but as other have mentioned, there are no easy or quick answers. We all know most of these issues get much better for everyone when abandoned properties get developed, new businesses open, and there is more activity around. All that is in process by us and others but just takes time. The area around Grant Park will look much different in 12-24 months, just as lots of areas just like it did all over OTR this past decade.

 

Thought this was interesting, and haven't seen this discussed before...Road improvement proposal plan for Liberty Hill. 

 

Not sure if it belongs in this thread but I don't think there is a current dedicated topic for liberty Hill yet. 

Where did it come from?  I just havent seen anything official about it 

19 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

 

 

...or they could just rip out the Liberty St. extension, reconnect Broadway to Broadway et al., and sell off the lots for $100k apiece.  

Part of the problem is that OTR has too many parks, in general - but the big concern is that many are in sparsely populated parts of the neighborhood with few businesses and permanent residents, which means fewer eyes on the street. This ultimately induces, or at least enables crime. The city should close Grant and Hanna, sell the land, and use the proceeds to turn Findlay Playground into an attractive, accessible, inviting, and safe public space. It's 300 feet from Grant and around 1000 feet from Hanna, there aren't a lot of reasons to maintain all three, particularly when parks and/or park improvements are needed in other neighborhoods. Not to mention, the area in question is a 10 minute walk away from Washington and Ziegler Parks, two of the nicest parks in the city, and a short streetcar ride away from the world class Smale park.

 

22 minutes ago, Ram23 said:

Part of the problem is that OTR has too many parks, in general - but the big concern is that many are in sparsely populated parts of the neighborhood with few businesses and permanent residents, which means fewer eyes on the street. This ultimately induces, or at least enables crime. The city should close Grant and Hanna, sell the land, and use the proceeds to turn Findlay Playground into an attractive, accessible, inviting, and safe public space. It's 300 feet from Grant and around 1000 feet from Hanna, there aren't a lot of reasons to maintain all three, particularly when parks and/or park improvements are needed in other neighborhoods. Not to mention, the area in question is a 10 minute walk away from Washington and Ziegler Parks, two of the nicest parks in the city, and a short streetcar ride away from the world class Smale park.

 

 

I remember when Ziegler park was a mess and there would be constant drug dealing and just general shadiness gong on there. It wasn't far from the main St business district either. 

 

I think the problem are the residents. Not all of them, just the handful that still commit to a life of drug dealing/crime/violence. The few that have no career prospects other than maintaining their "Street Cred"

 

The article states the women saying it's outsiders causing the issues...but surely they are being invited in by some of the bad apple residents. Flies aren't simply attracted to thin air.

 

We argue back and forth about the weight of gentrification, poverty, housing low income residents..The reality is that poverty is an output of violence. 

 

When you are poor, like REALLY poor, you don't think about tomorrow and think solely about today. 

 

I watched a great documentary about a neighborhood in a big city gentrifying..one of the long time residents who was interviewed said that being poor is like having terminal cancer. You know your dying and are going to die, so who cares about what tomorrow brings. He stated he robbed, stole, and didn't blink twice because he was dying with no vision of a tomorrow. 

 

Reality is that this won't ever be fixed. There will never be a Utopia where poor people and rich people can live side by side and live in Harmony. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

20 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

I remember when Ziegler park was a mess and there would be constant drug dealing and just general shadiness gong on there. It wasn't far from the main St business district either. 

 

I think the problem are the residents. Not all of them, just the handful that still commit to a life of drug dealing/crime/violence. The few that have no career prospects other than maintaining their "Street Cred"

 

The article states the women saying it's outsiders causing the issues...but surely they are being invited in by some of the bad apple residents. Flies aren't simply attracted to thin air.

 

We argue back and forth about the weight of gentrification, poverty, housing low income residents..The reality is that poverty is an output of violence. 

 

When you are poor, like REALLY poor, you don't think about tomorrow and think solely about today. 

 

I watched a great documentary about a neighborhood in a big city gentrifying..one of the long time residents who was interviewed said that being poor is like having terminal cancer. You know your dying and are going to die, so who cares about what tomorrow brings. He stated he robbed, stole, and didn't blink twice because he was dying with no vision of a tomorrow. 

 

Reality is that this won't ever be fixed. There will never be a Utopia where poor people and rich people can live side by side and live in Harmony. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you know what documentary it was? I’d like to see it. 

