January 22, 20205 yr 4 minutes ago, 1400 Sycamore said: Bars are never good neighbors. They only attract visitors and mostly visitors you would not want to see. Admittedly, they have opened up some neighborhoods to development but once actual residents move in the desirability of bars is lost. That's certainly an opinion you can have. I disagree. Some are very good neighbors.
January 22, 20205 yr There is a middle ground. I can name a lot of bars in OTR that I think are great neighbors, that help add street life and add to the culture of the neighborhood. I can name other bars that seem to always be in the news for fights or shootings or some other controversy, and whose patrons litter, throw up on the sidewalk, yell and scream at 2 AM, and make the surrounding block(s) an extremely unpleasant place to be.
January 22, 20205 yr Once those new apartments open in Pendleton OTR Live is going to be on life support. No one is going to want to live in those expensive new apartments that are right next door to a terrible club that blasts music all night. Their owner is the same guy who owned Cameo so I'm not sure why they continue to give that clown liquor licenses. Hopefully someone eventually buys that property from him and they put something else there.
January 22, 20205 yr You take a few bad apples and make them spoil the entire bunch? Rhinehaus is a great bar that unites FCC fans before, during and after games. 3 points is a great tap room that hosts regular events for the neighborhood including bachelor watch parties. Homemakers bar on Walnut hosts almost daily events, including donation drives and cocktail mixology classes. 16 bit brings alot of families and kids when kids are allowed during the day and afternoon hours. Point is, bars have the ability to be more than just where you get rowdy and drunk. They can bring a local community together as a whole.
January 22, 20205 yr 15 minutes ago, Cincy513 said: Once those new apartments open in Pendleton OTR Live is going to be on life support. No one is going to want to live in those expensive new apartments that are right next door to a terrible club that blasts music all night. Their owner is the same guy who owned Cameo so I'm not sure why they continue to give that clown liquor licenses. Hopefully someone eventually buys that property from him and they put something else there. J. Rodgers isnt a bad guy. His clubs attract bad apples but is it really his fault? On the weekends there was almost always a police guard next to OTR Live/Treehouse for safety purposes. They have a dress code, they have a security guard with an electric wand who would pat you down..they do all the right things aside from being annoying with the loud music. I don't want to make this thread controversial, but unfortunately alot of bad apples like rap music and clubs that play exclusively rap music. It's hard to find a bar that is exclusively a "hip hop" bar that doesn't cause controversy. Why don't gay clubs cause this same amount of nuisance? Why doesn't edm clubs cause this same amount of nuisance? It's almost always hip block, rap clubs that cause issues... But if this is indeed true, does this mean otr/downtown can't host clubs that exclusively cater to hip hop music? How can we better socially tame these people who like rap music and attend these clubs to be better humans?
January 22, 20205 yr Timely article: https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/downtown/downtown-otr-bars-under-scrutiny-following-fatal-thanksgiving-shooting Downtown, OTR bars under scrutiny following fatal Thanksgiving shooting Updated: 11:07 AM, Jan 22, 2020 CINCINNATI — City leaders and Cincinnati Police officials are closely examining how Downtown and Over-the-Rhine bars operate after a fatal shooting that left one person dead and another injured on Thanksgiving night.
January 22, 20205 yr 26 minutes ago, Miami-Erie said: Timely article: https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/downtown/downtown-otr-bars-under-scrutiny-following-fatal-thanksgiving-shooting Downtown, OTR bars under scrutiny following fatal Thanksgiving shooting Updated: 11:07 AM, Jan 22, 2020 CINCINNATI — City leaders and Cincinnati Police officials are closely examining how Downtown and Over-the-Rhine bars operate after a fatal shooting that left one person dead and another injured on Thanksgiving night. Once again, "Chalet" downtown is a hip hop oriented bar. When has this ever happened to a gay club. These hip hop bars attract the worst humans for whatever reason.
January 22, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, troeros said: J. Rodgers isnt a bad guy. His clubs attract bad apples but is it really his fault? Somehow, every bar that this guy is involved with attracts the same kind of bad behavior. Police are constantly called, shootings and fights constantly take place outside, and of course a mass shooting took place inside one of them. In the article linked above, there are claims that bartenders are over-serving drunk patrons and at least one patron was drugged. I don't know how you could come to any other conclusion than the owner is clearly doing something wrong. I don't see these types of incidents happen at 4EG bars or the vast majority of the independently owned bars in the core. There are plenty of other bars and clubs that play loud music on weekends and attract people who are loud and disrespectful to the neighborhood...but none of those bars seem to repeatedly have problems with fights, shootings, etc.
