2>>>>>>>1

 

 

2 hours ago, brian korte said:

 

This has been revised:

 

 

Do they already have a tenant for the building? 

It's a fairly minor change but the second version fits in so much better than the first. Do you know if the upstairs will be additional restaurant seating or some other use?

Sign restaurants are so much nicer than Chipelto. 

16 hours ago, taestell said:

It's a fairly minor change but the second version fits in so much better than the first. Do you know if the upstairs will be additional restaurant seating or some other use?

 

From the HCB packet, "The building will have the appearance of a 2-story building but will remain a strictly commercial building designed for an eating and drinking establishment." and "The building is a 2 story building by appearance, as the interior is a 1 story functional space."

I was going to ask if it was just pretending to be two stories. Bummer they are just wasting that space

It's going to be like the old Don Pablo's in Rookwood, but all new construction.  An architectonic caper.  

Last night at the OTR Made Awards it was announced that American Soul & Jamaican food restaurant Flavors of the Isle will be moving into the Pho Lang Thang space in Findlay Market. I had some of their food last night and although I can't speak for authenticity because I've got no soul and I'm not a Jamaican food expert, it was very delicious and I think it will be successful. 

Boombox Buns will also be moving into the former Injoy/Picnic and Pantry space on Republic across from Salazar and Low Spark and just down the street from Ghost Baby. 

Anyone here have any updates on the Liberty Street narrowing? I remember seeing somewhere it was supposed to start this summer but not sure if that’s still the case. I’ve heard 3CDC is involved now, which seems like it would help speed things up. 

^It cracks me up when NIMBY folks complain about a developer offering "shoebox" apartments/condos... as if they believe they're going to be forced to move into one just because a new building in their neighborhood offers small apartments. 

A couple photos of renovations along Elm St north of Findlay Market:

 

 

New pour your own drink bar called Copper and Flame is going in the old Rook space.

Former GOODS storefront at Main & 13th is boarded up. I assume the entire building is being rehabbed? GOODS is moving across the street.

Today I noticed that the street trees in front of the Gateway Condos just grew substantially.  They were transplanted around 2003 so they're really starting to take off.  In another 10 years they'll be seriously big trees.  Hopefully they are allowed to mature and we don't see them cut down just as they start looking good, as happened on McMillan St. near Wheeler about five years ago. 

 

North of 12th, some of the circa-2012 street trees are almost reaching to the middle of Vine.  By 2025 we will have a tree tunnel. 

 

The new surface parking lot where the Kroger stood is almost ready.  It is oddly sloped, however, and might be the ugliest new parking lot in the neighborhood. 

If it's these trees you speak of, it's a shame they used that type of tree in the first place.    They appear to be Callery Pear trees (Bradford Pear).   

Aside from now being labeled an invasive tree by the state of Ohio, they are a very weak tree that does not stand up to high winds.  From what most information sites conclude is they also don't usually live past 20 years.   Hopefully when the time comes they will use a more native tree to our region.   I believe even Home Depot and Lowes must cease selling these in Ohio by 2023.  The edges of our interstates are littered with these trees which are taking over even the other invasive honeysuckle territories.

 

https://goo.gl/maps/VmGvTWVWbp2Jd8cZ7

 

https://www.citylab.com/environment/2019/07/bradford-callery-pear-trees-invasive-species-forests/593044/

Edited April 20, 20205 yr by oakiehigh

32 minutes ago, oakiehigh said:

If it's these trees you speak of, it's a shame they used that type of tree in the first place.    They appear to be Callery Pear trees (Bradford Pear).   

Aside from now being labeled an invasive tree by the state of Ohio, they are a very weak tree that does not stand up to high winds.  From what most information sites conclude is they also don't usually live past 20 years.   Hopefully when the time comes they will use a more native tree to our region.   I believe even Home Depot and Lowes must cease selling these in Ohio by 2023.  The edges of our interstates are littered with these trees which are taking over even the other invasive honeysuckle territories.

