April 27, 200718 yr The wikipedia entry for "gentrification" has a special section on OTR: -------------- Over the Rhine, Cincinnati Over the Rhine, a community north of Downtown Cincinnati, Ohio, is experiencing another phase of gentrification. Cincinnati has a strong German heritage, and, like Darlen Street in Philadelphia, its homes and businesses show a strong European influence. In the 1800s, only German families populated the area (“Over-the-Rhine”). In the following few decades, however, most of those German families became financially able to move to northern Cincinnati and the surrounding suburbs, so they did. Working class people from southeastern areas of the United States began to migrate to Cincinnati, where there were industrial jobs available. By the early 1900s, the working class, which mostly consisted of African Americans, were the majority population in Over the Rhine (“Over-the-Rhine”). Throughout the century, the population declined from over 40,000 in 1900 to fewer than 8,000 people in 2000 (“Over-the-Rhine”). In 2001, there were outbursts of racial cries, known as the “Cincinnati Race Riots” after a young African American was shot by a city policeman. The riots destroyed many homes, businesses, and families, and completely halted redevelopment in the already deteriorating area. It took five years for gentrification to take its second swing around Over the Rhine. In early 2006, much to the surprise of Cincinnati residents, a 130-year-old building had began its renovation into six condominiums (Maag). Construction and development companies saw opportunity when almost half of Over the Rhine’s houses were vacant. One Cincinnati developer, Bill Baum, said the construction noise is “music to his ears” in an article in the New York Times in November (Maag). Baum thought nothing would ever happen in Over the Rhine, at least during his lifetime (Maag). The new condominiums are located on Vine Street, which runs through the middle of Over the Rhine (and was in the center of the riots years earlier). Over the Rhine has many desired qualities: it is located just five minutes from downtown, it has some specialty shopping and restaurants, and its houses’ structures are beautiful (“Over-the-Rhine”). Still, Over the Rhine is a dangerous place to live. Developers are hoping that their renovations will cause crime rates in Over the Rhine to subside. In 1990, the median income of the residents was $5,000 (Maag). Now, in 2006, renovated condominiums are selling for over $100,000 and most apartments are over $1,000 a month in rent (“Over-the-Rhine Directory”). Many hope that the developments will help the community's economy grow. ---------------- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentrification#Over_the_Rhine.2C_Cincinnati This entry is rife with inaccuracies and oversimplifications. I don't have the time or energy to fix it. Will someone please edit it??
April 28, 200718 yr Interestingly 3CDC has concentrated in the area that was traditionally buddy gray's area of concentration. I'm not saying they consciously decided to pick a fight with Restoc, it may have been that the west side of OTR was worse off because there were few if any of the small developers operating over on this side, and it finally got to the desperation point after 2001. Yeah, Gray was based in that Washington Park area...I recall reading there was an earlier plan to gentrify the Washington Park area, back in the 1970s or early 80s(?), but that it was thwarted by Gray and maybe other activists in the area. It is in that planning history of OTR...I forge the name of the book.
April 28, 200718 yr Changing Plans for America's Inner Cities: Cincinnati's Over-the-Rhine and Twentieth Century Urbanism by Zane L. Miller
April 28, 200718 yr Out of curiosity I did a search for images of our buddy Buddy Gray and look what popped up: I never understood why the heck Buddy and his posse insisted on OTR as the site for their activities...why not take it over a few blocks to the West End, up to Brighton, Camp Washington, South Fairmount, Lower Price Hill, etc.
April 28, 200718 yr Some say that he positioned the Drop Inn Center between City Hall and Music Hall so that he could be right in the face of the city leadership.
April 28, 200718 yr That part of the entry should simply be deleted. It brings nothing to the table. I agree that whole paragraph is mumbo jumbo and should be eliminated.
April 28, 200718 yr Changing Plans for America's Inner Cities: Cincinnati's Over-the-Rhine and Twentieth Century Urbanism by Zane L. Miller I wholeheartedly second this.
May 2, 200718 yr Awesome News!!! I love this building! Council to Loan Money to Developer Posted By: Tasha Thomas Cincinnati's City Council has agreed to pump $450,000 into a 144-year-old building. The Kaufman Building on Vine Street is one of the largest structures in Over-the Rhine, but is condemned and needs a lot of work. Vice Mayor Jim Tarbell has been pushing to bring the building back to life. Now city council has voted to give a six figure loan to developers for a revamp project.