January 22, 20205 yr 9 minutes ago, taestell said: Somehow, every bar that this guy is involved with attracts the same kind of bad behavior. Police are constantly called, shootings and fights constantly take place outside, and of course a mass shooting took place inside one of them. In the article linked above, there are claims that bartenders are over-serving drunk patrons and at least one patron being drugged. I don't know how you could come to any other conclusion than the owner is clearly doing something wrong. I don't see these types of incidents happen at 4EG bars or the vast majority of the independently owned bars in the core. There are plenty of other bars and clubs that play loud music on weekends and attract people who are loud and disrespectful to the neighborhood...but none of those bars seem to repeatedly have problems with fights, shootings, etc. Most 4eg bars don't exclusively focus on one music category. There are very few bars that focus exclusively on hip hop and rap...and those bars always face trouble...
January 28, 20205 yr At the Over-the-Rhine Community Council meeting last night there was discussion of revamped efforts for Elm and Liberty. A new developer is involved and the plan looks visually much better than the previous iteration. It's also much bigger. The developer got control of the Boys and Girls Club along Central Parkway, and they will be demolishing that for additional units. Basically the plan is: 3-story parking garage with ~230 spaces (1 fully underground, 1 fully above ground, 1 split) 5 Story structure at the corner and replacing the Boys and Girls Club. Still 11 feet shorter than the old proposal. ~280 units with a mix of studios, 1BR, 2BR, and some 3BR (didn't seem like a lot, but some). A commitment to some affordable housing. Exact mix of units, AMI requirements, and number of units still up in the air depending on available funds. Less retail than the old proposal - mostly focused around Elm street and the corner at Liberty. Better visually than the old one. Preserving Freeport Alley as a pedestrian access point with original bricks. The building will go over the alley, and artwork will be installed in the alley to make it a destination. The garage sounds like it will be wrapped by buildings. Buildings will step down along Elm Street to closer match the buildings on Elm. I don't have any photos, but maybe others do. They aren't looking for a vote to support the project until they have the affordable units ironed out.
January 28, 20205 yr 22 minutes ago, ryanlammi said: At the Over-the-Rhine Community Council meeting last night there was discussion of revamped efforts for Elm and Liberty. A new developer is involved and the plan looks visually much better than the previous iteration. It's also much bigger. The developer got control of the Boys and Girls Club along Central Parkway, and they will be demolishing that for additional units. Basically the plan is: 3-story parking garage with ~230 spaces (1 fully underground, 1 fully above ground, 1 split) 5 Story structure at the corner and replacing the Boys and Girls Club. Still 11 feet shorter than the old proposal. ~280 units with a mix of studios, 1BR, 2BR, and some 3BR (didn't seem like a lot, but some). A commitment to some affordable housing. Exact mix of units, AMI requirements, and number of units still up in the air depending on available funds. Less retail than the old proposal - mostly focused around Elm street and the corner at Liberty. Better visually than the old one. Preserving Freeport Alley as a pedestrian access point with original bricks. The building will go over the alley, and artwork will be installed in the alley to make it a destination. The garage sounds like it will be wrapped by buildings. Buildings will step down along Elm Street to closer match the buildings on Elm. I don't have any photos, but maybe others do. They aren't looking for a vote to support the project until they have the affordable units ironed out. Sounds good. Given the contention over the previous plan, this sounds like a step in the right direction. How did the OTRCC board and attendees react? “All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.” -Friedrich Nietzsche
January 28, 20205 yr 26 minutes ago, JYP said: Sounds good. Given the contention over the previous plan, this sounds like a step in the right direction. How did the OTRCC board and attendees react? Some concerns about what "affordable" means. A few concerned about parking. Josh Spring wanted them to commit to just lower rents and make less money (which no bank would allow if they are loaning the money). Generally, they seemed to take legitimate concerns and act on them. It was a fairly adult conversation about a development. It'll be several months before they come to the council with a "final" plan they ask for approval for. I'm sure some of the negativity will come out as we get closer. This sounded like the first time they have come to the full council in a while, and they were working with the board/infill committee of OTRCC to make a plan that they could get through the community council.
January 28, 20205 yr 300 units is a big project. My guess is that it won't be built entirely in one phase.
January 28, 20205 yr 22 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said: 300 units is a big project. My guess is that it won't be built entirely in one phase. The Artistry is 344 units and is being done in one phase.
February 3, 20205 yr 3CDC has posted their January 2020 project update. In short: Behlen will be finished in early February, Meiners and Elm Industries are also nearing completion, Columbia Flat's apartments are 66% leased so far and construction for the O Pie O retail space will start in February. Just across the Rhine, 11 of the 16 Court Street Condos have been sold.
