17 hours ago, jeremyck01 said:

 

You went to college? Perhaps your professor didn’t grade you harshly enough. 

 

For effective communication where you would like people to take you seriously, things like spelling and grammar matter.  Hence, why no one takes you seriously.  

im in deep trouble. their is all ways gamerly

On 11/28/2019 at 10:10 PM, jeremyck01 said:

 

You went to college? Perhaps your professor didn’t grade you harshly enough. 

 

For effective communication where you would like people to take you seriously, things like spelling and grammar matter.  Hence, why no one takes you seriously.  

 

This quote failed in Grammarly.

On 11/19/2019 at 8:41 AM, jwulsin said:

 

I stopped by and chatted with the guys doing the site work. They didn't seem to know much about the owner's plans other than wanting to clear the hillside for views. This is in the "Hillside Overlay District", which I would assume places some restrictions on landscaping to minimize erosion/landslides... but not sure which City department ensures this kind of work is performed safely.

 

 Currently doing comprehensive alley research, and I didn't know these houses finally changed hands. I'm a bit worried about the viewshed compromising the strength of the hillside. But much of that growth was invasive. 

4 hours ago, 1400 Sycamore said:

 

This quote failed in Grammarly.

Actually it’s technically correct, just awkwardly phrased. I cleaned it up. 

Urban Sites has been awarded 1712 Logan Street after the RFP the City issued this past spring. They plan on constructing a mixed use building on the current parking lot.

 

Council will hold an emergency ordinance agenda to approve this transfer along with property tax exemptions associated with this transfer. 

 

 

Is that the entire parking lot?  Or just part of it?  Always great to see infills on surface lots.  

6 minutes ago, Cincy513 said:

Is that the entire parking lot?  Or just part of it?  Always great to see infills on surface lots.  

 

The entire parking lot. 

1 hour ago, troeros said:

 

The entire parking lot. 

Awesome! Where did you see this?

45 minutes ago, seaswan said:

Awesome! Where did you see this?

 

The original RFP

 

https://choosecincy.com/event/1712logan-rfp/

Here's the November 2019 progress report for 3CDC's ongoing projects. It sounds like the Meiners and Behlen buildings are very close to completion.

Major mixed-use project planned for Findlay Market

3CDC was awarded city funding for their 12th and Main project (not sure if they have another name for this)... also not sure if the rest of the financing in in place yet to begin construction: https://choosecincy.com/2019/11/25/notice-of-funding-availability-nofa-2019-b-awards-announcement/?fbclid=IwAR0pIM3rwnj11cUrxXVnUVGdvHjxx6zcFkQQt0LvCXGk_HQVa4mglUdEQ3A

 

Quote

12th & Main - Awarded up to $200,000, anticipated TDC $8.8MM

 

This renovation project, located in Over-the-Rhine, is planned by 3CDC.  Nineteen (19) apartment units will be created and  Four (4) of those apartments will be affordable for residents earning 60% of AMI or less.

 

Interesting that Urban Sites and CMHA are partnering on this. I'm curious to hear why that was the case, and what each developer is bringing to the project. 

 

Also, I'm curious how they're handling the parking. It says it'll have 93 spots "at grade and one level below". I'm glad they're putting some of the parking underground, and I just hope that they do a good job with the ground-level design. The designs still have to go through HCB, so the design will get reviewed later. 

47 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

Interesting that Urban Sites and CMHA are partnering on this. I'm curious to hear why that was the case, and what each developer is bringing to the project. 

 

Also, I'm curious how they're handling the parking. It says it'll have 93 spots "at grade and one level below". I'm glad they're putting some of the parking underground, and I just hope that they do a good job with the ground-level design. The designs still have to go through HCB, so the design will get reviewed later. 

 

This could be a real game changer for north of liberty. This will probably be the largest new construction developement in North of liberty in many, many decades. 

 

I always that the Hamilton county FCC garage would go on that parking lot though? Is their another sizable parking lot that could fit a large garage structure that's adjacent to Findlay Market?

 

Obviously there is the parking lot right behind Findlay Market, but I hope that if the garage goes there there will be mixed use aspects involved. 

 

 

I wish Main Street managed to find a better footing with it's commercial business offerings.