 

https://goo.gl/maps/VmGvTWVWbp2Jd8cZ7

 

https://www.citylab.com/environment/2019/07/bradford-callery-pear-trees-invasive-species-forests/593044/

Callery Pears are incredibly invasive. You really can't tell how much so unless they are blooming-which they recently did. I could not believe how many of those white clouds of blooming Callery pears were everywhere-colonizing fields and lining old fences. Whole abandoned fields out here(Madison County)were full of them. 

 

I think the new ones they plant are better and longer lived cultivars like "Aristocrat" and "Cleveland" rather than the bad branch angled "Bradford" so they should be longer lived and less subject to breakage as well as being a bit smaller and narrower, but they are all still very invasive. Over the last dozen years I have seen them spreading around here and I am amazed at how many of them have naturalized. Again you really can't tell until they are blooming(early when other trees have no leaves out)and then you can really see just how many of them there are as they are not just blending in with the other greenery.

 

They plant them because they are so tough and can deal so well with urban conditions, but they need to find alternative flowering trees. 

On some streets in OTR, there are locust trees that were planted in the early 90's and they look awesome. They are hardy, with thin trunks and long branches, and the tiny leaves blow away easily in the fall.  Seems like the perfect urban tree. 

^Probably Honey Locust.    Elms and pin oaks are great once they get some size to them.

 

https://www.pottstowntrees.org/H2-Best-street-trees.html

3 hours ago, oakiehigh said:

https://goo.gl/maps/VmGvTWVWbp2Jd8cZ7

 

Ah yes, the ol' Bradford Pear lecture.  A first-world problem, if there ever was one.  

On 6/5/2019 at 11:41 AM, 10albersa said:

 

In addition to what's pictured above, it looks like there will be access to the new 3CDC parking lot from 14th Street. The very small parking lot next to the Kaze bar has been eliminated and turned into an entrance.

 

 

They also saved the former Kroger sign and changed it to say 3CDC Public Parking.

Surprised we haven't heard much about what's going into Wielert's. It looks like the facade has been completely repainted now.

 

Meiners/Behlen also nearing completion:

2 hours ago, taestell said:

Surprised we haven't heard much about what's going into Wielert's. It looks like the facade has been completely repainted now.

 

Looks great! Can not wait to see that whole section whenever 3CDC decides what they are going to do with the old kroger site.

Edited April 22, 20205 yr by Ucgrad2015
Spelling

^Unfortunately they're turning it into a "nice" parking lot, which hints that they don't have near-term plans for it. 

8 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

^Unfortunately they're turning it into a "nice" parking lot, which hints that they don't have near-term plans for it. 

I think pretty much everyone assumed 3CDC wasn't going to do anything with this land until they got control of the entire block.  The corona outbreak may even delay it further, though maybe the other party will be more willing to sell their plot given the current economic climate.  

I wish they had replaced the missing piece of the parapet detail on the top left side of the Wielert building. 

57 minutes ago, Cincy513 said:

I think pretty much everyone assumed 3CDC wasn't going to do anything with this land until they got control of the entire block.  The corona outbreak may even delay it further, though maybe the other party will be more willing to sell their plot given the current economic climate.  

 

Any chance of the small lot at 12th and Vine getting built on once the new lot is open?

I am very interested to see how the Liberty Street Diet is going to tie into everything. What is 3CDC's next bigger move after all of this in OTR? 

It's possible that 3CDC will not announce any new large projects in the near future given the current world circumstances. I don't think it would be terrible for them to take their time filling out their current retail spaces, getting the OTR SID up and running, restoring programming at the parks, finishing up construction on Fourth and Race, and maybe making a little bit more progress on their Court Street overhaul. They are also trying to evict the cell phone store at Liberty & Elm, so maybe we see that building demolished and turned into another "nice" parking lot until it's time to redevelop -- the Liberty Street Road diet will be done by that point, too.