February 3, 20205 yr A lot of 3CDC's current projects besides 4th and Race seem to be close to complete. Hope we see some new projects announced by them in the near future.
February 3, 20205 yr 25 minutes ago, Cincy513 said: A lot of 3CDC's current projects besides 4th and Race seem to be close to complete. Hope we see some new projects announced by them in the near future. From walking around downtown it looks like these 3CDC projects are just starting: 1.) Wilkommen is underway with interior demo going on in a few of the buildings. 2.) The 3CDC/OTRCH project looks like it may also be starting soon as I saw a fence up at the parking lot and a trash chute in front of the adjacent white building (Northwest side of Vine between 15th and Liberty). 3.) They are also still doing interior demo on Fountain Place. “All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.” -Friedrich Nietzsche
February 3, 20205 yr ^ In addition to those projects which are just beginning, there are plenty of rumors swirling about what other big projects they might have on the horizon, many of which have been mentioned in this thread or elsewhere on the forum.
February 4, 20205 yr How a pair of developers and Children’s Theatre plan to save the Emery Theatre Nearly 30 years ago, Chris Frutkin was looking for redevelopment opportunities around Cincinnati. Jim Tarbell recommended he take a look at the Emery Center, home of the Emery Theatre and recently vacated by Ohio Mechanics Institute, which had been absorbed by the University of Cincinnati and moved to Edgecliff Campus. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/02/04/how-a-pair-of-developers-and-children-s-theatre.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 5, 20205 yr When I think "perfect acoustics" I don't think Children's Theater, but its better than letting the space sit vacant like it has been. This building is great so I'm just excited something might move forward, including hopefully re-building the historic awning/entrance on the Walnut Street side.
February 5, 20205 yr 26 minutes ago, ucgrady said: When I think "perfect acoustics" I don't think Children's Theater, but its better than letting the space sit vacant like it has been. This building is great so I'm just excited something might move forward, including hopefully re-building the historic awning/entrance on the Walnut Street side. I think there was concern about using the theater with residential also in the building. I am not sure how much sound dampening there is between the theater and the apartments but having concerts in there would have had some sound bleeding through the walls. Some developers even contemplated converting the theater into apartments. With that in mind, the Children's Theater seems to be the right fit. “All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.” -Friedrich Nietzsche
February 5, 20205 yr I've never seen any apartments for rent in that building but probably wasn't looking too closely. Are these high end apartments or more workforce like 1000 a month for studio/1 bed?
February 5, 20205 yr They're pretty cool apartments in there. Not high end with it being an older building but they were more then $1,000/month for a one bedroom a couple years ago. Honestly I wouldn't want to live there if they're going to be doing shows in my building. I'm sure there would be at least some noise issues.
February 5, 20205 yr I lived there some years ago. At the time it was reasonable and your parking spot was included. That became an added fee while I was living there but everyone currently there was grandfathered in. It was super quiet between units I thought with thick walls of the old classrooms.
February 5, 20205 yr They would only have to build an interior wall with 6" of space between it and the existing wall in the units that abut the theater to mitigate any sound that now leaks through. Sounds to me like they're just afraid of rock & roll.
February 5, 20205 yr You need a LOT more than just a 6" air gap to stop sound transmission from live shows. With that said, there are certainly ways of achieving it. But having once looked at a condo above a live stage and snooping around, finding ear plugs on the nightstands I can't imagine it's going to be an easy sell and people will (rightfully) question any statement made about soundproofing, even if it truly is handled.
February 5, 20205 yr 6 hours ago, JYP said: I think there was concern about using the theater with residential also in the building. I am not sure how much sound dampening there is between the theater and the apartments but having concerts in there would have had some sound bleeding through the walls. Some developers even contemplated converting the theater into apartments. With that in mind, the Children's Theater seems to be the right fit. Yeah, the Children's Theatre is not the ideal tenant, but it's better than the space being turned into a rock climbing gym or more apartments. And honestly, the opportunity to turn it into a concert venue has passed, as there are too many other similarly sized venues that have opened in recent years or are under construction.
February 5, 20205 yr It was interesting in the walk through. I guess it was all rock wool insulation and the natural fiber seating but when you went into the theater is was like a sound studio with not a bit of echo or reverberation. All of the units will be upgraded eventually, but there is a pretty thoughtful plan in place to reduce disruption and dislocation of the existing tenants many of whom have lived there for a really long time. Edited February 5, 20205 yr by 1400 Sycamore
February 6, 20205 yr Having it used as a performance space of any kind is fantastic. It means it will be preserved as a performance space. That means it may host things you'd want to attend in the future, regardless of your thoughts on children's theater.