 

Obviously, Main Street is pretty successful as a bar hopping area but I would still love to see more resturaunts/cafes/speciality stores similar to Vine.

 

As it stands it's basically a bunch of bars a few restaurants sprinkled in and alot of speciality stores that don't really have an identity and feel alot like flea market shops. 

 

I would love to see more day activity on Main similar to Vine, but I'm not sure what a realistic approach would be aside from adding more residents. 

 

4 hours ago, brian korte said:

Major mixed-use project planned for Findlay Market

 

On paper this looks like a good project. 

 

The current surface lot has 80 parking spaces.  So 80 below-grade spaces and roughly 13 surface parking spaces. 

 

 

3 hours ago, troeros said:

 

This could be a real game changer for north of liberty. This will probably be the largest new construction developement in North of liberty in many, many decades. 

 

I always that the Hamilton county FCC garage would go on that parking lot though? Is their another sizable parking lot that could fit a large garage structure that's adjacent to Findlay Market?

 

Obviously there is the parking lot right behind Findlay Market, but I hope that if the garage goes there there will be mixed use aspects involved. 

The County is looking into the option of putting the FCC garage just north of this site, across Elder on the surface parking lots spanning from Central Parkway across Logan all the way to Campbell Alley. A few years ago, Model Group tore down the non-historic “annex” building behind The Globe. Google Maps satellite still shows the old building, but street view shows that it’s now surface parking. 
 

With the 1712 Logan parking lot going away, there will be even more need for structured parking to support Findlay Market and the surrounding area. 

Well, let’s hope the access/exit is off Campbell alley, which would likely result in the loss of 3-4 spaces to the 80.

 

I’d love to see the little non-contributing blue building between Elm and Campbell replaced with a pedestrian laneway that could connect to a cool, small bar laneway environment in this new development. It could even go all the way through to the Film Center if you can rationalize the floor plates, which I think you can. 

2 hours ago, troeros said:

I wish Main Street managed to find a better footing with it's commercial business offerings.

 

Obviously, Main Street is pretty successful as a bar hopping area but I would still love to see more resturaunts/cafes/speciality stores similar to Vine.

 

As it stands it's basically a bunch of bars a few restaurants sprinkled in and alot of speciality stores that don't really have an identity and feel alot like flea market shops. 

 

I would love to see more day activity on Main similar to Vine, but I'm not sure what a realistic approach would be aside from adding more residents. 

 

it will get there eventually, it’s got its own vibe. But like everywhere, things change and OTR overall is only getting stronger. I bet if you walked Main 5 years ago turned around and walked present it would be a big difference, just a lot of perception. 
 

I do think that area of Main/Central Parkway/12th could really change

the look and feel of the area big time but obviously the market isn’t ready for that yet. Looks like the hotness is around Findlay Market right now

4 hours ago, troeros said:

alot of speciality stores that don't really have an identity and feel alot like flea market shops. 

??? What? These are precisely the kind of places that have identity and soul compared to something corporate and generic.

 

Main Street has been doing really well since Ziegler Park reopened and sidewalk/crosswalk improvements were made. I really don’t see your point about anything in your comment.

Edited December 3, 20195 yr by thebillshark

1 hour ago, jwulsin said:

The County is looking into the option of putting the FCC garage just north of this site, across Elder on the surface parking lots spanning from Central Parkway across Logan all the way to Campbell Alley. A few years ago, Model Group tore down the non-historic “annex” building behind The Globe. Google Maps satellite still shows the old building, but street view shows that it’s now surface parking. 
 

With the 1712 Logan parking lot going away, there will be even more need for structured parking to support Findlay Market and the surrounding area. 

 

20,000 square feet of office space though, plus 66 residential units, plus any of the handful of workers who will be part of the ground floor commercial developement..93 spaces doesn't seem nearly enough when you combine all of these elements..Also, the findlay parking lot is already near max capacity on most days.

 

Model group is adding more and more Businesses/residential around findlay, but nothing in the way of parking. 

 

I just feel like until north of liberty is further cleaned up, it will be a tough sell to tell workers to park on Vine or Walnut in north of liberty...do we end up with a sticky situation of how do you continue stimulating investment without dedicated parking.

 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, thebillshark said:

??? What? These are precisely the kind of places that have identity and soul compared to something corporate and generic.

