It’s been said before and needs to be said again and again. The only way downtown and OTR become truly vibrant with critical mass is through transit. If you don’t have that you won’t get the political capital to do away with parking requirements, you won’t get many banks willing to lend against parking-free projects and you won’t get the population willing to get rid of their car. I’m amazed how many folks I know from

Ohio who owned a car and then moved to the coasts and got rid of said car bc they could, they wanted to live in a central area and bc it was more of a hassle to have one there. The same people making a different decision in a different location - it’s only possible with transit. 

1 minute ago, atlas said:

It’s been said before and needs to be said again and again. The only way downtown and OTR become truly vibrant with critical mass is through transit. If you don’t have that you won’t get the political capital to do away with parking requirements, you won’t get many banks willing to lend against parking-free projects and you won’t get the population willing to get rid of their car. I’m amazed how many folks I know from

Ohio who owned a car and then moved to the coasts and got rid of said car bc they could, they wanted to live in a central area and bc it was more of a hassle to have one there. The same people making a different decision in a different location - it’s only possible with transit. 

 

To be fair, we are lucky to have a downtown that's fairly compact. Even the street car, while basic, get's you to the downtown grocery store, jobs in the cbd, banks, restaurants, bars, etc.

 

If people worked downtown, and truly wanted to be car free, then downtown has enough public transit options that make it possible. Plus since it's so compact, walking around downtown isn't really a pain either.  

?

Edited November 15, 20195 yr by atlas

6 minutes ago, atlas said:

It’s been said before and needs to be said again and again. The only way downtown and OTR become truly vibrant with critical mass is through transit. If you don’t have that you won’t get the political capital to do away with parking requirements, you won’t get many banks willing to lend against parking-free projects and you won’t get the population willing to get rid of their car. I’m amazed how many folks I know from Ohio who owned a car and then moved to the coasts and got rid of said car bc they could, they wanted to live in a central area and bc it was more of a hassle to have one there. The same people making a different decision in a different location - it’s only possible with transit. 

 

This quote encapsulates the most important issue relating to the growth and future potential of Cincinnati. 

 

I spent all of yesterday at an event where Source Cincinnati presented progress of the city and region across the country. Afterwards we talked about talent attention and attraction. The business class knows that something needs to be done but because they are not experts in the field they may support "solutions" that have already proven failures in other markets. We need frequent and convenient transit based on real-world action, not an app. We need better than bus modes (this includes BRT). We need better stops/stations, more bus-only lanes (painted!!). 

 

Without good and affordable transportation alternatives connecting neighborhoods we are at best limited to creating walkable pockets and drive-to urbanism. Better mass transit is what will differentiate the success and failure of cities in the 21st century.

^ We also need to get rid of all the one way streets. There appears to be some progress on that around Court Street but all the numbered streets from 2nd up to 9th need to go back to 2 way instead of being highways. We also need to allow restaurant bump outs. 

The proposal to create a Special Improvement District covering OTR is moving forward. Two public meetings will be held, both at Memorial Hall, to share the plan and gather community feedback. They will be held on November 19 at 6 p.m. and November 26 at 4 p.m.

what is a special improvement district?

12 minutes ago, taestell said:

The proposal to create a Special Improvement District covering OTR is moving forward. Two public meetings will be held, both at Memorial Hall, to share the plan and gather community feedback. They will be held on November 19 at 6 p.m. and November 26 at 4 p.m.

 

Do you know the boundaries of the proposed SID? I believe this was originally discussed last year for South of Liberty, but can't remember exactly. Basically for the 3CDC employees to clean up the sidewalks, right?

14 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

 

Do you know the boundaries of the proposed SID? I believe this was originally discussed last year for South of Liberty, but can't remember exactly. Basically for the 3CDC employees to clean up the sidewalks, right?

 

The map i just looked at seems to state south of liberty initially and then north of liberty and Pendelton for future phases. 

48 minutes ago, seaswan said:

what is a special improvement district?

 

It is a set area where the owners agree to additional taxes to fund certain activities.  Things like security, cleaning, etc. or bricks and mortar project funds.  Downtown Cincinnati, Inc. is funded by the downtown SID.

Info on the upcoming SID events:

http://business.otrchamber.com/events/details/otr-special-improvement-district-public-forum-3568

 

2 hours ago, d_burnham said:

 

I'm sorry I have to disagree. The bulk of money being spent in OTR is by people outside of Downtown and OTR.  Washington Park alone gets over 3 million visitors a year. One of the reasons OTR is so vibrant is because it has become one of the biggest tourist destinations Cincinnati has to offer.