February 6, 20205 yr Via this WCPO story, it seems that 3CDC is trying to evict the cell phone store in the former KFC at Liberty & Elm, claiming they have been allowing "illicit criminal activity" in their parking lot.
February 7, 20205 yr 21 hours ago, taestell said: Via this WCPO story, it seems that 3CDC is trying to evict the cell phone store in the former KFC at Liberty & Elm, claiming they have been allowing "illicit criminal activity" in their parking lot. "Claiming".......those are cold hard facts. There is constant drug activity in that parking lot. I'm going to have to agree with 3CDC on this, the sooner that cell phone store is gone, the better. Edited February 7, 20205 yr by d_burnham
February 7, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, d_burnham said: "Claiming".......those are cold hard facts. I agree...but you would be surprised how many people on social media are claiming the drug dealing isn't happening and crying "gentrification" over the loss of a "culturally important" cell phone store in a former KFC.
February 10, 20205 yr This article from the Columbus Dispatch mentions Michael Schiff is working in collaboration with Chinedum Ndukwe's Kingsley & Co on two potential projects in OTR, including the old CMHA site at 16 W Central Parkway, and a separate project at 1923 Elm St: https://www.dispatch.com/business/20200210/columbus-developer-michael-schiff-wants-to-build-100-million-cincinnati-tower Quote Schiff said he also has ownership interest in the old Cincinnati Metropolitan Housing Authority building at 16 W. Central Parkway, where his firm and Kingsley & Co. have proposed a $22 million mixed-used development, including office, retail and parking space. He said he also owns a “significant piece” of a building across the street from Rhinegeist Brewery at 1910 Elm St. that he wants to redevelop, among several other Cincinnati-area properties. The Kingsley website mentions both of those sites, but doesn't have any detail on 1923 Elm other than saying it's an "available site": https://kingsleyandcompany.com/what-we-do/projects.html Quote 16 West Central Parkway, Cincinnati, OH 45202 Proposed Total Project: 22 Million Kingsley and Co. was selected as the developer of the former CMHA Headquarters in downtown Cincinnati. Kingsley and Co. negotiated a purchase and sale agreement with the Housing and Urban Development, HUD. The proposed mixed-use development includes office, retail, and parking. ... 1923 Elm Street Available site Edited February 10, 20205 yr by jwulsin
February 10, 20205 yr 29 minutes ago, jwulsin said: This article from the Columbus Dispatch mentions Michael Schiff is working in collaboration with Chinedum Ndukwe's Kingsley & Co on two potential projects in OTR, including the old CMHA site at 16 W Central Parkway, and a separate project at 1923 Elm St: https://www.dispatch.com/business/20200210/columbus-developer-michael-schiff-wants-to-build-100-million-cincinnati-tower The Kingsley website mentions both of those sites, but doesn't have any detail on 1923 Elm other than saying it's an "available site": https://kingsleyandcompany.com/what-we-do/projects.html Glad to see 16 W Central is still a thing. I thought that died years ago.
February 14, 20205 yr I was going to post about the OTR SID here, but then I realized that we already have a thread dedicated to that topic. It was originally started back in 2007, when the "Vitality OTR" project attempted to create a SID. Now, 13 years later, the idea is back: 1 minute ago, taestell said: There is a new official website for the OTR South SID proposal. Residents/property owners who live inside the proposed SID area will be getting petitions in the ballot next week, and they are asking for the petitions to be signed and returned by April 3.
February 15, 20205 yr I went to Tuckers (on Vine by Findlay Market) today. Based on the conversations I overheard, it sounded like they aren't doing well. It would be an incredible shame if they closed. Don't get me wrong, OTR is great, but if they are truly on the ropes, it is still one less 'authentic' place in an increasingly curated neighborhood.
February 16, 20205 yr Here’s some random developments throughout OTR. Taken 2/16. First one is a 5 story new building on Vine that will be affordable housing. Second is what appears to be a new duplex on Race.