 

Main Street has been doing really well since Ziegler Park reopened and sidewalk/crosswalk improvements were made. I really don’t see your point about anything in your comment.

 

There is that Goods on Main store...that literally reminds me of a junk shop. Also, if you look on commercial spaces available on Main Street it's quite a bit more vacant compared to other stretches of otr. 

 

Regardless, people who visit otr still primarily frequently Vine and occasionally Race because of the anchor known as Taft Ale House. 

 

Main Street is very quiet during the day, especially on the week days, which isn't necessarily a bad thing per say (though probably hurts a lot of smaller day time businesses and shops) but for whatever reason I feel Main Street doesn't attract nearly the same level of foot traffic that the resturaunt corridor on Vine Street does. 

 

Obviously Main Street has some great Businesses like Iris Book Cafe, Buzzed Bull Creamery, MOTR, The Woodward Theater, Platform Brewery, Pins, etc..

 

Maybe main Street needs a larger lineup of resturaunts and cafes?

 

Point is, the level of foot traffic (unless it's a weekend night) is not nearly the same level compared to other stretches of otr..Adding more residents will surely help, but I think adding more resturaunts and cafes will perhaps generate more foot traffic in the long run. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will never complain about a development in downtown not having enough on-site parking.  If the goal is to create the best urban neighborhood it can be, then parking needs to be an afterthought in these developments, not the driving force.  Take the bus, bike, live in OTR, there are options if you want to work there and not deal with the hassle of parking.   No need to cater to people that will live outside the city limits.  We need to push people to use these options if we ever want to reverse the damage that cars have done to our city, that starts with making parking as scarce as we can.

9 hours ago, troeros said:

I just feel like until north of liberty is further cleaned up, it will be a tough sell to tell workers to park on Vine or Walnut in north of liberty...do we end up with a sticky situation of how do you continue stimulating investment without dedicated parking.

 

No.

16 hours ago, taestell said:

Here's the November 2019 progress report for 3CDC's ongoing projects. It sounds like the Meiners and Behlen buildings are very close to completion.

Of the 7 current projects they have listed 6 of them are going to be finished in the next couple of months.  Hopefully we hear of some new projects from them starting in early 2020.  

 

 

9 hours ago, troeros said:

 

20,000 square feet of office space though, plus 66 residential units, plus any of the handful of workers who will be part of the ground floor commercial developement..93 spaces doesn't seem nearly enough when you combine all of these elements..Also, the findlay parking lot is already near max capacity on most days.

 

Model group is adding more and more Businesses/residential around findlay, but nothing in the way of parking. 

 

I just feel like until north of liberty is further cleaned up, it will be a tough sell to tell workers to park on Vine or Walnut in north of liberty...do we end up with a sticky situation of how do you continue stimulating investment without dedicated parking.

 

 

 

 

 

I think some people need to not get so fed up with the parking details, etc. We all understand, and all want, to not have so much dedicated parking, but it really is necessary at this point in time we are living in. We can't reinvent the wheel and for us to want continued economic growth and development in OTR we need dedicated parking. This was a decision that was forced on us by the state and local governments going back 60 or 70 years so it isn't going to change now. It would be great if we had dedicated light rail connecting uptown to downtown which was fast, frequent, and maybe free, but we don't, so we need dedicated parking in the moment to jump start more development.

 

Troy, I believe you are right and developers know this, there is more dediced parking needed to stimulate more investment. It sounds like this project will take care of itself in the parking aspect which is fine and good to hear, but there will definitely need to be probably at least one or two more garages directly around Findlay Market and for sure another garage on Vine Street somewhere north of Libery to help stimulate that area unless they do one massive one in Findlay playground which is two birds with one stone. I still think they will need to have another parking garage somewhere on Vine North of Liberty, though.

3 minutes ago, IAGuy39 said:

 

I think some people need to not get so fed up with the parking details, etc. We all understand, and all want, to not have so much dedicated parking, but it really is necessary at this point in time we are living in. We can't reinvent the wheel and for us to want continued economic growth and development in OTR we need dedicated parking. This was a decision that was forced on us by the state and local governments going back 60 or 70 years so it isn't going to change now. It would be great if we had dedicated light rail connecting uptown to downtown which was fast, frequent, and maybe free, but we don't, so we need dedicated parking in the moment to jump start more development.