 

48 minutes ago, Dresden11 said:

Any chance of the small lot at 12th and Vine getting built on once the new lot is open?

 

I don't know if they are considering this, but I think it would be great if their next focus was building on some of the parking lots in southern OTR. There are so many surface parking lots between 12th and 13 streets, from Republic to Clay, that need to be filled in, although not all are owned by 3CDC. It would really make that area feel much more "complete", and there are so many garages in southern OTR/northern CBD that these lots are really unnecessary. If they paired this with a nice streetscape on 12th, 13th, and Vine streets (on the level of what the city did for Main Street), it would really take this area to the next level.

17 hours ago, taestell said:

Surprised we haven't heard much about what's going into Wielert's. It looks like the facade has been completely repainted now.

 

I'm disappointed that they didn't just freshen up the pale green color. I thought it actually looked really good if they just freshened it up. They made it the boring blueish gray that every other building in OTR uses.

I also would have preferred it to stay in the green family, it helped distinguish the building and make it different than nearly every other building on Vine street.

 

It's hard to tell on your photo from 14th street if the parking lot goes all the way to the back of this building. Could you tell if work is being done, or is already done, on the back of Weilert's? Since this property was historically known for its huge beer garden I hope it has at least some outdoor space out back. 

Edited April 22, 20205 yr by ucgrady

An indication that these parking lots are not forever, in my opinion, are the pavers. These are reusable and if you've watched them be installed, you will find that they come in 4'x4' units that a forklift easily picks up and down. Additionally, they allow stormwater to permeate making them ultimately greener (or bluer) because stormwater goes into the earth instead of the stormwater system.

Thanks for the info, I had been wondering if the pavers had stormwater runoff benefits.

It looks like they are done with concrete work outside the new Sugar and Spice location at 12th & Sycamore. They have built a new ramp and it looks like they're building a waiting area where people can sit outside. (It could be an outdoor dining area, but it doesn't look like one to me.)

 

 

 

16 minutes ago, taestell said:

It looks like they are done with concrete work outside the new Sugar and Spice location at 12th & Sycamore. They have build a new ramp and it looks like they're building a waiting area where people can sit outside. (It could be an outdoor dining area, but it doesn't look like one to me.)

 

 

 

Glad to see things progressing. For awhile there it seemed like there was no work being done.

On 4/22/2020 at 2:20 PM, ucgrady said:

I also would have preferred it to stay in the green family, it helped distinguish the building and make it different than nearly every other building on Vine street.

 

It's hard to tell on your photo from 14th street if the parking lot goes all the way to the back of this building. Could you tell if work is being done, or is already done, on the back of Weilert's? Since this property was historically known for its huge beer garden I hope it has at least some outdoor space out back. 

 

There is not currently a tenant for Wielert's. The plan is to finish the storefronts on Vine to upgrade the look of the street. Wielert's will have a small outdoor space on the backside but nothing close to what it was originally. The land on the backside of Wielert's is needed for future development.

On 4/28/2020 at 2:34 PM, taestell said:

It looks like they are done with concrete work outside the new Sugar and Spice location at 12th & Sycamore. They have built a new ramp and it looks like they're building a waiting area where people can sit outside. (It could be an outdoor dining area, but it doesn't look like one to me.)

 

Is 3CDC involved with the new Sugar n' Spice?

15 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

Is 3CDC involved with the new Sugar n' Spice?

 

No - I posted in the wrong thread. I have now moved my post & replies to the non-3CDC thread.

The April 2020 progress report email from 3CDC strangely didn't mention 4th & Race at all. However, the 1400 Vine lot is now open and the new affordable housing project north of The Kruckmeyer is now called Perseverance.

I can't believe they just paved right over Wielert's biergarten. I guess it was just a yard, but seems sacrilegious. 

What is being built on the lot south of Perseverance? 

^ That lot will be infilled as part of the project.

 

2 hours ago, Jimmy Skinner said:

I can't believe they just paved right over Wielert's biergarten. I guess it was just a yard, but seems sacrilegious. 

