7 minutes ago, troeros said:

Couldn't (many years down the road) someone buy the building and reconfigure the single family home and turn into say a building with 2-3 apartments? I'm just wondering how easily you can reconfigure these single family homes into a few apartments way down the road?

 

Regardless, I always yearn for density on empty lots, but at the same time empty grassy lots look horrible in a urban environment, especially in a historic district. I'm glad, even though they uninspired faux buildings, they add some more, "teeth", to the urban fabric. 

 

 

 

Yea a building is better than a vacant lot for sure. And I assume they can convert them later. It happened in the past. 

11 minutes ago, troeros said:

Couldn't (many years down the road) someone buy the building and reconfigure the single family home and turn into say a building with 2-3 apartments? I'm just wondering how easily you can reconfigure these single family homes into a few apartments way down the road?

 

Regardless, I always yearn for density on empty lots, but at the same time empty grassy lots look horrible in a urban environment, especially in a historic district. I'm glad, even though they uninspired faux buildings, they add some more, "teeth", to the urban fabric. 

I agree. The issue isn't building duplex and triplexes, it's allowing the conversion of underutilized singles into duplexes and triplexes. A lot of former singles that had been converted into duplexes are being converted back into singles but will never be allowed to converted in the future.

Also, even if zoning specifically allowed construction of new multis, aren't the lot setbacks and minimums still too restrictive for them to actually fit on parcels?

Edited August 25, 20204 yr by Dev

The prevailing narrow width of Cincinnati's vacant lots and the lack of rear alleys precludes reconstruction of the 4 and 6-unit buildings that once stood on many of them.  We don't have a subway system and we don't have the guts to enact the strict parking registration that keeps things just under the total chaos threshold that exists in places like Boston.  What's more, it costs in excess of $100k per unit to build a small multifamily, meaning market rent needs to be at least $1,500 for a 1-bedroom, and anyone paying that much in the Midwest expects to own a car.  

 

I doubt that by 2030 we will see any new construction small multi-families in downtown or OTR, and even if 5 get built we've got...at most 30 new units.  Hooray.  

 

 

 

 

Talking about vacant land. What’s the deal with Freeport Row? Is it even still a thing?

6 minutes ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

Talking about vacant land.

 

Well the vacant lots in Walnut Hills certainly aren't flying off the shelves these days.  Several good lots have sat on the market for months - and not for sky-high OTR prices.  The fact is that everybody who likes to make easy money is making so much in the stock market right now that it's a big risk to take anything out and move it to the uncertainty of holding vacant lots or building spec homes.  

32 minutes ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

Talking about vacant land. What’s the deal with Freeport Row? Is it even still a thing?

 

I'm not sure where the project stands now, but last I heard, the project was being modified again to incorporate the former Boys & Girls Club site along Central Parkway into the project. Not sure if it's still being negotiated with OTRCC or if it's already been taken to HCB.

 

Also, I'm not sure what the mix of units looked like for that project, but it might be a good idea to tweak it to include more multi-bedroom or bedroom-plus-den units in order to accommodate people who want a home office. I don't think studio or small 1-bedroom units are in high demand right now.

I helped someone in Lawrenceburg do some code analysis and documentation to take a 2-family that was being converted into a single-family (at which point the owner died), and convert it back to a 2-family.  That's not easy, because even though it's the same building code, there's some fairly strict requirements for fire separation between units.  Ceilings near the demarcation walls required an additional layer of 5/8" type X drywall to meet the code.  Fortunately they had used 5/8" throughout already, so we were able to get the needed 1-hour rating on walls without additional layers.  They still had to replace electric boxes with 2-hour rated ones and add more drywall to the basement ceilings and fill voids with rated foam.  So if it's planned for from the start, it's fairly easy, but after the fact can be a ton of work, especially if the units go over/under each other. 

17 hours ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

Talking about vacant land. What’s the deal with Freeport Row? Is it even still a thing?

it's not called that any more. It's simply referred to as "Liberty & Elm". The City Planning Commission is having a public staff conference on September 9th to gather public input prior to a Planning Commission decision later on whether or not to expand the Planned Development to include the former Boys & Girls Club property. 

 

 

17 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

it's not called that any more. It's simply referred to as "Liberty & Elm". The City Planning Commission is having a public staff conference on September 9th to gather public input prior to a Planning Commission decision later on whether or not to expand the Planned Development to include the former Boys & Girls Club property. 