 

Troy, I believe you are right and developers know this, there is more dediced parking needed to stimulate more investment. It sounds like this project will take care of itself in the parking aspect which is fine and good to hear, but there will definitely need to be probably at least one or two more garages directly around Findlay Market and for sure another garage on Vine Street somewhere north of Libery to help stimulate that area unless they do one massive one in Findlay playground which is two birds with one stone. I still think they will need to have another parking garage somewhere on Vine North of Liberty, though.

 

I just don't understand the kvetching over not having enough parking. If more parking is necessary then developers will build it. If it's not, they won't. It's pretty simple. It seems like developers are starting to realize that you don't need to build so much parking in OTR and downtown. If it becomes an issue then the pendulum will swing back the other way.

9 hours ago, troeros said:

 

There is that Goods on Main store...that literally reminds me of a junk shop

 

You act like junk shops are bad? 

 

Seriously though, Main probably has a better business mix to be a self-contained neighborhood than any other street in the city. New York Groceries is great for residents to have there. There's a bakery, a bank, several lunch spots, multiple coffee shops. And multiple new restaurants have opened there this year. Aladdin's, Locoba, Louvino, Wodka Bar, Boom Box Buns.

11 hours ago, atlas said:

Well, let’s hope the access/exit is off Campbell alley, which would likely result in the loss of 3-4 spaces to the 80.

 

I’d love to see the little non-contributing blue building between Elm and Campbell replaced with a pedestrian laneway that could connect to a cool, small bar laneway environment in this new development. It could even go all the way through to the Film Center if you can rationalize the floor plates, which I think you can. 

 

That little blue building at 1729 Elm is owned by Model Group. 

On Main Street there's also an interior designer, a frame shop, vintage shops (RAD and Left Coast Modern among others), a tattoo parlor, and a couple of boutique/specialty clothing stores. The diversity of businesses is pretty impressive. 

30 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

 

I just don't understand the kvetching over not having enough parking. If more parking is necessary then developers will build it. If it's not, they won't. It's pretty simple. It seems like developers are starting to realize that you don't need to build so much parking in OTR and downtown. If it becomes an issue then the pendulum will swing back the other way.

 

I don't think there is any kvetching going on.

 

I think it's a fact that developers need to have more dedicated parking to get more projects done that would prove profitable. That's why the county is pushing hard to have one of the garages closer to the Findlay Market instead of one big garage right next to the stadium. Because the developers know and the community knows they need more parking.

 

The good news is that it seems there are more projects going on with low parking or minimum parking. That all said, all the retail and all the people that visit the market and now the surrounding breweries and other destinations need areas to park, and the neighborhood itself does not have enough residents to support all that retail so people need to drive in. It is full now or close to capacity, so we need more parking to keep having economic development in that area. I believe for certain, that is what the market is saying. Otherwise, the OTRCC wouldn't be writing letters in support of more parking needed, especially considering they are the strictest there is about design and walkability.

A few things you need to do for Main Street to reach the same level of vibrancy as other parts of OTR:

 

• Eliminate the dead zones, especially on the west side of the street. Central Parkway to 12th feels dead due to the parking lots and abandoned Davis Furniture building. The 1200 block suffers from the abandoned Mercy Housing buildings (soon to be renovated by 3CDC) and St. Mary's parking lot. 13th to 14th is pretty healthy on both sides of the street--a few vacant storefronts need to be filled but overall it's doing pretty good. So if I were playing SimCity, I'd demolish Davis and the Salvation Army and put a big new apartment tower there, and convince St. Mary's to turn their parking lot into a public plaza with giant outdoor games and picnic tables where people can bring food from nearby restaurants.
• Do a better job of activating Ziegler Park. Obviously the pool is very popular in the summer, but the park feels dead most of the time. I think CityFlea should be moved to Ziegler Park. Get thousands of people to check out a part of the neighborhood they may have never stepped foot in before (in the daytime, at least).
• Shed the reputation of "Main Street 1994" as CityBeat put it. As long as Main Street is full of college dance party bars, people are going to associate Main Street with that, the same way they associate Vine Street with high quality restaurants. LouVino proves that if you put a really good and unique-to-Cincinnati high end restaurant on Main, it can be very successful. The Pony and Liberty's show that you can have neighborhood-oriented bars that don't turn into dance parties on the weekends and they can still be very successful. Do more of that.

