I've lived downtown for 8 years now.  I've always parked my car in a garage and never had any issues.  I wouldn't ever leave my car in a surface lot overnight.  You're just asking for someone to try to get into it your car if you leave it out in the open overnight imo.  

New roof going in at 18 E McMicken (former church/theater). Anybody know what the plans are for this site? The owner is "Great Miami Holdings LLC" and they bought the site (including the adjacent surface parking) in 2016.

 

This came down today.

^ I should know, but I'm drawing a blank - Where is that?

 

I'm really looking forward to the new Willkommen project buildings, especially the ones on Vine and Pleasant/Liberty.

^ Woodward and Hanover, right next to the Ziegler Park pool. The existing non-historic building was demolished and will be replaced with this:

 

On 3/5/2020 at 2:24 PM, brian korte said:

 

This has been revised:

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, taestell said:

^ Woodward and Hanover, right next to the Ziegler Park pool. The existing non-historic building was demolished and will be replaced with this:

 

 

I live in the brick building next door. Was very interesting to watch this thing come down today, especially when they knocked down some power lines in the process. Do you know where I can learn more about the future plans? 

I watched this demo in the rain from the Peaslee parking lot. Pretty new building. They had a little incident with wires coming down. I was pretty sure they were alive when they were hit but no one seemed excited. My crew at 1400 Sycamore wasted the hour hanging out the 4th floor windows.

1 hour ago, taestell said:

^ Woodward and Hanover, right next to the Ziegler Park pool. The existing non-historic building was demolished and will be replaced with this:

 

 

 

Ah, thanks. I saw the "Willkommen" on the sign so I thought it was up near Liberty and Republic. No wonder why I couldn't place it.

17 hours ago, ggoebel said:

I live in the brick building next door. Was very interesting to watch this thing come down today, especially when they knocked down some power lines in the process. Do you know where I can learn more about the future plans? 

You can read more about it in the March 9th Historic Conservation Board packet, starting on Page 5. The initial design was single-story and was not approved in the January HCB meeting. The latest, approved design increased the height: "The proposed new building will be one story, but will read as a 2 ½ story volume, approximately 28’-6” tall and will have the potential for a mezzanine level."

 

: https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/march-9-2020-staff-report-and-attachments/

 

 

The Current Projects section on 3CDC's website still has a few projects listed that appear to be done (Columbia Flats, Court Street Condos, Rennen and Beecher Flats, possibly Elm Industries?) as well as some that are nearly done (Meiners, Behlen, Fourth and Race). The only "new" project on that list is Perseverance. Strangely, the Willkommen project is not listed. I wonder if we are about to experience a 6 or 12 month lull in development while everyone waits to see how fast the economy recovers.

Not sure about Cincy specifically, but I'm an in-house architect for a property management company and we have about 50 buildings across the country open with approximately 180 more in development.

 

We partner with developers to build the buildings to suit our needs. We saw about a month of everything grinding to a halt then everything picked straight back up. We're more busy now than we were 3 months ago. We can't keep up with the work. And it comes from all over. East Coast, West Coast, Midwest, the South, Canada, Europe, etc. Housing development seems to be continuing on mostly as usual.

Yeah - I can only speak from my limited personal experience... but I listed three apartments (two in OTR and one in CUF) in the last week and was absolutely inundated with applications. I'd estimate demand is double/triple what I saw last time I listed the apartments ~12 months ago. I chose not to raise rent at all, and certainly didn't expect this level of demand. Not sure if it's because there is pent up demand, or if supply hasn't caught up, or a bit of both. 

This is (obviously) pure speculation, but I wonder if all this zoom/work from home that's going on will naturally add to the importance of living in an "interesting" place. I mean, for those of us lucky to have avoided unemployment, home isn't just someplace to crash at the end of the day - it's your office, your restaurant, and your hotel. My wife and I are good with the setup, but I think I'd go insane to be single and living out in the suburbs during this mess.

13 hours ago, taestell said:

The Current Projects section on 3CDC's website still has a few projects listed that appear to be done (Columbia Flats, Court Street Condos, Rennen and Beecher Flats, possibly Elm Industries?) as well as some that are nearly done (Meiners, Behlen, Fourth and Race). The only "new" project on that list is Perseverance. Strangely, the Willkommen project is not listed. I wonder if we are about to experience a 6 or 12 month lull in development while everyone waits to see how fast the economy recovers.