May 17, 200718 yr I got an extensive tour of all of the 3CDC condo conversions on Vine and Republic streets today and WOW. These units are amazing and the views from the rooftop decks in some are absolutely breathtaking. I asked about the buildings that 3cdc has in other sections of OTR and if they plan to demolish any and he said with the huge success of retail and residential in the older buildings, that they do not plan to demolish any but rather just rennovate and build on the vacant lots. The man said this would be done after the lower Vine area has a chance to get going. I also had the chance to talk to the OTR chamber president and meet with the owners of the green store. The store is incredibly cool and definitely should be checked out. He also said an urban gardening store, "Urban Roots" will be opening a few store fronts down from the green store. Finally, the squatty 1 story building in the picture http://www.3cdc.org/otr/vinecondos, is the space that Jean Robert is going to use for his restaurant. The roof is kind of 2 levels in that its one level in the front of the building and then a wall, and another level about 8 feet up. He plans to use the whole roof as his out door seating for the restaurant. Sorry I couldnt find a better picture.
May 18, 200718 yr ^I'd bet the smoking ban led to the decision to build the roof patio. We're going to see an explosion of outdoor patio construction in bars and restaurants all around the state this year.
May 18, 200718 yr Author I drove down Vine St. from Clifton the other day for the first time in a long time and wow! The momentum is definitely moving north along Vine. I don't know if they are all 3CDC or not, but change is afoot!
May 18, 200718 yr ^I'd bet the smoking ban led to the decision to build the roof patio. We're going to see an explosion of outdoor patio construction in bars and restaurants all around the state this year. That is a fantastic bonus of the smoking ban that passed!!! You can notice a difference in street activity outside of bars & restaurants. Very nice! BTW, thanks for the updates edale!!! "Urban Roots" sounds fantastic, can't wait to see it happen.
May 18, 200718 yr Oh, also I forgot to mention that the man from 3cdc said that they are absolutely rejecting all chains from signing leases in the lower Vine area. Very encouraging news to me!
May 18, 200718 yr I heard that 3cdc has plans to rehab 100 units a year for the next seven years in that area going up vine, elm and race up to liberty
May 18, 200718 yr Oh, also I forgot to mention that the man from 3cdc said that they are absolutely rejecting all chains from signing leases in the lower Vine area. Very encouraging news to me! See, I disagree. I believe that some people need the familiarity of a chain to visit or live in an area. I mix of both I think would be good. I think if a Starbucks came to the area, regardless of your opinion of the company, the area will then have "made" it. The marketing department of Starbucks does extensive research to determine whether their stores would be appropriate in an up and coming area. If they bought into the OTR redevelopment idea, I see it being a positive thing.
May 18, 200718 yr ^I agree...a majority of local stores is obviously desired, but a chain here or there would be nice to see as well. There is plenty of space for both the local stores and chains to coexist.
May 18, 200718 yr ^I agree...a majority of local stores is obviously desired, but a chain here or there would be nice to see as well. There is plenty of space for both the local stores and chains to coexist. I agree as well. I don't want all chains, but I don't think a few would hurt. It seems that more chains are willing to take a risk with evening hours downtown. That said, I do prefer local restaurants, but maybe having chain restaurants succeed with later hours would encourage local places to stay open later as well.
May 18, 200718 yr If someone needs the presence of a chain in order for them to venture into a neighborhood, then they should go to Florence or somewhere else. But they should stay out of OTR! :shoot: I applaud 3CDC's effort to keep the chains out, because the neighborhood is a unique place in the nation. We have to remember that this is our Greenwhich Village, and we have to keep it that way. If chains ever do move into the neighborhood, hopefully they'll be the first to burn down during the next riot! :wink:
May 18, 200718 yr I went in Park + Vine as well. It's gonna be incredible. I've already picked out something to get as soon as they open June 1. They're going for LEED certification as well, which is nice, and have requested a bike rack for the sidewalk in front of the store. Very cool.