 

No doubt, the bulk of money being spent is coming from outside. But what is the breakdown for number of people who walked/ubered/scootered/bussed vs. those who drive. Also when people drive they are parking for the day usually. You're not driving to Fountain Square for a concert then driving to Eagle for dinner then driving to Rhinegeist for drinks then driving home. You park once and you get around another way. 

 

And this also misses the point a bit anyway. Certainly, big money is being spent in Downtown/OTR by people from outside those neighborhoods. But what is the balance of revenue for the average business in OTR? We're not talking about Rhinegeist or Rosedale. We're talking about the corner store, the fast casual lunch place, the coffee shop. For those businesses, their money is overwhelmingly coming from people that live and/or work in OTR. Certainly the BIG businesses are creating a larger demand for parking, but excessive parking also HURTS the small businesses because when people drive to their destination they don't stumble across the corner store or the t-shirt shop or whatever.

Additionally, 3CDC (now that they have taken over DCI) has retired the old Downtown Cincinnati Gift Card program that was run by DCI, and replaced it with the new Queen City Card. Currently it is only accepted by 14 businesses. Hopefully they will work hard on trying to get that expanded significantly. I don’t know the number off the top of my head, but it seems like the old Downtown Cincinnati Gift Card was accepted by far more businesses, and especially most of the good downtown restaurants, which the new one is not.

3 minutes ago, taestell said:

Additionally, 3CDC (now that they have taken over DCI) has retired the old Downtown Cincinnati Gift Card program that was run by DCI, and replaced it with the new Queen City Card. Currently it is only accepted by 14 businesses. Hopefully they will work hard on trying to get that expanded significantly. I don’t know the number off the top of my head, but it seems like the old Downtown Cincinnati Gift Card was accepted by far more businesses, and especially most of the good downtown restaurants, which the new one is not.

We use to buy 100s of the downtown Cincinnati gift cards for clients and colleagues as gifts and thank yous every year. With the change over we have had to switch to a different source altogether. 3CDC shouldn't have messed with something that wasn't broken...

17 hours ago, taestell said:

Additionally, 3CDC (now that they have taken over DCI) has retired the old Downtown Cincinnati Gift Card program that was run by DCI, and replaced it with the new Queen City Card. Currently it is only accepted by 14 businesses. Hopefully they will work hard on trying to get that expanded significantly. I don’t know the number off the top of my head, but it seems like the old Downtown Cincinnati Gift Card was accepted by far more businesses, and especially most of the good downtown restaurants, which the new one is not.

They only announced it to merchants like 2 weeks ago, which seems to have been a miss on their part. They should have been lining up merchants for the last 6 months before announcing it to the public.

On 11/15/2019 at 11:43 AM, ryanlammi said:

Do you know the boundaries of the proposed SID? I believe this was originally discussed last year for South of Liberty, but can't remember exactly. Basically for the 3CDC employees to clean up the sidewalks, right?

 

Here is a document with a lot of good information about the SID.

Not sure if this is still technically OTR (might be CUF), but there is landscaping work being done on 2129-2133 Vine St... clearing the hillside. Nothing showing up in terms of building permits. But I'm glad to see work being done here, regardless.

 

 

Work might be starting on the new-construction bar on the SW side of McMicken near Corwine.  I saw that fencing just went up.  

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.113745,-84.513733,86m/data=!3m1!1e3

23 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

Not sure if this is still technically OTR (might be CUF), but there is landscaping work being done on 2129-2133 Vine St... clearing the hillside. Nothing showing up in terms of building permits. But I'm glad to see work being done here, regardless.

Owned by Terprich LLC (housed at 2127 Van Lear Alley".

 

Terprich LLC has owned 2127 Van Lear Alley since August 2017. They just acquired 2129-2133 Vine in July 2019.

 

I noticed trees moving erratically the other day from Mulberry Street, but didn't go investigate. Interesting. I wonder if they actually have plans for it. It would seem weird to clear the land with no plans.

EDIT: It is in CUF, but right at the border. No need to move it to the other topic since it's right on the border. It also appears to be in the OTR Historic District on the National Register, but it's just beyond the local OTR historic district. So these properties are eligible for funding from state and federal sources to maintain existing historic structures, but there are no restriction on what they can build and no protection from demolition. Since these particular lots are vacant, the only thing a local district would do is describe infill requirements.