I think 3CDC is just slow on updating their website. On 15th between Vine and Walnut, they have started renovating 3 empty buildings in the last month just on that block. The buildings have had inspectors in there and there are building permits posted on the temporary wooden doors. Also, construction workers' vehicles have been showing up on that block this week.

 

^ I'm not sure if Seelbach is talking about a new project or projects that have previously been announced.

 

Also, I'm incredibly disappointed in the replies to that tweet. It's a positive announcement and it's getting absolutely ripped apart by people (mostly far left people) who couldn't resist responding with their pet gripe about 3CDC, "gentrification", etc. Social media has become so completely toxic.

that thread is depressing

17 hours ago, jim uber said:

This is (obviously) pure speculation, but I wonder if all this zoom/work from home that's going on will naturally add to the importance of living in an "interesting" place. I mean, for those of us lucky to have avoided unemployment, home isn't just someplace to crash at the end of the day - it's your office, your restaurant, and your hotel. My wife and I are good with the setup, but I think I'd go insane to be single and living out in the suburbs during this mess.

 

I think it will, but I think it could also lead to less density. I know I wish I had a bit more room, and it's just two of us in a 1500 SF house. My "office" is the bedroom and my wife's "office" is the guest bedroom. It certainly helps that we look out at a nice garden and a panoramic skyline view, I think I'd be sad to look at a treeless suburban landscape.

 

But, if work from home ever became a permanent thing for either of us, I think we'd need/want a dedicated home office - ie, a larger house. Or I'd have to lose my model train room, but let's be real here.

Edited May 28, 20205 yr by Ram23

I can't argue with that logic - moving functions to home means more pressure on space at home. Maybe the sweet spot is converted high-rise office space where the old parking space perk is replaced by free access to well designed / efficient in-building flex office space. What society could gain from that is a lower carbon footprint and increased productivity. but I guess this is also off-topic...!

A few developments and a parking lot are going to the Historic Conservation Board next week. The meeting will be held via Zoom. Cincinnati Preservation Association posted the Zoom info on Facebook. Items listed in order of HCB Packets.


Items 1-3 [PDF Link]

1) 327 Perry Street - Downtown renovation.

 

2) 5901 Hamilton Avenue - College Hill renovation.

 

3) 2019 Elm Street - Renovation of former Christian Moerlein Office Building into residences with rooftop deck, rear deck, and garage off of the rear. Not a lot of exciting renderings or anything to share.

 

Items 4-6 [PDF Link]

4) 1208 Central Parkway - Conversion of existing building into office with rooftop decks. The building is immediately north of Queen City Radio.

Existing Conditions:

 

Proposed:

 

5) 1400 Block of Walnut - WDC LLC (Wade family) and Urban Sites. Expanding the existing parking lot along Walnut Street deeper into the lot. The application claims it will be used to further develop other properties owned by WDC LLC.

 

 

6) 1923 Elm Street - Demolish two historic additions in rear of property (two story additions from 1800's), renovate primary structure into 18-room boutique hotel. Proposed by Kingsley and Co.

Existing:

 

 

 

37 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

5) 1400 Block of Walnut - WDC LLC (Wade family) and Urban Sites. Expanding the existing parking lot along Walnut Street deeper into the lot. The application claims it will be used to further develop other properties owned by WDC LLC.

 

 

a.k.a. the site of the second phase of the proposed "Grammer's Place" development.

 

I guess 3CDC was not been successful in their attempts to buy that property and assemble a large site where a new mega-development can eventually be built.

 

Instead almost the entire block will be filled with two giant parking lots for the foreseeable future (red=Wade/UrbanSites, blue=3CDC):

 

^Gross 

3CDC, Model Group ready to launch $50M Over-the-Rhine mixed-use development

 

A complex set of financing tools with potentially once-in-a-lifetime funding sources from the state and federal governments will help Model Group and the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. develop a major scattered site housing project within Over-the-Rhine, with more than 40% of the units being affordable.