37 minutes ago, IAGuy39 said:

 

I don't think there is any kvetching going on.

 

I was referring specifically to people posting on this board. Every time there's a new development there are a handful of posters that chime in with the idea that we are on the verge of a parking crisis. My point is that parking will sort itself out if you let the market handle it.

37 minutes ago, taestell said:

• eliminate the dead zones, especially on the west side of the street. Central Parkway to 12th feels dead due to the parking lots and abandoned Davis Furniture building.

 

Yes, those parking lots and Davis Furniture are a major barrier, as is Central Parkway itself, which only makes it worse.  What's happening with Davis anyway?  It's just been sitting there doing nothing. 

20 minutes ago, jjakucyk said:

Yes, those parking lots and Davis Furniture are a major barrier, as is Central Parkway itself, which only makes it worse.  What's happening with Davis anyway?  It's just been sitting there doing nothing. 

 

From what I've heard, 3CDC wants to buy it but Stough Group (owner of Hanke Exchange) doesn't want to sell it.

Right, what is the point of eliminating parking requirements and allowing developers to build new buildings with no or very little parking, if the government is going to step in and say "we know better than the developers" and build additional parking anyway? Let the free market sort this one out.

There's a dead pigeon in the window of Davis Furniture that's been there for about 4 years now. It's an experiment in decomposition when no outside forces or vermin are involved.

 

I don't see anything moving in next to Salvation Army anytime soon, but the surface lot behind Davis at the corner of 12th and Main is a great location. I would like to see that lot developed as well as Davis, but the city should make sure to keep Wilkymacky Alley intact. Isn't part of that alley still wood blocks? 

2 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

Isn't part of that alley still wood blocks? 

 

I could be wrong, but I think the wood blocks were removed for the streetcar platform.

21 minutes ago, jjakucyk said:

Yes, those parking lots and Davis Furniture are a major barrier, as is Central Parkway itself, which only makes it worse.  What's happening with Davis anyway?  It's just been sitting there doing nothing. 

 

The intersection of Liberty and Main is atrocious and really needs to be addressed. I would go as far as to say that due to its width and pedestrian unfriendliness, Central Parkway is an even bigger barrier than Liberty Street; hopefully 3CDC will realize as they get further into their efforts to lure OTR-style development south to Court Street.

9 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

the city should make sure to keep Wilkymacky Alley intact

 

Normally I would agree, but given the fact that Wilkymacky has already been severed on one side by the streetcar stop, I don't see what purpose it really serves.

^Sorry, I think you all are overthinking this a bit. I don't think the government is saying "this is what we should be doing". I think the market is sorting itself out. It sorted itself out when 3CDC made all the garages, or if when they are deciding to have 95 spaces for the Logan Street Development, etc.

 

3CDC knew that the retail/restaurants/condos wouldn't be successful without the garages. They just got done building one at Ziegler Park, built a large surface lot on Liberty and Race, building another one on Vine, going to build another big one on Vine behind the old Kroger, etc.

 

So, I think you all are annoyed at the fact that we "aren't there yet" to not need any parking. I am with you all and agree with you all. But you can't fight the actual market. The actual market has said and is saying "If you don't build this structured parking, these establishments won't be successful."

 

The market is that way why? Well, we don't have dedicated buses, we don't have dedicated light rail, etc. Those are things which are frustrating for us all.

 

***I Do think the pardigm is shifting to less garages needed, etc. But it still isn't fully there yet and it probably will never be fully there, because Cincinnati is heavily reliant on personal vehicles and that stuff doesn't change quickly.

 

I don't want to argue with anyone about this, it is a thing of schematics, but we can't change what is actually happening. Developers are free to feast by building develpments with no parking, obviously this isn't just *happening*, otherwise we would see it all over the place. They need structured parking to some extent to be successful otherwise the people with the money would gladly do it without parking because they would make more cash. Instead they probably find they can't sell out the apartments with no parking or it's very high risk. It's another way to subsidize development which is obviously needed right now.