May 19, 200718 yr i went to park and vine today as well (actually true, not hubris), looks like cramer isn't the only one that is so special. They had t-shirts, shampoo and izze beverages. it looks awsome. you can pay a quarter for carbon offsets if you drove, or if you took the bus you can be awsome and not pay that quarter.
May 19, 200718 yr chains are a good idea to help build presence for parts of OTR. I like unique shops and I also welcome soe retail familiarity, thois would align with the majority of cats out there.
May 21, 200718 yr IMO, some mix of chains and local flavor is needed. According to a developer who is constructing a large urban project here in Lexington, some residents are reluctant to relocate if they feel that they are too far from the "chains" they were familiar with in the suburbs. Not to say that the entire retail development should be exclusively chains, but a mix would be nice. Anything to help them move back is a bonus!
May 21, 200718 yr Hello, I am new to this message board. I am a recent college graduate and have lived in Cincinnati for almost my entire life. I am interested in real estate and development. I am glad to have found this forum!!!! I am particularly very interested in OTR. I am currently looking at a few condos in the area, notably the gateway quarter development. I have been doing a good deal of research and I would like your thoughts on some of my findings. If this is inappropriate material for the forum, please disregard. I just though that this would make for some interesting conversation. My concerns: 1. Main Street - Once the crown jewel of OTR development, the bar district is dead. I was in a band that played a concert at RBC's just two years ago. The area seemed pretty vibrant. I was shocked to see that the entire street is vacant. Why is the street vacant? I visited the two remaining bars on the street and talked to the people there. The time of day was around 7:00 PM and the bars were empty. I heard rumors that new bars were being planned in the area, but nothing concrete. I found it odd that some people who were involved with these businesses advised me not to invest in the area. They were concerned about crime :shoot: , risk, etc... 2. Section 8 Housing - I have done a lot of research and there are still a TON of section 8 voucher housing still in the area. I have found numerous examples of this housing available to recent construction/revitalization. Will this trend continue? I went to the old Restoc office to ask for some details about the recent deal between them and 3CDC. Does anyone know the ratio of ownership to section 8 in the revitalization effort? 3. Public Perception - The project does seem to have some momentum behind it, but I fear that it will run out of gas. The mass of people living in the Cincinnati metro shake their heads in disbelief when I tell them that this is my favorite Cincinnati Neighborhood. Recent articles that have been written are helping. I agree with the assessment that a chain store would help to change the publics perception. There really are some good things happening on Vine street, but it is difficult to even get Cincinnatians to look at it objectively. 4. History - The history of city planning in OTR is pathetic. Within the last decade, the city has been very fickle with development plans. There was a development plan that was replaced with another development plan that was replaced by the current 3CDC development plan. In the past, the city has used almost no foresight in sculpting the neighborhood. An example The city allowed a school to be built in Washington Park, directly across from Music Hall (a building all Cincinnatians should be proud of). Many people are skeptical that the new SCPA will be built next to Washington park. Are plans going ahead? If anyone who may be more familiar with the area can speak to some of these concerns, I would much appreciate it. I would very much like to move to the area and help be a part of the change. I do not want to make a stupid investment. Thanks!! :-D
May 21, 200718 yr Pope, first of all welcome to the Urban Ohio forum. It's great to hear someone who is interested in investing within the city. Most of the forumers here are very optimistic about the future of Cincinnati. I will attempt to address some of your questions, and others can augment my statements: 1. Main Street is about to take off again. It will be more of an upscale arts area rather than a bar scene. Many people view this as a positive development. Look for Neon's to reopen as the Jardin Wine and Tapas bar, which will include an outdoor garden for alfresco dining. The same owners, who also own Vinyl, are planning to open a sushi place called Mixx Ultralounge, in the Jump Cafe space. In addition, look for the Below Zero Lounge to open in the Alchemize building at 12th and Walnut. This area is very stable, and crime is down throughout Over-the-Rhine. Part 2 crimes such as car theft are down a whopping 80%. 2. 3CDC now owns dozens of properties in the Race Street corridor. They plan to bring a modest amount of market rate condos onto the market each year as they move northward. Findlay Market is attempting to attract developers to renovate the properties in the area around the market. And the biggest development may come from the new streetcar system, if it is implemented as envisioned. This could tip the balance towards market rate properties in the future. 4. The new SCPA will be built, and Washington Park will be reconfigured when Washington Park Elementary is removed. Erich Kunzel has told me personally that the new SCPA will happen. If you decide to invest in the neighborhood, I think that your investment will pay off bigtime. The corporate elite and the public sector have joined together to make this happen. 3CDC is doing some really tremendous things!