 

The $50 million Willkommen project will include the construction of 163 apartments, with 69 units affordable to those who make 50% to 80% of the area median incomes, over 16 historic buildings and four new ones. The remaining units will be rented at market rate. The price range includes units that people who work service jobs in the neighborhood will be able to afford, a rarity in a neighborhood that has housing for the very poor and those who are upper middle class to wealthy.

 

“Willkommen is a really big step. It goes a really long way toward revitalizing parts of the neighborhood that haven’t been done. It hasn’t been done this way before except on a very small scale,” said Bobby Maly, CEO of the Model Group.

 

UPDATE:   Cincinnati City Council unanimously approved the ordinances needed for the project Thursday in its budget committee, with final approval expected later in the day.

 

"Our mindset needs to be on how we can do this at scale," said Councilman P.G. Sittenfeld, adding that the city needed to look for ways to ensure the local real estate landscape can produce such projects even without Model and 3CDC's considerable expertise using the various tax credit programs.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/05/28/3cdc-model-group-launch-otr-redevelopment.html

 

I can't find anything on the other infill sites, particularly the one at Pleasant and Liberty. There are some renders on the GBBN site (showing 5-storey). Does anyone have insight on if that has been maintained as a 5-storey? 

8 hours ago, atlas said:

I can't find anything on the other infill sites, particularly the one at Pleasant and Liberty. There are some renders on the GBBN site (showing 5-storey). Does anyone have insight on if that has been maintained as a 5-storey? 

As far as I know, yes it will still be 5 floors. They haven’t really given any Updated renderings that I know of.

1 hour ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

As far as I know, yes it will still be 5 floors. They haven’t really given any Updated renderings that I know of.

 

9 hours ago, atlas said:

I can't find anything on the other infill sites, particularly the one at Pleasant and Liberty. There are some renders on the GBBN site (showing 5-storey). Does anyone have insight on if that has been maintained as a 5-storey? 

 

They better keep it 5-stories. It will really hold that corner and part of the street well:

 

3CDC's May 2020 update contains news on only two projects:

 

Quote

 

4TH & RACE

 

The structure at 4th & Race stands 11 stories tall, and workers are applying a stone-like finish to the exterior. Inside, mechanical, electrical, and plumbing work is largely complete up to level 6. The final interior stairwell doors have been installed, and exterior masonry work on Race and Elm streets has been finished for the parking garage levels. For additional details,  subscribe to regular project updates, and refer to the archive for past updates.

 

PERSEVERANCE

 

Crews continue to make progress at Perseverance. At 1505 Vine Street, crews are completing the rebar and finishing up pouring the foundation. Masons will start laying the first courses of masonry for the new build in the coming weeks. At 1511 Vine Street, electrical rough-ins are complete in the basement and on floors one through three. Meanwhile, HVAC rough-in is 90% complete and should be finished this week. Roofing is complete and crews will start hanging drywall in June. Plumbers are making their way through building at 1513-1515 Vine Street with rough-in completed on the basement through second floors. HVAC will move in this week. At 1517 Vine Street, crews have completed wall framing on the second and third floors. The roofing work is now complete.

 

 

The next few years are going to be really tough for Vine Street. Elm & Iron is closing one of their OTR locations leaving a pretty big space empty. I am also hearing that A Tavola is permanently closing their Vine Street location -- they opened another pizza place, Taglio, right around the corner that is better suited for carry-out.

^The article update says that all three of their OTR locations are closing. 

Oops--I read that article on Wednesday and didn't click through just now to see that they had updated it. Between their 2 OTR locations, that's a lot of retail space. It's going to take 3CDC some time to refill them.

1 hour ago, taestell said:

The next few years are going to be really tough for Vine Street. Elm & Iron is closing one of their OTR locations leaving a pretty big space empty. I am also hearing that A Tavola is permanently closing their Vine Street location -- they opened another pizza place, Taglio, right around the corner that is better suited for carry-out.

A Tavola closing vines street?  Seriously?  Perhaps this is a lease end situation? Or more because of Taglio being right around the corner?