 

It's kind of like me saying this whole grain-free dog food craze is so freaking stupid and isn't correct scientifically. It isn't correct, but we can't go out as a small company and say "Do it this way you all are wrong!" because that is not what the market is doing. It would take a multi-million dollar marketing messaging to even get a dent of people to change. It's the same here, I understand the frustration and I am with you all on it.

It's a terrible catch-22.  The more parking that's built because "we aren't there yet" the farther away "yet" gets.  Also keep in mind there's the market, and there's "the market."  The middle man in all this is the lenders.  If the builders and the buyers want less parking, but the project can't get financing without ticking all the check boxes, then that's a market failure, just not a government-imposed one.  I think that's why some places swung the pendulum all the way from parking minimums to parking maximums.  They predicted or saw outright that lenders were holding projects to suburban standards in conflict with new more permissive zoning. 

41 minutes ago, taestell said:

 

Normally I would agree, but given the fact that Wilkymacky has already been severed on one side by the streetcar stop, I don't see what purpose it really serves.

I'm going to be honest, I never noticed that the platform blocked access to the alley until just now looking on streetview. I guess I'm always looking at the dead pigeon in the window...

I walked around DT Nashville for about 5 hours this past weekend.  Everything new is a Dallas Donut or otherwise has its parking on-site.  There is almost no functional street activity (aside from tourists) because people don't walk anywhere, despite being downtown or within walking distance of it.  

53 minutes ago, jjakucyk said:

It's a terrible catch-22.  The more parking that's built because "we aren't there yet" the farther away "yet" gets.  Also keep in mind there's the market, and there's "the market."  The middle man in all this is the lenders.  If the builders and the buyers want less parking, but the project can't get financing without ticking all the check boxes, then that's a market failure, just not a government-imposed one.  I think that's why some places swung the pendulum all the way from parking minimums to parking maximums.  They predicted or saw outright that lenders were holding projects to suburban standards in conflict with new more permissive zoning. 

 

My thing is, I don't know of a way to measure it without really doing a ton of work, but I would guess the amount of parking per unit or restauarant seat, etc. has been steadilly decreasing in the last 5 years.

 

I also think people are taking risk like the Main and 8th development which has me excited in that *maybe* developers will see they can get away with little or no parking on certain projects.

 

I also think business people tend to be fairly smart and will look at most all angles they can to gain $50/unit or whatever, and they know that taking out the parking will give them a lot more flexibility and give them more profit margin per room than with parking. (save $200/unit with no parking then make rent $150 less per unit than competition w/parking, they gain $50).

 

I also think Banks would be wanting to do the same thing but those are a lot more slow to change than are developers. Especially National Banks and even probably large local banks like 5/3rd. You'd probably have more luck with like a Heritage Bank where the CEO can make the decision himself on whether to lend $15mm for a 90 unit apartment complex with retail on ground floor at the corner of Elm and 8th street with no parking or whatever, than US Bank doing it because your project has to fit within their national formula: Financing(x) = Property Values + Parking Spots + Downpayment + Pre-Lease ... whatever it is. But whatever that formula is, it's the same in Des Moines or Peoria, IL as it would be in Cincinnati.

 

Then the problem with local banks lending on local developments is they have less cash to lend so they need to see the ROI for them and their customers, so overall it's a slow process, but I bet things will keep getting better and better with less needed parking moving forward.

3 hours ago, taestell said:

A few things you need to do for Main Street to reach the same level of vibrancy as other parts of OTR:

 

• Eliminate the dead zones, especially on the west side of the street. Central Parkway to 12th feels dead due to the parking lots and abandoned Davis Furniture building. The 1200 block suffers from the abandoned Mercy Housing buildings (soon to be renovated by 3CDC) and St. Mary's parking lot. 13th to 14th is pretty healthy on both sides of the street--a few vacant storefronts need to be filled but overall it's doing pretty good. So if I were playing SimCity, I'd demolish Davis and the Salvation Army and put a big new apartment tower there, and convince St. Mary's to turn their parking lot into a public plaza with giant outdoor games and picnic tables where people can bring food from nearby restaurants.
• Do a better job of activating Ziegler Park. Obviously the pool is very popular in the summer, but the park feels dead most of the time. I think CityFlea should be moved to Ziegler Park. Get thousands of people to check out a part of the neighborhood they may have never stepped foot in before (in the daytime, at least).
• Shed the reputation of "Main Street 1994" as CityBeat put it. As long as Main Street is full of college dance party bars, people are going to associate Main Street with that, the same way they associate Vine Street with high quality restaurants. LouVino proves that if you put a really good and unique-to-Cincinnati high end restaurant on Main, it can be very successful. The Pony and Liberty's show that you can have neighborhood-oriented bars that don't turn into dance parties on the weekends and they can still be very successful. Do more of that.