May 21, 200718 yr Just as a way to introduce yourself to the forum...there are some very interesting discussion threads about some of the same topics you brought up: Main Street Discussion Thread Washington Park/3CDC Discussion Thread Is Over-the-Rhine as bad as they say? Cincinnati Streetcar Discussion Thread
May 22, 200718 yr Hi pope, welcome to UrbanOhio! My wife and I have lived on Main St. in OTR for 2 years and 10 months. OTR is a great place to live, although it could definitely have more in the way of neighborhood amenities such as retail and service businesses. It is beautiful, full of interesting people, has excellent housing options, and is conveniently located to downtown and within the region. Living in OTR, you will feel the pulse of the city on almost every front - arts, development, race relations, etc. You really feel relevant down here. From a development standpoint, there is more momentum now than there has been since I became familiar with OTR in 2003. Finalizing a streetcar line will blow the lid off. Some of the Main St. bars will be reincarnated in the near future, though I think the broader nightlife scene is shifting down to the CBD, where it belongs. Main St. north of 13th is predominantly a residential community with a strong arts component. There is a viable mix of market rate (owner-occupied and rental) and subsidized housing on Main St. and the side streets (13th, Woodward, Orchard). The market rate redevelopment is spreading on Main north of Liberty. I think public perception is starting to improve. There has been a lot of positive press lately. OTR is safer and better-looking than it has been in years and eventually the perception will catch up. There has been every indication that the new SCPA is happening. The school's current principal told me that construction should begin in the next few months. My wife and I will be moving to Walnut Hills in a few months. The move is going to be bittersweet. We are very accustomed to the convenience, affordability, and excitement that comes with living in OTR. We have also been a one-car family for over two years and the move will threaten the viability of that arrangement. But we are now want (and can afford) more space and after looking at virtually every 2-3 bed, 2 bath property within 2 miles of downtown (on the Ohio side) and the right match happened to be in Walnut Hills.
May 23, 200718 yr Thank you guys for the intelligent responses. I appreciate the input. I am working my way through the forum and am learning details of many projects that I have never heard of. I think I will change my handle here since there is already a pope, but it is safe to say that I am here to stay. Now if we could only upgrade the server to make the site run faster... :whip:
May 25, 200718 yr Thank you guys for the intelligent responses. I appreciate the input. I am working my way through the forum and am learning details of many projects that I have never heard of. I think I will change my handle here since there is already a pope, but it is safe to say that I am here to stay. Now if we could only upgrade the server to make the site run faster... :whip: i hate you already.
May 31, 200718 yr Urban businesses join OTR's Gateway Quarter May 30, 2007 | CINCINNATI BUSINESS COURIER CINCINNATI - Three new retailers specializing in products for city-dwellers are setting up shop in Over-the-Rhine's Gateway Quarter residential development.
May 31, 200718 yr Here is a rundown of the retail space in the Gateway Quarter. The locations colored red are those that have NOT been sold/leased yet. Source: http://www.gatewayquarter.com/Retail.html The Gateway Arts Building 1133 Vine Street LEASED—City Roots, Custimized Urban Gardening Opening June 3rd 1135 Vine Street 1,050 sq. feet 13 West 12th Street 668 sq. feet Bremen Lofts Building 13 West 12th Street 668 sq. feet Duncanson Lofts Buildings 1201 Vine Street: A LEASED—Watch for the announcement 1201 Vine Street: B LEASED—Watch for the announcement 1203 Vine Street: A LEASED—Watch for the announcement 1205 Vine Street: A 1,020 sq. feet 1207 Vine Street: A LEASED—Watch for the announcement 1207 Vine Street: B LEASED—Watch for the announcement 1211 Vine Street: A SOLD—Watch for Jean Robert's New restaurant Opening Fall 2007 1213 Vine Street: A LEASED—Metronation-Metronation.com Opening June 3rd 1213 Vine Street: B LEASED—Metronation-Metronation.com Opening June 3rd 1215 Vine Street LEASED—Metronation-Metronation.com Opening June 3rd
June 1, 200718 yr My significant other visited Park + Vine today and reported that it was a bit pricey for us. Also said she saw JeanRo scoping out his space. I'll be touring this weekend and will report back with photos. OTR's Vine Street Poised For Rebirth http://www.wlwt.com/news/13419037/detail.html# If you haven't rolled down Race Street or Vine Street in a while, they have gone through remarkable changes within the past year. Development group 3CDC is in the midst of an enormous, community-wide renovation project that is beginning to bear fruit.