February 17, 20205 yr 18 hours ago, Ucgrad2015 said: You just missed the fire that happened in that building this morning. https://www.wlwt.com/article/firefighter-injured-after-falling-10-feet-while-fighting-house-fire-in-over-the-rhine/30962027 “All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.” -Friedrich Nietzsche
February 17, 20205 yr In the latest HCB packet (https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/february-24-2020-staff-report-and-attachments/) there is a proposal for a "750 sf deli with seating" at 100 E. Clifton. That stretch doesn't currently have any businesses that I'm aware of. Kind of surprising, but would be great if it works out. https://www.google.com/maps/place/100+E+Clifton+Ave,+Cincinnati,+OH+45202/@39.116567,-84.5152448,3a,75y,31.19h,104.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLXWkiwxV3v8atLJoxR8SBQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0x8841b3fa4d6c7771:0xe3f99a31ce702b25!8m2!3d39.1166786!4d-84.5150709
February 21, 20205 yr I thought there were already apartments going in this lot? I know there was pushback due to the developer wanting to put in more units than what residents wanted but I had thought everything went through. Feel like this will meet the same fate as that proposal. https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/02/21/otr-apartments-a-waitress-or-bartender-can-afford.html?iana=hpmvp_cinci_news_headline
February 21, 20205 yr The density limits should be removed, yesterday. They are artificially stunting the growth of the city and forcing unpleasant tradeoffs in terms of affordability and the types of projects that can be pursued. www.cincinnatiideas.com
February 21, 20205 yr Thanks for posting Jake! @jmecklenborg What's going on there on Vine Street? Is that part of a Model Project that they bought the properties a little while back? Also, the one building with the green wood in the windows and the red SUV out front, that was supposed to be something a while ago wasn't it? That's a lonely basketball hoop.
February 21, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, thebillshark said: The density limits should be removed, yesterday. They are artificially stunting the growth of the city and forcing unpleasant tradeoffs in terms of affordability and the types of projects that can be pursued. There are efforts afoot within the city to do just that. Not sure how far along they are in making it public, but I've had discussion with city staff on this issue and I know they are talking to other folks as well.
February 21, 20205 yr ^So happy to hear this. As far as I am concerned, my OTR neighbors who build massive single family homes on lots where 10-20 people once lived, and then complain about neighboring developments with even modest densities, should be ashamed.
February 21, 20205 yr 28 minutes ago, jim uber said: ^So happy to hear this. As far as I am concerned, my OTR neighbors who build massive single family homes on lots where 10-20 people once lived, and then complain about neighboring developments with even modest densities, should be ashamed. THIS. Please tell them to move back to the suburbs.
February 21, 20205 yr I looked at the auditor's site for Westfallen II. I was amazed to see that some couple has lived in one of the tiny $109,000 studios since they were built in 2014. So 5+ years of literally living in a shoe box.
February 21, 20205 yr They really aren't "shoeboxes." I owned one of the studios in Westfalen II for a few years and loved it. It could have easily comfortably housed another person that was like-minded. Not everyone needs a boatload of space to be comfortable and happy in their living environment. Some of us are more than happy to live small but be in a good location, like being a 2 minute walk away from Washington Park.
February 21, 20205 yr On 12/17/2019 at 4:40 PM, d_burnham said: From what I have heard.... Panino was not making the rent. The word is they're moving up to Findlay Market into a Model Group space. Panino's food is killer but they had a huge bar in that space that always sat empty and it's in such a prime spot. 3CDC works on percentage rent deals with a floor base rent. Basically, 3CDC says, hey we'll put a lot more money into the buildout of your space than a typical landlord but we get 7% of your sales over an agreed upon sales threshold. The tenant pays a base rent but if they perform well and sales are over the threshold, 3CDC gets 7% of the amount over the threshold. I work in commercial real estate, happy to explain percent rent in more detail if you'd like. I've also worked on a 3CDC deal before. We now have more info on what happened: Quote 3CDC, restaurateur file dueling lawsuits over shuttered OTR eatery Cintrifuse Landlord LLC, a subsidiary of 3CDC, sued shuttered restaurant Panino and its owner Nino Loreto in Hamilton County Court of Common Pleas on Feb. 14, alleging that the restaurant owed more than $85,000 in back rent. Cintrifuse Landlord LLC is asking the court to force Loreto to hand over restaurant equipment that he promised in the lease as collateral. [...] Loreto's countersuit claimed that Cintrifuse Landlord and 3CDC promised to make its best efforts to obtain approval to purchase the land adjoining the restaurant space, now a public park called Imagination Alley, and use it to construct an outdoor bar and patio for the restaurant. The countersuit claims that the outdoor patio was "absolutely necessary for its success."
March 5, 20205 yr On 1/22/2020 at 9:50 AM, taestell said: Yeah, I don't know why they can't do a taller building with apartments above the restaurant, unless they're simply trying to do this project for as cheap as possible or have some other motivation for tearing down the existing building quickly. It reminds me of when 3CDC first proposed a 1-story building for the vacant corner lot across the street from Taft's Ale House. Eventually, a 3-story building was built instead. Here are a few more screenshots from the HCB packet showing the proposed building: This has been revised:
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