 

You see, this is kind of my point on how the average visitor views otr as a whole.

 

If you ask a person who visits otr and is from anywhere in greater cincinnati they will say that Vine Street from Taste of Belgium to the Eagle is otr, and main Street is , "downtown". 

 

Or Music Hall to Greaters is all of OTR. 

 

Or hell, some people still just park at the closest Findlay Market parking lot and say Rhinegeist to Findlay Market is all of otr.

 

I almost get the impression that the 24 year old, bar hopping from Queen City Radio to the Lackman to Mecca on Walnut and Mr. Pitifuls on main have a better impression of what otr is simply due to the nature of exploring the neighborhood by foot through bar hopping. 

 

I think older people from greater cincinnati are still primarily people who visit on a Saturday during the day time or afternoon and primarily focus on resturaunts and maybe the occasional bar that's near by to the restaurant they just visited. 

 

I think we need more resturaunts to create "resturaunt hopping" for older day time visitors, which I think in theory could break the mental Barrier. 

 

The small artsy shops and places like take away on main are great. But like you said, they don't really attract the average greater cincinnati visitor, except for maybe an art academy student/near by otr resident. 

 

I think LouVino,  Aladdin's, and Wodka Bar are excellent additions to Main. But the street as a whole definitely could handle at least 6-8 more high quality Resturaunts, which I think would help spillover some of the Vine Street crowds on to main during the day. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, taestell said:

 

From what I've heard, 3CDC wants to buy it but Stough Group (owner of Hanke Exchange) doesn't want to sell it.

It always baffles me that they can just let a building sit there and deteriorate. I feel like the city should give them an ultimatum to either rehabilitate the building or sell it and if they don’t then give them fines until they do. 

6 minutes ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

It always baffles me that they can just let a building sit there and deteriorate. I feel like the city should give them an ultimatum to either rehabilitate the building or sell it and if they don’t then give them fines until they do. 

 

That's why we need a land tax instead of traditional property taxes.  It doesn't force anyone to rehab or build new per se, but it makes speculation and land banking in built up areas a financial loser.  Same for parking lots in prime downtown locations. 

6 minutes ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

It always baffles me that they can just let a building sit there and deteriorate. I feel like the city should give them an ultimatum to either rehabilitate the building or sell it and if they don’t then give them fines until they do. 

 

I believe this case is still alive and has had various appeals and Court hearings. They had a recent appeal hearing just a month ago I believe. 

 

This whole case has had so much back and forth that I've lost track with what's going on tbh. 

59 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

You see, this is kind of my point on how the average visitor views otr as a whole.

 

If you ask a person who visits otr and is from anywhere in greater cincinnati they will say that Vine Street from Taste of Belgium to the Eagle is otr, and main Street is , "downtown". 

 

I've never heard anyone say that. 

 

1 hour ago, troeros said:

I think we need more resturaunts to create "resturaunt hopping" for older day time visitors, which I think in theory could break the mental Barrier.

 

Is "restaurant hopping" even a thing? I've never in my life considered going to another restaurant to eat after I just ate a meal. Maybe bar hopping and get an app at each one or something, but you're not going to eat multiple dinners.

1 hour ago, troeros said:

The small artsy shops and places like take away on main are great. But like you said, they don't really attract the average greater cincinnati visitor, except for maybe an art academy student/near by otr resident. 

 

The vast majority of places in any neighborhood are going to be geared toward residents, not visitors. Residents are there around the clock and spend more money there on the whole. OTR is not a tourist attraction. It's a neighborhood where people live that happens to be very beautiful for visitors and has multiple tourist attractions. The best thing for it would be to build more housing so more people can live there.