I think we are going to see several restaurants close at the end of their current leases, but of course, the pandemic and the protests are a major factor. If business was going well, they would renew their lease. Taglio feels like a more casual, neighborhood-oriented place and has been takeout/delivery-focused since they opened. A Tavola was always more focused on dine-in which is going to be hurting for at least the next few months.

 

Elm & Iron's owner said, "I want to be very clear that it has nothing to do with OTR as far as what's going on there right now," and that actually makes sense. Their current configuration of having three separate locations in Cincinnati (2 storefronts + 1 warehouse) is inefficient, and consolidating into one larger space would be better.

 

Don't forget that Panino and Kaze closed before the pandemic, and I think there are also new retail spaces in Meiners/Behlen that haven't been filled. So unfortunately we're going to have some high vacancy on Vine Street in the near future.

11 minutes ago, taestell said:

I think we are going to see several restaurants close at the end of their current leases, but of course, the pandemic and the protests are a major factor. If business was going well, they would renew their lease. Taglio feels like a more casual, neighborhood-oriented place and has been takeout/delivery-focused since they opened. A Tavola was always more focused on dine-in which is going to be hurting for at least the next few months.

 

Elm & Iron's owner said, "I want to be very clear that it has nothing to do with OTR as far as what's going on there right now," and that actually makes sense. Their current configuration of having three separate locations in Cincinnati (2 storefronts + 1 warehouse) is inefficient, and consolidating into one larger space would be better.

 

Don't forget that Panino and Kaze closed before the pandemic, and I think there are also new retail spaces in Meiners/Behlen that haven't been filled. So unfortunately we're going to have some high vacancy on Vine Street in the near future.

I think all of this answers when we would see "peak-OTR". I thought it would happen sooner, as I don't believe we have the population growth in the metro to support a lot more dowtown/OTR development. 

Is that actually supported by anything though? OTR and Downtown, proportionally, are still much smaller as a portion of the region than similarly sized peer cities.

 

Additionally, the only studies of how much more demand there is that have officially been done show continued support and leasing and sales in general seem to still be doing fine.

 

The idea that there's a limit in a region of nearly 2.5 million people of OTR having only around 10,000 people seems misinformed to me, especially when comparing to all of Cincy's peer cities.

Agreed.  Pittsburgh, for example, has far larger NBDs that are full (I'd argue Carson Street has more retail/restaurants than adding up all the OTR streets combined) and is the same size as Cincinnati MSA.

It looks like Model Group has started renovating the Parkway Towers building on Central Parkway, just west of Findlay Market.

5 hours ago, jmicha said:

Is that actually supported by anything though? OTR and Downtown, proportionally, are still much smaller as a portion of the region than similarly sized peer cities.

 

Additionally, the only studies of how much more demand there is that have officially been done show continued support and leasing and sales in general seem to still be doing fine.

 

The idea that there's a limit in a region of nearly 2.5 million people of OTR having only around 10,000 people seems misinformed to me, especially when comparing to all of Cincy's peer cities.

I think the demand downtown and OTR is still pretty high. I work with a guy who lives  in Pendleton and he was looking at another apartment in the area and the landlord said that  he said 4 more showings of the apartment that day, could be lying but if not then that’s pretty good demand. 
 

I am sad to see Elm and Iron close the loft location for that it was an awesome building with great views (I hope they can find something in the downtown OTR area). It sucks to see Vine street losing some businesses but at the time when many of these places opened, Vine street and Main were the really the only “Business streets” in OTR. We are now seeing streets between these ones become developed with new shops as well as the Findlay Market area staring to take off with new restaurants and businesses. 

15 hours ago, ColDayMan said:

Agreed.  Pittsburgh, for example, has far larger NBDs that are full (I'd argue Carson Street has more retail/restaurants than adding up all the OTR streets combined) and is the same size as Cincinnati MSA.

Agreed, I moved to Pittsburgh a little while ago and its blown me away how much larger the business districts are. Even just for areas like East Liberty there really isnt anything comparable in cincinnati. 

14 hours ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

I think the demand downtown and OTR is still pretty high. I work with a guy who lives  in Pendleton and he was looking at another apartment in the area and the landlord said that  he said 4 more showings of the apartment that day, could be lying but if not then that’s pretty good demand. 