3 hours ago, troeros said:

 

Thought this was interesting, and haven't seen this discussed before...Road improvement proposal plan for Liberty Hill. 

 

Not sure if it belongs in this thread but I don't think there is a current dedicated topic for liberty Hill yet. 

 

This was requested by Mt. Auburn over the summer as part of the community outreach for the revised Liberty Street Road Diet Plan. The ask was for a dedicated and signaled pedestrian crossing to replace the signed only one, which frankly everyone ignores since Liberty Street is a freeway at that point. To do that safely, DOTE has suggested some reconfiguring, which would be an improvement as the Liberty Hill/Liberty Street transition/on ramp is a safety nightmare.

2 hours ago, Ram23 said:

Part of the problem is that OTR has too many parks, in general - but the big concern is that many are in sparsely populated parts of the neighborhood with few businesses and permanent residents, which means fewer eyes on the street. This ultimately induces, or at least enables crime. The city should close Grant and Hanna, sell the land, and use the proceeds to turn Findlay Playground into an attractive, accessible, inviting, and safe public space. It's 300 feet from Grant and around 1000 feet from Hanna, there aren't a lot of reasons to maintain all three, particularly when parks and/or park improvements are needed in other neighborhoods. Not to mention, the area in question is a 10 minute walk away from Washington and Ziegler Parks, two of the nicest parks in the city, and a short streetcar ride away from the world class Smale park.

 

We do not have "too many parks" in Over-the-Rhine, we just haven't had the density to utilize them for decades. Both provide more than just playground equipment, but give relief from a dense built environment, greenspace, and usable public space that are benefits for everyone. While capital improvements would be nice in Grant and Hanna parks, the easiest way to make them "attractive, accessible, inviting, and safe public space" is to repopulate the neighborhood with a broad mix of residents.

43 minutes ago, mcmicken said:

This was requested by Mt. Auburn over the summer as part of the community outreach for the revised Liberty Street Road Diet Plan. The ask was for a dedicated and signaled pedestrian crossing to replace the signed only one, which frankly everyone ignores since Liberty Street is a freeway at that point. To do that safely, DOTE has suggested some reconfiguring, which would be an improvement as the Liberty Hill/Liberty Street transition/on ramp is a safety nightmare.

 

I think this would be very good because it would cut the length of the "Liberty Street Freeway" roughly in half. Currently, there is a stretch of about 2000 feet between Reading Road and Sycamore Street with no stoplights, which allows drivers to get up to a very unsafe speed before hitting the section of Liberty Street that cuts right through the heart of OTR. If a new stoplight were added at Liberty Hill, drivers coming from Reading or I-471 would travel about 1000 feet before hitting this new stoplight, and then they would only have about another 850 ft before getting to the Sycamore Street stoplight. So it should really cut down on the number of people behaving like idiots and driving 60 MPH down this street.

4 hours ago, Ram23 said:

Part of the problem is that OTR has too many parks, in general - but the big concern is that many are in sparsely populated parts of the neighborhood with few businesses and permanent residents, which means fewer eyes on the street. This ultimately induces, or at least enables crime. The city should close Grant and Hanna, sell the land, and use the proceeds to turn Findlay Playground into an attractive, accessible, inviting, and safe public space. It's 300 feet from Grant and around 1000 feet from Hanna, there aren't a lot of reasons to maintain all three, particularly when parks and/or park improvements are needed in other neighborhoods. Not to mention, the area in question is a 10 minute walk away from Washington and Ziegler Parks, two of the nicest parks in the city, and a short streetcar ride away from the world class Smale park.

 

 

I agree.  A lot of money was just spent on the lawn above the Ziegler Park garage on Sycamore, and I don't see more or less going on in that space that occurred before. 

 

I think Grant Park is the most egregious offender.  It is much, much larger than it appears while driving by.  It measures 375x120, sans its irregular angle along Walnut St.  That's almost as big as the footprint of the 260-unit 4th & Race apartment project, which is 400x160.  The 120-foot width of Grant Park enables an underground parking garage comprised of standard-sized sloping 60-foot decks.  A 3-level 120x370 garage = 300 parking spaces, so plenty of spaces for a large apartment building + surrounding buildings, new and old.  A parking garage in that area would enable people to build on small vacant lots with no provision for off-street parking.