June 4, 200718 yr Over-the-Rhine: Metaphor Flats Building Cincinnati, 5/31/07 Interior rendering from Urban Sites website Urban Sites has begun building Metaphor Flats, a new office project at 532 Reading Road. The converted warehouse will feature open spaces, large windows and hardwood floors. Each floor will contain 3,000-4,000 square feet of space and rent for $10.00-$12.50 per square foot. The sale of the 16,557 square foot building, built in the 1880s, was finalized in April 2007. Soon after, building permits for interior renovation of the space and for plumbing fixtures were applied for and issued. The current building permit is limited to interior work only. There is no word on the exteriors. An opening date has not been set. Urban Sites has done several projects in the area, including the Lofts on Broadway and the Light & Manor Houses. Urban Sites project page 532 Reading Road WINDOWS LIVE BIRD'S EYE VIEW GOOGLE AERIAL MAP http://buildingcincinnati.blogspot.com/2007/05/over-rhine-urban-sites-starting.html
June 5, 200718 yr Author Cool, great news! FYI, I did a map and this property sits on the elbow of Reading Road, between Pendleton and 12th Sts., just north of Broadway Commons (sadly though, all these buildings would already be rehabbed and occupied if the ballpark was buit there).
June 5, 200718 yr There are a whole slew of buildings in that immediate area that could be very cool if cleaned up. I'm am excited that they are going to work on this one...it's one of the larger buildings of the bunch...and adds some commercial space to that area. Very nice!
June 5, 200718 yr As an idea, do you ever think they would tear down that monstrosity on the river that is USBank Arena and build Cincy a new arena in Broadway commons? Such a project could solve 2 goals of reviving that specific area as well clearing a little bit of the stadim/arena clutter along the river. Think about it.
June 5, 200718 yr ^ That's a great idea. USBank arena is just out of place there. I think a marina somewhere around there would be more ideal.
June 5, 200718 yr As an idea, do you ever think they would tear down that monstrosity on the river that is USBank Arena and build Cincy a new arena in Broadway commons? Such a project could solve 2 goals of reviving that specific area as well clearing a little bit of the stadim/arena clutter along the river. Think about it. Keep the sports crap on the river. the area is better handled for parking and big events. I used to live next to PBS for 2 years and it absolutley sucked on gamedays. No parking, area was trashed with litter and urine, people yelling WHO DEY at 5 am etc.
June 5, 200718 yr Max: the litter/noise things is unique w/ football/drinking/tailgating. Even if Cincy had a pro hoops team that had 41 home games, you would not get that type of disturbance at such an event. Given the type of events US Bank arena holds now, I don't think there would be too much of a nuisance to the area. I think it would help the area as far as a development quite a bit and it be a great addition to the massive parking eyesore.
June 5, 200718 yr ^baseball has 81 home games and with the exeception of the fireworks doesnt' seem to disturb the nearby reseidents nearly as much.
June 5, 200718 yr We need end this discussion about USBank Arena before we give some county official/UO reader an idea and are all paying 8 or 9 cent sales tax next week on something we don't even have a say in! :wtf:
June 5, 200718 yr I would pay an 8% sales tax if we buy the sacremento kings and build them an arena on Broadway commons.
June 5, 200718 yr The return of the Cincinnati Royals! However great this sounds, it's probably not going to happen for a lot of reasons. Chief among them is the fact that the U.S. Bank Arena was renovated in 1997, and will continue to be used for a variety of events. We do need a new world class arena, but it is not a priority right now. What I would love to see on Broadway Commons is a vast greenspace which would extend down the center of Central Parkway in a similar fashion to Piatt Park.
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