 

 

 

I'm assuming the design will change once more? I remember the previous rendering being quite hideous. 

On 1/28/2020 at 11:29 AM, ryanlammi said:

At the Over-the-Rhine Community Council meeting last night there was discussion of revamped efforts for Elm and Liberty.

 

A new developer is involved and the plan looks visually much better than the previous iteration. It's also much bigger. The developer got control of the Boys and Girls Club along Central Parkway, and they will be demolishing that for additional units. Basically the plan is:

 

• 3-story parking garage with ~230 spaces (1 fully underground, 1 fully above ground, 1 split)
• 5 Story structure at the corner and replacing the Boys and Girls Club. Still 11 feet shorter than the old proposal.
• ~280 units with a mix of studios, 1BR, 2BR, and some 3BR (didn't seem like a lot, but some).
• A commitment to some affordable housing. Exact mix of units, AMI requirements, and number of units still up in the air depending on available funds.
• Less retail than the old proposal - mostly focused around Elm street and the corner at Liberty.
• Better visually than the old one.
• Preserving Freeport Alley as a pedestrian access point with original bricks. The building will go over the alley, and artwork will be installed in the alley to make it a destination.
• The garage sounds like it will be wrapped by buildings.
• Buildings will step down along Elm Street to closer match the buildings on Elm.

I don't have any photos, but maybe others do. They aren't looking for a vote to support the project until they have the affordable units ironed out.

 

9 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

I'm assuming the design will change once more? I remember the previous rendering being quite hideous. 

Not sure what you mean by "previous rendering", but yes it has changed quite a bit over the years as the project has changed ownership and architects. Elevar is the lead architect now. @ryanlammi's summary (quoted above) is a good overview of the changes in the latest project proposal. 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/08/28/insomnia-cookies-coming-to-otr.html

 

Insomnia cookies is opening a second location along main street otr. 

 

I didn't know insomnia cookies was that popular to have both a clifton and an otr location...but I won't complain about any business that tries to open during a Pandemic

They will make a killing in that location late night on weekends. 

From the August 2020 update:

 

Quote

 

PERSEVERANCE

Each building included in the Perseverance project is progressing. Columns and masonry walls at 1505 Vine Street are in progress, while the new storefront is being installed at 1511 Vine Street. Insulation is going in at 1513-1515 Vine and electrical work is being completed at 1517 Vine, with drywall rounding out work at both of the latter sites. 

 

WILLKOMMEN

Willkommen closed on financing at the end of July, and construction immediately followed at almost all 20 sites. The existing buildings included in the project are receiving structural and masonry repairs, and the first locations to start new construction will be on Vine Street, with the sites on Republic to follow. Construction on the site at Woodward Avenue will begin once the season ends at Ziegler Pool.

 

 

I walked by there this morning and should have gotten a photo. All the existing buildings have been painted. Perserverance is out of the ground with the first floor poured. Willkommen Vine infill site is graded.

Perseverance has some HEFTY columns. 

A 209' stretch of retaining wall was re-built along Peete St over the last year or so. The RFP for the project states that property owners would be assessed for the cost, but the City would cover at least 1/50th of the cost. Does anybody know how much it ended up costing, and how much the City ended up paying?  https://data.cincinnati-oh.gov/views/b397-t996/files/3574a297-cd07-41e7-9368-7d9922357cfd?filename=RFP624ENGPEETE.pdf&content_type=application%2Fpdf%3B charset%3Dbinary
 

Quote

3. Assess benefitted (sic) property owners for the cost of the wall over a period of not less than 30 years;

4. The City will assume not less than 1/50th of the cost of the wall as required by law;

 

...

 

The Property Owners entered into conversations with the City with respect to the ownership and the repair/maintenance responsibility for the walls. The City studied the history of the walls and concluded that, although some of the walls, or portions of the walls encroach into the City rightof-way, the walls were constructed by the individual property owners in the late 1800’s as the Mulberry Street houses were being built. The City Law Department and the Department of Transportation and Engineering (“DOTE”) have determined that regardless of the encroachments, the maintenance responsibility for these private retaining walls remains with the Property Owner.