 

Here's a post from 4 years ago that shows the back of Wielerts before they tore down the weird garage structure. I don't think anything resembling anything historic was there, but yeah, the symbolism of it is still striking. I really wish they would double the lot size and add a huge biergarten to the back. Really put thought into it. Make it a proper one with servers coming around, a few games to play, maybe a little bandstand. It would be a really neat place if they did it right. Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like it's going to happen.

 

 

photos courtesy of @jwulsin

 

It would be cool if they had a beer garden all the way to Walnut St.  They could bill it as the "world's biggest beer garden", even if it isn't.  

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1115034,-84.5139009,3a,75y,251.39h,98.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUSB8ur9nodYrboM27x1whQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

 

3 hours ago, ryanlammi said:

Here's a post from 4 years ago that shows the back of Wielerts before they tore down the weird garage structure. I don't think anything resembling anything historic was there, but yeah, the symbolism of it is still striking. I really wish they would double the lot size and add a huge biergarten to the back. Really put thought into it. Make it a proper one with servers coming around, a few games to play, maybe a little bandstand. It would be a really neat place if they did it right. Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like it's going to happen.

 

This aerial I took in June 2017 just happened to capture them demolishing it:

 

 

It would be great if they could incorporate a biergarten into the long-term plan for that block, even if they weren't able to make it work for the temporary parking lot configuration. If they can have garage entrances from Vine, 15th, and/or Walnut, they wouldn't really need the entrance from 14th Street that they built for the temporary lot. Maybe the biergarten could even "wrap around" the Color building and have an entrance on 14th.

 

FWIW, I heard that 3CDC tried to partner with a successful operator of heavily-themed bars in Cincinnati on the Wielert's building, but they weren't able to make it work because of how many other projects he had going on.

^ That makes sense... it is easy to say what we all think ‘they should do’ but it takes a willing and capable operator to make these things happen. And the willing and able operator needs cash. And even if all those things exist it is still hard to make these things work. The rapid progress in OTR has slowed a bit so even if 3CDC wants to do a Biergarten, parking garage, hotel, office, mixed use, etc on that land, I don’t know if the time is right. In the near term, a parking lot, while not the most ideal land use, will help support the existing commercial tenants just south of liberty, bridge the gap between N and S of liberty and help get a lot of office tenants into the neighborhood. Fingers crossed when the time is right that land can be used to execute a high density project that suits the neighborhood right- and free up the 12th and vine lot for a project. 

The new parking lot is fairly large, and people are going to get used to it awfully fast.  That means when it comes time to build in this space the loss of parking is going to be very disruptive. 

10 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

The new parking lot is fairly large, and people are going to get used to it awfully fast.  That means when it comes time to build in this space the loss of parking is going to be very disruptive. 

Whenever they develop the land it will be replaced by a garage with more parking spots.  People will get over it, life will go on. 

10 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

The new parking lot is fairly large, and people are going to get used to it awfully fast.  That means when it comes time to build in this space the loss of parking is going to be very disruptive. 

 

There is definitely a certain type of person who prefers parking in a lot because they get confused or stressed out parking in a garage. If the 12th & Vine lot is redeveloped, there will probably be a few people who are mad that "their" lot is being eliminated even though there is a garage directly across the street. As Urban Cincinnati continues to grow and revitalize, I think we need to worry about this type of person less and less. Either they'll learn how to park in a garage, or they won't come downtown anymore and they'll leave those garage spaces available for other people.

To be fair, it's not just intimidated/confused people who are set in their ways. I work with a few women (two of which live in the urban core) who only park in a few well-lit surface parking lots around town and refuse to use garages because they are 'scary'. I'm not sure there is a reality to garages being more dangerous than a surface lot with eyes on the street, but due to myriad Hollywood scenes taking place in garages (I blame Law & Order SVU), I can see why a woman by herself doesn't want to park in one.