1 minute ago, jmecklenborg said:

Work might be starting on the new-construction bar on the SW side of McMicken near Corwine.  I saw that fencing just went up.  

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.113745,-84.513733,86m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

I'm excited for that bar, but I'm genuinely not sure how many people will actually be walking versus using an uber to this bar. 

 

That area at night can be so dark and desolate, with a lot of people who loiter on the streets who are very aggressive to strangers walking in their, "hood".

 

Did it once when I decided to walk to the fcc stadium because of free parking in north of liberty. It's fine during the day but at night it's just a very, very uncomfortable experience... 

3 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

I'm excited for that bar, but I'm genuinely not sure how many people will actually be walking versus using an uber to this bar. 

 

That area at night can be so dark and desolate, with a lot of people who loiter on the streets who are very aggressive to strangers walking in their, "hood".

 

Did it once when I decided to walk to the fcc stadium because of free parking in north of liberty. It's fine during the day but at night it's just a very, very uncomfortable experience... 

 

The area around Rhinegeist was pretty much an un-policed prostitution zone before Rhinegeist moved in. The only way to change these areas is to invest in them. Enforcement will never be enough. It needs foot traffic, and this is the first step. Glad to see someone's investing in it. The intersection at Main/McMicken feels perfectly safe. This is only another block and isn't a stretch to see people walk to that bar. I hope it succeeds.

Finally confirmed, beer tunnel under brandery to become night club and music venue. 

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/11/19/exclusive-historic-over-the-rhine-lagering-tunnels.html?iana=hpmvp_cinci_news_headline

8 minutes ago, troeros said:

Finally confirmed, beer tunnel under brandery to become night club and music venue. 

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/11/19/exclusive-historic-over-the-rhine-lagering-tunnels.html?iana=hpmvp_cinci_news_headline

NItpicky thing that bugs me the historian/architect to no end (and everyone does this): They are lagering CELLARS, not tunnels. Tunnels connect spaces together, these are literally cellars underneath buildings.

 

Been a long time coming, but great to see one of these spaces utilized like this.

I'm just happy that we are getting a night club on Vine Street. 

 

The majority of the "dance" bars have been sort of bunched up along main Street, Walnut, east 13th Street, etc. 

 

Vine has always sort of been the "resturaunt" corridor, which is fine, but this creates a vacuum where you have major crowds one street over, but on Vine Street it's a ghost town because most of the resturaunts close around 11 at night. 

 

I'm actually a big supporter of community bars/night clubs in urban environments. These type of establishments are critical for creating pedestrian traffic and extra eyes on the street at a time in the night that criminals like to be active. 

 

The more entertainment venues you have, the more reason people are out downtown from midnight to 2:30 am, which I ultimately think does play a role in reducing/shying away potential criminals.

1 hour ago, troeros said:

Finally confirmed, beer tunnel under brandery to become night club and music venue. 

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/11/19/exclusive-historic-over-the-rhine-lagering-tunnels.html?iana=hpmvp_cinci_news_headline

 

100 people drinking and listening to loud music deep underground... not for me, I'm too claustrophobic  

21 hours ago, ryanlammi said:

Owned by Terprich LLC (housed at 2127 Van Lear Alley".

 

Terprich LLC has owned 2127 Van Lear Alley since August 2017. They just acquired 2129-2133 Vine in July 2019.

 

I noticed trees moving erratically the other day from Mulberry Street, but didn't go investigate. Interesting. I wonder if they actually have plans for it. It would seem weird to clear the land with no plans.

EDIT: It is in CUF, but right at the border. No need to move it to the other topic since it's right on the border. It also appears to be in the OTR Historic District on the National Register, but it's just beyond the local OTR historic district. So these properties are eligible for funding from state and federal sources to maintain existing historic structures, but there are no restriction on what they can build and no protection from demolition. Since these particular lots are vacant, the only thing a local district would do is describe infill requirements.

 

I stopped by and chatted with the guys doing the site work. They didn't seem to know much about the owner's plans other than wanting to clear the hillside for views. This is in the "Hillside Overlay District", which I would assume places some restrictions on landscaping to minimize erosion/landslides... but not sure which City department ensures this kind of work is performed safely.