 

 

1706 Lang is getting new windows and presumably a full renovation. The new owner (as of late 2019) is an LLC registered to 3074 Madison Rd: https://wedge.hcauditor.org/view/re/0940007035400/2019/summary

 

This is a building whose front facade was completely rebuilt (structural CMUs with 1 layer of bricks on the exterior) in the spring/summer of 2015: https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2015/03/16/lang-street-building-faces-demolition/24864273/

 

Photos from 9/3:

 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 20204 yr by jwulsin

These new banners have recently gone up around OTR. Hopefully they will be better maintained than the ones in the CBD, most of which still have the "I <Emoji> Cincinnati" banners that were installed 5+ years ago and are now extremely faded.

Well look at what's coming to Planning Commission for its PD revision. Finally!

 

https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/planning/assets/File/Liberty %26 Elm Major Amendment.pdf

33 minutes ago, JYP said:

Well look at what's coming to Planning Commission for its PD revision. Finally!

 

It's just something else for Margie Waller to complain about.  

Not a fan of the material for the corner lighter gray building, but otherwise a considerable improvement.  This would be a great addition to the neighborhood.

I like the building on the corner of Liberty of Elm but the new 7 story building facing central is not working for me. Changing materials just to "break up the facade" only works at a smaller scale, if at all but the yellow brick does recognize it's neighboring buildings. Balconies make buildings and the streetscape feel more alive and interesting, and the brick makes it seem like the black portion of the building was an addition to something that came before it. This is my 1 minute design revision that no one asked for: 

One unsafe street crossing for man...one giant leap across Liberty for Cincinnati-kind.

I didn't have to many qualms about the previous design but this does indeed look wayyyyyy better. 

 

When is this expected to break ground? I feel like this has been 4, going on 5 years in the making lol 

That rendering really loves hatchbacks and crossovers.  

well, it hasn't been that long for the current owners. The planning commission packet linked to above by @JYP indicates start of construction before end of 2020 -- assuming they get approved, of course. And keep in mind that above the architectural changes to the liberty & elm parcel, the major difference here is the more than doubling of the project size, in terms of number of units, by the addition of adjacent land to the planned development. So one way to make sense of the recent delays is that basically they've gone through planning of an entirely new development, to be added to the original.

Edited September 24, 20204 yr by jim uber

This would be such a game changer for north of Liberty.  At this point I don't care what it looks like, just get the construction started. 

I'm not sure what the commercial square ft for that corner building is but I feel like it could be a good spot for a small layout organic grocery store. 

 

Crossing my fingers that the eventual commercial spaces are filled up with something more than just your typical trendy otr bar/Resturaunt. 

Very unlikely that we are going to get a grocery store at this location now that we have a flagship Kroger downtown, plus Findlay Market is 1 block away. The failure of Epicurean Mercantile Co. shows that there just isn't a market for that type of specialty high end grocery store that isn't met by the existing options.

Epicurean didn't look open and it was unclear that it was a grocery store.  In NYC they line the sidewalk with a bunch of fruit and vegetables and flowers.  That announces to all & sundry that it's a grocery store.  Epicurean was an epic flop.  

^People think they don't need that kind of stuff because the internet exists.

Some photos from this morning taken around Findlay Market. 

 

111 W Elder:

 

107 W Elder:

 

1707 Pleasant:

 

 

Some exploratory demo on 3CDC-owned 1801 Vine revealing the original brick under the fake stone siding:

 

26 W 15th St:

 

Is that siding going up or coming down? I'd hope it's the latter.

9 minutes ago, BigDipper 80 said:

Is that siding going up or coming down? I'd hope it's the latter.

Going up. It's a renovation. Previously the building had alumimum siding over wood clapboard.

 

Edited September 24, 20204 yr by jwulsin

New Over-the-Rhine infill guidelines shelved by Cincinnati Planning Commission

 

New guidelines for infill buildings in Over-the-Rhine may face a major stalemate after six years of work by the Over-the-Rhine Foundation and other stakeholders

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/09/24/new-otr-infill-guidelines-shelved.html

 

New rendering for Liberty and Elm, including a second building for Logan St. 

35 minutes ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

New rendering for Liberty and Elm, including a second building for Logan St. 

 

How many apartment units is this supposedly going to bring?

 

I really love seeing this type of density, especially right on the street car line. 

 

This development could be a massive Kickstarter for North of Liberty development.