I just posted a nice 500 sq. ft. 1BR @ 15th and Elm for $800/month at 11:00 on Zillow and Craigslist, and by 11:18 I have three people requesting tours.

I have said the same thing in other threads, but I don't think the demand for urban living is going to be hurt in the long run. People that spend a lot of time or live downtown understand that protests and the occasional vandalism/crime happens. I think people understand, unless they're watching too much local TV news, that the vast majority of what's happening right now is very peaceful. Some suburbanites who are scared are going to decide to go out to eat at Summit Park or Liberty Center instead of coming downtown.

 

In the aftermath of Covid-19, more companies are going to allow employees to work from home, and it will be another 1-2 years before we start to see pre-pandemic levels of office workers downtown. Restaurants where office workers ate lunch and bars where people go out for happy hour are going to hurt and many will probably close. Some other restaurants will probably fail because they are making less money with fewer customers due to distancing rules and the decreased capacity that results from them.

 

But I don't think late 2019/early 2020 was "Peak OTR" at all. If anything this is an opportunity to rethink the neighborhood and make it more focused on the needs of residents.

14 hours ago, seaswan said:

Agreed, I moved to Pittsburgh a little while ago and its blown me away how much larger the business districts are. Even just for areas like East Liberty there really isnt anything comparable in cincinnati. 

 

Just for the sake of comparison, East Liberty would be their version of Peebles' Corner/Walnut Hills NBD.  Just on a much grander scale.  Much like Oakland would be their CUF, Shadyside their Hyde Park, Squirrel Hill their Mt. Lookout, Manchester their West End, Polish Hill their East Price Hill, Mt. Washington their Mt. Adams, and Southside Flats being OTR.

56 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

 

Just for the sake of comparison, East Liberty would be their version of Peebles' Corner/Walnut Hills NBD.  Just on a much grander scale.  Much like Oakland would be their CUF, Shadyside their Hyde Park, Squirrel Hill their Mt. Lookout, Manchester their West End, Polish Hill their East Price Hill, Mt. Washington their Mt. Adams, and Southside Flats being OTR.

 

The Oakland/East Liberty area is probably the densest not-downtown area of any American city that doesn't have rail transit.  But the other outer neighborhood business districts in Pittsburgh are pretty similar in scale to those in Cincinnati like Cheviot or Norwood or wherever. 

 

6 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

The Oakland/East Liberty area is probably the densest not-downtown area of any American city that doesn't have rail transit.  But the other outer neighborhood business districts in Pittsburgh are pretty similar in scale to those in Cincinnati like Cheviot or Norwood or wherever. 

 

Ever been to Century City? 5180/sq mi.

8 hours ago, ColDayMan said:

 

Just for the sake of comparison, East Liberty would be their version of Peebles' Corner/Walnut Hills NBD.  Just on a much grander scale.  Much like Oakland would be their CUF, Shadyside their Hyde Park, Squirrel Hill their Mt. Lookout, Manchester their West End, Polish Hill their East Price Hill, Mt. Washington their Mt. Adams, and Southside Flats being OTR.

I don’t think Pitt has anywhere similar to OTR in character at least. I was thinking Southside was more what DT Covington/Pike St could be if it were filled with sports bars and much more vibrancy/life. And Cincy also has Northside (perhaps Pitt’s Lawrenceville), Clifton, Oakley, Mainstrasse, Newport, Bellevue. I always thought Cincy’s are more abundant but mostly smaller in vibrancy and scale. But Cincy has OTR, which Is a vibe all it’s own. 

Edited June 7, 20205 yr by atlas

3 hours ago, atlas said:

I don’t think Pitt has anywhere similar to OTR in character at least. I was thinking Southside was more what DT Covington/Pike St could be if it were filled with sports bars and much more vibrancy/life. And Cincy also has Northside (perhaps Pitt’s Lawrenceville), Clifton, Oakley, Mainstrasse, Newport, Bellevue. I always thought Cincy’s are more abundant but mostly smaller in vibrancy and scale. But Cincy has OTR, which Is a vibe all it’s own. 

 

I agree with this. Pittsburgh seems to have fewer, but much denser/larger neighborhoods, whereas cincy has tons of smaller ones. 