 

Edited November 19, 20195 yr by jwulsin

21 minutes ago, Jimmy Skinner said:

 

100 people drinking and listening to loud music deep underground... not for me, I'm too claustrophobic  

 

Isn't noise amplified when it's underground + brick walls + tight compact space? I feel like the dj music could become incredibly piercing on a packed Saturday night. 

 

And what about emergency exits? I know some people here have visited this space in the past so it would be nice if someone can chime and describe if this area feels claustrophobic or not?

 

I hate that I even have to bring this up, unfortunately it's the day and age we live in, but these type of bars that are very compact make perfect targets for those who want to pursue terrorist attacks like in Dayton.

 

 

 

24 minutes ago, troeros said:

And what about emergency exits?

 

The city typically doesn't issue an occupancy permit if it doesn't meet code requirements. If you're going into a newly opened venue, it will meet the code. 

 

24 minutes ago, troeros said:

I know some people here have visited this space in the past so it would be nice if someone can chime and describe if this area feels claustrophobic or not?

 

It depends. Are you claustrophobic?

 

24 minutes ago, troeros said:

I hate that I even have to bring this up, unfortunately it's the day and age we live in, but these type of bars that are very compact make perfect targets for those who want to pursue terrorist attacks like in Dayton.

 

What's the point of this comment? Every space could be a target for terrorist attacks. This is no different from any other venue.

5 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

 

The city typically doesn't issue an occupancy permit if it doesn't meet code requirements. If you're going into a newly opened venue, it will meet the code. 

 

 

It depends. Are you claustrophobic?

 

 

What's the point of this comment? Every space could be a target for terrorist attacks. This is no different from any other venue.

 

Agreed..I was just thinking along the notions of say the drinkey, or rose dales. Alot of bars in otr either have back patios for smokers, or side patios, with various exits versus being clumped together in one room with no windows and becoming sitting ducks. 

 

 

It'll be instagrammable, and that's what is most important. 

I've been in the space.  Most people will access it from Republic Street, where there is an elevator.  There are also two stairs, one that goes to Vine Street, and one that goes to Republic Street, and the entire structure has fire sprinklers, ventilation and alarm systems, so yes of course it will meet building codes and be safe, .. ..but it maybe not be for everyone..

21 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

It'll be instagrammable, and that's what is most important. 

 

But will they have a sign?

1 hour ago, troeros said:

 

Isn't noise amplified when it's underground + brick walls + tight compact space? I feel like the dj music could become incredibly piercing on a packed Saturday night. 

 

And what about emergency exits? I know some people here have visited this space in the past so it would be nice if someone can chime and describe if this area feels claustrophobic or not?

 

I hate that I even have to bring this up, unfortunately it's the day and age we live in, but these type of bars that are very compact make perfect targets for those who want to pursue terrorist attacks like in Dayton.

 

 

 

You should contact the City's building department to voice your concerns. They are the ones who issued the certificate of occupancy. If this space is so concerning for you maybe you can chat with them about it.

1 hour ago, troeros said:

 

Isn't noise amplified when it's underground + brick walls + tight compact space? I feel like the dj music could become incredibly piercing on a packed Saturday night. 

 

And what about emergency exits? I know some people here have visited this space in the past so it would be nice if someone can chime and describe if this area feels claustrophobic or not?

 

I hate that I even have to bring this up, unfortunately it's the day and age we live in, but these type of bars that are very compact make perfect targets for those who want to pursue terrorist attacks like in Dayton.

 

 

 

 

The cellar is 30 feet below the surface and has another basement above it that separates from surface level, I would be absolutely shocked if you could hear any sounds coming from the space. As others have mentioned it meets all City codes.

 

Do you feel claustrophobic in Sotto? The cellar has much higher ceiling height, about 16ft at its peak (but it is much further underground).

51 minutes ago, taestell said:

 

But will they have a sign?

 

I can't remember if The Warehouse had a sign.  They definitely had commercials, however.  They aired late night on Channel 64, along with commercials for Sentiment's Rock City and Stone Mountain.  

 

Club Venus had a sign sculpture.  

 

 

 

 

Did anyone read the article?

 

Some of these ideas that this, "club" will attempt will be quite weird...So they will have "free" performances of CSO classical music that is "modernized" along with consistently changing musical acts throughout the week....but you have to do reservations online or call ahead for 2, 4 or 6 tickets..So does this mean people wanting to go by themselves can't go to see events? 