32 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

How many apartment units is this supposedly going to bring?

 

I really love seeing this type of density, especially right on the street car line. 

 

This development could be a massive Kickstarter for North of Liberty development.

I think the building facing Central parkway looks awesome. I like the new design much better than the old one. 

The "5,000-15,000 square feet" of commercial space is interesting. I guess they are still trying to determine how much of the first floor will be retail and how much will be community amenity space. I wouldn't be surprised if we start to see more apartment buildings that use more of the first floor space for residents, like Eighth & Main which has no ground floor retail.

The document linked on Wed. states that the Central Parkway building is to be 7 stories, but the rendering shows 6.

Fifth Third, NEF close $25 million opportunity zones fund, invest in 3CDC and Model Group’s Willkommen project

 

Fifth Third Bank and National Equity Fund Inc. have closed on $25 million in opportunity zones investment to support development of about 300 rental homes for low- and moderate-income families, as well as commercial space, in three cities including Cincinnati.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/09/25/fifth-third-nef-opportunity-zones-fund-invests-in.html

 

6 minutes ago, zsnyder said:

The document linked on Wed. states that the Central Parkway building is to be 7 stories, but the rendering shows 6.

I think that's just due to the slight topography change from Central Parkway to Logan St. If you look at the Film Center project, it looks like 4 stories from Central Parkway but 5 from Logan.

 

Central Parkway:

 

Logan St:

thanks for the clarification. 

57 minutes ago, taestell said:

The "5,000-15,000 square feet" of commercial space is interesting. I guess they are still trying to determine how much of the first floor will be retail and how much will be community amenity space. I wouldn't be surprised if we start to see more apartment buildings that use more of the first floor space for residents, like Eighth & Main which has no ground floor retail.

I think it's warranted for Eighth and Main because of the relatively small size of the units. It gives the residents some additional room to utilize if they want.

 

I could see them leasing 15,000 sqft of commercial space, and then converting some of it to amenities if they have trouble leasing it. But I don't know how much certainty a bank would need before lending to this.

6 hours ago, taestell said:

The "5,000-15,000 square feet" of commercial space is interesting. I guess they are still trying to determine how much of the first floor will be retail and how much will be community amenity space. I wouldn't be surprised if we start to see more apartment buildings that use more of the first floor space for residents, like Eighth & Main which has no ground floor retail.

 

that flexibility to me makes sense - back when OTR had retail on the ground floor of almost every building, they were also packing 6 people or more into 3 room flats. I think I remember @jmecklenborg saying years ago that we'd never approach OTR's old population density because no one wants to live like that anymore.  Plus of course more commerce is done online et cetera.

First floor retail is a mixed bag. UWS residents will swear by the charm of a great deli, bodega or pub on the ground floor. But anyone who has lived above a bar or restaurant knows that not every smell from below is apple pie and not every crowd are hail fellows well met. Charming little shops barely exist anymore and there are only so many consultancies that require walk in retail space. Hence the residential units on floor 1.

 

On the other hand, there are few buildings with setbacks in OTR and who wants a daily parade of hundreds of strangers literally 3 feet from one's bed or breakfast table separated only by a window, some blinds or maybe some shutters? Properties with the little iron fence and the 10 foot setback are workable, but the buildings once containing floor 1 retail are a hard problem to solve.

Edited September 27, 20204 yr by 1400 Sycamore
spelling

4 hours ago, 1400 Sycamore said:

On the other hand, there are few buildings with setbacks in OTR and who wants a daily parade of hundreds of strangers literally 3 feet from one's bed or breakfast table separated only by a window, some blinds or maybe some shutters? Properties with the little iron fence and the 10 foot setback are workable, but the buildings once containing floor 1 retail are a hard problem to solve.

Yes, the two buildings next to me both converted the storefronts to residential. They kept the original storefront architecture, presumably cause it would have been impossible to not do so, and get through the HCB process. But they replaced the large glass panes with that wavy glass, and it's just weird to walk on the sidewalk feet away from huge wavy glass panes backed by curtains, with the occasional peek at a corner of someones bedside table.

 

I know that the future of office space in general is murky right now, but OTR storefronts are usually modest-sized spaces, with huge ceiling height and tons of natural light, at least in the front half. Combined with a walkable neighborhood, they make great small office spaces - you just have to build the costs of parking into the equation.