4 hours ago, atlas said:

I don’t think Pitt has anywhere similar to OTR in character at least. I was thinking Southside was more what DT Covington/Pike St could be if it were filled with sports bars and much more vibrancy/life. And Cincy also has Northside (perhaps Pitt’s Lawrenceville), Clifton, Oakley, Mainstrasse, Newport, Bellevue. I always thought Cincy’s are more abundant but mostly smaller in vibrancy and scale. But Cincy has OTR, which Is a vibe all it’s own. 

 

While I agree OTR is quite unique, I meant the Southside comparison as simply an area of the city adjacent to downtown where yuppies had significantly taken over in the 90's and early 2000's with the same type of OTR businesses + yinzer bars (a bunch of Pony's).  Instead of poor black folk, they were Appalachian whites that were "gentrified" out.  Pittsburgh wiped out their actual OTR area (The Hill) years ago.

 

I do have to disagree with Pittsburgh having less/more abundant NBDs than Cincinnati.  Pittsburgh city has quite a bit outside of the ones I named like Regent Square, Allentown, Beechview, West End (a more "vibrant"/up-and-coming Lower Price Hill), Allegheny West, Deutschtown/E. Ohio, Troy Hill, The Strip District, Bloomfield, Garfield, Highland Park, Point Breeze (a denser Pleasant Ridge), Greenfield, Lower Lawrenceville (Upper Lawrenceville is like Northside; Lower is more like if Camp Washington were vibrant).  Certainly overall numerically and more vibrant than Cincinnati city's NBD's.  Let alone the endless NBDs of the small Norwood/Covington-type suburbs surrounding the city (Mt. Oliver, Dormont, Mt. Lebanon, McKees Rocks, Bellevue, Sharpsburg, Millvale, Homestead, Swissvale, etc).  

 

Pittsburgh has more NBDs due to geographic constraints that are significantly more difficult than Cincinnati's.  You can't just plop at Center of Cincinnati in Pittsburgh city limits.  East Liberty and Bakery Square may have the same stores as Rookwood Commons but it has to densify them due to space constraints.  If Cincinnati initially grew west into more rugged Price Hill instead of north towards Clifton or east towards Walnut Hills, then perhaps the local vernacular would've been similar to Pittsburgh's.  But who knows.

Ok I hear you squirrel friend, but I’m comparing urban Cincy to urban Pittsburgh. Cov and Newport are urban Cincy, not some distant Norwood type suburb. Amirite?!

Also, I’d say Cincy does have that vernacular, but again, just not quite as realized. Sedamsville and South Fairmount/Fairmount are the obvious ones, with the latter being fully realized but only to succumb to big infrastructure projects over the years. A stretch but you could say Columbia Tusc is a sort of gentrified/yuppie, less

dense version, but really C Tusc doesn’t really compare to anywhere in Pitt., bc well, Pitt be ugggly. 
 

In all seriousness, Pitt is one of my absolute favourite cities. I’d move there if I ever could in an instant. Only if ColdayMan changes his name to ColDayCinPitts and joins me. 

14 hours ago, 1400 Sycamore said:

Ever been to Century City? 5180/sq mi.

 

That's a postwar development on the site of the former 20th Century Fox lot.  The studio sold it off in part to recoup its massive losses from Cleopatra.  Plus, it's getting a subway station as we speak. 

3 hours ago, atlas said:

South Fairmount/Fairmount

 

Fairmount was a hardcore old-school neighborhood when I was a kid in the 1980s.  My mom had a friend who lived over there in one of the row houses and it was a really ugly house on the inside with the old glossy lead white landlord paint over the walls and trim and cheap linoleum floors.  It had a super-narrow staircase up to the second floor inside a closet door (i think they used to do that before central heating).  I remember the insides of houses in Northside and Fairview being like that too. 

 

In addition to the famous railroad trestle, the reversible lane on Queen City Ave. with the weird overhead lights was still there until the late 90s.  When they re-routed Queen City it took the last of the "Pittsburgh" out of the neighborhood. 

 

3 hours ago, atlas said:

Sedamsville

 

If River Road hadn't been rebuilt as a pseudo-expressway around 1960, Sedamsville would be a gem of the west side.  It was originally more urban than Columbia-Tusculum.