1 hour ago, taestell said:

 

But will they have a sign?

 

 

I know your joking but in this case i hope it really is something minimal ala the White Rabbit Cabaret in Indy. Is neon /illuminated an option in OTR? Ive seen the red Bar Logo on 14th and vine so I guess it is. 

1 hour ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

I can't remember if The Warehouse had a sign.  They definitely had commercials, however.  They aired late night on Channel 64, along with commercials for Sentiment's Rock City and Stone Mountain.  

 

Club Venus had a sign sculpture.  

 

 

 

 

Appreciate the throw back to Stone Mountain, had almost forgotten about that one.

1 hour ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

I can't remember if The Warehouse had a sign.  They definitely had commercials, however.  They aired late night on Channel 64, along with commercials for Sentiment's Rock City and Stone Mountain.  

 

Club Venus had a sign sculpture.  

 

 

 

 

Not a traditional hanging one but it did say WAREHOUSE in like 2'tall white on black letters. Would not have make it by today's OTR sign regulations i assume

6 minutes ago, Traveler Joe said:

Appreciate the throw back to Stone Mountain, had almost forgotten about that one.

 

A 50+ year-old woman ran that place, from what I remember.  

 

Comey & Shepherd realtor Kate Bridgeman worked at Rock City in the 90s.  

https://katebridgman.comey.com/

1 hour ago, SleepyLeroy said:

 

 

I know your joking but in this case i hope it really is something minimal ala the White Rabbit Cabaret in Indy. Is neon /illuminated an option in OTR? Ive seen the red Bar Logo on 14th and vine so I guess it is. 

 

Per Over-the-Rhine's historic guidelines, neon signs and internally illuminated signs are prohibited. However, some people have gotten away with it in the past. I heard that Pontiac's sign got permitted because historically there had been a neon sign on the building when it was a hardware store. I hear Senate's neon sign is still not permitted but I'm not sure what the case is there because they have had it since they opened. Also, not sure about Kaze's bar sign. Pony and Takeaway both have neon signs on the interior of the building, one way of getting around the policy.

 

Edited November 19, 20195 yr by d_burnham

Beer Garden in progress

 

 

On 11/19/2019 at 8:56 AM, troeros said:

I'm just happy that we are getting a night club on Vine Street. 

 

The majority of the "dance" bars have been sort of bunched up along main Street, Walnut, east 13th Street, etc. 

 

Vine has always sort of been the "resturaunt" corridor, which is fine, but this creates a vacuum where you have major crowds one street over, but on Vine Street it's a ghost town because most of the resturaunts close around 11 at night. 

 

It's perfectly fine for different neighborhoods, or different zones within the same neighborhood, to attract different crowds. Not every street has to be packed with dance clubs and rock venues. Vine Street and adjacent streets seem to be doing well with mostly upscale restaurants and bars. Fortunately it sounds like this new "night club" on Vine isn't really going to attract the 20-something crowd, it's going to be a more specialized concept that appeals to a more mature crowd. In another thread you were complaining about OTR Live and how it attracts "a culture that unfortunately doesn't give 2 sh*ts about whether they brawl in the middle of the streets, or openly pregame at the sycamore lots, or throw all their trash like the environment around them is nothing but one large garbage bag." Surely you don't want Vine Street to attract that same crowd.

22 minutes ago, taestell said:

 

It's perfectly fine for different neighborhoods, or different zones within the same neighborhood, to attract different crowds. Not every street has to be packed with dance clubs and rock venues. Vine Street and adjacent streets seem to be doing well with mostly upscale restaurants and bars. Fortunately it sounds like this new "night club" on Vine isn't really going to attract the 20-something crowd, it's going to be a more specialized concept that appeals to a more mature crowd. In another thread you were complaining about OTR Live and how it attracts "a culture that unfortunately doesn't give 2 sh*ts about whether they brawl in the middle of the streets, or openly pregame at the sycamore lots, or throw all their trash like the environment around them is nothing but one large garbage bag." Surely you don't want Vine Street to attract that same crowd.

 

This is very specific to OTR Live and the particular audience it attracts. Galla Park, Mr. Pitiful, The Drinkery, Tokoyo Kitty, etc don't attract this problem.

 

And yes, nothing wrong with Vine Street remaining a resturaunt corridor. My point was that a few more night time establishments scattered throughout Vine can help add additional foot traffic and pedestrians to Vine late at night...This can perhaps be a trickle down effect and allow for certain Vine Street resturaunts to stay open later for the bar crowd, perhaps allow more late night carry out options open (like say a boom box buns on main)...

 

The problem we still face with otr is that many people who go out and party on main Street think that one street is OTR. The older crowds who only stick to Vine Street, think the resturaunts they eat at on Vine is all of otr. It's very divided and I think the more we can "blend" the 2 areas the more people can realize otr is more than just x -street or x -blocks. 

Edited November 20, 20195 yr by troeros

As for Freeport Row, the long-planned redevelopment at the corner of Liberty and Elm streets in Over-the-Rhine, Dronen said they are still assessing plans for that project. He expects a 2020 start on that project.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/11/20/exclusive-new-real-estate-development-firm-has-big.html?iana=hpmvp_cinci_news_headline

 

I'll believe it when I see it...

19 minutes ago, troeros said:

The problem we still face 

I don't see this as any sort of problem.  In 10 years everything will be different.  Restaurants and bars come and go, as do entertainment districts in a city like Cincinnati.  In 10 years OTR could be dead and restaurants/bars will have migrated back to Mt. Adams.  

 

^That's happened in Columbus like 4 times since 1970.

14 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

I don't see this as any sort of problem.  In 10 years everything will be different.  Restaurants and bars come and go, as do entertainment districts in a city like Cincinnati.  In 10 years OTR could be dead and restaurants/bars will have migrated back to Mt. Adams.  

 

 

Hasn't Main Street been a bar district since the 90s? And would have continued to be a successful bar district if it wasn't for the 2001 riots? That's almost 30 years as an entertainment district. 

 

I think OTR will always feature resturaunts and bars. Barring some major collapse, otr is equivelent to the french quarters. You want to live there, you want to stare at the archeticture, you want to party there. Its a vibe. People like otr because it's cool. No where else in cincinnati looks or feels like otr and that's why it's made people totally infatuated. 

 

Mt. Adams will never be back to where it once was. Mt. Adams parking situation sucks and is hard to traverse. Mt Adams was the party spot because the banks didn't exist, otr was the most dangerous neighborhood in America and downtown was filled with a few good places but alot of people had reservations about being downtown in general after midnight during those days because of safety concerns.

 

Mt adams was like a little private Oasis, away from all the violence. So people flocked. 

Edited November 20, 20195 yr by troeros

3 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

Hasn't Main Street been a bar district since the 90s? And would have continued to be a successful bar district if it wasn't for the 2001 riots? That's almost 30 years as an entertainment district. 

 

I think OTR will always feature resturaunts and bars. Barring some major collapse, otr is equivelent to the french quarters. You want to live there, you want to stare at the archeticture, you want to party there. Its a vibe. People like otr because it's cool. No where else in cincinnati looks or feels like otr and that's why it's made people totally infatuated. 

 

Mt. Adams will never be back to where it once was. Mt. Adams parking situation sucks and is hard to traverse. Mt Adams was the party spot because the banks didn't exist, otr was the most dangerous neighborhood in America and downtown was filled with a few good places but alot of people had reservations about being downtown in general after midnight during those days because of safety concerns.

 

Mt adams was like a little private Oasis, away from all the violence. So people flocked. 

 

You sure do know a lot about the future of these neighborhoods.

 

Nothing in the long term is certain. You're confusing the next 5 years with the next 50-100 years. Mt. Adams could easily rebound. For all we know the nicest restaurants in the region will migrate up to Mt. Adams in 15 years. We have no idea. Things change.

7 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

 

You sure do know a lot about the future of these neighborhoods.

 

Nothing in the long term is certain. You're confusing the next 5 years with the next 50-100 years. Mt. Adams could easily rebound. For all we know the nicest restaurants in the region will migrate up to Mt. Adams in 15 years. We have no idea. Things change.

 

Things indeed do change. I'm not arguing that Mt. Adams could never rebound. I am just echoing constant feedback I hear about Mt. Adams in which people complain about lack of parking, extremely narrow and confusing streets. 

 

People have always enjoyed convienence and simplicity. Going out to dinner or for drinks at the banks or otr is so much simpler.

 

I'd also argue that for college kids who live in Clifton, they probably have cheaper Uber rates for otr versus Mt. Adams which I'm sure plays a small role as well.